While the survey (like all surveys, statistics, and outright lies) has plenty of shortcomings, and the summary is an abomination, the fact of the matter is that sales are going pretty well for the iPhone.
It is clear though that for Apple to sell 1% of all phones worldwide, they are going to have to be available to at least 50% of the worldwide consumers, or do a better job in appealing to business users. 1MM units by quarter's end is going to be a push!
I've read both now and I still don't see any hard numbers from them other than a survey and fromt hat they determine overall numbers. I don't think it's really representative of the actual numbers to be honest.
The numbers are what they are, but how you take them is a different matter. As it is, they all look like estimates at best. I can give you any number you like, but does it really mean anything? Do they actually properly represent what actually happened or what will happen?
Wouldn't the report itself say who financed it? Unless a person has access to the actual report, those comment doesn't mean much, does it? Without that, such comments are just as worthless as you say everyone else's comments are. The AI report is probably heavily distilled. I wish I knew what they were like, to see if they held up to any real scrutiny.
As most other "real" companies of their ilk, they finance their reporting by selling subscriptions to interested companies, and individual reports to anyone who is interested enough to buy them.
Wait until you use one. You'll fall for it just like everyone else.
I'm sure the usability is without fail better than anything out there and I will love it. That's not much help though if it doesn't do what I want and I'd just be guilty of being a fanboy if I bought one despite the fact it's not actually more useful than my previous phone.
And more than likely it looks like it will be much, much more expensive than other phones too if it's sold unsubsidised. That's partly why I think it will be tougher for Apple in Europe where subsidies are much larger than the USA.
Quote:
Originally Posted by GQB
Please elaborate...
- visual voice mail
- full touch interface with virtually unlimited expandability
- ease of use
How are these 2 year-old technology?
Those are all software features. I've no need for Visual Voicemail, I've a touch interface on my phone already (have done for 2+ years) and it's easy to use already. Oh, and it's smaller and I've got TomTom Sat Nav on it, and both ssh and vnc too.
More specifically I was talking about the hardware which is so-so for a modern phone.
Quote:
Originally Posted by GQB
I recently had to use a Motorola Razr as a replacement for my existing Nokia (can't switch to iPhone until there is blessing of corporate pooling account), and the comparison to my experience with the iPhone is a joke. There wasn't a single basic function I could use without consulting (and often continuing to consult) a manual. All functionality buried deeply in cryptic menus, and buttons that make the iPhone's interface look like a billboard.
That's Moto for you - they just don't get software. Not every phone is a Moto. I particularly get on well with Sony Ericsson phones running UIQ.
Quote:
Originally Posted by GQB
I really don't get where there's any comparison between iPhone and existing products. Even existing failings can and will be addressed by software updates.
Most of the existing failings for me are hardware based though. I'm prepared to wait for software updates to add things I take for granted in my current phone - like IM, Video, ToDo - but software updates aren't going to give me a decent camera or 3G or a button for operating the camera and those are things I expect in a phone.
I'm greatly encouraged by the current iPhone hackers. As I said before launch, by the time it gets to Europe, most of the issues would be worked out. If we get Rev B hardware too, all the better and I suspect I'll be queuing for 3 days in a sedentary non rabid fashion for one.
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism
Those comments are best ignored. They are typical hyperbole rhetoric referring to mainly to Apple's use of he 2.5G EDGE technology, and partly to only having a 2MP digital camera.
When most (trying to think of one that isn't in fact) smartphones in Europe have 3.2mp auto focus cameras, semi-decent flashes and 3G/Wifi, it's not really hyperbole, it's reality.
See Nokia's N95 or SE's P1i.
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism
I am under the impression that Apple's choice for EU providers have substantial EDGE networks and that O2 in the UK has the largest customer base in the UK. If this is correct, I think the iPhone will fair quite well.
No, that's totally off. O2 are one of the smaller companies (at least 3rd in the UK behind Orange and Vodafone) with the poorest coverage and no EDGE at all. Most of Europe skipped EDGE and went straight on to 3G having spent a bundle on the 3G licences. Only Orange implemented EDGE although t-mobile have latterly.
