I don?t understand why some users prefer laptops. Where do they use them? Driving to work? At Starbucks? Sitting in the park? Bouncing around on a commuter train? Do they take them on trips or on vacation?
Good question with a good answer. Yes, a lot of people use them for that kind of stuff. Remember that there's a LOT of business travelers that need to do work while on the road or plane. They use them for that.
A lot of times people like to work away from home. Some feel it helps them focus on work more instead of watching TV, cleaning, being bothered by the kids, etc. If you can take your computer to the coffee house with you, you can get stuff done without distraction.
As someone in the academic environment, you might appreciate this next one. When I was a college student, my laptop proved invaluable for doing group assignments. I'd bring it to the library where we'd check out a conference room, sit around and develop our project. I did that a number of times.
One thing to remember in all of this is that a lot of times you don't want to (or can't) rely on someone else's computer to show your work correctly. I don't know how many times I've seen Powerpoint on one computer show a slide differently than the same version of Powerpoint on another computer. If you present your work from YOUR machine, you know you're in good shape.
The point that was made about the mid-Macs seems to keep coming up. And I think I just figured out why vinea keeps poo-pooing the concept.
I poo-poo the concept because Apple has thus far not released a mid-tower mac. This isn't a hard one to grasp.
So far what I've consistently said on the subject is:
A lower cost tower around $1499-$1699 is likely.
A lower cost tower is likely a single processor Mac Pro. Xeon and not Conroe.
A mid-tower is not likely based on my perception of Apple's mobile centric strategy and current line up.
A mid-tower is not likely based on the fact that there are no 28% margin mid-towers on the market and an Apple mid-tower would be directly compared against a Dell mid-tower and would lose horribly.
Quote:
He's seems like a laptop guy. Many laptop folks have a hard time undersatnding why any waste their money on anything that is not a laptop. I reserve the right to be wrong though...
Yes, it is easier to try to categorize your opponent as someone who cannot understand your position rather than actually refute their arguments.
Quote:
I personally went with a refurb MacPro, for the very reason that there was not a xMac between an iMac, MacPro. I sure as hell didn't want a MB or MBP. I don't care how much you folks swear by them. :^)
Bully for you.
Quote:
I bought a Mac not because of some elitist ideal that Mac is the name brand to be spoken in the same breath as Mercedes and Coach. It is a superior OS no question. But I just don't see the value in forcing folks to buy overpriced hardware just for the opportunity of letting them use your OS.
All other things being equal, I'd buy Mac OS X and build my own spec'd tower from NewEgg.
All other things being equal, Apple doesn't give a rats ass about your market segment. The probability that Apple will release OSX for whitebox sales is zero while Jobs is iCEO.
Quote:
But of course that option is not avaliable. I'd be willing to wager that more folks than not would go that route, instead of having to settle for a cramped laptop or a minimally expandable iMac.
Well duh. It would be cheaper for you. It would not be good for Apple or Apple users in the long run. Jobs is not Gates or Dell. Apple is not Microsoft nor Dell. The corporate mindset is very different and I suspect that the current management wouldn't be able to play Dell and Gate's game and win. It would be the early 1990s Apple all over again.
Fortunately they are bright enough to play by their own rules, on their own turf, to their own strengths rather than weaknesses and win the market segments they want to win.
So far what I've consistently said on the subject is:
A lower cost tower around $1499-$1699 is likely.
A lower cost tower is likely a single processor Mac Pro. Xeon and not Conroe.
A mid-tower is not likely based on my perception of Apple's mobile centric strategy and current line up.
A mid-tower is not likely based on the fact that there are no 28% margin mid-towers on the market and an Apple mid-tower would be directly compared against a Dell mid-tower and would lose horribly.
...Vinea
#1. You may be right, here. Question is, will it sell enough to remain in the line-up?
#2. Booo, expensive Xeon and it's expensive ram not needed.
#3. You mean Apple hasn't contacted you, me neither.
#4 I would like to see some numbers from Dell, HP, Compac backing up this statement.
What do you think the chances are Apple will announce the replacement for the 12" PowerBook at the Tuesday event?
