I don't know how far back it goes but my first mac purchase was a purple, if you can believe it, imac (6 gig h.d.) and I think that was about maybe 10 years or so ago and Appleworks was always included, free, much like I-life is now. That practice seems to have been stopped with the introduction of intel chips. I would hate to think that Apple has forgotten what made it special in the first place ... but who knows ... Apple has made dumb moves before ... thank God not many. We'll see.
AppleWorks was not included on my 12" G4 PB or my brother's 17" PB. It was not available for free download either, I believe I actually bought it for about the same as iWorks now costs. Maybe 69.99. And my old IIci didn't come with any word processing package included either.
And, I can double check this, but I'm pretty sure there's nothing to stop AppleWorks from running fine on an Intel machine.
Point #1 In your first sentence you say " Apple well- managed the expectations of the Customers by renaming the new product " In your second sentenced you say The iMovie '08 issue (while having the similarity you refer to) arose due to the clearly allowed impression (by keeping the app name the same) ... so ... my question to you is. Which is it ? New name or not ?
Point #2 Just because a crappy, by most accounts, piece of software " renames the new product (thus avoiding too-much in the way of assumed features) and by showing clearly what it did do well, that does not make it a better piece of software.
Point #3 Perhaps I was too subtle for you in my original post. Let me try again.IMO the downward quality support trend of Apple's free included software, first Appleworks and now Imovie suggests to me that a dangerous mindset is starting to rear its ugly head over at Apple Inc. I hope that I am wrong but I fear that the arrogant attitude of a few years ago may be repeated with the same disasterous results. Please do not let that happen by not listening to all voices.
Apologies, I should have been a little clearer: the 'well-managed expectations' was referring to the name change that Pages had over AppleWorks; the 'not-well-managed expectations' was with iMovie '08 as the name is 'the same' as its predecessor (ie. merely moved on in version number).
Overall, I am suggesting that while Apple has made a mistake over this iMovie '08 issue, we should not see it out of proportion and that it is some sort of sign of arrogance that pervades everything they are now doing/about to do. Moreover, these forums are hopefully seen by Apple folks and if so, they provide some 'calibration' of thinking that will (I hope) be useful in influencing Apple's future decisions. If they fix the iMovie '08 issue in a timely way, problem solved, no big deal.
I attended the WWDC in June there. There are loads of new programming things coming in Leopard that will allow software to run dramatically better on multi-core systems. I would assume that in order to benefit from these many apps need major overhauls. It's likely Apple needs to showcase the capabilities by proving them with its own software. It's likely that iMovie needed a major overhaul and engineering simply ran out of time to finish the product. They've had one hell of a year this year. I don't think anyone can deny how hard they've worked.
With any luck we will see the full feature set restored over the next 6-12 months BUT with all the new multi-core enhancements. Good things come to those who wait!
I'm not sure of the wages that are being paid but according to Steve Jobs in his presentation the reason for Imovie8 was because one engineer couldn't figure out how to make a vacation movie in under 15 minutes using Imovie HD or FCP. ...If that's their new research dept.... I think wer'e in trouble ...
Few of us could figure out how to make a movie in under 15 minutes when iMovie was first released, though as with most new things, a bit of practice and patience brings reward. We all taught ourselves to use the application and it had grown into a highly useful and intuitive piece of software. Now it looks like we are slipping backwards. Damn, I thought I would never say this, but Movie Maker is looking a little sweeter day by day \
Apple of late seem to be losing their sense of direction with a few things, this being one of them. We may just be in trouble though it's never too late Steve...
Few of us could figure out how to make a movie in under 15 minutes when iMovie was first released, though as with most new things, a bit of practice and patience brings reward. We all taught ourselves to use the application and it had grown into a highly useful and intuitive piece of software. Now it looks like we are slipping backwards. Damn, I thought I would never say this, but Movie Maker is looking a little sweeter day by day \
Apple of late seem to be losing their sense of direction with a few things, this being one of them. We may just be in trouble though it's never too late Steve...
My brother just tried to make a movie in iMovie '06 and was very frustrated. He is a new mac user and has never done video. He cranked out a nice movie in a few minutes with '08.
I think Apple has done a good job with a complete overhaul and iMovie people should probably move to FCE. I am not being harsh, just factual based on Apple's recent move and the experiences of my brother and family with iMovie.
My brother just tried to make a movie in iMovie '06 and was very frustrated. He is a new mac user and has never done video. He cranked out a nice movie in a few minutes with '08.
I think Apple has done a good job with a complete overhaul and iMovie people should probably move to FCE. I am not being harsh, just factual based on Apple's recent move and the experiences of my brother and family with iMovie.
