A lot of people have remarked that one thing that iMovie '08 certainly has over '06 is simplicity. That '06 was "frustrating" or "hard to use".
Now, maybe it's just my familiarity with the earlier program, but it looks to me that to achieve what I can do in '08, I have to:
--Import my clips into the clip bin. This certainly take longer, and the real time stuff in '08 is welcome, but, if I click the "import" button I get the little finder mini-window and I can browse to whatever movie stuff I want. It isn't terribly complex, and '08 requires you to do the same thing, just not necessarily on a project to project basis. If it's a matter of importing camera footage, it's plug in the camera, watch iMovie launch and tell it to import.
--Drag the clips I want into the time line, in the order I want. Same as '08, right? If I need to use a clip more than once, I click on it to highlight it and copy and past. You know, like every other app on the mac. If I want, I can do that either in the clip bin or on the timeline. If I want to add a sound effect or music, I drag it from the "media" browser (pretty similar to the one in '08) onto the timeline. Drag it around to where I want it. See the image scrub while I do. See colored lines representing it. Highlight and delete, if I want. Command T again if I want to cut it somewhere and take out a chunk.
--Drag the playhead along the clip to see it play. Decide what part I want to use. Hit "split clip at playhead" to make a cut, or command T (oh no, a keyboard shortcut! I'm lost!) click on the unwanted portion to highlight it, and hit delete. This actually seems more straightforward, to me, than '08's little framing window with it's default length, although if the idea is you just want to have all 3 second clips it saves what, a keypress?
--Once I have clips in order and the length I want, I can clip that big "editing" button over there and see the tabs for "titles" and "transitions" Pick a style, just like '08. I can drag and drop my transitions, just like '08. See the results previewed, just like '08. If I find the idea of something scary like choosing the length of the transition to overwhelming, I can just go with the default-- just like '08, which fixes that confrontation with befuddlement by leaving out the choice. Again, the real time stuff is very welcome, no one likes to wait for transitions to render. But while that is "more boring" I still can't see how it is "more complex".
And now.... I choose how to export, with a button, just like '08! Nope, don't have a "send to You Tube button". Booooo, '06 sucks.
So......what am I missing? I think it's worth noting that to do the things that I am limited to in '08 in '06 the steps are pretty much the same. That is, '08 takes the very easiest way to use '06 and makes it mandatory. So is it the presence of "choices" lurking around that makes '06 such a show stopper for folks? If so, what does that say about Apple's plans for '08? I mean, if they start adding functionally, doesn't that get all crazy complicated and all? I mean, I guess they could put some stuff behind an "advanced tab". Hmmmmm.......
And, for my money, the layout of the '06 interface is actually much cleaner and easier to grasp its functionality than the new one, which is kind of a hodgepodge of windows and buttons with somewhat cryptic icons and no clear relationships.
Now, the one place where '08 has it all over '06 is the iPhoto style library of all your movie stuff right there in the browser, and if I was going to make a movie with bits and pieces of lots of stuff I had on my HDD, then yes, '08 is, well, at least much faster, and easier in the sense that I don't have to hunt around (up to a point-- if you have actually a great deal of footage it's going to be easier to do a finder style text based search anyway, to get what you want).
But if the big upside is that I get some footage of that dude who can, like, totally put an entire whole apple in his mouth, toss on some music, toss on a title or two, maybe stick a dissolve or something in there-- then I'm not seeing how it's actually less complicated to do that in '08 than in '06.
The way people talk about the barriers to entry in '06, what with its importing and copying and pasting and drag and drop and tabs to select functionality--- well, I can't help but think, wait, what, all of a sudden we can't use any Apple programs? Or is it just as soon as I put "movie" in there bone simple conventions that are used all over OS X become mystifying?
By the way, I will freely and happily admit that I am somewhat beating a dead horse here, since the iMovie '08 ship has clearly sailed, and Apple will do with it as it sees fit.
I was just curious about the ease of use question in this case, as I am in general. Because of being interested in computing, and interfaces, and shit.
I guess what I'm saying is, could we please just skip the "OMFG! Get over it!!!!! Loser!!!!!!" responses? Really, please, I'm happy to hear how '08 is easier, or how maybe the overall experience is just sort of more inviting, or whatever, from any given perspective.
But just defaulting to variations on "shut up, whiner" is so very dreary, and makes Addabox cranky, and doesn't really add anything, at this point.
I think the best that can be said is that the lack of features is the primary simplification of iMovie '08. If you're just starting out, and you're trying to figure something out, there's less stuff to wade through that you don't understand.