I have no idea, but this is my biggest hope.
I've been reading this thread and am confused about why you guys are confused. At home I use a 15" tibook connected to a cinema display & keyboard and at work a 12" aluminum one with similar configuration.
Why do this instead of buying an iMac? Simple - it can travel with me. I can use it on a plane or in a hotel room. I really need a new home computer and have been putting off buying an MBP because of it's size. It's HUGH compared to the 12" one I usually carry around. Since I can't afford to travel first class, I can't see using the current MBP on a plane - it's hard enough to use the 12" one there.
And the MB is pathetically underpowered for working with 3d graphics applications. I was going to go to the apple store today to buy an MBP. Waiting oe day (or a month if it's not ready) for what I really want, just in case, priceless ..
I poo-poo the concept because Apple has thus far not released a mid-tower mac. This isn't a hard one to grasp.
So far what I've consistently said on the subject is:
A lower cost tower around $1499-$1699 is likely.
A lower cost tower is likely a single processor Mac Pro. Xeon and not Conroe.
A mid-tower is not likely based on my perception of Apple's mobile centric strategy and current line up.
A mid-tower is not likely based on the fact that there are no 28% margin mid-towers on the market and an Apple mid-tower would be directly compared against a Dell mid-tower and would lose horribly.
than weaknesses and win the market segments they want to win.
Vinea
single exon systems use the same chipsets and sockets as conroe
a mid-tower fits in to apples gaming plans.
A system starting around the minis price with on board video and slots to add video and other card with desktop parts can be done.
You really think so? If 24" iMacs @ $1999 are selling like hot cakes now, why would they drop the price by that much if at all? I hope you're right but I am expecting the worst in terms of pricing tomorrow (i.e. $1999 still being the price for a 24").
EDIT - I read your message wrong (you mentioned "tower" and not iMacs so I assume you don't mean iMacs). Regardless, I still wonder if the price of iMacs will drop at all....I doubt it.
I poo-poo the concept because Apple has thus far not released a mid-tower mac. This isn't a hard one to grasp.
So it will be a bad idea right up until such time as they do. At that point it will then be a good idea? How fast is that bandwagon moving exactly?
Quote:
So far what I've consistently said on the subject is:
A lower cost tower around $1499-$1699 is likely.
A lower cost tower is likely a single processor Mac Pro. Xeon and not Conroe.
A mid-tower is not likely based on my perception of Apple's mobile centric strategy and current line up.
A mid-tower is not likely based on the fact that there are no 28% margin mid-towers on the market and an Apple mid-tower would be directly compared against a Dell mid-tower and would lose horribly.
Quote:
Yes, it is easier to try to categorize your opponent as someone who cannot understand your position rather than actually refute their arguments.
...or... knowing the perspective from which people view the world goes a long way in understanding their mindset. This is the reason I stated the idea of a laptop-only user.
But seeing what I typed this way doesn't enable a pointless Bart Simpson-esque "Zing!"
Wow, ya got me.
Quote:
All other things being equal, Apple doesn't give a rats ass about your market segment.
And that market segement would be exactly what? Answer carefully... investors are watching.
Quote:
Well duh.
Brilliant quip. I'm on to you now! You are schooled in the tactics of argumentation and debate aren't you. Cornell perchance?
Er...your adjuncts aren't in it as a real job are they? While I agree about the middle class being squeezed all the adjuncts I know either have a day job or are doing it prior to finding a tenure track job or are doing it short term in between other gigs for "fun".
For these folks the lack of benefits kinda comes with the territory.
The majority of adjuncts I know they do it because they like teaching. The money is soooo small it's not worth considering.
Vinea
There quite a few female teachers who have children and can't hold down a full time job. They are hurting.
However, the thing that burns my a__ the most is that MDC is not paying their half of FICA - Social Security. The way they get around it is typical Big Business. Big business gets away with too d_____d much.
single exon systems use the same chipsets and sockets as conroe
When I made that comment it was more along the lines as a BTO Mac Pro with only one processor installed. Kinda like the single CPU Dell Precision Workstations. Same FB-DIMM memory, motherboard, etc.