One of the things I most like doing with iMovie is making short videos for the songs I do in GarageBand. To do this, I end up doing a lot of editing to get clips to sync with the music, as well as a lot of video effects (which are just fine when used in the right context and not over done). For this, I always use the timeline view. I also end up trimming clips a lot, something I still haven't figured out in iMovie 08. This is just for my own use. I'm not doing it professionally. If iMovie HD stops working, I can't justify dropping $300.00 on a piece of software for this. I'll just stop doing it, and I would find that very disappointing.
Apologies, I should have been a little clearer: the 'well-managed expectations' was referring to the name change that Pages had over AppleWorks; the 'not-well-managed expectations' was with iMovie '08 as the name is 'the same' as its predecessor (ie. merely moved on in version number).
Overall, I am suggesting that while Apple has made a mistake over this iMovie '08 issue, we should not see it out of proportion and that it is some sort of sign of arrogance that pervades everything they are now doing/about to do. Moreover, these forums are hopefully seen by Apple folks and if so, they provide some 'calibration' of thinking that will (I hope) be useful in influencing Apple's future decisions. If they fix the iMovie '08 issue in a timely way, problem solved, no big deal.
Thanks for the clarification re: name change. You're right, " If they fix the iMovie '08 issue in a timely way, problem solved, no big deal." The thing is, I'm 65 years old and I guess that I get a little paranoid when I see " history repeat itself " How they handled Appleworks v.s. Pages is very similar to what SEEMS to be going on with Imovie HD and Final Cut Pro / Express, that is, forcing us to move over to a paid for application instead of a free one by "dumbing down the free one. "
I suppose there is nothing wrong with that business model except that it's getting very close to what microsoft has done for years. I liked it better when microsoft copied us instead of us copying them, that's all.
I attended the WWDC in June there. There are loads of new programming things coming in Leopard that will allow software to run dramatically better on multi-core systems. I would assume that in order to benefit from these many apps need major overhauls. It's likely Apple needs to showcase the capabilities by proving them with its own software. It's likely that iMovie needed a major overhaul and engineering simply ran out of time to finish the product. They've had one hell of a year this year. I don't think anyone can deny how hard they've worked.
With any luck we will see the full feature set restored over the next 6-12 months BUT with all the new multi-core enhancements. Good things come to those who wait!
I suppose you're right but it seems to me that it would take MORE time to write a completly new app than to simply improve an existing one. In any case, why would they not just include Imovie8 as an additional app, call it " Imovie for Dummies" or something. The fact that they chose to eliminate Imovie HD completely, I think, speaks volumes for their intentions. Perhaps I'm just being overly paranoid but you know what they say, " Just because you're paranoid doesn't mean there is no one following you."
You missed the point I was making. If it is not ok to buy 5 computers and get 4, then why is it ok to buy a suite of 5 applications and only get 4?
Yeah I get what you're saying. But you did get all the applications..
Quote:
Originally Posted by addabox
Motion didn't replace another program that could already do more. FCP didn't replace another program that could already do more. iPhoto didn't replace a previous iPhoto that could already do more. And none them replaced anything with a completely different design philosophy that clearly favors speed and "no brainer" over precision and care.
Thinking that certain features will get added suggests that Apple left them out "by accident" rather than "by design".
Did you even read what I wrote? I said the program will be optimized, not that it's replacing a program that could already do more. Read before you write please.
Quote:
Originally Posted by steviet02
Jim,
There is a need to complain or they don't get the message. I've already sent in my feedback to Apple, and I actually wasn't complaining about the product on the board, I was pointing out that the practice of poking fun at MS for leaving users behind was now staring them in the face (ala iMovie 7 won't work on a G4).
This was so avoidable on their part....
I agree with you, but what I meant was that complaining on this board to each other won't get anyone anywhere. Apple takes feedback really seriously, so people that are complaining to User_x here on AppleInsider are directing their energy the wrong way.
Look, I get it. You don't understand why anyone would ever have misgivings about the direction a platform is taking, as evidenced by the quality of the apps, because you're one of those horrible little Apple sycophants who thinks the appropriate relationship of customer to vendor is one of worshipful gratitude.
I've been using Macs for over 20 years, it is my platform of choice, I care about the direction Apple takes. Most of what they do I like a lot, some of it is so-so, and very occasionally they do something really inexplicable, that causes me concern for the trends within the company.
So when that happens, I will fucking well bellyache about it on a fucking mac discussion board, and I don't want to listen some patronizing asshole start holding forth about how everything is hunky dory in candy fucking colored Apple land and everybody who thinks otherwise just needs to just STFU already so you can get back to your mindless cheerleading.