Another great feature of '08 that has not really been mentioned is its adjustments and transitions, etc, are not only instant, but non-destructive. You can always revert to the original form at any time, something that requires a lot of memory (not to mention time) in HD.
I think the best that can be said is that the lack of features is the primary simplification of iMovie '08. If you're just starting out, and you're trying to figure something out, there's less stuff to wade through that you don't understand.
I can kind of see that, once you get the browser/library populated with all your footage.
But, again, I look at the default iMovie '06 work space. I see a place for clips, I see a timeline. I drag clips to timeline. I drag transitions to timeline.
It's true, I have to press a "clips" button see and drag clips, and an "editing" button to see and drag transitions, but is that really a lot to wade through?
Is the little yellow clip length window actually less confusing than scrubbing through your clip to where you want to make cuts and hitting the cut command?
One thing that occurs to me is that '06 sort of invites you to do a lot, so even if you decline and just use the defaults and most overt aspects of the UI, you still have a "sense" that it's more complicated than it is. Whereas since '08 makes sure that you can't do anything but the most overt stuff maybe there is a psychological effect of "less intimidating".
Which gets into some interesting UI stuff regarding discoverability. My understanding is that discoverability is how you offer depth without making the interface too horrendously complicated.
So, for instance, in a world processing program, you want to put the most frequently used tools right out there in the default interface where anyone can see and understand what they're for. But it really wouldn't be that great an idea to simply limit the tool set to what can be comfortably deployed within the standard window, so you strive to put less frequently used tools where they can be readily discovered-- as in not going more than two deep in a menu tree, or making sure that tool bar buttons that offer multiple choices indicate that graphically, somehow.
So what I'm having a hard time understanding is why a video editing program needs to be pretty much the simplest-by-way-of-constraining-the-tool-set app on the Mac?
I mean, iPhoto, brand new '08 iPhoto, is much more complicated than iMovie '08. It offers many more options for dealing with your media, editorially, organizationally, and presentationally. Garageband is vastly more complicated, requiring the user to understand the use of a timeline, meter, tempo, multiple tracks, loops, several different work spaces depending on what you're doing, etc.
But I don't here anyone yearning to see those apps brought into the realm of mere mortals by drastically limiting what they can do.
And Pages is Photoshop compared to iMovie, but surely no one would advocate for making the preset templates the only way you can do anything, so people won't get lost with options? Offering the templates, sure, that way anyone who doesn't want to mess with formatting can produce a pretty good looking letter, or whatever. But taking the formatting tools away? Obviously, a non-starter.
Maybe it's because we're such a visual culture, which increasingly means a moving image culture, so that the act of making and sharing moving images needs to more along the lines of texting-- the interface is practically invisible, but for what is intended formatting and editing options are actually liabilities. Media creation and sharing, for the average user, becomes entirely ad hoc and casual, and nearly in real time, so that the tools to manipulate media need to emphasize speed and transparency over any other criteria.
Still, even if Apple were to add a Twitter level text app, focused on getting that cumbersome email UI out of the way, you wouldn't expect them to replace Pages with it.
Another great feature of '08 that has not really been mentioned is its adjustments and transitions, etc, are not only instant, but non-destructive. You can always revert to the original form at any time, something that requires a lot of memory (not to mention time) in HD.
Agree completely. But the addition of things like real time adjustments and non-destructive editing is sort of a separate issue from the "iMovie had to shed features to make it easier to use" argument.
[QUOTE=meelash;1128508]They DID. That's the whole point.
And just for the record, I think David Pogue's article is pretty much spot-on to the real situation, internal to Apple and out here on the fora.
The real test for Apple, I think, is how quickly this new iMovie develops into something that can match or beat HD in capability as well as ease of use.
Meelash: .... The only thing wrong with that logic is this:
It has already been stated by Steve Jobs that the driving force behind Imovie8 was ease of use, right? If that's his desire then, in order to make it " better " he has to make it even more simplistic to satisfy the u-tube crowd bcause to add more functionality would make it less easy and more like, I dunno, .....Imovie HD ? .. let's face it ... the only thing that makes sense is Apple is starting to change it's business model to resemble that of microsoft .. make your free apps pretty basic ( crappy ) and offer better apps at a higher price. If this trend continues we will end up with two " microsofts " .. one in Redmond and another in Cupertino.
P.S. I found this post on another discussion board and found it very interesting indeed, so FYI:
17th,
2007
1:14 pm
This is part of a REALLY interesting trend. First, disclosure: I’m an apple tech, I work with guys from apple, I have loads of macs at home, I love apple.
BUT, something very bad is happening.
The Mac platform has always had one up on the competition - they’ve always included amazing applications so it was a semi-pro machine right out of the box - but this change in iMovie is a move toward the PC model - you can’t really edit video unless you buy Final Cut - that is a very bad move for apple.