You really think so? If 24" iMacs @ $1999 are selling like hot cakes now, why would they drop the price by that much if at all? I hope you're right but I am expecting the worst in terms of pricing tomorrow (i.e. $1999 still being the price for a 24").
EDIT - I read your message wrong (you mentioned "tower" and not iMacs so I assume you don't mean iMacs). Regardless, I still wonder if the price of iMacs will drop at all....I doubt it.
They've had towers in this price range historically...like the low end single G5 Powermacs.
It provides some upsell opportunities in ACDs as well as vid cards and the like. Perhaps they do feel that the 24" iMac is good enough and never release a single processor Mac Pro.
Perhaps likely is not quite as accurate as "I sure hope so".
When I made that comment it was more along the lines as a BTO Mac Pro with only one processor installed. Kinda like the single CPU Dell Precision Workstations. Same FB-DIMM memory, motherboard, etc.
Vinea
More or a less a machine that is marginally less expensive than the dual CPU systems. What's so wrong with a state of the art Conroe-133/P33 system? Not 'premium' enough for you? Not good enough for you simply because every else has one?
So it will be a bad idea right up until such time as they do. At that point it will then be a good idea? How fast is that bandwagon moving exactly?
No, its because they certainly have the technical ability to make such a machine but Jobs has for the last decade NOT done so. Now that Apple is on the upswing there is even less incentive.
Good idea or bad, historically Apple has not offered a mid-tower and therefore is less likely to than say...oh a company that has historically offered a mid-tower like Dell or HP.
I would say the same of Toshiba and Sony today as well. Unlikely to offer a mid-tower because they have deliberately decided to withdraw from that market as unprofitable for them.
Quote:
...or... knowing the perspective from which people view the world goes a long way in understanding their mindset. This is the reason I stated the idea of a laptop-only user.
But seeing what I typed this way doesn't enable a pointless Bart Simpson-esque "Zing!"
Wow, ya got me.
Except for the fact you want to characterize me as a "laptop-only user" despite the fact that I've stated multiple times (including in this thread) that I also have a Mac Pro and a Quicksilver.
Therefore its a lot less about "knowing my perspective" and a lot more about pideon-holing to be dismissive.
I'm pretty damn tired of the xMac topic. I restated my position simply to be clear and avoid another round of words being put in my mouth.
Quote:
And that market segement would be exactly what? Answer carefully... investors are watching.
The market segment with poor reading comprehension evidently. Is it unclear that the market segment would be those that would prefer to build their machines from Newegg?
Quote:
Brilliant quip. I'm on to you now! You are schooled in the tactics of argumentation and debate aren't you. Cornell perchance?
FOXPhotog
So in this response you have addressed zero of the arguments but insist on discussing my character or perhaps lack thereof. Which means I pegged your intent on calling me a laptop user pretty much dead on. Bugger off, I'm retired from the xMac debate and mildly regret commenting on your post.
#1. You may be right, here. Question is, will it sell enough to remain in the line-up?
I hope so but it doesn't usually.
Quote:
#2. Booo, expensive Xeon and it's expensive ram not needed.
Can't help you there.
Quote:
#3. You mean Apple hasn't contacted you, me neither.
Well I can no longer claim to be Fake Steve.
Quote:
#4 I would like to see some numbers from Dell, HP, Compac backing up this statement.
So would I. Although looking at their average margin there ain't many things in their lineup with such margins. I don't believe they go into any more detail on margins for particular product lines any more than Apple does but I don't listen in on their conference calls.
More or a less a machine that is marginally less expensive than the dual CPU systems. What's so wrong with a state of the art Conroe-133/P33 system? Not 'premium' enough for you? Not good enough for you simply because every else has one?
Quote:
Originally Posted by BenRoethig
If they think that, Jobs is completely delusional and needs to be replaced. The 24" iMac is about as powerful as a $1000 desktop at twice the price.
Ben, what you have always failed to notice is that I don't disagree with your assessment of the iMac or the attractiveness of a mid-tower for certain users.
