I might be wrong, but wouldn't the 3G transmitter always be on? There are probably power-savings modes, but I wonder whether they would double battery life if you weren't "surfing." Anyone know anything about this?
My phone has options for when to use 3G: for calls, for MMS, or just for internet. I've got it set on just internet, and so it only starts the 3G transmitter when I start the web browser. Calls are still made using normal GSM.
The battery in my phone is a bit knackered, having had it a few years. It lasts 2 or 3 days on standby now, and about 2 hours of calling. It used to last over a week on standby.
With a good browser, like the one in an iPhone, I could easily see people web surfing while commuting on trains/buses. With an hour each way (not unusual for people who live in suburbs), there's over 2 hours a day right there.
If you surf the net every day for two straight hours to and fro you will get seriously bored. At the end of the day "one" settles for one or two news sites and maybe a sports site.
Oh and how about that old analogue and reliable friend when commuting called "a good book" or a magazine ?
This would work. I've seen others write about this before, so I don't know why I have my head stuck on GPS. Perhaps like EDGE and Wi-Fi, the iPhone could switch between GPS and "cell location" as appropriate, thereby negating much of the power draw on the GPS.
The problem with the 1Gen iPhone is that the expectations for size are set along with expectation for battery life. The next one can't be any bigger than the current one. Bumping the memory to 16GB shouldn't be a problem, but the 3G and GPS chipsets can't occupy too much room, or the footprint should be shot.
Cell location isn't accurate enough for live use. Present GPS locators can get to about a meter, or better, in a few cases. WiFi is not nearly ubiquitous enough to be of any use. I'm not sure how accurate it would be.
I might be wrong, but wouldn't the 3G transmitter always be on? There are probably power-savings modes, but I wonder whether they would double battery life if you weren't "surfing." Anyone know anything about this?
It would be nice if it turned on when you tapped on Safari, and went off when you closed it. but, I don't know how it would work.
As far as I can tell, the 3G on my Treo 700p is always on, but I'm not sure. There is nothing in the prefs for networks about it. When I go to the web, the phone goes through the signing on procedure, handshake, password, etc. I don't know what else the phone is doing. You would think that if it is always on that it might not have to do that. But, you are only on the network when you sign in.
There's this thing called swappable battery. Easily solves the battery issue of the iPhone whether it's 1G, 2G, 3G or 4G. Why on earth Mr. Jobs doesn't want to provide this most basic option that's available to most of the mobile phones out in the market? Really beats me.
Apple can still design a tight design with swappable battery. If it's about making $, Apple is know to charge premium for their stuff. I'm sure Mr. Jobs can still make $$$$$$$$$$ by selling swappable batteries.
He doesn't do it because it would make the phone thicker, heavier, and slightly more expensive.
It would also have the tendency of having the battery pop out the way I see it happen with many other phones that people drop. The phone hits the ground, and the battery, and door, if there is a separate one, go flying.
I'd love to see some stats on just how many people actually do buy extra batteries. I'll bet the number is pretty low.
Hmmm... the iPhone must do that sort of stuff in the background, since we see none of it.
Also, why do you need a password to get to the internet?!
I would suppose that Sprint requires it for me to get on their data network, as a paid user. I don't have to fill it in though, it's done automatically.
Since the iPhone seems to do this in the background, where you don't see it happening, ATT likely requires it as well, but you don't know.
In talking about battery life on 3G, I realized I don't see a car adaptor for the iPhone to charge with. They have a USB charger, but what's the deal with that? Every phone I've had has come with a car adaptor.
In talking about battery life on 3G, I realized I don't see a car adaptor for the iPhone to charge with. They have a USB charger, but what's the deal with that? Every phone I've had has come with a car adaptor.
Does Apple make car adapters for iPods (let alone iPhones)? Or do third party providers?
I really can't see Apple coming out with a 2nd gen 1Q 2008. There were people upset about a price cut 3 months after it's realease and I could only imagine how upset people would be after this, especially so close after the holiday season. I would guess no earlier than 3Q 2008, but I really am just basing this off of a hunch.
Nevertheless, this "news", whether accurate or not, comes at a pretty bad time for me. My contract with AT&T is up for renewal in about a month and a half and I'm torn on whether or not to get an iPhone. My gut tells me to wait for a 2nd gen like this to come out, with 3G, GPS, larger capacity, etc.. But with the horrible lack of an upgrade policy with the iphone and it's potentially higher price I don't know if I would even be able to get a 2nd gen iphone. My hope is that if they do release a 2nd gen sometime early next year, that they have some sort of upgrade policy for those who recently purchased 1st gen models.
My hope is that if they do release a 2nd gen sometime early next year, that they have some sort of upgrade policy for those who recently purchased 1st gen models.