Also, take a close look a the new iMac - remind you of anything? It looks exactly like Dell flatscreens - and the desktop image in Leopard? Yep, looks like Vista - what is apple doing? They’re trying to blend in, so the Mac isn’t seen as “standing out”. That’s actually what the guys who work at apple are saying.
They’ve always been the industry leader - but I watch them very closely and I see a very specific and intentional move toward copying the business model of the PC world. They hope this strategy will win them more mainstream acceptance, but I’m afraid it’s the beginning of a period where Apple is no longer the innovator…
As someone commented to me yesterday, it’s starting to seem like all the revolutionary product from Apple is just what Steve brought from NEXT - and that well is running dry.
And just for the record, I think David Pogue's article is pretty much spot-on to the real situation, internal to Apple and out here on the fora.
The real test for Apple, I think, is how quickly this new iMovie develops into something that can match or beat HD in capability as well as ease of use.
Meelash: .... The only thing wrong with that logic is this:
It has already been stated by Steve Jobs that the driving force behind Imovie8 was ease of use, right? If that's his desire then, in order to make it " better " he has to make it even more simplistic to satisfy the u-tube crowd bcause to add more functionality would make it less easy and more like, I dunno, .....Imovie HD ? .. let's face it ... the only thing that makes sense is Apple is starting to change it's business model to resemble that of microsoft .. make your free apps pretty basic ( crappy ) and offer better apps at a higher price. If this trend continues we will end up with two " microsofts " .. one in Redmond and another in Cupertino.
P.S. I found this post on another discussion board and found it very interesting indeed, so FYI:
17th,
2007
1:14 pm
This is part of a REALLY interesting trend. First, disclosure: I?m an apple tech, I work with guys from apple, I have loads of macs at home, I love apple.
BUT, something very bad is happening.
The Mac platform has always had one up on the competition - they?ve always included amazing applications so it was a semi-pro machine right out of the box - but this change in iMovie is a move toward the PC model - you can?t really edit video unless you buy Final Cut - that is a very bad move for apple.
Also, take a close look a the new iMac - remind you of anything? It looks exactly like Dell flatscreens - and the desktop image in Leopard? Yep, looks like Vista - what is apple doing? They?re trying to blend in, so the Mac isn?t seen as ?standing out?. That?s actually what the guys who work at apple are saying.
They?ve always been the industry leader - but I watch them very closely and I see a very specific and intentional move toward copying the business model of the PC world. They hope this strategy will win them more mainstream acceptance, but I?m afraid it?s the beginning of a period where Apple is no longer the innovator?
As someone commented to me yesterday, it?s starting to seem like all the revolutionary product from Apple is just what Steve brought from NEXT - and that well is running dry.
? Posted by MacHead
There is only so much that can be done with a 2D desktop IMO - most of the new features in Leopard have done before, multiple desktops was done like 20 years ago with X11, Time Machine is similar in some ways to Shadow Volume Copy (Previous Versions) in Win2003/Vista. The improved Finder and Quick Look look good, but I dislike the current Finder to begin with, compared to Windows Explorer or KDE/Gnome, so anything was an improvement to me.
As far as Apple standing out, they do and don't for me; the white and aluminum casing styles were original a few years ago, but after awhile everything from Apple has that same sterile look, but they remind me nothing of Dell, HP, Gateway - those are primarily black cases, and the one company that has any real flair is Sony.
I don't think what Apple is doing is bad from a business standpoint, they're just becoming largely profit driven.
I don't know if this has been covered already but if iMovie is a brand new application with just the iMovie name, why is it still a carbon application and not a cocoa application?
Apple is starting to change it's business model to resemble that of microsoft .. make your free apps pretty basic ( crappy ) and offer better apps at a higher price. If this trend continues we will end up with two " microsofts " .. one in Redmond and another in Cupertino.
I wouldn't call the 79$ iWork a rip off. Excel is already looking like a dinosaur compared to Numbers. 79$ really is not an issue compared to the insane three digit price of Microsoft's Office suite!
Quote:
Originally Posted by newbee
Also, take a close look a the new iMac - remind you of anything? It looks exactly like Dell flatscreens
I did have several close looks at the new iMac and it does look stunning unlike the previous white brick. It is lightyears ahead of the current Dell look. It truly is a marvel with state of the art materials and textures.
Quote:
Originally Posted by newbee
- and the desktop image in Leopard? Yep, looks like Vista - what is apple doing?