If Apple made a mid-tower Mac with Conroe I would buy one in a heartbeat. I prefer a cube form factor but I'm flexible. As I noted, I DO own a Quicksilver and a Mac Pro.
Where we disagree on is that Apple MUST sell a Conroe based mid-tower Mac and that not to do so has some dire impact on Apple. Apple doesn't sell a Conroe based mid-tower, is doing wonderfully so why rock the damn boat? I can live without the mid-tower a lot better than Apple stumbling.
We agree that the iMac is a poor "value". You believe it is in Apple interest to rectify that. I think it is in my and Apple's interest to stay the course.
At BEST I believe that Apple will release a single CPU Xeon Mac Pro. That's if we're lucky although historically such a machine has been made so its not that big a leap of faith.
So would I. Although looking at their average margin there ain't many things in their lineup with such margins. I don't believe they go into any more detail on margins for particular product lines any more than Apple does but I don't listen in on their conference calls.
Vinea
Here's where you and I probably disagree the most.
I'll use Dell for my argument, just becasue.
My reasoning goes as follows:
Dell admittedly sells elebantygazillion more "razor thin margin" low end boxen than they do computers in the $800 to > $ 2000 range. Dell's margins, if my feeble brain remembers, hover in the 14% to 18% range(lately on the lower end). At a ratio of elebantygazillion to 1, the margins on the upper end, that being the $800 to > $ 2000 range, have to be in the 28% or higher range.
Michael Dell has in the past admitted that the low end computers are a drag on their margins. This we know. What we don't know is what those margins are. Me I'm guessing in the 5 - 10% range, with Dell hoping for upsale on add-ins. The $800 and up market is what, 10 - 15% of the total market. So for every 1 upper end, they sell 9 lower end.
Completely made up stuff:
$550 = ave. selling price low end
$1500 = ave. selling price higher end
9 units *$550 + 1unit * $1500 = $6000 total revenue
$6000 revenue * .16 margins = $960 in gross margin
assume X = margins for the higher end computers.
assume 10% = margins for the lower end(I'm being generous here)
9 units * $550 * .1 + 1 unit * $1500 * X margin = $960
$495 + $1500X = $960
$1500 x = $465
x = .31 or a gross margin of 31% for Dell's computers selling in the upper end, or in the $800 to > $2000 range.
the fine print: It took me quite awhile to get these numbers to work out in my favor.
Check the title of this thread. What has it got to do with Logic?
Quote:
Originally Posted by sequitur
There quite a few female teachers who have children and can't hold down a full time job. They are hurting.
However, the thing that burns my a__ the most is that MDC is not paying their half of FICA - Social Security. The way they get around it is typical Big Business. Big business gets away with too d_____d much.
So let me get this straight...
Speculating about updates to Apple's music technology is off topic, but chatting about FICA or which college has the better veggie burger or whatever it is you're chatting about is on topic? ... ... ...
I may just be a cat, but I know a NON sequitur when I see one.
incidentally, this thread is getting a lot of views reflecting mounting interest in tomorrow's event. Given that the majority of traffic on the interweb is likely to stop by this thread tonight, perhaps we should chat about what interests people most of all:
1) An update to Logic - while a long shot for tomorrow's event, clearly the topic of most interest to most people.
2) A refreshed iMac - a virtual certainty. While speculative drawings simply make slight variations to preexisting products, it's likely that, as Apple has done in the past, the new iMac will look nothing like its precursor.
3) dot Mac - this area has languished for a while, and if for no other reason than to not allow one area of the company to blemish another (and the fact that dot Mac services will be suspended during the announcement), Apple's internet services will likely get a face lift. I wouldn't be surprised if that will include greater integration with iPhone, increased storage allotments, improvements to sync, and a taste of Leopard.
4) An ultraportable - unlikely, but not out of the question, particularly if targetted to the Back To School crowd.
Comments
I don?t understand why some users prefer laptops. Where do they use them? Driving to work? At Starbucks? Sitting in the park? Bouncing around on a commuter train? Do they take them on trips or on vacation?
Good question with a good answer. Yes, a lot of people use them for that kind of stuff. Remember that there's a LOT of business travelers that need to do work while on the road or plane. They use them for that.