OK?
You are disgusting.
See what I did there? I made a comment about you that has no basis, because I don't know you. Think that's unfair? Yeah it is, and you just did the same thing to that guy that commented above.
Personally I think you're getting way to heated over this. Once you start swearing & the conversation deteriorates to high-school level, it's time to leave your computer for some fresh air. Hop outside, take a walk and calm down, because you aren't getting anywhere by calling someone a 'patronizing asshole'. No matter how much you don't like his comment, there's no need to do that.
Also, you don't want to take his opinion, fine. Fair enough, but don't start patronizing him right back, you're just being hypocritical.
Finally, don't flame me for writing this, I'm merely pointing out that this is, as you mentioned, a discussion board, it's not a battlefield. We're all here because we are Mac users, not because we want to damage someone mentally for life. I'll listen to your comments just like I'll listen to his, I'm interested in hearing different views. But I will enter the discussion to point out what I think is wrong. I'm no mod, but I hate seeing hate. Mmmmkay?
So if you don't like something, make your comment known, but let's not start attacking each other here, there's enough of that happening already in Iraq.
My brother just tried to make a movie in iMovie '06 and was very frustrated. He is a new mac user and has never done video. He cranked out a nice movie in a few minutes with '08.
I think Apple has done a good job with a complete overhaul and iMovie people should probably move to FCE. I am not being harsh, just factual based on Apple's recent move and the experiences of my brother and family with iMovie.
I'm sorry for you're brother's frustration with Imovie '06. I had the same level of frustration when I made my first, and so far only, movie with imovie '06. However, because I've experienced that same level of frustration many times learning any new app. I stuck with it and wound up with a movie that so exceeded my expectations that the first thing everybody says when they see it is : "What software are you using" ? ...... I even have a windows user friend that was so impressed because the paid for software she uses can't " do that. " ....... When I told her the software came free with all mac computers she was blown away. She is going to buy a mac in October When Leopard becomes available.
You make my point when you say ... " iMovie people should probably move to FCE." I may be wrong but I don't think that if my FIRST movie making experience was with Imovie '08, I would EVER consider moving over to FCP/FCPE because they are soooo different. .....Im just not convinced this is a smart move for Apple, sorry.
I used iMovie 6 for a long time and loved the cool video effects features. With iMovie '08, all of those features are gone and it's a lot more difficult to edit and fine-tune audio and video. However, it is much easier to make a 5-minute movie in a few minutes. iMovie '08 seems to be the dumbed-down version of iMovie. Good thing I still have iMovie 6 on my mac.
See what I did there? I made a comment about you that has no basis, because I don't know you. Think that's unfair? Yeah it is, and you just did the same thing to that guy that commented above.
Personally I think you're getting way to heated over this. Once you start swearing & the conversation deteriorates to high-school level, it's time to leave your computer for some fresh air. Hop outside, take a walk and calm down, because you aren't getting anywhere by calling someone a 'patronizing asshole'. No matter how much you don't like his comment, there's no need to do that.
Also, you don't want to take his opinion, fine. Fair enough, but don't start patronizing him right back, you're just being hypocritical.
Finally, don't flame me for writing this, I'm merely pointing out that this is, as you mentioned, a discussion board, it's not a battlefield. We're all here because we are Mac users, not because we want to damage someone mentally for life. I'll listen to your comments just like I'll listen to his, I'm interested in hearing different views. But I will enter the discussion to point out what I think is wrong. I'm no mod, but I hate seeing hate. Mmmmkay?
So if you don't like something, make your comment known, but let's not start attacking each other here, there's enough of that happening already in Iraq.
Jimzip
Sorry if you don't like my tone, that's between you and your sensibilities.
If you look back over the thread, you'll notice a dynamic: a lot of people sort of horrified by the new iMovie, talking about the features that have gone missing and what it means for their particular situation, and speculating as to what this "means", in terms of where Apple is going with its consumer apps. And, of course, it's not just here: Mac forums the web over, including Apple's own discussion site, more or less exploded with exactly this kind of talk as soon as they got a look at it.
Now, notice that most of this doesn't involve any particular characterization of the people who think iMovie '08 is the bomb. I and others have talked about feeling that it is "dumbed down", but that's an observation about the software, not its defenders.
But for the most part, the tone is generally "I think it's fine if it works for you, but here's why it doesn't work for me."
And the response? Shut up. Stop whining. You haven't even used it, you don't know what you're talking about. You people are babies. You people are greedy adolescents. What's the problem with sticking with iMovie '06, again? It's right there in your folder, stupid. God all mighty, you whiny titty ass babies will never be satisfied, no matter what Apple does. Don't buy it then. Get FCE and stop trying to use iMovie for what it is no longer for. Of course Apple will fix it pretty soon, you impatient, demanding twit.
