It is likely that when my iPhone battery dies, I will have already upgraded to the 3G/GPS phone provided it is available then. I don't foresee me needing a battery for another two years. The battery life of the iPhone has been highly exaggerated.
Do you mean to say that the "poor" battery life of the iPhone has been highly exaggerated? That's the way what you've said actually reads.
You are really facing a self-made dilemma. You can buy a current iPhone and sell it when a new version comes out if that's feasible. Even if a 3G, GPS-enabled iPhone is introduced, there's no guarantee that the US will get it first (I don't know if you're in the US or not). Or you can buy some other inexpensive handset with a short-term contract and wait it out for the next iPhone model. I'd make the latter choice, but my opinion is worthless since I don't even own a cellphone.
I think I will prolly end up going with the later. I would go/want to go for the Blackberry Curve, except for the data plan costing an additional $29.99/month.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Electric Monk
The phone market is a lot faster than the computer market. I quite frankly thought that a new 3G model now would have been the best move, although Macworld 2008 was always more likely.
Yeah I think you're right. Let's hope for a Macworld 2008 introduction of an iPhone with all the features we all want/need. Though, I was hoping for this a little sooner because of my situation above!
3G is always on and therefore always using power whether you're browsing the internet or not.
This is not true of most phones I've used. You can switch 3G off entirely. Where I live it's borderline 3G on some providers so the phone spends all it's time switching back and forth. Because of that it's often better to switch 3G off and revert to plain old GPRS.
We want a full computer in our hands. Now possible with Intel Silverthorne chip...
Sony has been shipping these for a few years now. A full-blown PC, and portable (fits in a handbag, not pocket size.)
But I assume that's not what you were thinking of. You want a full-blown computer, the size of an iPhone, and at the price of an iPod. IMO, that will always be wishful thinking.
Quote:
Originally Posted by freelander51
If you surf the net every day for two straight hours to and fro you will get seriously bored. At the end of the day "one" settles for one or two news sites and maybe a sports site.
Oh and how about that old analogue and reliable friend when commuting called "a good book" or a magazine ?
I love these kinds of replies. Someone asks a question, I answer, then someone else says "I wouldn't do that, so you shouldn't either."
Maybe you would never surf the web for two hours a day. I usually do. Every day I read four mailboxes, 30 webcomics, MacInTouch, MacBytes, my LJ Friends, and 20 RSS feeds. Depending on the level of activity and the number of interesting articles, it takes between 30 minutes and 3 hours to get through it all.
If I commuted by bus or train, you can be certain I'd want to use that time doing my daily surfing.
Quote:
Originally Posted by anantksundaram
Does Apple make car adapters for iPods (let alone iPhones)? Or do third party providers?
Apple doesn't make any, but many other companies do. The Apple Store resells devices from Belkin, Griffin, Kensington, Monster, and XtremeMac. Some are straight chargers, and some bundle FM transmitters.
Also, many car stereos include (or offer as an option) iPod integration kits, where a single dock-cable pulls audio from the iPod, allows the stereo to control it, and charges it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by TBaggins
Yep. But Steve's up against a time wall in any case, in that the iPhone must have 3G for the Asian launch (slated for mid-'08). 'Cuz if it doesn't, it's going down in flames over there.
I assume this is one of the reasons Apple is starting to sell iPhones in Europe and they haven't yet announced anything in Asia. That announcement probably won't happen until they can get suitable 3G chipsets (that is, small enough, light enough, and low-enough power consumption.)
Quote:
Originally Posted by TBaggins
If so, now I'm really pissed that Verizon (i.e. plenty o' 3G EVDO) and Apple couldn't work it out.
Verizon won't let anything on their network unless they can cripple the phone. A Verizon-compatible iPhone would have the entire user interface removed, and replaced with the same brain-dead menu interface that they use on all their other phones. They'd probably also insist on disabling Wi-Fi, and block iTunes, so you can only move data in/out by going through their "get it now" service. You wouldn't want to buy the result.