A lot of times people like to work away from home. Some feel it helps them focus on work more instead of watching TV, cleaning, being bothered by the kids, etc. If you can take your computer to the coffee house with you, you can get stuff done without distraction.
As someone in the academic environment, you might appreciate this next one. When I was a college student, my laptop proved invaluable for doing group assignments. I'd bring it to the library where we'd check out a conference room, sit around and develop our project. I did that a number of times.
One thing to remember in all of this is that a lot of times you don't want to (or can't) rely on someone else's computer to show your work correctly. I don't know how many times I've seen Powerpoint on one computer show a slide differently than the same version of Powerpoint on another computer. If you present your work from YOUR machine, you know you're in good shape.
The point that was made about the mid-Macs seems to keep coming up. And I think I just figured out why vinea keeps poo-pooing the concept.
I poo-poo the concept because Apple has thus far not released a mid-tower mac. This isn't a hard one to grasp.
So far what I've consistently said on the subject is:
He's seems like a laptop guy. Many laptop folks have a hard time undersatnding why any waste their money on anything that is not a laptop. I reserve the right to be wrong though...
Yes, it is easier to try to categorize your opponent as someone who cannot understand your position rather than actually refute their arguments.
I personally went with a refurb MacPro, for the very reason that there was not a xMac between an iMac, MacPro. I sure as hell didn't want a MB or MBP. I don't care how much you folks swear by them. :^)
Bully for you.
I bought a Mac not because of some elitist ideal that Mac is the name brand to be spoken in the same breath as Mercedes and Coach. It is a superior OS no question. But I just don't see the value in forcing folks to buy overpriced hardware just for the opportunity of letting them use your OS.
All other things being equal, I'd buy Mac OS X and build my own spec'd tower from NewEgg.
All other things being equal, Apple doesn't give a rats ass about your market segment. The probability that Apple will release OSX for whitebox sales is zero while Jobs is iCEO.
But of course that option is not avaliable. I'd be willing to wager that more folks than not would go that route, instead of having to settle for a cramped laptop or a minimally expandable iMac.
Well duh. It would be cheaper for you. It would not be good for Apple or Apple users in the long run. Jobs is not Gates or Dell. Apple is not Microsoft nor Dell. The corporate mindset is very different and I suspect that the current management wouldn't be able to play Dell and Gate's game and win. It would be the early 1990s Apple all over again.
Fortunately they are bright enough to play by their own rules, on their own turf, to their own strengths rather than weaknesses and win the market segments they want to win.
Vinea
...
So far what I've consistently said on the subject is:
- A lower cost tower around $1499-$1699 is likely.
- A lower cost tower is likely a single processor Mac Pro. Xeon and not Conroe.
- A mid-tower is not likely based on my perception of Apple's mobile centric strategy and current line up.
- A mid-tower is not likely based on the fact that there are no 28% margin mid-towers on the market and an Apple mid-tower would be directly compared against a Dell mid-tower and would lose horribly.
...Vinea#1. You may be right, here. Question is, will it sell enough to remain in the line-up?
#2. Booo, expensive Xeon and it's expensive ram not needed.
#3. You mean Apple hasn't contacted you, me neither.
#4 I would like to see some numbers from Dell, HP, Compac backing up this statement.
What do you think the chances are Apple will announce the replacement for the 12" PowerBook at the Tuesday event?
I have no idea, but this is my biggest hope.
I've been reading this thread and am confused about why you guys are confused. At home I use a 15" tibook connected to a cinema display & keyboard and at work a 12" aluminum one with similar configuration.
Why do this instead of buying an iMac? Simple - it can travel with me. I can use it on a plane or in a hotel room. I really need a new home computer and have been putting off buying an MBP because of it's size. It's HUGH compared to the 12" one I usually carry around. Since I can't afford to travel first class, I can't see using the current MBP on a plane - it's hard enough to use the 12" one there.
And the MB is pathetically underpowered for working with 3d graphics applications. I was going to go to the apple store today to buy an MBP. Waiting oe day (or a month if it's not ready) for what I really want, just in case, priceless ..
