We could have a pool about when Apple will finally announce a prosumer, headless desktop Mac. Winner take all. Put me down for January 2009.
Put me down for January 2008. Leopard, Penryn and market share are all enablers.
Definition of xMac will be essential as the Mac Pro may drop to this area or the Mac Mini may be enhanced. Does this mean that Apple has to have a three tiered offering?
Put me down for January 2008. Leopard, Penryn and market share are all enablers.
Definition of xMac will be essential as the Mac Pro may drop to this area or the Mac Mini may be enhanced. Does this mean that Apple has to have a three tiered offering?
Are those dates when you realistically believe it'll happen or when you WISH it'll happen? I'm pessimistic about it happening - PERIOD. I hope I'm wrong.
Are those dates when you realistically believe it'll happen or when you WISH it'll happen? I'm pessimistic about it happening - PERIOD. I hope I'm wrong.
For my two cents, I believe it will eventually happen -- it has to. But this coming January is too optimistic.
Jobs will have to have a "One More Thing" for MWSF, his ego demands it. The glaring hole in his lineup is between the iMac and the Mac Pro, especially when the Mac Pro will be running two quad-core 3.16 GHz processors.
Why some readers of this forum insist that a cube computer can't have performance puzzles me. Suggest Apple has it build-to-order only, and at the online apple store you get to specify exactly which processor and which graphics card you want in it. Of course you could end up making a very expensive computer if you select top components.
There is still considerable passion for the cube -- check out this website where someone rebuilds a cube from a Mac Mini http://www.123macmini.com/macminicube/.
Jobs will have to have a "One More Thing" for MWSF, his ego demands it. The glaring hole in his lineup is between the iMac and the Mac Pro, especially when the Mac Pro will be running two quad-core 3.16 GHz processors.
Why some readers of this forum insist that a cube computer can't have performance puzzles me. . . .
First off, that remake of the Cube is awesome IMHO. Yet, I have a different take on where it should be positioned in the Mac product lineup. I don't see it as a prosumer Mac.
A prosumer model needs to to have several PCI-e slots for graphics and specialty functionality. It also needs two HDD bays. The design I like is the chopped Mac Pro picture you showed, above.
The black cube you showed has the makings of a low end Mac, to replace the Mac Mini. It is larger than the Mini, and so can provide much more cooling air, for using cheaper desktop chips, rather than laptop. It also has room for a desktop HDD and optical drive. The savings on component cost could offset the added cost of the fancy cube enclosure.
Thinking logically, I would prefer a low end Mac as short as a mini but twice as wide and a little deeper. In this way, my LCD monitor could sit on top of it for conserving desk space. Yet, given the choice of this design or the fancy cube, the cube would win. It has so much more appeal.
Jobs will have to have a "One More Thing" for MWSF, his ego demands it. The glaring hole in his lineup is between the iMac and the Mac Pro, especially when the Mac Pro will be running two quad-core 3.16 GHz processors.
Why some readers of this forum insist that a cube computer can't have performance puzzles me. Suggest Apple has it build-to-order only, and at the online apple store you get to specify exactly which processor and which graphics card you want in it. Of course you could end up making a very expensive computer if you select top components.
There is still considerable passion for the cube -- check out this website where someone rebuilds a cube from a Mac Mini http://www.123macmini.com/macminicube/.
Yes, but BTO options have to be in accordance with the laws of physics. The smaller the case, the less space you have and the less cooling potential you have. Lets say you want Two full size optical drives, two hard drives, and a Radeon HD2900XT. Using the 8" cube dimensions you can only have one half speed notebook optical drive, one hard drive, and cooling the 2900XT is completely out of the question. Not only you will you have to deal with the same basic specs as the iMac, you'll also have to deal with the army of external devices, you'll have to deal with the cube taking up desk space as well because it's too small to mount under the desk. If you want something portable that's decently powerful, it's good option, but compared to ether the iMac for the space saving ability or a real tower for power and expandability, it doesn't make much sense. That's why the G4 Cube failed.
I think what that mod demonstrates (although it was cool to watch) is the strict limitations you have when using the cube form factor. In the end It's just a mini shoved up inside a cube. You can't actually get much more in there. Graphics are out of the question, more than one drive is out of the question. THe limits of that form are too restrictive. That's why it failed the first time.
I think what that mod demonstrates (although it was cool to watch) is the strict limitations you have when using the cube form factor. In the end It's just a mini shoved up inside a cube. You can't actually get much more in there. Graphics are out of the question, more than one drive is out of the question. THe limits of that form are too restrictive. That's why it failed the first time.