And then there are more reasonable reasons why Verizon will balk, including the fact that they'll need to install new back-end software to make visual voice-mail work, and the fact that Apple wants a percentage of every user's monthly bill (like they get from AT&T).
Combined with the fact that Apple has a five-year exclusive contract with AT&T for US service, I don't think we'll see a CDMA/EVDO iPhone from Verizon for a very long time. Which is a real pity, because I would love to have one.
Quote:
Originally Posted by TBaggins
But another possibility is that Steve is simply exaggerating the battery life problems a bit. Why? Well, maybe 'cuz he doesn't have a 3G iPhone to sell yet...
That wouldn't surprise me either. I remember when the iMac/G4 was sold, that Steve went on at length about how vertical-oriented optical drives always have lousy performance. He stuck by this story for years, right up until the iMac/G5 shipped, with a vertical optical drive.
So you're right to be skeptical about Steve's statements. I'm sure he's not lying, but I doubt he's telling the whole truth either.
A Verizon-compatible iPhone would have the entire user interface removed, and replaced with the same brain-dead menu interface that they use on all their other phones. They'd probably also insist on disabling Wi-Fi, and block iTunes, so you can only move data in/out by going through their "get it now" service. You wouldn't want to buy the result.
HA!
The iPhone is almost there for Verizon software wise.
Can't use it in disk mode, Can't use it as a modem, Bluetooth crippled, Can't install software of your own, Overly simplistic interface with many missing features, Can't use any music as a ringtone, email crippled unless you use Yahoo.
Apple is the new Verizon.
However, call me naïve but I have some actual faith in Apple adding features over the next two years as they've promised when the carriers tend to not add features in their ROM updates over fixing bugs in the original ROMs.
Its still different. Verizon disables these functions so they can charge you extra for their use. Most all of the functions on the iPhone don't have an extra charge.
Even with the ring tone situation. Which I feel are annoying in general and people are stupid to pay for. With Verizon, Sprint, T-Mobile you pay more, have a limited time to use the ring tone, and have to pay for it again.
Its still different. Verizon disables these functions so they can charge you extra for their use. Most all of the functions on the iPhone don't have an extra charge.
Even with the ring tone situation. Which I feel are annoying in general and people are stupid to pay for. With Verizon, Sprint, T-Mobile you pay more, have a limited time to use the ring tone, and have to pay for it again.
I was joking somewhat but to us in the UK who don't usually have restrictions on bluetooth, modems, ringtones it appears more like Apple are the new Verizon than not. Ringtones is a prime example. Every phone I've had in the last 6 years, regardless of carrier, has been able to select any mp3 track as the ringtone without paying a penny.
I was joking somewhat but to us in the UK who don't usually have restrictions on bluetooth, modems, ringtones it appears more like Apple are the new Verizon than not.
It does suck as those restrictions are an extension of the crappy mobile service in the US. A lot is going to happen between now and November. So I would imagine this conversation will be different by them.
The ring tone situation is a sticky one for Apple. None of the other cell phone manufacturers developed the leading on-line media downloading service. So they are free to allow mp3's to be used as ring tones. Apple is trying to squeeze more concessions from the record labels. Those negotiations would fall apart if Apple participated in taking their 6 billion dollar ring tone business away from them.
I love these kinds of replies. Someone asks a question, I answer, then someone else says "I wouldn't do that, so you shouldn't either."
Maybe you would never surf the web for two hours a day. I usually do.
Very well said. I personally find "I don't do that, you shouldn't either" responses annoying as well, and fairly pointless.
Quote:
Verizon won't let anything on their network unless they can cripple the phone.
To be fair, Verizon has started to hear some of the criticism, and the Bluetooth stack on many of their newer phones is a lot more functional than it used to be.
No, you're still not going to be able to transfer ringtones wherever you want (tho' there's workarounds for that), but overall, they're crippling bluetooth a lot less now.
Meanwhile, take a look at the BT stack on the iPhone... just about nothing works 'cept the headset and hands-free profiles, last I checked. That's actually a lot less BT functionality than most recent VZW phones.