I poo-poo the concept because Apple has thus far not released a mid-tower mac. This isn't a hard one to grasp.
So far what I've consistently said on the subject is:
- A lower cost tower around $1499-$1699 is likely.
- A lower cost tower is likely a single processor Mac Pro. Xeon and not Conroe.
- A mid-tower is not likely based on my perception of Apple's mobile centric strategy and current line up.
- A mid-tower is not likely based on the fact that there are no 28% margin mid-towers on the market and an Apple mid-tower would be directly compared against a Dell mid-tower and would lose horribly.
than weaknesses and win the market segments they want to win.Vinea
single exon systems use the same chipsets and sockets as conroe
a mid-tower fits in to apples gaming plans.
A system starting around the minis price with on board video and slots to add video and other card with desktop parts can be done.
A lower cost tower around $1499-$1699 is likely.
You really think so? If 24" iMacs @ $1999 are selling like hot cakes now, why would they drop the price by that much if at all? I hope you're right but I am expecting the worst in terms of pricing tomorrow (i.e. $1999 still being the price for a 24").
EDIT - I read your message wrong (you mentioned "tower" and not iMacs so I assume you don't mean iMacs). Regardless, I still wonder if the price of iMacs will drop at all....I doubt it.
I poo-poo the concept because Apple has thus far not released a mid-tower mac. This isn't a hard one to grasp.
So it will be a bad idea right up until such time as they do. At that point it will then be a good idea? How fast is that bandwagon moving exactly?
So far what I've consistently said on the subject is:
Yes, it is easier to try to categorize your opponent as someone who cannot understand your position rather than actually refute their arguments.
...or... knowing the perspective from which people view the world goes a long way in understanding their mindset. This is the reason I stated the idea of a laptop-only user.
But seeing what I typed this way doesn't enable a pointless Bart Simpson-esque "Zing!"
Wow, ya got me.
All other things being equal, Apple doesn't give a rats ass about your market segment.
And that market segement would be exactly what? Answer carefully... investors are watching.
Well duh.
Brilliant quip. I'm on to you now! You are schooled in the tactics of argumentation and debate aren't you. Cornell perchance?
FOXPhotog
Er...your adjuncts aren't in it as a real job are they? While I agree about the middle class being squeezed all the adjuncts I know either have a day job or are doing it prior to finding a tenure track job or are doing it short term in between other gigs for "fun".
For these folks the lack of benefits kinda comes with the territory.
The majority of adjuncts I know they do it because they like teaching. The money is soooo small it's not worth considering.
Vinea
There quite a few female teachers who have children and can't hold down a full time job. They are hurting.
However, the thing that burns my a__ the most is that MDC is not paying their half of FICA - Social Security. The way they get around it is typical Big Business. Big business gets away with too d_____d much.
single exon systems use the same chipsets and sockets as conroe
When I made that comment it was more along the lines as a BTO Mac Pro with only one processor installed. Kinda like the single CPU Dell Precision Workstations. Same FB-DIMM memory, motherboard, etc.
Vinea
You really think so? If 24" iMacs @ $1999 are selling like hot cakes now, why would they drop the price by that much if at all? I hope you're right but I am expecting the worst in terms of pricing tomorrow (i.e. $1999 still being the price for a 24").
EDIT - I read your message wrong (you mentioned "tower" and not iMacs so I assume you don't mean iMacs). Regardless, I still wonder if the price of iMacs will drop at all....I doubt it.
They've had towers in this price range historically...like the low end single G5 Powermacs.
It provides some upsell opportunities in ACDs as well as vid cards and the like. Perhaps they do feel that the 24" iMac is good enough and never release a single processor Mac Pro.
Perhaps likely is not quite as accurate as "I sure hope so".
Vinea
When I made that comment it was more along the lines as a BTO Mac Pro with only one processor installed. Kinda like the single CPU Dell Precision Workstations. Same FB-DIMM memory, motherboard, etc.
Vinea
More or a less a machine that is marginally less expensive than the dual CPU systems. What's so wrong with a state of the art Conroe-133/P33 system? Not 'premium' enough for you? Not good enough for you simply because every else has one?