For the record, Vista's menu bar is a shiny solid black bar on the bottom of the screen. Leopard does have a transparent menu bar at the top of the screen. The transparent menu bar is less pronounced as it is blending into your customised desktop picture. What is apple doing? Well, adding a little zen onto your clutter free desktop
Quote:
Originally Posted by newbee
They?re trying to blend in, so the Mac isn?t seen as ?standing out?. That?s actually what the guys who work at apple are saying.
"Blending things in" is not a bad idea from a Usability point of view. It creates a feeling of familiarity, putting people at ease and thus shortening the learning curve. And blending is not the same as copying. I think it is rather about making things accessible with a sting
Quote:
Originally Posted by newbee
They hope this strategy will win them more mainstream acceptance, but I?m afraid it?s the beginning of a period where Apple is no longer the innovator?
As someone commented to me yesterday, it?s starting to seem like all the revolutionary product from Apple is just what Steve brought from NEXT - and that well is running dry.
They just released the iPhone with a revolutionary touch screen interface! Enough said ?
By the way, I will freely and happily admit that I am somewhat beating a dead horse here, since the iMovie '08 ship has clearly sailed, and Apple will do with it as it sees fit.
Addabox, it is great to see how passionate you are about iMovie. It illustrates how iMovie 06 has become a genuine part of your creative life.
iMovie 08 is a new beginning. It is going to attract new people to the magic world of moving image. Only time will reveal the true ambition behind this seemingly draconian move.
...I don't think what Apple is doing is bad from a business standpoint, they're just becoming largely profit driven.
How is this different from any public company or from Apple in the past? Or, when has Apple not been profit driven? They have some of the highest margins in the business.
Addabox, it is great to see how passionate you are about iMovie. It illustrates how iMovie 06 has become a genuine part of your creative life.
iMovie 08 is a new beginning. It is going to attract new people to the magic world of moving image. Only time will reveal the true ambition behind this seemingly draconian move.
True enough. If Apple sees fit to restore some reasonable level of granular control over picture and sound (within some UI option that makes such control usable), on top of the quick access library and scrubbing feature, I will be the first to sing its praises.
Unfortunately, I don't think we can expect much in the way of functionality improvements before iMovie '09, and even then I would expect only a limited subset of what iMovie '06 could do.
While my objections are somewhat from a pragmatic user's perspective, my real concerns are more generally about what Apple considers a "simple" app.
One of the hallmarks of the Apple experience is the presentation of a simple default interface on top of more advanced functionality made discoverable via clever UI design. Dive right in, acquire new tools as your comfort level increases.
I don't think I've ever seen Apple produce a piece of software that simply skipped the "more advanced functionality made discoverable" part, which, given some of the imponderables of Apple's evolution into a CE company, sets off alarm bells, for me.
I don't know if this has been covered already but if iMovie is a brand new application with just the iMovie name, why is it still a carbon application and not a cocoa application?
I've used very version of iMovie from the very first and for the last few days I've been getting used to 08. I've also edited everything from weddings to videos of my daughter. I can see why people are upset with 08 if they've gotten used to HD or where really into advanced video or sound editing. The new version falls short, but I have to honestly say it is a heck of a lot easier and I think that's partly because of the new features, however, it would have been nicer if Apple had simply added those features over top of HD 06. Clearly they want people to buy FCE but with that same logic they should have dumbed down iPhoto and encourged people to buy Aperture, so there may be more going on that we may never know about. I will be using iMovie 08 but that's partly because it allows me, at least, to work more quickly and produce the videos faster and when you have kids that's what you want. Nobody cares about any special effects I've included in past movies; they just want to see the movies finished. I feel bad for those people who want to do more.
I would have to agree they really screwed up this time, I smell a lawsuit coming Apple's way.
America has to be the only country on earth where you can sue a company for a product you don't like.
I mean, for godsake, people should vote with their wallet and choose to not buy it. Not withstanding the fact that if people did buy it they would simply suffer disappointment, not financial or emotional loss.
How is this different from any public company or from Apple in the past? Or, when has Apple not been profit driven? They have some of the highest margins in the business.
The difference is .... in the past Apple has used increased quality to gain marketshare ..... now it would seem they are reducing quality to gain marketshare .... that's a MAJOR shift in Apple's philosophy, and IMHO a bad move.
The difference is .... in the past Apple has used increased quality to gain marketshare ..... now it would seem they are reducing quality to gain marketshare .... that's a MAJOR shift in Apple's philosophy, and IMHO a bad move.
Indeed my friend. That is exactly what Apple seems to be doing, and that is exactly what will alienate its existing user base.
There may well come a day when no one will be able to distinguish between a Mac and PC, either design wise or OS wise. Respective applications will all look and function similarly. Will this be a good thing just to gain a little market share? (if that actually works). Would you then advise a prospective buyer to choose a Mac over a PC? What reason would exist to choose one over the other?
