Yep. But Steve's up against a time wall in any case, in that the iPhone must have 3G for the Asian launch (slated for mid-'08). 'Cuz if it doesn't, it's going down in flames over there.
Japan and Korea have MUCH higher 3G penetration rates than the US or even Europe, and 3G will be more ubiquitous still by the time '08 rolls around.
A 2.5G iPhone gets laughed out of those markets, literally.
...
At least in Japan, they live by their phones. I think I saw where they even buy items from vending machine by paying with their phones.
it's ho-hum without GPS. It's like, here's this integrated tool that shows you where things are in a highly discernible format, but without a frame of reference as to where you are even though you're using a next-generation phone.
It's a pity that it doesnt even use (afaik) the cell towers to get a ballpark location. I mean, when you turn on Google Maps it could easily be set to your current suburb couldn't it?
Better yet - use the cell towers to really triangulate as this other technology is claimed to do. I imagine it's not as accurate as the proposd broadcom integrated system (otherwise, why integrate it?)
Quote:
Originally Posted by shamino
Maybe I'm missing something, but how can you get your location from Wi-Fi? I know I never configured my home base station with any location coordinates<snip>
Do public-access Wi-Fi hotspots have a location feature my base station doesn't?
I guess it's possible for a wifi base station to give locations (eg: a DHCP server can send all kinds of information) though I don't know if they've got an existing standard. Another possibility is a database of wifi points - there are some wifi scanners which connect to GPS to build a dynamic 'map' of where all the wifi points are, so I'm sure that the reverse could see the name of an access point (secure or not) and look it up via a google database. This would give a street level location.
Quote:
Originally Posted by aegisdesign
I'm hoping someone at some point hooks up a bluetooth GPS module.
Yes that'd be very useful. It just makes sense eh!?
Add a wifi mapping application and iPhones with GPS could start mapping wifi points, and upload wifi locations to google periodically
3G is always on and therefore always using power whether you're browsing the internet or not.
Yeah, but the question is, how much power?
Let's put it this way... I have a cellphone. It's 3G (EVDO), so there's definitely a 3G chip in there. It gets 3.5 hours of talk time, and 210 hours on standby.
So, on stand-by, the 3G chip is obviously drawing very little power.
But what about if the phone is in use, just not 3G use? Well, I know the service menu code for my phone, so I can (and do) go into the service menus and turn off 3G sometimes. It improves the battery life... a little. Maybe 10% more talk time. But nowhere near the night-and-day difference Steve described during the UK event.
Of course, I'm on a different 3G technology... EVDO. It may be that the common Euro 3G technogies (UMTS, HSDPA) are very different and worse in that regard.
If so, now I'm really pissed that Verizon (i.e. plenty o' 3G EVDO) and Apple couldn't work it out.
But another possibility is that Steve is simply exaggerating the battery life problems a bit. Why? Well, maybe 'cuz he doesn't have a 3G iPhone to sell yet...
if 3G is currently unfeasible power-wise, i'd be impressed if they could pull off 3G and GPS by early '08. 2-hour battery life?
I doubt they could do it without make the phone thicker... which won't be appreciated.
I wonder which phone would sell better if a thinner 2G model was offered alongside a thicker 3G model.
Quote:
Originally Posted by shamino
And don't forget the fact that an iPhone pings e-mail and voice-mail servers every couple of minutes - that's also going to draw power.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Amorya
My phone has options for when to use 3G: for calls, for MMS, or just for internet. I've got it set on just internet, and so it only starts the 3G transmitter when I start the web browser. Calls are still made using normal GSM.
I imagine that's quite possible. 3G phones already drop to Edge easily enough when 3G isn't available, why not do it to save power.
The only downside is for the phone companies . 3G is far more efficient for both voice and data, apparently.
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross
It would be nice if it turned on when you tapped on Safari, and went off when you closed it. but, I don't know how it would work.
That's probably the important part. Leave the background email & voicemail pings/checks on the low power Edge. Switch to 3G when the user is involved in the interface so maximum speed is useful.
Off topic: If you're out of range of AT&T, and a voicemail is left, will the phone pick it up at a wifi point?
Cell location isn't accurate enough for live use. Present GPS locators can get to about a meter, or better, in a few cases. WiFi is not nearly ubiquitous enough to be of any use. I'm not sure how accurate it would be.