Maybe it just demonstrates that the guy wasn't able to redesign the computer but just add bits on and throw it in a bigger case. Obviously Apple would design the computer to fit the enclosure. The fact remains the cube is probably around double the size of the Mini or more and that extra space is more than enough for another hard drive and a proper GPU.
Of course you don't have to take my word for it, there are PC cubes out there that have multiple optical drives and high end GPUs. They obviously didn't find the enclosure too restrictive.
Maybe it just demonstrates that the guy wasn't able to redesign the computer but just add bits on and throw it in a bigger case. Obviously Apple would design the computer to fit the enclosure. The fact remains the cube is probably around double the size of the Mini or more and that extra space is more than enough for another hard drive and a proper GPU.
Of course you don't have to take my word for it, there are PC cubes out there that have multiple optical drives and high end GPUs. They obviously didn't find the enclosure too restrictive.
Those Cubes are not 8 x 8 x 8-inch. They are no where near the size of the Apple cube. Different enclosure = different ballgame. The Apple mission is lost in those cubes. Usual PC cube dimensions are (DxWxH): 14.7" x 11.2" x 9" [edit] That's over 1.5 Cubic Feet BTW.
It's not even a cube at those dimensions when you think about it.
I think two HD's is a happy compromise. Allows Time Machine inside your case, allows a striped or mirrored RAID. The first time you need more HD space, you don't need to immediately toss the HD that came with the machine.
I don't remember when I'd have last seen a machine with more than one optical drive.. at least, one that wasn't a dedicated deployment / burner machine at work.
I am not interested in having more than one optical drive and more than one HD in my cube. If I wanted a buttload of drives, I'd have a Mac Pro.
Which is a workstation, not a desktop. The server class components double the price. What we want is the sweet spot between the severe overkill of the Mac Pro and the severe underkill of the iMac or a Cube.
I think two HD's is a happy compromise. Allows Time Machine inside your case, allows a striped or mirrored RAID. The first time you need more HD space, you don't need to immediately toss the HD that came with the machine.
I don't remember when I'd have last seen a machine with more than one optical drive.. at least, one that wasn't a dedicated deployment / burner machine at work.
Go out to desktop section at best buy. The only single drive model they sell is the HP slimlines. Believe me, having that second drive is very handy.
There's no reason you couldn't fit 3 drive bays (1 slimline optical, 2 HDD) into a cube sized computer given that the mini is only 2" x 6.5" x 6.5" vs 9.8" x 7.7" x 7.7" of the cube (or 7.7 all around ignoring the feet).
The miniG 4 drive enclousre is only 8.75" tall feet and handles. That would make a pretty home server although the case is a bit narrow.
I would buy a 2007 Mac Cube (same dimensions as the old but looking like the baby Mac Pro above) with 2 x 3.5" HDD drive bays, mobile CPU (merom/penryn), GMA X3100, 802.11N, BT, GigE, 2xFW400, FW800, 6xUSB, DVI and HDMI w/HDCP support and expresscard slot. It would make a nice little home server for $1299.
All the expansion you really need short of the Mac Pro level of expansion.
How do you figure vinea? Where is the graphics card going to go? If you tell me some shpeil about how good integrated graphics are I'll throw you out a window. ( ) Forget the cube form. Go for slim tower. The restrictions are freed up, and you can make more people happy with it rather than just people that want a Mini with a second hard-drive. Crap, if you want that there are great after market stackable products that look perfect with mini's.
How do you figure vinea? Where is the graphics card going to go? If you tell me some shpeil about how good integrated graphics are I'll throw you out a window. ( ) Forget the cube form. Go for slim tower. The restrictions are freed up, and you can make more people happy with it rather than just people that want a Mini with a second hard-drive. Crap, if you want that there are great after market stackable products that look perfect with mini's.
You can add a graphics card via the expresscard slot. Or a 2 port eSATA card. Or a 4 PCIe bay. Or whatever else fits in an expresscard slot. Granted only at PCIe x1 speed which hinders the performace of a graphics card. But I said home server. Not uber gaming rig. The box will happily run headless, or run iLife without a dedicated GPU or if you have some Pro(sumer) need for a better GPU (like to run a 30" ACD) you can.
/shrug
If you can cram a 1/2 length PCIe slot in there, by all means...but someone would need to make some nice graphics cards for the thing. That doesn't seem too likely.
A 2 HDD cube allows you to have 2 full sized HDDs via SATA. A HDD enclosure stacked with a mini is limited to FW400 (or USB 2) speeds, and requires extra cabling and power.
If you make the memory accessible like in the iMac and put the bays as two removable drive bays in the back of the unit then you can have a sealed unit (more or less) where the most commonly updated pieces are easily user accessible but the machine itself a sealed and tightly packed unit to reduce footprint.