Much of what made a consumer Mac the best solution out there for making 'proper' movies has now been lost with 'new' iMovie, and that is a dreadful pity IMHO.
I've come into this discussion far too late to read all 6 pages, but can iLife' 08 be installed without installing iMovie '08? Sounds like this would be the ideal.
The difference is .... in the past Apple has used increased quality to gain marketshare ..... now it would seem they are reducing quality to gain marketshare .... that's a MAJOR shift in Apple's philosophy, and IMHO a bad move.
They use hype, innovation, and the "coolness factor" to sell products. The loss in quality is a result of a) pushing the envelope to make a product as good looking as possible and b) a willingness to give up features to add cool new ones even if the new feature isn't as useful to everyone as the old.
Comments
A lot of people have remarked that one thing that iMovie '08 certainly has over '06 is simplicity. That '06 was "frustrating" or "hard to use".
Now, maybe it's just my familiarity with the earlier program, but it looks to me that to achieve what I can do in '08, I have to:
--Import my clips into the clip bin. This certainly take longer, and the real time stuff in '08 is welcome, but, if I click the "import" button I get the little finder mini-window and I can browse to whatever movie stuff I want. It isn't terribly complex, and '08 requires you to do the same thing, just not necessarily on a project to project basis. If it's a matter of importing camera footage, it's plug in the camera, watch iMovie launch and tell it to import.
--Drag the clips I want into the time line, in the order I want. Same as '08, right? If I need to use a clip more than once, I click on it to highlight it and copy and past. You know, like every other app on the mac. If I want, I can do that either in the clip bin or on the timeline. If I want to add a sound effect or music, I drag it from the "media" browser (pretty similar to the one in '08) onto the timeline. Drag it around to where I want it. See the image scrub while I do. See colored lines representing it. Highlight and delete, if I want. Command T again if I want to cut it somewhere and take out a chunk.
--Drag the playhead along the clip to see it play. Decide what part I want to use. Hit "split clip at playhead" to make a cut, or command T (oh no, a keyboard shortcut! I'm lost!) click on the unwanted portion to highlight it, and hit delete. This actually seems more straightforward, to me, than '08's little framing window with it's default length, although if the idea is you just want to have all 3 second clips it saves what, a keypress?
--Once I have clips in order and the length I want, I can clip that big "editing" button over there and see the tabs for "titles" and "transitions" Pick a style, just like '08. I can drag and drop my transitions, just like '08. See the results previewed, just like '08. If I find the idea of something scary like choosing the length of the transition to overwhelming, I can just go with the default-- just like '08, which fixes that confrontation with befuddlement by leaving out the choice. Again, the real time stuff is very welcome, no one likes to wait for transitions to render. But while that is "more boring" I still can't see how it is "more complex".
And now.... I choose how to export, with a button, just like '08! Nope, don't have a "send to You Tube button". Booooo, '06 sucks.
So......what am I missing? I think it's worth noting that to do the things that I am limited to in '08 in '06 the steps are pretty much the same. That is, '08 takes the very easiest way to use '06 and makes it mandatory. So is it the presence of "choices" lurking around that makes '06 such a show stopper for folks? If so, what does that say about Apple's plans for '08? I mean, if they start adding functionally, doesn't that get all crazy complicated and all? I mean, I guess they could put some stuff behind an "advanced tab". Hmmmmm.......
And, for my money, the layout of the '06 interface is actually much cleaner and easier to grasp its functionality than the new one, which is kind of a hodgepodge of windows and buttons with somewhat cryptic icons and no clear relationships.
Now, the one place where '08 has it all over '06 is the iPhoto style library of all your movie stuff right there in the browser, and if I was going to make a movie with bits and pieces of lots of stuff I had on my HDD, then yes, '08 is, well, at least much faster, and easier in the sense that I don't have to hunt around (up to a point-- if you have actually a great deal of footage it's going to be easier to do a finder style text based search anyway, to get what you want).
But if the big upside is that I get some footage of that dude who can, like, totally put an entire whole apple in his mouth, toss on some music, toss on a title or two, maybe stick a dissolve or something in there-- then I'm not seeing how it's actually less complicated to do that in '08 than in '06.
The way people talk about the barriers to entry in '06, what with its importing and copying and pasting and drag and drop and tabs to select functionality--- well, I can't help but think, wait, what, all of a sudden we can't use any Apple programs? Or is it just as soon as I put "movie" in there bone simple conventions that are used all over OS X become mystifying?
I was just curious about the ease of use question in this case, as I am in general. Because of being interested in computing, and interfaces, and shit.