Quote:
Originally Posted by GregAlexander
It's a pity that it doesnt even use (afaik) the cell towers to get a ballpark location. I mean, when you turn on Google Maps it could easily be set to your current suburb couldn't it?
Better yet - use the cell towers to really triangulate as this other technology is claimed to do. I imagine it's not as accurate as the proposd broadcom integrated system (otherwise, why integrate it?).
Ideally it'd use assisted GPS (i.e. tower triangulation) whenever possible and hit the GPS chip itself once in a while to refine position.
If I recall correctly tower triangulation is good down to 150 feet, and theoretically could be a little better than that but they only need to hit 150 feet for legal purposes (e911).
Quote:
Originally Posted by Denton
I might be wrong, but wouldn't the 3G transmitter always be on? There are probably power-savings modes, but I wonder whether they would double battery life if you weren't "surfing." Anyone know anything about this?
Nah. You can dynamically power it up and down when needed.
Although most phones do use it for voice calls (because it sounds better) it would be trivial to disable this and only use 3G when data needs climbed above a certain threshold (i.e. when web surfing).
Or, like this guy said:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Amorya
My phone has options for when to use 3G: for calls, for MMS, or just for internet. I've got it set on just internet, and so it only starts the 3G transmitter when I start the web browser. Calls are still made using normal GSM.
Quote:
Originally Posted by TBaggins
Yeah, but the question is, how much power? I have a cellphone. It's 3G (EVDO), so there's definitely a 3G chip in there. It gets 3.5 hours of talk time, and 210 hours on standby. So, on stand-by, the 3G chip is obviously drawing very little power.
I can (and do) go into the service menus and turn off 3G sometimes. It improves the battery life... a little. Maybe 10% more talk time. But nowhere near the night-and-day difference Steve described during the UK event.
Of course, I'm on a different 3G technology... EVDO. It may be that the common Euro 3G technogies (UMTS, HSDPA) are very different and worse in that regard.
30% worst case. UMTS is, if anything, probably better than EV-DO just given the fact there are a heck of a lot more development dollars and more commercial chipsets wandering around in UMTS than EV-DO.
The 30% is for Japanese UMTS/GSM phones. Their talk time/standby time on UMTS is up to (usually less than) 30% worse purely on UMTS versus purely on GSM. Obviously the iPhone would power up 3G when needed, so 30% is a worst case (or if you're in Japan/South Korea) scenario.
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross
He doesn't do it because it would make the phone thicker, heavier, and slightly more expensive.
I'd love to see some stats on just how many people actually do buy extra batteries. I'll bet the number is pretty low.
Agreed. What'd be more useful would be an external fast charger. Plug in for a minute and the iPhone's battery is back to half or whatever.
Quote:
Originally Posted by JrDave2304
I really can't see Apple coming out with a 2nd gen 1Q 2008. There were people upset about a price cut 3 months after it's realease and I could only imagine how upset people would be after this, especially so close after the holiday season. I would guess no earlier than 3Q 2008, but I really am just basing this off of a hunch.
The phone market is a lot faster than the computer market. I quite frankly thought that a new 3G model now would have been the best move, although Macworld 2008 was always more likely.
Quote:
Originally Posted by TBaggins
Yep. But Steve's up against a time wall in any case, in that the iPhone must have 3G for the Asian launch (slated for mid-'08). 'Cuz if it doesn't, it's going down in flames over there.
Japan and Korea have MUCH higher 3G penetration rates than the US or even Europe, and 3G will be more ubiquitous still by the time '08 rolls around.
Since neither Korea nor Japan even have GSM or EDGE networks a 3G iPhone is required for those reasons, let alone the sensible market based reasons . Plus of course the other things a Japanese/South Korean iPhone needs like e-cash chip, a better camera, preferably digital TV, preferably GPS, and all the software for QR code handling and other stuff.
F*** yeah. It's a different world out there, market-wise.
Those people are insane about their phones, and phone tech in general.
.
Maybe they are 'insane' about their hardware.
I have heard many Japanese complain about the poor software quality, monopolisitc practices of service providers (e.g., crippled features), and high prices. I have experienced some of these problems myself during travels there (on rented phones). And, I don't know the technical details, but lots of people also complain that the Japanese mobile phone system is pretty much incompatible with just about every other major system in the world.
On top of it all, Japan in general is a declining, low-margin market for Apple. I have a feeling that Apple will pay more attention to China and India before they do Japan and Korea on the iPhone front.