All of it served up with a pretty aggressive tone of attack, on the character of anyone who would express dismay.
Right? Pretty undeniable, really.
So at some point, when someone wants to get really explicit on the subject of why explaining how the new iMovie doesn't work for a given user is, in fact, a character flaw, then yes, I will unload, and I don't really care about the tender sensibilities of all those folks who had no problem snorting derisively at the (obviously delusional, self involved, petty, adolescent) folks who expressed an opinion about a piece of Apple software on an Apple discussion board.
If I get too emphatic, the mods will let me know. Perhaps I've earned a bit of leeway by being a member of these boards for quite a while. If I kept on in that tone, I'd for sure hear about it, but either way, it's my choice how loud to yell, when I think a pervasive tone has gone on long enough.
My largest complaint with iMovie '08 is the fugly icon. It doesn't blend in with the other Apple icons at all. Looks like it was just a placeholder icon during development that they forgot to replace.
Thank you so much for saying that! When I watched the video after thinking "cool new app," my next thought wash who wants that fugly icon on their desktop?
Few of us could figure out how to make a movie in under 15 minutes when iMovie was first released, though as with most new things, a bit of practice and patience brings reward.
What are you saying? That since you had to take a long time to learn to make movies, it's not fair that someone else should be able to just jump in and start in 15 minutes?
Goddamn people have it so easy these days! They should make people program in assembly language like we had to do in the good old days. It's much more efficient and powerful anyways!
Oh, I forgot to say, Group 1 normally tries to explain away their defensiveness by inventing extra but unnecessary and inappropriate Groups that are either the same as Group 1 or support Group 1 behaviour.
And Group 1 also (incorrectly) tries to suggest that:
Group 3 don't appreciate Apple's tremendous inventiveness in developing paradigm-shifting software (e.g. in video editing), or that
Group 3 reject all of something just because they don't like part of it, as a way of suggesting that Group 1 (aka 4) are the only true ones that count as friends of Apple (classic Group 1).
Typical Group 5
All I can say is, thank God Apple doesn't listen to all of these complainers who can't stand anything changing. Don't you realize that's exactly what's wrong with Microsoft? Every time they try to make a big change in their software they have about 9 jillion people bellyaching about how they have to relearn this and that and change their workflows, etc. And MS listens to them, and as a result has these monstrous legacy coded apps, and are afraid to ever do anything revolutionary.
Apple fortunately, when they see that it's time to scratch out and start afresh, they've shown again and again, they're willing to do it. And in spite of all of the "Apple teh screwed us over" "WTF Apple !!11!!" comments on these boards, they keep showing that it is better in the long run to ignore such short-sighted people (well, maybe not completely ignore them, we'll let them download iMovie '06, maybe it'll shut some of up).
Sometimes it hurts to make major corrections late in the game. However, it's got to be done, and the longer it's put off, the harder it is. That's why I don't envy any MS executive or software developer their position.
All I can say is, thank God Apple doesn't listen to all of these complainers who can't stand anything changing. Don't you realize that's exactly what's wrong with Microsoft? Every time they try to make a big change in their software they have about 9 jillion people bellyaching about how they have to relearn this and that and change their workflows, etc. And MS listens to them, and as a result has these monstrous legacy coded apps, and are afraid to ever do anything revolutionary.
Apple fortunately, when they see that it's time to scratch out and start afresh, they've shown again and again, they're willing to do it. And in spite of all of the "Apple teh screwed us over" "WTF Apple !!11!!" comments on these boards, they keep showing that it is better in the long run to ignore such short-sighted people (well, maybe not completely ignore them, we'll let them download iMovie '06, maybe it'll shut some of up).
Sometimes it hurts to make major corrections late in the game. However, it's got to be done, and the longer it's put off, the harder it is. That's why I don't envy any MS executive or software developer their position.
Sigh.
I'm trying to figure out how anyone that isn't just actually going out of their way to be a dick can read this thread and decide that the people who don't like the new iMovie don't like it because "they can't stand anything changing".
Maybe you just missed all the posts from people who, despite their very specific concerns about very specific loss of functionality, welcomed and applauded a lot of the new features? You know, the ones that went something like "I think it would have been great if they had made the new iMovie just as they did, but not taken out so many tools. Maybe an 'advanced' tab, or something"?
In fact, pretty much the only people being specific in this thread are the people with complaints. Some of the "stop your bellyaching" posts (like, well, yours) are so pro forma and generic, they seem to be little more than a reflexive response. "Someone-complaining-about-Apple-must-belittle-them-for-whining.......beep."