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism
The digital camera on the iPhone is fine but there are some some software issues that need to be addressed, like image stabilization and color syncing, though it fairs better than other higher resolution cameras in this area. But these can hardly be called "2 year old tech."
But they are. I've not seen a new smartphone released in Europe for at least 2 years which didn't have at least 2mp and a flash. Most today come with 3.2mp or 5mp and decent enough lenses and sensors to make use of the mp too.
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism
I love how with all the R&D Apple puts into products, and how they have confounded and proven wrong the pundits at every turn for a decade now, that people still come to this board claiming Apple doesn't have the slightest idea what they are doing.
Sometimes they get it spot on right. Lately they've been getting 8 or 9 tenths of the way there but failing at the last hurdle. eg. non-gigabit Airport Extreme (now fixed), AppleTV (but no content in Europe, no tuner, no DVR), new iMac (with a white mouse and silver/white keyboard but a black surround - Ugh!), new Finder/Dock (but with new flaws), ZFS support (but read only!).
iPhone to me is a 5 so far but my current phone is a 4 and the new P1i is looking like a 6. I can wait though to see what they do in Europe before deciding.
aegidesign, very good post but you are wasting your time i am afraid. The fanbois have fallen for Steve Jobs rhetoric hook line and sinker, they truly believe the hype and are guzzling the kool-aid by the gallon.
I would have far more respect for anyone who would just say that the iPhone is a good effort with some good features but is not the best phone in the world. There are many better phones on the market and maybe they do not have multi-touch or visual voicemail but these are nothing more than gimmicks and do nothing to improve the basic features of a phone i.e. making calls and sending texts.
Oh well, at least it is fun reading the posts from the the believers, some of them make me laugh :-)
I am no expert on R&D, but as a consumer, I agree. Based on my first-hand experience thus far, I will venture a guess that the iPhone, in its current form, will blow away Europeans too.
I would agree 100% i think that plenty of Europeans will be blown away when they realise they cannot send of receive MMS's on their newly purchased iPhone, it would blow me away if i did not know when i purchased, especially if all my friends used MMS exclusively to send photo's to each other, would kinda make me the odd one out.
I think some will be blown away by the inability to send a group text too.
I day say one or two may even be blown away while waiting for a web page to download over GPRS also.
Of course the price may blow some away, after being used to getting phones for free with a 12 month contract, (even decent ones with 3.2 MP cameras, real flashes and 3G email, MMS and internet) paying 4-500 pounds for an iPhone and being forced into a 2 year contract as well could blow a few people away.
mmm.. theres gonna be plenty of blowing away alright!
I would agree 100% i think that plenty of Europeans will be blown away when they realise they cannot send of receive MMS's on their newly purchased iPhone, it would blow me away if i did not know when i purchased, especially if all my friends used MMS exclusively to send photo's to each other, would kinda make me the odd one out.
I think some will be blown away by the inability to send a group text too.
I day say one or two may even be blown away while waiting for a web page to download over GPRS also.
Of course the price may blow some away, after being used to getting phones for free with a 12 month contract, (even decent ones with 3.2 MP cameras, real flashes and 3G email, MMS and internet) paying 4-500 pounds for an iPhone and being forced into a 2 year contract as well could blow a few people away.
mmm.. theres gonna be plenty of blowing away alright!
Oooh...... dripping with sarcasm, aren't we.
For you it's group text, MMS,...... whatever. For me, the iPhone currently has just about most things I find valuable in my digital life (for instance, I don't "text" much, a form of communication that I think will go way of the dodo). Or, it is simply a case of my being star-struck by Steve Jobs' sales pitch -- who knows.
Either way, I am a pretty happy customer, and can say so confidently because I have actually used one every day for over two months now.
The bottom line is, your predictions are about as good as mine: worth the paper they are written on.