Steve usually does not blab untrue timelines. Steve is known for his accuracy on timelines.
If he said late next year, he probably means late next year. Otherwise he will get a reputation as a liar (or under-player) and people will expect upside on every projection he makes. His track record is more neutral (and extremely impressive at that).
That would be different, but would also require more chips, or at least one. No can do with current model.
Well, obviously they would need a GPS chip to do that, I was talking about the rumour and the possible addition of a GPS chip.
They could still do tower triangulation with the current model, though.
Quote:
Originally Posted by anantksundaram
I have heard many Japanese complain about the poor software quality, monopolisitc practices of service providers (e.g., crippled features), and high prices. I have experienced some of these problems myself during travels there (on rented phones). And, I don't know the technical details, but lots of people also complain that the Japanese mobile phone system is pretty much incompatible with just about every other major system in the world.
On top of it all, Japan in general is a declining, low-margin market for Apple. I have a feeling that Apple will pay more attention to China and India before they do Japan and Korea on the iPhone front.
Although you're right about the arrogance of the operators and the poor quality software those are exactly the areas Apple's been targeting. Odds are Apple partners with Softbank, the hungriest of the operators, and goes full bore.
Two of the three 3G networks in Japan (Softbank & NTT DoCoMo) use 2100 MHz UMTS, just like Europe and most of the world (North America uses 850/1900 MHz UMTS, and Australia uses 850/2100MHz UMTS). You may be thinking of their old 2G network which used PHS instead of CDMA or GSM, but those issues no longer apply.
Japan is a declining low margin market for Apple because they've spent the last few years ignoring it. If Apple spent a few years ignoring the US market (as, argaubly, they did in the 90s) see what happens. Japan (and South Korea) is, however, utterly phone mad and Apple could easily capitalize on that with the right iPhone model.
As for China and India please take a look at the mobile sales in those countries (also note China has weird network standards). Vast and increasing, for the very low margin low end part of the market. Apple does best in high per capita GDP countries (for obvious reasons) and in Asia that mean Japan & South Korea foremost, along with places like Singapore, Australia, and New Zealand.
As for China and India please take a look at the mobile sales in those countries (also note China has weird network standards). Vast and increasing, for the very low margin low end part of the market. Apple does best in high per capita GDP countries (for obvious reasons) and in Asia that mean Japan & South Korea foremost, along with places like Singapore, Australia, and New Zealand.
You know a lot about Japan and Korea, but re. China/India, I am not so sure.
China has about 500 million mobile phone users. India about 250 (to be 500 in another few years). If 0.5% of the current users can be persuaded to buy an iPhone, that's nearly 4 million customers.
I can assure you that there are easily that many consumers in both countries who can quite comfortably plonk down $400 for a mobile phone. For instance, that would work out to 16,000 Indian Rupees, which many well-off Indians do not consider exorbitant for a high-end product. (For instance, it cost me 7000 Indian Rupees for a basic Nokia tri-band phone 3 years ago, when I needed something to be able to use during a visit). And, Apple will not have to deal with the tech hassles from mature consumers and service providers as they would in Japan and Korea, since there is an opportunity to get in on the ground floor.
In any event, we'll just have to wait and see how all this pans out, since all we have now are opinions. You may well be right. Or I.
And, why do you think Apple may have been doing that? I.e., are you saying you are sure of the cause and effect here?
I'd have to agree with Electric Monk... the cause of poor share in Japan for Apple seems to be due to Apple ignoring the market.
For example, Japanese customers have been screaming for Apple to release a subnotebook for years (a market segment that's popular there). Apple just hasn't delivered anything in that space in many years.
So is it really Japan's fault that they don't buy a lot of Apple notebooks? You have to give them the products they want, first. \
You know a lot about Japan and Korea, but re. China/India, I am not so sure.
China has about 500 million mobile phone users. India about 250 (to be 500 in another few years). If 0.5% of the current users can be persuaded to buy an iPhone, that's nearly 4 million customers.
Japan still has a larger GDP than China and India... combined. And is obviously a huge market, especially for cellphones. Korea is nothing to sneeze at either.
Thus, Apple would be a bit nuts to not want to sell to them. Its not like 3G and advanced features are terribly hard to provide... companies with far less software prowess than Apple have been doing it for years now.
Obviously, Apple wants to sell to China and India and Japan and South Korea. There's no huge reason for an 'either/or' scenario.