So it's nice and all to talk about clean slate thinking and taking risks and being willing to alienate the (embittered and hidebound, apparently) few for the glorious new future, but it's really not clear at all what that has to do with, say, making it so you can't adjust the volume of a clip within the clip.
Maybe you could explain which crusty old assumptions were being tossed aside here, and how such tossing clears the deck for the new hotness?
Comments
I don't know how far back it goes but my first mac purchase was a purple, if you can believe it, imac (6 gig h.d.) and I think that was about maybe 10 years or so ago and Appleworks was always included, free, much like I-life is now. That practice seems to have been stopped with the introduction of intel chips. I would hate to think that Apple has forgotten what made it special in the first place ... but who knows ... Apple has made dumb moves before ... thank God not many. We'll see.
AppleWorks was not included on my 12" G4 PB or my brother's 17" PB. It was not available for free download either, I believe I actually bought it for about the same as iWorks now costs. Maybe 69.99. And my old IIci didn't come with any word processing package included either.
And, I can double check this, but I'm pretty sure there's nothing to stop AppleWorks from running fine on an Intel machine.
Point #1 In your first sentence you say " Apple well- managed the expectations of the Customers by renaming the new product " In your second sentenced you say The iMovie '08 issue (while having the similarity you refer to) arose due to the clearly allowed impression (by keeping the app name the same) ... so ... my question to you is. Which is it ? New name or not ?
Point #2 Just because a crappy, by most accounts, piece of software " renames the new product (thus avoiding too-much in the way of assumed features) and by showing clearly what it did do well, that does not make it a better piece of software.
Point #3 Perhaps I was too subtle for you in my original post. Let me try again.IMO the downward quality support trend of Apple's free included software, first Appleworks and now Imovie suggests to me that a dangerous mindset is starting to rear its ugly head over at Apple Inc. I hope that I am wrong but I fear that the arrogant attitude of a few years ago may be repeated with the same disasterous results. Please do not let that happen by not listening to all voices.
Apologies, I should have been a little clearer: the 'well-managed expectations' was referring to the name change that Pages had over AppleWorks; the 'not-well-managed expectations' was with iMovie '08 as the name is 'the same' as its predecessor (ie. merely moved on in version number).
Overall, I am suggesting that while Apple has made a mistake over this iMovie '08 issue, we should not see it out of proportion and that it is some sort of sign of arrogance that pervades everything they are now doing/about to do. Moreover, these forums are hopefully seen by Apple folks and if so, they provide some 'calibration' of thinking that will (I hope) be useful in influencing Apple's future decisions. If they fix the iMovie '08 issue in a timely way, problem solved, no big deal.
With any luck we will see the full feature set restored over the next 6-12 months BUT with all the new multi-core enhancements. Good things come to those who wait!
I'm not sure of the wages that are being paid but according to Steve Jobs in his presentation the reason for Imovie8 was because one engineer couldn't figure out how to make a vacation movie in under 15 minutes using Imovie HD or FCP. ...If that's their new research dept.... I think wer'e in trouble ...
Few of us could figure out how to make a movie in under 15 minutes when iMovie was first released, though as with most new things, a bit of practice and patience brings reward. We all taught ourselves to use the application and it had grown into a highly useful and intuitive piece of software. Now it looks like we are slipping backwards. Damn, I thought I would never say this, but Movie Maker is looking a little sweeter day by day
Apple of late seem to be losing their sense of direction with a few things, this being one of them. We may just be in trouble though it's never too late Steve...
Few of us could figure out how to make a movie in under 15 minutes when iMovie was first released, though as with most new things, a bit of practice and patience brings reward. We all taught ourselves to use the application and it had grown into a highly useful and intuitive piece of software. Now it looks like we are slipping backwards. Damn, I thought I would never say this, but Movie Maker is looking a little sweeter day by day
Apple of late seem to be losing their sense of direction with a few things, this being one of them. We may just be in trouble though it's never too late Steve...
My brother just tried to make a movie in iMovie '06 and was very frustrated. He is a new mac user and has never done video. He cranked out a nice movie in a few minutes with '08.
I think Apple has done a good job with a complete overhaul and iMovie people should probably move to FCE. I am not being harsh, just factual based on Apple's recent move and the experiences of my brother and family with iMovie.
My brother just tried to make a movie in iMovie '06 and was very frustrated. He is a new mac user and has never done video. He cranked out a nice movie in a few minutes with '08.
I think Apple has done a good job with a complete overhaul and iMovie people should probably move to FCE. I am not being harsh, just factual based on Apple's recent move and the experiences of my brother and family with iMovie.