I'm hoping someone at some point hooks up a bluetooth GPS module. Apple's bluetooth profiles on the iPhone are pitifully barren of anything useful just now but there's no reason they couldn't add bluetooth GPS support to their Google Maps app.
That's what I use with TomTom mobile and my SE P910i currently. It works great.
Exactly. Google Maps on my Blackberry gives me location and directions with the tiny Bluetooth GPS I already have.
Apple has the bluetooth stack and profiles in OSX, just put them in the iPhone already.
Then the iPhone would also send callerID popups to my Mac's as my other Bluetooth phones do. And SMS conversations can be done via addressbook on my Powerbook or iMac keyboards.
The last thing I expected from Apple was the bluetooth crippling that CDMA providers tend to foist onto the phones they carry.
He doesn't do it because it would make the phone thicker, heavier, and slightly more expensive.
Nah, he does it to shunt more work and revenue to his repair centers.
A user replaceable hard drive in my iMac (drives also tend to fail in the 3-4 year time frame), doesn't make it thicker. The G5 iMac model before mine had an access port to accomplish that. So there was precedent. Then the following rev had no such access. Hard drive replacement is a royal PITA on my iMac G5. Means though it would be trivial to replace a failing drive, or upgrade to a larger one, it's more than likely that it will be passed off to a service center.
I really can't see Apple coming out with a 2nd gen 1Q 2008. There were people upset about a price cut 3 months after it's realease and I could only imagine how upset people would be after this, especially so close after the holiday season. I would guess no earlier than 3Q 2008, but I really am just basing this off of a hunch.
Nevertheless, this "news", whether accurate or not, comes at a pretty bad time for me. My contract with AT&T is up for renewal in about a month and a half and I'm torn on whether or not to get an iPhone. My gut tells me to wait for a 2nd gen like this to come out, with 3G, GPS, larger capacity, etc.. But with the horrible lack of an upgrade policy with the iphone and it's potentially higher price I don't know if I would even be able to get a 2nd gen iphone. My hope is that if they do release a 2nd gen sometime early next year, that they have some sort of upgrade policy for those who recently purchased 1st gen models.
Well, these aren't full size computers, you know. Who's to say if Apple might decide to change it's product cycle if the technology is available. I'm not saying you're wrong, of course. How often do handset companies change models. Usually they produce multiple models. Apple might start producing multiple handset models just as they do with computers and iPods. Not one size fits all policy.
You are really facing a self-made dilemma. You can buy a current iPhone and sell it when a new version comes out if that's feasible. Even if a 3G, GPS-enabled iPhone is introduced, there's no guarantee that the US will get it first (I don't know if you're in the US or not). Or you can buy some other inexpensive handset with a short-term contract and wait it out for the next iPhone model. I'd make the latter choice, but my opinion is worthless since I don't even own a cellphone.
Nah, he does it to shunt more work and revenue to his repair centers.
A user replaceable hard drive in my iMac (drives also tend to fail in the 3-4 year time frame), doesn't make it thicker. The G5 iMac model before mine had an access port to accomplish that. So there was precedent. Then the following rev had no such access. Hard drive replacement is a royal PITA on my iMac G5. Means though it would be trivial to replace a failing drive, or upgrade to a larger one, it's more than likely that it will be passed off to a service center.
First of all, you don't know that.. How do you know it doesn't make it thicker? You don't. The design has changed so much over the years.
But, HDD's in iMacs are besides the point. Look in any battery powered device you have. you will see all of the space needed because of the replaceable batteries. There is, usually, a cover. That takes up space. It is usually at least a millimeter thick. Then there is some space between that and the battery itself. Another millimeter or two. Then there is the case below the battery, and around it., to protect the insides when it is opened. That takes several more millimeters. Then there are the spring contacts. That takes several millimeters.
The battery itself must be sealed against damage from handling. That adds two or three millimeters of thickness, and length.
This could add another half ounce, or more.
If you don't see this, then it's hard to explain.
On a large device, that's not tightly packed, the extra space, and weight, doesn't matter much. But, for a small tightly packed device such as Apple's iPhone, or their iPods, it does. All you have to do is to look at the several take-apart sites that have shown it.
That's what I expected... there is no way he is going to say that its coming soon cause... it'll just kill present sales.
Yep. But Steve's up against a time wall in any case, in that the iPhone must have 3G for the Asian launch (slated for mid-'08). 'Cuz if it doesn't, it's going down in flames over there.
Japan and Korea have MUCH higher 3G penetration rates than the US or even Europe, and 3G will be more ubiquitous still by the time '08 rolls around.
A 2.5G iPhone gets laughed out of those markets, literally.
Comments
I might be wrong, but wouldn't the 3G transmitter always be on? There are probably power-savings modes, but I wonder whether they would double battery life if you weren't "surfing." Anyone know anything about this?