I guess what I'm saying is, could we please just skip the "OMFG! Get over it!!!!! Loser!!!!!!" responses? Really, please, I'm happy to hear how '08 is easier, or how maybe the overall experience is just sort of more inviting, or whatever, from any given perspective.
But just defaulting to variations on "shut up, whiner" is so very dreary, and makes Addabox cranky, and doesn't really add anything, at this point.
I think the best that can be said is that the lack of features is the primary simplification of iMovie '08. If you're just starting out, and you're trying to figure something out, there's less stuff to wade through that you don't understand.
I can kind of see that, once you get the browser/library populated with all your footage.
But, again, I look at the default iMovie '06 work space. I see a place for clips, I see a timeline. I drag clips to timeline. I drag transitions to timeline.
It's true, I have to press a "clips" button see and drag clips, and an "editing" button to see and drag transitions, but is that really a lot to wade through?
Is the little yellow clip length window actually less confusing than scrubbing through your clip to where you want to make cuts and hitting the cut command?
One thing that occurs to me is that '06 sort of invites you to do a lot, so even if you decline and just use the defaults and most overt aspects of the UI, you still have a "sense" that it's more complicated than it is. Whereas since '08 makes sure that you can't do anything but the most overt stuff maybe there is a psychological effect of "less intimidating".
Which gets into some interesting UI stuff regarding discoverability. My understanding is that discoverability is how you offer depth without making the interface too horrendously complicated.
So, for instance, in a world processing program, you want to put the most frequently used tools right out there in the default interface where anyone can see and understand what they're for. But it really wouldn't be that great an idea to simply limit the tool set to what can be comfortably deployed within the standard window, so you strive to put less frequently used tools where they can be readily discovered-- as in not going more than two deep in a menu tree, or making sure that tool bar buttons that offer multiple choices indicate that graphically, somehow.
So what I'm having a hard time understanding is why a video editing program needs to be pretty much the simplest-by-way-of-constraining-the-tool-set app on the Mac?
I mean, iPhoto, brand new '08 iPhoto, is much more complicated than iMovie '08. It offers many more options for dealing with your media, editorially, organizationally, and presentationally. Garageband is vastly more complicated, requiring the user to understand the use of a timeline, meter, tempo, multiple tracks, loops, several different work spaces depending on what you're doing, etc.
But I don't here anyone yearning to see those apps brought into the realm of mere mortals by drastically limiting what they can do.
And Pages is Photoshop compared to iMovie, but surely no one would advocate for making the preset templates the only way you can do anything, so people won't get lost with options? Offering the templates, sure, that way anyone who doesn't want to mess with formatting can produce a pretty good looking letter, or whatever. But taking the formatting tools away? Obviously, a non-starter.
Maybe it's because we're such a visual culture, which increasingly means a moving image culture, so that the act of making and sharing moving images needs to more along the lines of texting-- the interface is practically invisible, but for what is intended formatting and editing options are actually liabilities. Media creation and sharing, for the average user, becomes entirely ad hoc and casual, and nearly in real time, so that the tools to manipulate media need to emphasize speed and transparency over any other criteria.
Still, even if Apple were to add a Twitter level text app, focused on getting that cumbersome email UI out of the way, you wouldn't expect them to replace Pages with it.
Another great feature of '08 that has not really been mentioned is its adjustments and transitions, etc, are not only instant, but non-destructive. You can always revert to the original form at any time, something that requires a lot of memory (not to mention time) in HD.
Agree completely. But the addition of things like real time adjustments and non-destructive editing is sort of a separate issue from the "iMovie had to shed features to make it easier to use" argument.
And just for the record, I think David Pogue's article is pretty much spot-on to the real situation, internal to Apple and out here on the fora.
The real test for Apple, I think, is how quickly this new iMovie develops into something that can match or beat HD in capability as well as ease of use.
Meelash: .... The only thing wrong with that logic is this:
It has already been stated by Steve Jobs that the driving force behind Imovie8 was ease of use, right? If that's his desire then, in order to make it " better " he has to make it even more simplistic to satisfy the u-tube crowd bcause to add more functionality would make it less easy and more like, I dunno, .....Imovie HD ? .. let's face it ... the only thing that makes sense is Apple is starting to change it's business model to resemble that of microsoft .. make your free apps pretty basic ( crappy ) and offer better apps at a higher price. If this trend continues we will end up with two " microsofts " .. one in Redmond and another in Cupertino.
P.S. I found this post on another discussion board and found it very interesting indeed, so FYI:
17th,
2007
1:14 pm
This is part of a REALLY interesting trend. First, disclosure: I’m an apple tech, I work with guys from apple, I have loads of macs at home, I love apple.