One of the things I most like doing with iMovie is making short videos for the songs I do in GarageBand. To do this, I end up doing a lot of editing to get clips to sync with the music, as well as a lot of video effects (which are just fine when used in the right context and not over done). For this, I always use the timeline view. I also end up trimming clips a lot, something I still haven't figured out in iMovie 08. This is just for my own use. I'm not doing it professionally. If iMovie HD stops working, I can't justify dropping $300.00 on a piece of software for this. I'll just stop doing it, and I would find that very disappointing.
Apologies, I should have been a little clearer: the 'well-managed expectations' was referring to the name change that Pages had over AppleWorks; the 'not-well-managed expectations' was with iMovie '08 as the name is 'the same' as its predecessor (ie. merely moved on in version number).
Overall, I am suggesting that while Apple has made a mistake over this iMovie '08 issue, we should not see it out of proportion and that it is some sort of sign of arrogance that pervades everything they are now doing/about to do. Moreover, these forums are hopefully seen by Apple folks and if so, they provide some 'calibration' of thinking that will (I hope) be useful in influencing Apple's future decisions. If they fix the iMovie '08 issue in a timely way, problem solved, no big deal.
Thanks for the clarification re: name change. You're right, " If they fix the iMovie '08 issue in a timely way, problem solved, no big deal." The thing is, I'm 65 years old and I guess that I get a little paranoid when I see " history repeat itself " How they handled Appleworks v.s. Pages is very similar to what SEEMS to be going on with Imovie HD and Final Cut Pro / Express, that is, forcing us to move over to a paid for application instead of a free one by "dumbing down the free one. "
I suppose there is nothing wrong with that business model except that it's getting very close to what microsoft has done for years. I liked it better when microsoft copied us instead of us copying them, that's all.
I attended the WWDC in June there. There are loads of new programming things coming in Leopard that will allow software to run dramatically better on multi-core systems. I would assume that in order to benefit from these many apps need major overhauls. It's likely Apple needs to showcase the capabilities by proving them with its own software. It's likely that iMovie needed a major overhaul and engineering simply ran out of time to finish the product. They've had one hell of a year this year. I don't think anyone can deny how hard they've worked.
With any luck we will see the full feature set restored over the next 6-12 months BUT with all the new multi-core enhancements. Good things come to those who wait!
I suppose you're right but it seems to me that it would take MORE time to write a completly new app than to simply improve an existing one. In any case, why would they not just include Imovie8 as an additional app, call it " Imovie for Dummies" or something. The fact that they chose to eliminate Imovie HD completely, I think, speaks volumes for their intentions. Perhaps I'm just being overly paranoid but you know what they say, " Just because you're paranoid doesn't mean there is no one following you."
You missed the point I was making. If it is not ok to buy 5 computers and get 4, then why is it ok to buy a suite of 5 applications and only get 4?
Yeah I get what you're saying. But you did get all the applications..
Motion didn't replace another program that could already do more. FCP didn't replace another program that could already do more. iPhoto didn't replace a previous iPhoto that could already do more. And none them replaced anything with a completely different design philosophy that clearly favors speed and "no brainer" over precision and care.
Thinking that certain features will get added suggests that Apple left them out "by accident" rather than "by design".
Did you even read what I wrote? I said the program will be optimized, not that it's replacing a program that could already do more. Read before you write please.
Jim,
There is a need to complain or they don't get the message. I've already sent in my feedback to Apple, and I actually wasn't complaining about the product on the board, I was pointing out that the practice of poking fun at MS for leaving users behind was now staring them in the face (ala iMovie 7 won't work on a G4).
This was so avoidable on their part....
I agree with you, but what I meant was that complaining on this board to each other won't get anyone anywhere. Apple takes feedback really seriously, so people that are complaining to User_x here on AppleInsider are directing their energy the wrong way.
That's all!
Jimzip
Look, I get it. You don't understand why anyone would ever have misgivings about the direction a platform is taking, as evidenced by the quality of the apps, because you're one of those horrible little Apple sycophants who thinks the appropriate relationship of customer to vendor is one of worshipful gratitude.
I've been using Macs for over 20 years, it is my platform of choice, I care about the direction Apple takes. Most of what they do I like a lot, some of it is so-so, and very occasionally they do something really inexplicable, that causes me concern for the trends within the company.
So when that happens, I will fucking well bellyache about it on a fucking mac discussion board, and I don't want to listen some patronizing asshole start holding forth about how everything is hunky dory in candy fucking colored Apple land and everybody who thinks otherwise just needs to just STFU already so you can get back to your mindless cheerleading.