He doesn't do it because it would make the phone thicker, heavier, and slightly more expensive.
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross
It would also have the tendency of having the battery pop out the way I see it happen with many other phones that people drop. The phone hits the ground, and the battery, and door, if there is a separate one, go flying.
I'd love to see some stats on just how many people actually do buy extra batteries. I'll bet the number is pretty low.
I have owned countless cell phone as have most everyone I know and I can tell you that not a one has ever had to purchase a battery. I usually end up purchasing a new phone as do those I know. Afterall in a lot of cases you can get a new phone for not too much more than you'd spend on a battery.
I have owned countless cell phone as have most everyone I know and I can tell you that not a one has ever had to purchase a battery. I usually end up purchasing a new phone as do those I know. Afterall in a lot of cases you can get a new phone for not too much more than you'd spend on a battery.
I bought an extra battery for my RAZR. That thing wouldn't hold a charge longer than 24 hours. If I ever traveled anywhere, I was either tied to an electrical outlet or out of juice.
I agree that a lot of people get another phone instead of replacing their battery, but we're talking people who can get a phone upgrade for free v. needing to purchase another iPhone for $600.
It is likely that when my iPhone battery dies, I will have already upgraded to the 3G/GPS phone provided it is available then. I don't foresee me needing a battery for another two years. The battery life of the iPhone has been highly exaggerated.
I have owned countless cell phone as have most everyone I know and I can tell you that not a one has ever had to purchase a battery. I usually end up purchasing a new phone as do those I know. Afterall in a lot of cases you can get a new phone for not too much more than you'd spend on a battery.
I've gotten a new battery, as has a friend of mine. In neither case was it to "have two batteries" to swap back and forth, though. My friend beat her battery into the ground over the course of daily charging for two years, and in my case I was just lazy and wanted an extended batt so I'd hardly ever have to recharge it.
I have owned countless cell phone as have most everyone I know and I can tell you that not a one has ever had to purchase a battery. I usually end up purchasing a new phone as do those I know. Afterall in a lot of cases you can get a new phone for not too much more than you'd spend on a battery.
Comments
Yep. But Steve's up against a time wall in any case, in that the iPhone must have 3G for the Asian launch (slated for mid-'08). 'Cuz if it doesn't, it's going down in flames over there.
Japan and Korea have MUCH higher 3G penetration rates than the US or even Europe, and 3G will be more ubiquitous still by the time '08 rolls around.
A 2.5G iPhone gets laughed out of those markets, literally.
...
At least in Japan, they live by their phones. I think I saw where they even buy items from vending machine by paying with their phones.
it's ho-hum without GPS. It's like, here's this integrated tool that shows you where things are in a highly discernible format, but without a frame of reference as to where you are even though you're using a next-generation phone.
It's a pity that it doesnt even use (afaik) the cell towers to get a ballpark location. I mean, when you turn on Google Maps it could easily be set to your current suburb couldn't it?
Better yet - use the cell towers to really triangulate as this other technology is claimed to do. I imagine it's not as accurate as the proposd broadcom integrated system (otherwise, why integrate it?)
Maybe I'm missing something, but how can you get your location from Wi-Fi? I know I never configured my home base station with any location coordinates<snip>
Do public-access Wi-Fi hotspots have a location feature my base station doesn't?
I guess it's possible for a wifi base station to give locations (eg: a DHCP server can send all kinds of information) though I don't know if they've got an existing standard. Another possibility is a database of wifi points - there are some wifi scanners which connect to GPS to build a dynamic 'map' of where all the wifi points are, so I'm sure that the reverse could see the name of an access point (secure or not) and look it up via a google database. This would give a street level location.
I'm hoping someone at some point hooks up a bluetooth GPS module.
Yes that'd be very useful. It just makes sense eh!?
Add a wifi mapping application and iPhones with GPS could start mapping wifi points, and upload wifi locations to google periodically
3G is always on and therefore always using power whether you're browsing the internet or not.
Yeah, but the question is, how much power?
Let's put it this way... I have a cellphone. It's 3G (EVDO), so there's definitely a 3G chip in there. It gets 3.5 hours of talk time, and 210 hours on standby.
So, on stand-by, the 3G chip is obviously drawing very little power.