My phone has options for when to use 3G: for calls, for MMS, or just for internet. I've got it set on just internet, and so it only starts the 3G transmitter when I start the web browser. Calls are still made using normal GSM.
The battery in my phone is a bit knackered, having had it a few years. It lasts 2 or 3 days on standby now, and about 2 hours of calling. It used to last over a week on standby.
Amorya
With a good browser, like the one in an iPhone, I could easily see people web surfing while commuting on trains/buses. With an hour each way (not unusual for people who live in suburbs), there's over 2 hours a day right there.
If you surf the net every day for two straight hours to and fro you will get seriously bored. At the end of the day "one" settles for one or two news sites and maybe a sports site.
Oh and how about that old analogue and reliable friend when commuting called "a good book" or a magazine ?
nobody surfs on the net using phones for 2-3 straight hours. I think Jobs misses that point. it's usually a quick search and done.
to me what he said at London is just to sell some more iPhones.
There's many a a time that I've spent between 1 and 2 hours on the internet with my iPhone. Wait till you get stuck in an airport......
nobody surfs on the net using phones for 2-3 straight hours. I think Jobs misses that point. it's usually a quick search and done.
to me what he said at London is just to sell some more iPhones.
I have, while my 2 year napped in the back seat of my car. I can get 4 hours of surfing in before the 20% warning pops up.
This would work. I've seen others write about this before, so I don't know why I have my head stuck on GPS. Perhaps like EDGE and Wi-Fi, the iPhone could switch between GPS and "cell location" as appropriate, thereby negating much of the power draw on the GPS.
The problem with the 1Gen iPhone is that the expectations for size are set along with expectation for battery life. The next one can't be any bigger than the current one. Bumping the memory to 16GB shouldn't be a problem, but the 3G and GPS chipsets can't occupy too much room, or the footprint should be shot.
Cell location isn't accurate enough for live use. Present GPS locators can get to about a meter, or better, in a few cases. WiFi is not nearly ubiquitous enough to be of any use. I'm not sure how accurate it would be.
I might be wrong, but wouldn't the 3G transmitter always be on? There are probably power-savings modes, but I wonder whether they would double battery life if you weren't "surfing." Anyone know anything about this?
It would be nice if it turned on when you tapped on Safari, and went off when you closed it. but, I don't know how it would work.
As far as I can tell, the 3G on my Treo 700p is always on, but I'm not sure. There is nothing in the prefs for networks about it. When I go to the web, the phone goes through the signing on procedure, handshake, password, etc. I don't know what else the phone is doing. You would think that if it is always on that it might not have to do that. But, you are only on the network when you sign in.
There's this thing called swappable battery. Easily solves the battery issue of the iPhone whether it's 1G, 2G, 3G or 4G. Why on earth Mr. Jobs doesn't want to provide this most basic option that's available to most of the mobile phones out in the market? Really beats me.
Apple can still design a tight design with swappable battery. If it's about making $, Apple is know to charge premium for their stuff. I'm sure Mr. Jobs can still make $$$$$$$$$$ by selling swappable batteries.
He doesn't do it because it would make the phone thicker, heavier, and slightly more expensive.
It would also have the tendency of having the battery pop out the way I see it happen with many other phones that people drop. The phone hits the ground, and the battery, and door, if there is a separate one, go flying.
I'd love to see some stats on just how many people actually do buy extra batteries. I'll bet the number is pretty low.
When I go to the web, the phone goes through the signing on procedure, handshake, password, etc.
Hmmm... the iPhone must do that sort of stuff in the background, since we see none of it.
Also, why do you need a password to get to the internet?!
Hmmm... the iPhone must do that sort of stuff in the background, since we see none of it.
Also, why do you need a password to get to the internet?!
I would suppose that Sprint requires it for me to get on their data network, as a paid user. I don't have to fill it in though, it's done automatically.
Since the iPhone seems to do this in the background, where you don't see it happening, ATT likely requires it as well, but you don't know.
In talking about battery life on 3G, I realized I don't see a car adaptor for the iPhone to charge with. They have a USB charger, but what's the deal with that? Every phone I've had has come with a car adaptor.
Does Apple make car adapters for iPods (let alone iPhones)? Or do third party providers?
Nevertheless, this "news", whether accurate or not, comes at a pretty bad time for me. My contract with AT&T is up for renewal in about a month and a half and I'm torn on whether or not to get an iPhone. My gut tells me to wait for a 2nd gen like this to come out, with 3G, GPS, larger capacity, etc.. But with the horrible lack of an upgrade policy with the iphone and it's potentially higher price I don't know if I would even be able to get a 2nd gen iphone. My hope is that if they do release a 2nd gen sometime early next year, that they have some sort of upgrade policy for those who recently purchased 1st gen models.
My hope is that if they do release a 2nd gen sometime early next year, that they have some sort of upgrade policy for those who recently purchased 1st gen models.