OK?
You are disgusting.
See what I did there? I made a comment about you that has no basis, because I don't know you. Think that's unfair? Yeah it is, and you just did the same thing to that guy that commented above.
Personally I think you're getting way to heated over this. Once you start swearing & the conversation deteriorates to high-school level, it's time to leave your computer for some fresh air. Hop outside, take a walk and calm down, because you aren't getting anywhere by calling someone a 'patronizing asshole'. No matter how much you don't like his comment, there's no need to do that.
Also, you don't want to take his opinion, fine. Fair enough, but don't start patronizing him right back, you're just being hypocritical.
Finally, don't flame me for writing this, I'm merely pointing out that this is, as you mentioned, a discussion board, it's not a battlefield. We're all here because we are Mac users, not because we want to damage someone mentally for life. I'll listen to your comments just like I'll listen to his, I'm interested in hearing different views. But I will enter the discussion to point out what I think is wrong. I'm no mod, but I hate seeing hate. Mmmmkay?
So if you don't like something, make your comment known, but let's not start attacking each other here, there's enough of that happening already in Iraq.
Jimzip
My brother just tried to make a movie in iMovie '06 and was very frustrated. He is a new mac user and has never done video. He cranked out a nice movie in a few minutes with '08.
I think Apple has done a good job with a complete overhaul and iMovie people should probably move to FCE. I am not being harsh, just factual based on Apple's recent move and the experiences of my brother and family with iMovie.
I'm sorry for you're brother's frustration with Imovie '06. I had the same level of frustration when I made my first, and so far only, movie with imovie '06. However, because I've experienced that same level of frustration many times learning any new app. I stuck with it and wound up with a movie that so exceeded my expectations that the first thing everybody says when they see it is : "What software are you using" ? ...... I even have a windows user friend that was so impressed because the paid for software she uses can't " do that. " ....... When I told her the software came free with all mac computers she was blown away. She is going to buy a mac in October When Leopard becomes available.
You make my point when you say ... " iMovie people should probably move to FCE." I may be wrong but I don't think that if my FIRST movie making experience was with Imovie '08, I would EVER consider moving over to FCP/FCPE because they are soooo different. .....Im just not convinced this is a smart move for Apple, sorry.
You are disgusting.
See what I did there? I made a comment about you that has no basis, because I don't know you. Think that's unfair? Yeah it is, and you just did the same thing to that guy that commented above.
Personally I think you're getting way to heated over this. Once you start swearing & the conversation deteriorates to high-school level, it's time to leave your computer for some fresh air. Hop outside, take a walk and calm down, because you aren't getting anywhere by calling someone a 'patronizing asshole'. No matter how much you don't like his comment, there's no need to do that.
Also, you don't want to take his opinion, fine. Fair enough, but don't start patronizing him right back, you're just being hypocritical.
Finally, don't flame me for writing this, I'm merely pointing out that this is, as you mentioned, a discussion board, it's not a battlefield. We're all here because we are Mac users, not because we want to damage someone mentally for life. I'll listen to your comments just like I'll listen to his, I'm interested in hearing different views. But I will enter the discussion to point out what I think is wrong. I'm no mod, but I hate seeing hate. Mmmmkay?
So if you don't like something, make your comment known, but let's not start attacking each other here, there's enough of that happening already in Iraq.
Jimzip
Sorry if you don't like my tone, that's between you and your sensibilities.
If you look back over the thread, you'll notice a dynamic: a lot of people sort of horrified by the new iMovie, talking about the features that have gone missing and what it means for their particular situation, and speculating as to what this "means", in terms of where Apple is going with its consumer apps. And, of course, it's not just here: Mac forums the web over, including Apple's own discussion site, more or less exploded with exactly this kind of talk as soon as they got a look at it.
Now, notice that most of this doesn't involve any particular characterization of the people who think iMovie '08 is the bomb. I and others have talked about feeling that it is "dumbed down", but that's an observation about the software, not its defenders.
But for the most part, the tone is generally "I think it's fine if it works for you, but here's why it doesn't work for me."
And the response? Shut up. Stop whining. You haven't even used it, you don't know what you're talking about. You people are babies. You people are greedy adolescents. What's the problem with sticking with iMovie '06, again? It's right there in your folder, stupid. God all mighty, you whiny titty ass babies will never be satisfied, no matter what Apple does. Don't buy it then. Get FCE and stop trying to use iMovie for what it is no longer for. Of course Apple will fix it pretty soon, you impatient, demanding twit.
All of it served up with a pretty aggressive tone of attack, on the character of anyone who would express dismay.
Right? Pretty undeniable, really.