BUT, something very bad is happening.
The Mac platform has always had one up on the competition - they’ve always included amazing applications so it was a semi-pro machine right out of the box - but this change in iMovie is a move toward the PC model - you can’t really edit video unless you buy Final Cut - that is a very bad move for apple.
Also, take a close look a the new iMac - remind you of anything? It looks exactly like Dell flatscreens - and the desktop image in Leopard? Yep, looks like Vista - what is apple doing? They’re trying to blend in, so the Mac isn’t seen as “standing out”. That’s actually what the guys who work at apple are saying.
They’ve always been the industry leader - but I watch them very closely and I see a very specific and intentional move toward copying the business model of the PC world. They hope this strategy will win them more mainstream acceptance, but I’m afraid it’s the beginning of a period where Apple is no longer the innovator…
As someone commented to me yesterday, it’s starting to seem like all the revolutionary product from Apple is just what Steve brought from NEXT - and that well is running dry.
— Posted by MacHead
They DID. That's the whole point.
And just for the record, I think David Pogue's article is pretty much spot-on to the real situation, internal to Apple and out here on the fora.
The real test for Apple, I think, is how quickly this new iMovie develops into something that can match or beat HD in capability as well as ease of use.
Meelash: .... The only thing wrong with that logic is this:
It has already been stated by Steve Jobs that the driving force behind Imovie8 was ease of use, right? If that's his desire then, in order to make it " better " he has to make it even more simplistic to satisfy the u-tube crowd bcause to add more functionality would make it less easy and more like, I dunno, .....Imovie HD ? .. let's face it ... the only thing that makes sense is Apple is starting to change it's business model to resemble that of microsoft .. make your free apps pretty basic ( crappy ) and offer better apps at a higher price. If this trend continues we will end up with two " microsofts " .. one in Redmond and another in Cupertino.
P.S. I found this post on another discussion board and found it very interesting indeed, so FYI:
17th,
2007
1:14 pm
This is part of a REALLY interesting trend. First, disclosure: I?m an apple tech, I work with guys from apple, I have loads of macs at home, I love apple.
BUT, something very bad is happening.
The Mac platform has always had one up on the competition - they?ve always included amazing applications so it was a semi-pro machine right out of the box - but this change in iMovie is a move toward the PC model - you can?t really edit video unless you buy Final Cut - that is a very bad move for apple.
Also, take a close look a the new iMac - remind you of anything? It looks exactly like Dell flatscreens - and the desktop image in Leopard? Yep, looks like Vista - what is apple doing? They?re trying to blend in, so the Mac isn?t seen as ?standing out?. That?s actually what the guys who work at apple are saying.
They?ve always been the industry leader - but I watch them very closely and I see a very specific and intentional move toward copying the business model of the PC world. They hope this strategy will win them more mainstream acceptance, but I?m afraid it?s the beginning of a period where Apple is no longer the innovator?
As someone commented to me yesterday, it?s starting to seem like all the revolutionary product from Apple is just what Steve brought from NEXT - and that well is running dry.
? Posted by MacHead
There is only so much that can be done with a 2D desktop IMO - most of the new features in Leopard have done before, multiple desktops was done like 20 years ago with X11, Time Machine is similar in some ways to Shadow Volume Copy (Previous Versions) in Win2003/Vista. The improved Finder and Quick Look look good, but I dislike the current Finder to begin with, compared to Windows Explorer or KDE/Gnome, so anything was an improvement to me.
As far as Apple standing out, they do and don't for me; the white and aluminum casing styles were original a few years ago, but after awhile everything from Apple has that same sterile look, but they remind me nothing of Dell, HP, Gateway - those are primarily black cases, and the one company that has any real flair is Sony.
I don't think what Apple is doing is bad from a business standpoint, they're just becoming largely profit driven.
Just wondering....
Dave
Apple is starting to change it's business model to resemble that of microsoft .. make your free apps pretty basic ( crappy ) and offer better apps at a higher price. If this trend continues we will end up with two " microsofts " .. one in Redmond and another in Cupertino.
I wouldn't call the 79$ iWork a rip off. Excel is already looking like a dinosaur compared to Numbers. 79$ really is not an issue compared to the insane three digit price of Microsoft's Office suite!
Also, take a close look a the new iMac - remind you of anything? It looks exactly like Dell flatscreens
I did have several close looks at the new iMac and it does look stunning unlike the previous white brick. It is lightyears ahead of the current Dell look. It truly is a marvel with state of the art materials and textures.
- and the desktop image in Leopard? Yep, looks like Vista - what is apple doing?