I'm surprise you didn't complain about the mobile CPU...but as a home media server/HTPC I want it quiet and low power.
I would also prefer a pizza box over a slim tower anyway. Something 1U high like a cut down XServe. Single processor, no dual power supply, etc, etc. But IMHO a cube is still better.
Comments
Tiger works great on all my G4s, and my one G5. Then, getting Leopard will almost be like a new computer to me.
We could have a pool about when Apple will finally announce a prosumer, headless desktop Mac. Winner take all. Put me down for January 2009.
I think you're an optimist. Jobs couldn't care less about what we want or need. I think he's already proved that.
We could have a pool about when Apple will finally announce a prosumer, headless desktop Mac. Winner take all. Put me down for January 2009.
Put me down for January 2008. Leopard, Penryn and market share are all enablers.
Definition of xMac will be essential as the Mac Pro may drop to this area or the Mac Mini may be enhanced. Does this mean that Apple has to have a three tiered offering?
Put me down for January 2008. Leopard, Penryn and market share are all enablers.
Definition of xMac will be essential as the Mac Pro may drop to this area or the Mac Mini may be enhanced. Does this mean that Apple has to have a three tiered offering?
Are those dates when you realistically believe it'll happen or when you WISH it'll happen? I'm pessimistic about it happening - PERIOD. I hope I'm wrong.
Are those dates when you realistically believe it'll happen or when you WISH it'll happen? I'm pessimistic about it happening - PERIOD. I hope I'm wrong.
For my two cents, I believe it will eventually happen -- it has to. But this coming January is too optimistic.
what we got
new iMac
new iPhone
new iPod - next month
MacBook and Pro - just speed bumps i believe thats it, unless scientist find lighter than Alu MBP will not redesigned for longer time
so left with something to do with Mac Pro, Tower or cube
and one another thing much lighter note book
MSWF 2008, something will be new, but we do not know what is the "NEW"?
Why some readers of this forum insist that a cube computer can't have performance puzzles me. Suggest Apple has it build-to-order only, and at the online apple store you get to specify exactly which processor and which graphics card you want in it. Of course you could end up making a very expensive computer if you select top components.
There is still considerable passion for the cube -- check out this website where someone rebuilds a cube from a Mac Mini http://www.123macmini.com/macminicube/.
Jobs will have to have a "One More Thing" for MWSF, his ego demands it. The glaring hole in his lineup is between the iMac and the Mac Pro, especially when the Mac Pro will be running two quad-core 3.16 GHz processors.
Why some readers of this forum insist that a cube computer can't have performance puzzles me. . . .
First off, that remake of the Cube is awesome IMHO. Yet, I have a different take on where it should be positioned in the Mac product lineup. I don't see it as a prosumer Mac.
A prosumer model needs to to have several PCI-e slots for graphics and specialty functionality. It also needs two HDD bays. The design I like is the chopped Mac Pro picture you showed, above.
The black cube you showed has the makings of a low end Mac, to replace the Mac Mini. It is larger than the Mini, and so can provide much more cooling air, for using cheaper desktop chips, rather than laptop. It also has room for a desktop HDD and optical drive. The savings on component cost could offset the added cost of the fancy cube enclosure.
Thinking logically, I would prefer a low end Mac as short as a mini but twice as wide and a little deeper. In this way, my LCD monitor could sit on top of it for conserving desk space. Yet, given the choice of this design or the fancy cube, the cube would win. It has so much more appeal.
Jobs will have to have a "One More Thing" for MWSF, his ego demands it. The glaring hole in his lineup is between the iMac and the Mac Pro, especially when the Mac Pro will be running two quad-core 3.16 GHz processors.
Why some readers of this forum insist that a cube computer can't have performance puzzles me. Suggest Apple has it build-to-order only, and at the online apple store you get to specify exactly which processor and which graphics card you want in it. Of course you could end up making a very expensive computer if you select top components.
There is still considerable passion for the cube -- check out this website where someone rebuilds a cube from a Mac Mini http://www.123macmini.com/macminicube/.
Yes, but BTO options have to be in accordance with the laws of physics. The smaller the case, the less space you have and the less cooling potential you have. Lets say you want Two full size optical drives, two hard drives, and a Radeon HD2900XT. Using the 8" cube dimensions you can only have one half speed notebook optical drive, one hard drive, and cooling the 2900XT is completely out of the question. Not only you will you have to deal with the same basic specs as the iMac, you'll also have to deal with the army of external devices, you'll have to deal with the cube taking up desk space as well because it's too small to mount under the desk. If you want something portable that's decently powerful, it's good option, but compared to ether the iMac for the space saving ability or a real tower for power and expandability, it doesn't make much sense. That's why the G4 Cube failed.