For you it's group text, MMS,...... whatever. For me, the iPhone currently has just about most things I find valuable in my digital life (for instance, I don't "text" much, a form of communication that I think will go way of the dodo). Or, it is simply a case of my being star-struck by Steve Jobs' sales pitch -- who knows.
I already come across people who would rather IM me (on MSN only too - nobody uses anything else in Europe apparently) or SMS me than email because they find email unreliable either because they're overloaded with spam or their spam filters are overzealous and they often miss emails.
I would say the opposite is going to be true unless somebody fixes email or merges it with SMS.
I was actually quite disappointed that Apple didn't merge email, SMS and voicemail into one inbox. It seems very un-Apple to leave the distinction there. They've left the implementation details of 'Sending and receiving messages" out there hanging in the breeze. Instead of the promised revolutionary device we got the same old ways of doing things, voicemail aside. Again, 8 tenths of the way there.
For you it's group text, MMS,...... whatever. For me, the iPhone currently has just about most things I find valuable in my digital life (for instance, I don't "text" much, a form of communication that I think will go way of the dodo). Or, it is simply a case of my being star-struck by Steve Jobs' sales pitch -- who knows.
Either way, I am a pretty happy customer, and can say so confidently because I have actually used one every day for over two months now.
The bottom line is, your predictions are about as good as mine: worth the paper they are written on.
And that is fine for you, i am pleased you are happy with your purchase, it seems a decent enough phone and i am sure there is a market for it. But your post stated that Europeans would be blown away by the iPhone and i was giving you reasons why they would not. Your comments above suggest you have very little undestanding of how mobile phones are used in Europe. For two countries like the UK and US to have such similar cultures the differences in the mobile phone market are weird, but they exist to a great extent.
So no, your predictions are not as good as mine in this case because i have a strong knowledge of the mobile phone market in Europe and the UK in particular both as a consumer and as someone who has worked in the industry and you clearly have not.
Comments
Do all these 3-D graphs (I assume on Numbers/iWork) look weirdly like non-parallel optical illusions?
Or maybe, it's just me.....
Indeed you are. A non-parallel optical illusion that is
Ladies, we have wood.
Apparently bar charts makes SpamSandwich think of his penis.
Apparently bar charts makes SpamSandwich think of his penis.
Who said anything about a penis?
It is clear though that for Apple to sell 1% of all phones worldwide, they are going to have to be available to at least 50% of the worldwide consumers, or do a better job in appealing to business users. 1MM units by quarter's end is going to be a push!
Long term, though... Apple's rocking!
Mel,
I've read both now and I still don't see any hard numbers from them other than a survey and fromt hat they determine overall numbers. I don't think it's really representative of the actual numbers to be honest.
This will explain a bit more about their methods.
http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post...s-in-july.html
These surveys are surprisingly accurate. They are normally within 10% or so of the actual numbers.
The numbers are what they are, but how you take them is a different matter. As it is, they all look like estimates at best. I can give you any number you like, but does it really mean anything? Do they actually properly represent what actually happened or what will happen?
Wouldn't the report itself say who financed it? Unless a person has access to the actual report, those comment doesn't mean much, does it? Without that, such comments are just as worthless as you say everyone else's comments are. The AI report is probably heavily distilled. I wish I knew what they were like, to see if they held up to any real scrutiny.
As most other "real" companies of their ilk, they finance their reporting by selling subscriptions to interested companies, and individual reports to anyone who is interested enough to buy them.
I can--that graph is much more easy to understand.
The best graphs are the simple graphs. There is no 3D data being presented her, and so it doesn't need a 3D graph. Esp. shown from an angle.
Every book on the subject of presentation will say that these complex graphics make information more difficult to digest.
Who said anything about a penis?
It's actually icfireball who is thinking about your penis.
Wait until you use one. You'll fall for it just like everyone else.
I'm sure the usability is without fail better than anything out there and I will love it. That's not much help though if it doesn't do what I want and I'd just be guilty of being a fanboy if I bought one despite the fact it's not actually more useful than my previous phone.
And more than likely it looks like it will be much, much more expensive than other phones too if it's sold unsubsidised. That's partly why I think it will be tougher for Apple in Europe where subsidies are much larger than the USA.