But what about if the phone is in use, just not 3G use? Well, I know the service menu code for my phone, so I can (and do) go into the service menus and turn off 3G sometimes. It improves the battery life... a little. Maybe 10% more talk time. But nowhere near the night-and-day difference Steve described during the UK event.
Of course, I'm on a different 3G technology... EVDO. It may be that the common Euro 3G technogies (UMTS, HSDPA) are very different and worse in that regard.
If so, now I'm really pissed that Verizon (i.e. plenty o' 3G EVDO) and Apple couldn't work it out.
But another possibility is that Steve is simply exaggerating the battery life problems a bit. Why? Well, maybe 'cuz he doesn't have a 3G iPhone to sell yet...
.
if 3G is currently unfeasible power-wise, i'd be impressed if they could pull off 3G and GPS by early '08. 2-hour battery life?
I doubt they could do it without make the phone thicker... which won't be appreciated.
I wonder which phone would sell better if a thinner 2G model was offered alongside a thicker 3G model.
And don't forget the fact that an iPhone pings e-mail and voice-mail servers every couple of minutes - that's also going to draw power.
My phone has options for when to use 3G: for calls, for MMS, or just for internet. I've got it set on just internet, and so it only starts the 3G transmitter when I start the web browser. Calls are still made using normal GSM.
I imagine that's quite possible. 3G phones already drop to Edge easily enough when 3G isn't available, why not do it to save power.
The only downside is for the phone companies
It would be nice if it turned on when you tapped on Safari, and went off when you closed it. but, I don't know how it would work.
That's probably the important part. Leave the background email & voicemail pings/checks on the low power Edge. Switch to 3G when the user is involved in the interface so maximum speed is useful.
Off topic: If you're out of range of AT&T, and a voicemail is left, will the phone pick it up at a wifi point?
At least in Japan, they live by their phones. I think I saw where they even buy items from vending machine by paying with their phones.
F*** yeah. It's a different world out there, market-wise.
Those people are insane about their phones, and phone tech in general.
.
Cell location isn't accurate enough for live use. Present GPS locators can get to about a meter, or better, in a few cases. WiFi is not nearly ubiquitous enough to be of any use. I'm not sure how accurate it would be.
It's a pity that it doesnt even use (afaik) the cell towers to get a ballpark location. I mean, when you turn on Google Maps it could easily be set to your current suburb couldn't it?
Better yet - use the cell towers to really triangulate as this other technology is claimed to do. I imagine it's not as accurate as the proposd broadcom integrated system (otherwise, why integrate it?).
Ideally it'd use assisted GPS (i.e. tower triangulation) whenever possible and hit the GPS chip itself once in a while to refine position.
If I recall correctly tower triangulation is good down to 150 feet, and theoretically could be a little better than that but they only need to hit 150 feet for legal purposes (e911).
I might be wrong, but wouldn't the 3G transmitter always be on? There are probably power-savings modes, but I wonder whether they would double battery life if you weren't "surfing." Anyone know anything about this?
Nah. You can dynamically power it up and down when needed.
Although most phones do use it for voice calls (because it sounds better) it would be trivial to disable this and only use 3G when data needs climbed above a certain threshold (i.e. when web surfing).
Or, like this guy said:
My phone has options for when to use 3G: for calls, for MMS, or just for internet. I've got it set on just internet, and so it only starts the 3G transmitter when I start the web browser. Calls are still made using normal GSM.
Yeah, but the question is, how much power? I have a cellphone. It's 3G (EVDO), so there's definitely a 3G chip in there. It gets 3.5 hours of talk time, and 210 hours on standby. So, on stand-by, the 3G chip is obviously drawing very little power.
I can (and do) go into the service menus and turn off 3G sometimes. It improves the battery life... a little. Maybe 10% more talk time. But nowhere near the night-and-day difference Steve described during the UK event.
Of course, I'm on a different 3G technology... EVDO. It may be that the common Euro 3G technogies (UMTS, HSDPA) are very different and worse in that regard.
30% worst case. UMTS is, if anything, probably better than EV-DO just given the fact there are a heck of a lot more development dollars and more commercial chipsets wandering around in UMTS than EV-DO.
The 30% is for Japanese UMTS/GSM phones. Their talk time/standby time on UMTS is up to (usually less than) 30% worse purely on UMTS versus purely on GSM. Obviously the iPhone would power up 3G when needed, so 30% is a worst case (or if you're in Japan/South Korea) scenario.
He doesn't do it because it would make the phone thicker, heavier, and slightly more expensive.