I think what that mod demonstrates (although it was cool to watch) is the strict limitations you have when using the cube form factor. In the end It's just a mini shoved up inside a cube. You can't actually get much more in there. Graphics are out of the question, more than one drive is out of the question. THe limits of that form are too restrictive. That's why it failed the first time.
Maybe it just demonstrates that the guy wasn't able to redesign the computer but just add bits on and throw it in a bigger case. Obviously Apple would design the computer to fit the enclosure. The fact remains the cube is probably around double the size of the Mini or more and that extra space is more than enough for another hard drive and a proper GPU.
Of course you don't have to take my word for it, there are PC cubes out there that have multiple optical drives and high end GPUs. They obviously didn't find the enclosure too restrictive.
Maybe it just demonstrates that the guy wasn't able to redesign the computer but just add bits on and throw it in a bigger case. Obviously Apple would design the computer to fit the enclosure. The fact remains the cube is probably around double the size of the Mini or more and that extra space is more than enough for another hard drive and a proper GPU.
Of course you don't have to take my word for it, there are PC cubes out there that have multiple optical drives and high end GPUs. They obviously didn't find the enclosure too restrictive.
Those Cubes are not 8 x 8 x 8-inch. They are no where near the size of the Apple cube. Different enclosure = different ballgame. The Apple mission is lost in those cubes. Usual PC cube dimensions are (DxWxH): 14.7" x 11.2" x 9" [edit] That's over 1.5 Cubic Feet BTW.
It's not even a cube at those dimensions when you think about it.
I don't remember when I'd have last seen a machine with more than one optical drive.. at least, one that wasn't a dedicated deployment / burner machine at work.
I am not interested in having more than one optical drive and more than one HD in my cube. If I wanted a buttload of drives, I'd have a Mac Pro.
Which is a workstation, not a desktop. The server class components double the price. What we want is the sweet spot between the severe overkill of the Mac Pro and the severe underkill of the iMac or a Cube.
I think two HD's is a happy compromise. Allows Time Machine inside your case, allows a striped or mirrored RAID. The first time you need more HD space, you don't need to immediately toss the HD that came with the machine.
I don't remember when I'd have last seen a machine with more than one optical drive.. at least, one that wasn't a dedicated deployment / burner machine at work.
Go out to desktop section at best buy. The only single drive model they sell is the HP slimlines. Believe me, having that second drive is very handy.
The miniG 4 drive enclousre is only 8.75" tall feet and handles. That would make a pretty home server although the case is a bit narrow.
http://www.transintl.com/store/categ...egory=2597#top
I would buy a 2007 Mac Cube (same dimensions as the old but looking like the baby Mac Pro above) with 2 x 3.5" HDD drive bays, mobile CPU (merom/penryn), GMA X3100, 802.11N, BT, GigE, 2xFW400, FW800, 6xUSB, DVI and HDMI w/HDCP support and expresscard slot. It would make a nice little home server for $1299.
All the expansion you really need short of the Mac Pro level of expansion.
How do you figure vinea? Where is the graphics card going to go? If you tell me some shpeil about how good integrated graphics are I'll throw you out a window. (
You can add a graphics card via the expresscard slot. Or a 2 port eSATA card. Or a 4 PCIe bay. Or whatever else fits in an expresscard slot. Granted only at PCIe x1 speed which hinders the performace of a graphics card. But I said home server. Not uber gaming rig. The box will happily run headless, or run iLife without a dedicated GPU or if you have some Pro(sumer) need for a better GPU (like to run a 30" ACD) you can.
/shrug
If you can cram a 1/2 length PCIe slot in there, by all means...but someone would need to make some nice graphics cards for the thing. That doesn't seem too likely.
A 2 HDD cube allows you to have 2 full sized HDDs via SATA. A HDD enclosure stacked with a mini is limited to FW400 (or USB 2) speeds, and requires extra cabling and power.
If you make the memory accessible like in the iMac and put the bays as two removable drive bays in the back of the unit then you can have a sealed unit (more or less) where the most commonly updated pieces are easily user accessible but the machine itself a sealed and tightly packed unit to reduce footprint.
I'm surprise you didn't complain about the mobile CPU...but as a home media server/HTPC I want it quiet and low power.
I would also prefer a pizza box over a slim tower anyway. Something 1U high like a cut down XServe. Single processor, no dual power supply, etc, etc. But IMHO a cube is still better.
Vinea