Please elaborate...
- visual voice mail
- full touch interface with virtually unlimited expandability
- ease of use
How are these 2 year-old technology?
Those are all software features. I've no need for Visual Voicemail, I've a touch interface on my phone already (have done for 2+ years) and it's easy to use already. Oh, and it's smaller and I've got TomTom Sat Nav on it, and both ssh and vnc too.
More specifically I was talking about the hardware which is so-so for a modern phone.
I recently had to use a Motorola Razr as a replacement for my existing Nokia (can't switch to iPhone until there is blessing of corporate pooling account), and the comparison to my experience with the iPhone is a joke. There wasn't a single basic function I could use without consulting (and often continuing to consult) a manual. All functionality buried deeply in cryptic menus, and buttons that make the iPhone's interface look like a billboard.
That's Moto for you - they just don't get software. Not every phone is a Moto. I particularly get on well with Sony Ericsson phones running UIQ.
I really don't get where there's any comparison between iPhone and existing products. Even existing failings can and will be addressed by software updates.
Most of the existing failings for me are hardware based though. I'm prepared to wait for software updates to add things I take for granted in my current phone - like IM, Video, ToDo - but software updates aren't going to give me a decent camera or 3G or a button for operating the camera and those are things I expect in a phone.
I'm greatly encouraged by the current iPhone hackers. As I said before launch, by the time it gets to Europe, most of the issues would be worked out. If we get Rev B hardware too, all the better and I suspect I'll be queuing for 3 days in a sedentary non rabid fashion for one.
Those comments are best ignored. They are typical hyperbole rhetoric referring to mainly to Apple's use of he 2.5G EDGE technology, and partly to only having a 2MP digital camera.
When most (trying to think of one that isn't in fact) smartphones in Europe have 3.2mp auto focus cameras, semi-decent flashes and 3G/Wifi, it's not really hyperbole, it's reality.
See Nokia's N95 or SE's P1i.
I am under the impression that Apple's choice for EU providers have substantial EDGE networks and that O2 in the UK has the largest customer base in the UK. If this is correct, I think the iPhone will fair quite well.
No, that's totally off. O2 are one of the smaller companies (at least 3rd in the UK behind Orange and Vodafone) with the poorest coverage and no EDGE at all. Most of Europe skipped EDGE and went straight on to 3G having spent a bundle on the 3G licences. Only Orange implemented EDGE although t-mobile have latterly.
The digital camera on the iPhone is fine but there are some some software issues that need to be addressed, like image stabilization and color syncing, though it fairs better than other higher resolution cameras in this area. But these can hardly be called "2 year old tech."
But they are. I've not seen a new smartphone released in Europe for at least 2 years which didn't have at least 2mp and a flash. Most today come with 3.2mp or 5mp and decent enough lenses and sensors to make use of the mp too.
I love how with all the R&D Apple puts into products, and how they have confounded and proven wrong the pundits at every turn for a decade now, that people still come to this board claiming Apple doesn't have the slightest idea what they are doing.
Sometimes they get it spot on right. Lately they've been getting 8 or 9 tenths of the way there but failing at the last hurdle. eg. non-gigabit Airport Extreme (now fixed), AppleTV (but no content in Europe, no tuner, no DVR), new iMac (with a white mouse and silver/white keyboard but a black surround - Ugh!), new Finder/Dock (but with new flaws), ZFS support (but read only!).
iPhone to me is a 5 so far but my current phone is a 4 and the new P1i is looking like a 6. I can wait though to see what they do in Europe before deciding.
I would have far more respect for anyone who would just say that the iPhone is a good effort with some good features but is not the best phone in the world. There are many better phones on the market and maybe they do not have multi-touch or visual voicemail but these are nothing more than gimmicks and do nothing to improve the basic features of a phone i.e. making calls and sending texts.