So it will be a bad idea right up until such time as they do. At that point it will then be a good idea? How fast is that bandwagon moving exactly?
No, its because they certainly have the technical ability to make such a machine but Jobs has for the last decade NOT done so. Now that Apple is on the upswing there is even less incentive.
Good idea or bad, historically Apple has not offered a mid-tower and therefore is less likely to than say...oh a company that has historically offered a mid-tower like Dell or HP.
I would say the same of Toshiba and Sony today as well. Unlikely to offer a mid-tower because they have deliberately decided to withdraw from that market as unprofitable for them.
...or... knowing the perspective from which people view the world goes a long way in understanding their mindset. This is the reason I stated the idea of a laptop-only user.
But seeing what I typed this way doesn't enable a pointless Bart Simpson-esque "Zing!"
Wow, ya got me.
Except for the fact you want to characterize me as a "laptop-only user" despite the fact that I've stated multiple times (including in this thread) that I also have a Mac Pro and a Quicksilver.
Therefore its a lot less about "knowing my perspective" and a lot more about pideon-holing to be dismissive.
I'm pretty damn tired of the xMac topic. I restated my position simply to be clear and avoid another round of words being put in my mouth.
And that market segement would be exactly what? Answer carefully... investors are watching.
The market segment with poor reading comprehension evidently. Is it unclear that the market segment would be those that would prefer to build their machines from Newegg?
Brilliant quip. I'm on to you now! You are schooled in the tactics of argumentation and debate aren't you. Cornell perchance?
FOXPhotog
So in this response you have addressed zero of the arguments but insist on discussing my character or perhaps lack thereof. Which means I pegged your intent on calling me a laptop user pretty much dead on. Bugger off, I'm retired from the xMac debate and mildly regret commenting on your post.
Vinea
Perhaps they do feel that the 24" iMac is good enough and never release a single processor Mac Pro.
Vinea
If they think that, Jobs is completely delusional and needs to be replaced. The 24" iMac is about as powerful as a $1000 desktop at twice the price.
#1. You may be right, here. Question is, will it sell enough to remain in the line-up?
I hope so but it doesn't usually.
#2. Booo, expensive Xeon and it's expensive ram not needed.
Can't help you there.
#3. You mean Apple hasn't contacted you, me neither.
Well I can no longer claim to be Fake Steve.
#4 I would like to see some numbers from Dell, HP, Compac backing up this statement.
So would I. Although looking at their average margin there ain't many things in their lineup with such margins. I don't believe they go into any more detail on margins for particular product lines any more than Apple does but I don't listen in on their conference calls.
Vinea
More or a less a machine that is marginally less expensive than the dual CPU systems. What's so wrong with a state of the art Conroe-133/P33 system? Not 'premium' enough for you? Not good enough for you simply because every else has one?
If they think that, Jobs is completely delusional and needs to be replaced. The 24" iMac is about as powerful as a $1000 desktop at twice the price.
Ben, what you have always failed to notice is that I don't disagree with your assessment of the iMac or the attractiveness of a mid-tower for certain users.
If Apple made a mid-tower Mac with Conroe I would buy one in a heartbeat. I prefer a cube form factor but I'm flexible. As I noted, I DO own a Quicksilver and a Mac Pro.
Where we disagree on is that Apple MUST sell a Conroe based mid-tower Mac and that not to do so has some dire impact on Apple. Apple doesn't sell a Conroe based mid-tower, is doing wonderfully so why rock the damn boat? I can live without the mid-tower a lot better than Apple stumbling.
We agree that the iMac is a poor "value". You believe it is in Apple interest to rectify that. I think it is in my and Apple's interest to stay the course.
At BEST I believe that Apple will release a single CPU Xeon Mac Pro. That's if we're lucky although historically such a machine has been made so its not that big a leap of faith.
Vinea
...
So would I. Although looking at their average margin there ain't many things in their lineup with such margins. I don't believe they go into any more detail on margins for particular product lines any more than Apple does but I don't listen in on their conference calls.
Vinea
Here's where you and I probably disagree the most.