I doubt it very much.
I doubt it very much.
Oh I know, I very much doubt it too. Just wishful thinking.
I'm hoping someone at some point hooks up a bluetooth GPS module. Apple's bluetooth profiles on the iPhone are pitifully barren of anything useful just now but there's no reason they couldn't add bluetooth GPS support to their Google Maps app.
That's what I use with TomTom mobile and my SE P910i currently. It works great.
Exactly. Google Maps on my Blackberry gives me location and directions with the tiny Bluetooth GPS I already have.
Apple has the bluetooth stack and profiles in OSX, just put them in the iPhone already.
Then the iPhone would also send callerID popups to my Mac's as my other Bluetooth phones do. And SMS conversations can be done via addressbook on my Powerbook or iMac keyboards.
The last thing I expected from Apple was the bluetooth crippling that CDMA providers tend to foist onto the phones they carry.
He doesn't do it because it would make the phone thicker, heavier, and slightly more expensive.
Nah, he does it to shunt more work and revenue to his repair centers.
A user replaceable hard drive in my iMac (drives also tend to fail in the 3-4 year time frame), doesn't make it thicker. The G5 iMac model before mine had an access port to accomplish that. So there was precedent. Then the following rev had no such access. Hard drive replacement is a royal PITA on my iMac G5. Means though it would be trivial to replace a failing drive, or upgrade to a larger one, it's more than likely that it will be passed off to a service center.
I really can't see Apple coming out with a 2nd gen 1Q 2008. There were people upset about a price cut 3 months after it's realease and I could only imagine how upset people would be after this, especially so close after the holiday season. I would guess no earlier than 3Q 2008, but I really am just basing this off of a hunch.
Nevertheless, this "news", whether accurate or not, comes at a pretty bad time for me. My contract with AT&T is up for renewal in about a month and a half and I'm torn on whether or not to get an iPhone. My gut tells me to wait for a 2nd gen like this to come out, with 3G, GPS, larger capacity, etc.. But with the horrible lack of an upgrade policy with the iphone and it's potentially higher price I don't know if I would even be able to get a 2nd gen iphone. My hope is that if they do release a 2nd gen sometime early next year, that they have some sort of upgrade policy for those who recently purchased 1st gen models.
Well, these aren't full size computers, you know. Who's to say if Apple might decide to change it's product cycle if the technology is available. I'm not saying you're wrong, of course. How often do handset companies change models. Usually they produce multiple models. Apple might start producing multiple handset models just as they do with computers and iPods. Not one size fits all policy.
You are really facing a self-made dilemma. You can buy a current iPhone and sell it when a new version comes out if that's feasible. Even if a 3G, GPS-enabled iPhone is introduced, there's no guarantee that the US will get it first (I don't know if you're in the US or not). Or you can buy some other inexpensive handset with a short-term contract and wait it out for the next iPhone model. I'd make the latter choice, but my opinion is worthless since I don't even own a cellphone.
Nah, he does it to shunt more work and revenue to his repair centers.
A user replaceable hard drive in my iMac (drives also tend to fail in the 3-4 year time frame), doesn't make it thicker. The G5 iMac model before mine had an access port to accomplish that. So there was precedent. Then the following rev had no such access. Hard drive replacement is a royal PITA on my iMac G5. Means though it would be trivial to replace a failing drive, or upgrade to a larger one, it's more than likely that it will be passed off to a service center.
First of all, you don't know that.. How do you know it doesn't make it thicker? You don't. The design has changed so much over the years.
But, HDD's in iMacs are besides the point. Look in any battery powered device you have. you will see all of the space needed because of the replaceable batteries. There is, usually, a cover. That takes up space. It is usually at least a millimeter thick. Then there is some space between that and the battery itself. Another millimeter or two. Then there is the case below the battery, and around it., to protect the insides when it is opened. That takes several more millimeters. Then there are the spring contacts. That takes several millimeters.
The battery itself must be sealed against damage from handling. That adds two or three millimeters of thickness, and length.
This could add another half ounce, or more.
If you don't see this, then it's hard to explain.
On a large device, that's not tightly packed, the extra space, and weight, doesn't matter much. But, for a small tightly packed device such as Apple's iPhone, or their iPods, it does. All you have to do is to look at the several take-apart sites that have shown it.
.
That's what I expected... there is no way he is going to say that its coming soon cause... it'll just kill present sales.
Yep. But Steve's up against a time wall in any case, in that the iPhone must have 3G for the Asian launch (slated for mid-'08). 'Cuz if it doesn't, it's going down in flames over there.
Japan and Korea have MUCH higher 3G penetration rates than the US or even Europe, and 3G will be more ubiquitous still by the time '08 rolls around.
A 2.5G iPhone gets laughed out of those markets, literally.
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