I'd love to see some stats on just how many people actually do buy extra batteries. I'll bet the number is pretty low.
Agreed. What'd be more useful would be an external fast charger. Plug in for a minute and the iPhone's battery is back to half or whatever.
I really can't see Apple coming out with a 2nd gen 1Q 2008. There were people upset about a price cut 3 months after it's realease and I could only imagine how upset people would be after this, especially so close after the holiday season. I would guess no earlier than 3Q 2008, but I really am just basing this off of a hunch.
The phone market is a lot faster than the computer market. I quite frankly thought that a new 3G model now would have been the best move, although Macworld 2008 was always more likely.
Yep. But Steve's up against a time wall in any case, in that the iPhone must have 3G for the Asian launch (slated for mid-'08). 'Cuz if it doesn't, it's going down in flames over there.
Japan and Korea have MUCH higher 3G penetration rates than the US or even Europe, and 3G will be more ubiquitous still by the time '08 rolls around.
Since neither Korea nor Japan even have GSM or EDGE networks a 3G iPhone is required for those reasons, let alone the sensible market based reasons
Ideally it'd use assisted GPS (i.e. tower triangulation) whenever possible and hit the GPS chip itself once in a while to refine position.
That would be different, but would also require more chips, or at least one. No can do with current model.
F*** yeah. It's a different world out there, market-wise.
Those people are insane about their phones, and phone tech in general.
.
Maybe they are 'insane' about their hardware.
I have heard many Japanese complain about the poor software quality, monopolisitc practices of service providers (e.g., crippled features), and high prices. I have experienced some of these problems myself during travels there (on rented phones). And, I don't know the technical details, but lots of people also complain that the Japanese mobile phone system is pretty much incompatible with just about every other major system in the world.
On top of it all, Japan in general is a declining, low-margin market for Apple. I have a feeling that Apple will pay more attention to China and India before they do Japan and Korea on the iPhone front.
If he said late next year, he probably means late next year. Otherwise he will get a reputation as a liar (or under-player) and people will expect upside on every projection he makes. His track record is more neutral (and extremely impressive at that).
That would be different, but would also require more chips, or at least one. No can do with current model.
Well, obviously they would need a GPS chip to do that, I was talking about the rumour and the possible addition of a GPS chip.
They could still do tower triangulation with the current model, though.
I have heard many Japanese complain about the poor software quality, monopolisitc practices of service providers (e.g., crippled features), and high prices. I have experienced some of these problems myself during travels there (on rented phones). And, I don't know the technical details, but lots of people also complain that the Japanese mobile phone system is pretty much incompatible with just about every other major system in the world.
On top of it all, Japan in general is a declining, low-margin market for Apple. I have a feeling that Apple will pay more attention to China and India before they do Japan and Korea on the iPhone front.
Although you're right about the arrogance of the operators and the poor quality software those are exactly the areas Apple's been targeting. Odds are Apple partners with Softbank, the hungriest of the operators, and goes full bore.
Two of the three 3G networks in Japan (Softbank & NTT DoCoMo) use 2100 MHz UMTS, just like Europe and most of the world (North America uses 850/1900 MHz UMTS, and Australia uses 850/2100MHz UMTS). You may be thinking of their old 2G network which used PHS instead of CDMA or GSM, but those issues no longer apply.
Japan is a declining low margin market for Apple because they've spent the last few years ignoring it. If Apple spent a few years ignoring the US market (as, argaubly, they did in the 90s) see what happens. Japan (and South Korea) is, however, utterly phone mad and Apple could easily capitalize on that with the right iPhone model.
As for China and India please take a look at the mobile sales in those countries (also note China has weird network standards). Vast and increasing, for the very low margin low end part of the market. Apple does best in high per capita GDP countries (for obvious reasons) and in Asia that mean Japan & South Korea foremost, along with places like Singapore, Australia, and New Zealand.
As for China and India please take a look at the mobile sales in those countries (also note China has weird network standards). Vast and increasing, for the very low margin low end part of the market. Apple does best in high per capita GDP countries (for obvious reasons) and in Asia that mean Japan & South Korea foremost, along with places like Singapore, Australia, and New Zealand.
You know a lot about Japan and Korea, but re. China/India, I am not so sure.
China has about 500 million mobile phone users. India about 250 (to be 500 in another few years). If 0.5% of the current users can be persuaded to buy an iPhone, that's nearly 4 million customers.