Oh well, at least it is fun reading the posts from the the believers, some of them make me laugh :-)
I am no expert on R&D, but as a consumer, I agree. Based on my first-hand experience thus far, I will venture a guess that the iPhone, in its current form, will blow away Europeans too.
I would agree 100% i think that plenty of Europeans will be blown away when they realise they cannot send of receive MMS's on their newly purchased iPhone, it would blow me away if i did not know when i purchased, especially if all my friends used MMS exclusively to send photo's to each other, would kinda make me the odd one out.
I think some will be blown away by the inability to send a group text too.
I day say one or two may even be blown away while waiting for a web page to download over GPRS also.
Of course the price may blow some away, after being used to getting phones for free with a 12 month contract, (even decent ones with 3.2 MP cameras, real flashes and 3G email, MMS and internet) paying 4-500 pounds for an iPhone and being forced into a 2 year contract as well could blow a few people away.
mmm.. theres gonna be plenty of blowing away alright!
I would agree 100% i think that plenty of Europeans will be blown away when they realise they cannot send of receive MMS's on their newly purchased iPhone, it would blow me away if i did not know when i purchased, especially if all my friends used MMS exclusively to send photo's to each other, would kinda make me the odd one out.
I think some will be blown away by the inability to send a group text too.
I day say one or two may even be blown away while waiting for a web page to download over GPRS also.
Of course the price may blow some away, after being used to getting phones for free with a 12 month contract, (even decent ones with 3.2 MP cameras, real flashes and 3G email, MMS and internet) paying 4-500 pounds for an iPhone and being forced into a 2 year contract as well could blow a few people away.
mmm.. theres gonna be plenty of blowing away alright!
Oooh...... dripping with sarcasm, aren't we.
For you it's group text, MMS,...... whatever. For me, the iPhone currently has just about most things I find valuable in my digital life (for instance, I don't "text" much, a form of communication that I think will go way of the dodo). Or, it is simply a case of my being star-struck by Steve Jobs' sales pitch -- who knows.
Either way, I am a pretty happy customer, and can say so confidently because I have actually used one every day for over two months now.
The bottom line is, your predictions are about as good as mine: worth the paper they are written on.
For you it's group text, MMS,...... whatever. For me, the iPhone currently has just about most things I find valuable in my digital life (for instance, I don't "text" much, a form of communication that I think will go way of the dodo). Or, it is simply a case of my being star-struck by Steve Jobs' sales pitch -- who knows.
I already come across people who would rather IM me (on MSN only too - nobody uses anything else in Europe apparently) or SMS me than email because they find email unreliable either because they're overloaded with spam or their spam filters are overzealous and they often miss emails.
I would say the opposite is going to be true unless somebody fixes email or merges it with SMS.
I was actually quite disappointed that Apple didn't merge email, SMS and voicemail into one inbox. It seems very un-Apple to leave the distinction there. They've left the implementation details of 'Sending and receiving messages" out there hanging in the breeze. Instead of the promised revolutionary device we got the same old ways of doing things, voicemail aside. Again, 8 tenths of the way there.
Oooh...... dripping with sarcasm, aren't we.
For you it's group text, MMS,...... whatever. For me, the iPhone currently has just about most things I find valuable in my digital life (for instance, I don't "text" much, a form of communication that I think will go way of the dodo). Or, it is simply a case of my being star-struck by Steve Jobs' sales pitch -- who knows.
Either way, I am a pretty happy customer, and can say so confidently because I have actually used one every day for over two months now.
The bottom line is, your predictions are about as good as mine: worth the paper they are written on.
And that is fine for you, i am pleased you are happy with your purchase, it seems a decent enough phone and i am sure there is a market for it. But your post stated that Europeans would be blown away by the iPhone and i was giving you reasons why they would not. Your comments above suggest you have very little undestanding of how mobile phones are used in Europe. For two countries like the UK and US to have such similar cultures the differences in the mobile phone market are weird, but they exist to a great extent.
So no, your predictions are not as good as mine in this case because i have a strong knowledge of the mobile phone market in Europe and the UK in particular both as a consumer and as someone who has worked in the industry and you clearly have not.