For the record, Vista's menu bar is a shiny solid black bar on the bottom of the screen. Leopard does have a transparent menu bar at the top of the screen. The transparent menu bar is less pronounced as it is blending into your customised desktop picture. What is apple doing? Well, adding a little zen onto your clutter free desktop
They?re trying to blend in, so the Mac isn?t seen as ?standing out?. That?s actually what the guys who work at apple are saying.
"Blending things in" is not a bad idea from a Usability point of view. It creates a feeling of familiarity, putting people at ease and thus shortening the learning curve. And blending is not the same as copying. I think it is rather about making things accessible with a sting
They hope this strategy will win them more mainstream acceptance, but I?m afraid it?s the beginning of a period where Apple is no longer the innovator?
As someone commented to me yesterday, it?s starting to seem like all the revolutionary product from Apple is just what Steve brought from NEXT - and that well is running dry.
They just released the iPhone with a revolutionary touch screen interface! Enough said ?
By the way, I will freely and happily admit that I am somewhat beating a dead horse here, since the iMovie '08 ship has clearly sailed, and Apple will do with it as it sees fit.
Addabox, it is great to see how passionate you are about iMovie. It illustrates how iMovie 06 has become a genuine part of your creative life.
iMovie 08 is a new beginning. It is going to attract new people to the magic world of moving image. Only time will reveal the true ambition behind this seemingly draconian move.
...I don't think what Apple is doing is bad from a business standpoint, they're just becoming largely profit driven.
How is this different from any public company or from Apple in the past? Or, when has Apple not been profit driven? They have some of the highest margins in the business.
Addabox, it is great to see how passionate you are about iMovie. It illustrates how iMovie 06 has become a genuine part of your creative life.
iMovie 08 is a new beginning. It is going to attract new people to the magic world of moving image. Only time will reveal the true ambition behind this seemingly draconian move.
True enough. If Apple sees fit to restore some reasonable level of granular control over picture and sound (within some UI option that makes such control usable), on top of the quick access library and scrubbing feature, I will be the first to sing its praises.
Unfortunately, I don't think we can expect much in the way of functionality improvements before iMovie '09, and even then I would expect only a limited subset of what iMovie '06 could do.
While my objections are somewhat from a pragmatic user's perspective, my real concerns are more generally about what Apple considers a "simple" app.
One of the hallmarks of the Apple experience is the presentation of a simple default interface on top of more advanced functionality made discoverable via clever UI design. Dive right in, acquire new tools as your comfort level increases.
I don't think I've ever seen Apple produce a piece of software that simply skipped the "more advanced functionality made discoverable" part, which, given some of the imponderables of Apple's evolution into a CE company, sets off alarm bells, for me.
I don't know if this has been covered already but if iMovie is a brand new application with just the iMovie name, why is it still a carbon application and not a cocoa application?
Just wondering....
Dave
Good question.
I would have to agree they really screwed up this time, I smell a lawsuit coming Apple's way.
America has to be the only country on earth where you can sue a company for a product you don't like.
I mean, for godsake, people should vote with their wallet and choose to not buy it. Not withstanding the fact that if people did buy it they would simply suffer disappointment, not financial or emotional loss.
How is this different from any public company or from Apple in the past? Or, when has Apple not been profit driven? They have some of the highest margins in the business.
The difference is .... in the past Apple has used increased quality to gain marketshare ..... now it would seem they are reducing quality to gain marketshare .... that's a MAJOR shift in Apple's philosophy, and IMHO a bad move.
The difference is .... in the past Apple has used increased quality to gain marketshare ..... now it would seem they are reducing quality to gain marketshare .... that's a MAJOR shift in Apple's philosophy, and IMHO a bad move.
Indeed my friend. That is exactly what Apple seems to be doing, and that is exactly what will alienate its existing user base.
There may well come a day when no one will be able to distinguish between a Mac and PC, either design wise or OS wise. Respective applications will all look and function similarly. Will this be a good thing just to gain a little market share? (if that actually works). Would you then advise a prospective buyer to choose a Mac over a PC? What reason would exist to choose one over the other?
Much of what made a consumer Mac the best solution out there for making 'proper' movies has now been lost with 'new' iMovie, and that is a dreadful pity IMHO.
One step forward, two steps back.
The difference is .... in the past Apple has used increased quality to gain marketshare ..... now it would seem they are reducing quality to gain marketshare .... that's a MAJOR shift in Apple's philosophy, and IMHO a bad move.
They use hype, innovation, and the "coolness factor" to sell products. The loss in quality is a result of a) pushing the envelope to make a product as good looking as possible and b) a willingness to give up features to add cool new ones even if the new feature isn't as useful to everyone as the old.