I'll use Dell for my argument, just becasue.
My reasoning goes as follows:
Dell admittedly sells elebantygazillion more "razor thin margin" low end boxen than they do computers in the $800 to > $ 2000 range. Dell's margins, if my feeble brain remembers, hover in the 14% to 18% range(lately on the lower end). At a ratio of elebantygazillion to 1, the margins on the upper end, that being the $800 to > $ 2000 range, have to be in the 28% or higher range.
Michael Dell has in the past admitted that the low end computers are a drag on their margins. This we know. What we don't know is what those margins are. Me I'm guessing in the 5 - 10% range, with Dell hoping for upsale on add-ins. The $800 and up market is what, 10 - 15% of the total market. So for every 1 upper end, they sell 9 lower end.
Completely made up stuff:
$550 = ave. selling price low end
$1500 = ave. selling price higher end
9 units *$550 + 1unit * $1500 = $6000 total revenue
$6000 revenue * .16 margins = $960 in gross margin
assume X = margins for the higher end computers.
assume 10% = margins for the lower end(I'm being generous here)
9 units * $550 * .1 + 1 unit * $1500 * X margin = $960
$495 + $1500X = $960
$1500 x = $465
x = .31 or a gross margin of 31% for Dell's computers selling in the upper end, or in the $800 to > $2000 range.
the fine print: It took me quite awhile to get these numbers to work out in my favor.
Check the title of this thread. What has it got to do with Logic?
There quite a few female teachers who have children and can't hold down a full time job. They are hurting.
However, the thing that burns my a__ the most is that MDC is not paying their half of FICA - Social Security. The way they get around it is typical Big Business. Big business gets away with too d_____d much.
So let me get this straight...
Speculating about updates to Apple's music technology is off topic, but chatting about FICA or which college has the better veggie burger or whatever it is you're chatting about is on topic?
I may just be a cat, but I know a NON sequitur when I see one.
incidentally, this thread is getting a lot of views reflecting mounting interest in tomorrow's event. Given that the majority of traffic on the interweb is likely to stop by this thread tonight, perhaps we should chat about what interests people most of all:
1) An update to Logic - while a long shot for tomorrow's event, clearly the topic of most interest to most people.
2) A refreshed iMac - a virtual certainty. While speculative drawings simply make slight variations to preexisting products, it's likely that, as Apple has done in the past, the new iMac will look nothing like its precursor.
3) dot Mac - this area has languished for a while, and if for no other reason than to not allow one area of the company to blemish another (and the fact that dot Mac services will be suspended during the announcement), Apple's internet services will likely get a face lift. I wouldn't be surprised if that will include greater integration with iPhone, increased storage allotments, improvements to sync, and a taste of Leopard.
4) An ultraportable - unlikely, but not out of the question, particularly if targetted to the Back To School crowd.
$1,199
$1,499
$1,799
Interesting way of looking at the rumors...
$1,199 - 20" model
$1,499 - 24" model
$1,799 - New size?
So I think tomorrow's going to be:
.Mac enhancements/feature upgrades
New, Redesigned iMacs
iLife '08
iWork '08
That's it!
(of course I hope that I am wrong and there's more)
Rumored pricing-
$1,199
$1,499
$1,799
Interesting way of looking at the rumors...
$1,199 - 20" model
$1,499 - 24" model
$1,799 - New size?
So I think tomorrow's going to be:
.Mac enhancements/feature upgrades
New, Redesigned iMacs
iLife '08
iWork '08
That's it!
(of course I hope that I am wrong and there's more)
I do to. I dont like to wait for all my Mac announcments at different times throughout the year. Just dump a bunch of them on me at once.
Interesting way of looking at the rumors...
$1,199 - 20" model
$1,499 - 24" model
$1,799 - New size?
Not a new size, considering the existing 24" model is $1,999.
$1,199 = Basic 20" Superdrive model (160GB HD etc.)
$1,499 = Supped-up 20" Superdrive model (250GB HD + faster proc. etc.)
$1,799 = 24" Superdrive model (250GB HD + faster proc. + NVIDIA GeForce etc.)