I can assure you that there are easily that many consumers in both countries who can quite comfortably plonk down $400 for a mobile phone. For instance, that would work out to 16,000 Indian Rupees, which many well-off Indians do not consider exorbitant for a high-end product. (For instance, it cost me 7000 Indian Rupees for a basic Nokia tri-band phone 3 years ago, when I needed something to be able to use during a visit). And, Apple will not have to deal with the tech hassles from mature consumers and service providers as they would in Japan and Korea, since there is an opportunity to get in on the ground floor.
In any event, we'll just have to wait and see how all this pans out, since all we have now are opinions. You may well be right. Or I.
Japan is a declining low margin market for Apple because they've spent the last few years ignoring it.
And, why do you think Apple may have been doing that? I.e., are you saying you are sure of the cause and effect here?
And, why do you think Apple may have been doing that? I.e., are you saying you are sure of the cause and effect here?
I'd have to agree with Electric Monk... the cause of poor share in Japan for Apple seems to be due to Apple ignoring the market.
For example, Japanese customers have been screaming for Apple to release a subnotebook for years (a market segment that's popular there). Apple just hasn't delivered anything in that space in many years.
So is it really Japan's fault that they don't buy a lot of Apple notebooks? You have to give them the products they want, first.
.
You know a lot about Japan and Korea, but re. China/India, I am not so sure.
China has about 500 million mobile phone users. India about 250 (to be 500 in another few years). If 0.5% of the current users can be persuaded to buy an iPhone, that's nearly 4 million customers.
Japan still has a larger GDP than China and India... combined. And is obviously a huge market, especially for cellphones. Korea is nothing to sneeze at either.
Thus, Apple would be a bit nuts to not want to sell to them. Its not like 3G and advanced features are terribly hard to provide... companies with far less software prowess than Apple have been doing it for years now.
Obviously, Apple wants to sell to China and India and Japan and South Korea. There's no huge reason for an 'either/or' scenario.
.
Originally Posted by melgross
He doesn't do it because it would make the phone thicker, heavier, and slightly more expensive.
It would also have the tendency of having the battery pop out the way I see it happen with many other phones that people drop. The phone hits the ground, and the battery, and door, if there is a separate one, go flying.
I'd love to see some stats on just how many people actually do buy extra batteries. I'll bet the number is pretty low.
I have owned countless cell phone as have most everyone I know and I can tell you that not a one has ever had to purchase a battery. I usually end up purchasing a new phone as do those I know. Afterall in a lot of cases you can get a new phone for not too much more than you'd spend on a battery.
I have owned countless cell phone as have most everyone I know and I can tell you that not a one has ever had to purchase a battery. I usually end up purchasing a new phone as do those I know. Afterall in a lot of cases you can get a new phone for not too much more than you'd spend on a battery.
I bought an extra battery for my RAZR. That thing wouldn't hold a charge longer than 24 hours. If I ever traveled anywhere, I was either tied to an electrical outlet or out of juice.
I agree that a lot of people get another phone instead of replacing their battery, but we're talking people who can get a phone upgrade for free v. needing to purchase another iPhone for $600.
It is likely that when my iPhone battery dies, I will have already upgraded to the 3G/GPS phone provided it is available then. I don't foresee me needing a battery for another two years. The battery life of the iPhone has been highly exaggerated.
I have owned countless cell phone as have most everyone I know and I can tell you that not a one has ever had to purchase a battery. I usually end up purchasing a new phone as do those I know. Afterall in a lot of cases you can get a new phone for not too much more than you'd spend on a battery.
I've gotten a new battery, as has a friend of mine. In neither case was it to "have two batteries" to swap back and forth, though. My friend beat her battery into the ground over the course of daily charging for two years, and in my case I was just lazy and wanted an extended batt so I'd hardly ever have to recharge it.
.
Well, obviously they would need a GPS chip to do that, I was talking about the rumour and the possible addition of a GPS chip.
Ok, I thought it read as though you were saying they could do that now.
They could still do tower triangulation with the current model, though.
Of course, but it's not nearly enough for navigation.
I have owned countless cell phone as have most everyone I know and I can tell you that not a one has ever had to purchase a battery. I usually end up purchasing a new phone as do those I know. Afterall in a lot of cases you can get a new phone for not too much more than you'd spend on a battery.
That's my experience as well.