So at some point, when someone wants to get really explicit on the subject of why explaining how the new iMovie doesn't work for a given user is, in fact, a character flaw, then yes, I will unload, and I don't really care about the tender sensibilities of all those folks who had no problem snorting derisively at the (obviously delusional, self involved, petty, adolescent) folks who expressed an opinion about a piece of Apple software on an Apple discussion board.
If I get too emphatic, the mods will let me know. Perhaps I've earned a bit of leeway by being a member of these boards for quite a while. If I kept on in that tone, I'd for sure hear about it, but either way, it's my choice how loud to yell, when I think a pervasive tone has gone on long enough.
My largest complaint with iMovie '08 is the fugly icon. It doesn't blend in with the other Apple icons at all. Looks like it was just a placeholder icon during development that they forgot to replace.
Thank you so much for saying that! When I watched the video after thinking "cool new app," my next thought wash who wants that fugly icon on their desktop?
Few of us could figure out how to make a movie in under 15 minutes when iMovie was first released, though as with most new things, a bit of practice and patience brings reward.
What are you saying? That since you had to take a long time to learn to make movies, it's not fair that someone else should be able to just jump in and start in 15 minutes?
Oh, I forgot to say, Group 1 normally tries to explain away their defensiveness by inventing extra but unnecessary and inappropriate Groups that are either the same as Group 1 or support Group 1 behaviour.
And Group 1 also (incorrectly) tries to suggest that:
Group 3 don't appreciate Apple's tremendous inventiveness in developing paradigm-shifting software (e.g. in video editing), or that
Group 3 reject all of something just because they don't like part of it, as a way of suggesting that Group 1 (aka 4) are the only true ones that count as friends of Apple (classic Group 1).
Typical Group 5
All I can say is, thank God Apple doesn't listen to all of these complainers who can't stand anything changing. Don't you realize that's exactly what's wrong with Microsoft? Every time they try to make a big change in their software they have about 9 jillion people bellyaching about how they have to relearn this and that and change their workflows, etc. And MS listens to them, and as a result has these monstrous legacy coded apps, and are afraid to ever do anything revolutionary.
Apple fortunately, when they see that it's time to scratch out and start afresh, they've shown again and again, they're willing to do it. And in spite of all of the "Apple teh screwed us over" "WTF Apple !!11!!" comments on these boards, they keep showing that it is better in the long run to ignore such short-sighted people (well, maybe not completely ignore them, we'll let them download iMovie '06, maybe it'll shut some of up
Sometimes it hurts to make major corrections late in the game. However, it's got to be done, and the longer it's put off, the harder it is. That's why I don't envy any MS executive or software developer their position.
Typical Group 5
All I can say is, thank God Apple doesn't listen to all of these complainers who can't stand anything changing. Don't you realize that's exactly what's wrong with Microsoft? Every time they try to make a big change in their software they have about 9 jillion people bellyaching about how they have to relearn this and that and change their workflows, etc. And MS listens to them, and as a result has these monstrous legacy coded apps, and are afraid to ever do anything revolutionary.
Apple fortunately, when they see that it's time to scratch out and start afresh, they've shown again and again, they're willing to do it. And in spite of all of the "Apple teh screwed us over" "WTF Apple !!11!!" comments on these boards, they keep showing that it is better in the long run to ignore such short-sighted people (well, maybe not completely ignore them, we'll let them download iMovie '06, maybe it'll shut some of up
Sometimes it hurts to make major corrections late in the game. However, it's got to be done, and the longer it's put off, the harder it is. That's why I don't envy any MS executive or software developer their position.
Sigh.
I'm trying to figure out how anyone that isn't just actually going out of their way to be a dick can read this thread and decide that the people who don't like the new iMovie don't like it because "they can't stand anything changing".
Maybe you just missed all the posts from people who, despite their very specific concerns about very specific loss of functionality, welcomed and applauded a lot of the new features? You know, the ones that went something like "I think it would have been great if they had made the new iMovie just as they did, but not taken out so many tools. Maybe an 'advanced' tab, or something"?
In fact, pretty much the only people being specific in this thread are the people with complaints. Some of the "stop your bellyaching" posts (like, well, yours) are so pro forma and generic, they seem to be little more than a reflexive response. "Someone-complaining-about-Apple-must-belittle-them-for-whining.......beep."
So it's nice and all to talk about clean slate thinking and taking risks and being willing to alienate the (embittered and hidebound, apparently) few for the glorious new future, but it's really not clear at all what that has to do with, say, making it so you can't adjust the volume of a clip within the clip.
Maybe you could explain which crusty old assumptions were being tossed aside here, and how such tossing clears the deck for the new hotness?