Quote:
A Verizon-compatible iPhone would have the entire user interface removed, and replaced with the same brain-dead menu interface that they use on all their other phones. They'd probably also insist on disabling Wi-Fi, and block iTunes, so you can only move data in/out by going through their "get it now" service. You wouldn't want to buy the result.
Obviously, those would be deal-breakers for Apple. They're not going to give up the iPhone UI, and they're not going to herd users to Verizon's crappy WMA-centric 'VCast Music' store. It's my hope that the iPhone will be successful enough to make VZW have to compromise, at some point.
Quote:
And then there are more reasonable reasons why Verizon will balk, including the fact that they'll need to install new back-end software to make visual voice-mail work, and the fact that Apple wants a percentage of every user's monthly bill (like they get from AT&T).
Well, I think visual voicemail is the future, regardless... at some point VZW will have to support it. Far as balking at Apple's terms, again, it's a business deal- if the iPhone is doing well enough, at some point VZW does better by doing a deal with Apple than not doing one.
But it's also probably VZW's hope that the upcoming wave of 'iPhone clones' do well enough that either there's no need for VZW to cut a deal with Apple, or if they do cut a deal, it's on terms more favorable to VZW.
Quote:
Combined with the fact that Apple has a five-year exclusive contract with AT&T for US service, I don't think we'll see a CDMA/EVDO iPhone from Verizon for a very long time. Which is a real pity, because I would love to have one.
Actually, there's been some rumors that the ATT exclusive is only rock-solid for two years, with an option to go five, if both parties agree.
If so, I wouldn't expect Apple to agree. Why sell to only 25% of the US market (ATT's share), when you call sell to over 85% of it by doing deals with all of the 'Big Four' national carriers?
Quote:
That wouldn't surprise me either. I remember when the iMac/G4 was sold, that Steve went on at length about how vertical-oriented optical drives always have lousy performance. He stuck by this story for years, right up until the iMac/G5 shipped, with a vertical optical drive.
So you're right to be skeptical about Steve's statements. I'm sure he's not lying, but I doubt he's telling the whole truth either.
Steve's a... salesman, first and foremost. That's prolly the nicest way of putting it. But I'm glad that he's Apple's salesman.
3G would finally make the iPhone a must have device and I still don't think we have the whole story on why it isn't 3G right now. For sure, 3G is rolling out slowly in the USA but a 3D phone can also use 2G and 2.5G.
GPS... well, it would be OK but I wonder it it would really be more of a gimmick.
3G combined with some VOIP and other cool apps would make me rush out and buy an iPhone today.
GPS... well, it would be OK but I wonder it it would really be more of a gimmick.
When was the last time you were in a motor factors?
In the UK at least, they're wall to wall GPS units, TomTom, Magellan etc. The iPhone with GPS and TomTom GO installed on it would be very popular instead of a separate GPS unit.
Sure, they're mostly gimmicks too, but they sell a lot.
When was the last time you were in a motor factors?
In the UK at least, they're wall to wall GPS units, TomTom, Magellan etc. The iPhone with GPS and TomTom GO installed on it would be very popular instead of a separate GPS unit.
Sure, they're mostly gimmicks too, but they sell a lot.
The only problem I see with that, is that most of the auto GPS models I see here also have audio. The phone won't, at least, not without an accessory.
The better models also have bigger screens. you don't want a small screen when you're in traffic, and have to glance over to read where the next turn is.
The only problem I see with that, is that most of the auto GPS models I see here also have audio. The phone won't, at least, not without an accessory.
The better models also have bigger screens. you don't want a small screen when you're in traffic, and have to glance over to read where the next turn is.
?? Confused
Melgross, please, you are not telling me that the iPhone has not got a hands free speaker are you?
Melgross, please, you are not telling me that the iPhone has not got a hands free speaker are you?
I get it, you are probably talking about google maps not having sound i guess.
That is a point though i would imagine a good move for google would be proper maps that they can try and licence to SatNav manufacturers, putting a real SatNav application on the iPhone would be the only point of including GPS.
When was the last time you were in a motor factors?
In the UK at least, they're wall to wall GPS units, TomTom, Magellan etc. The iPhone with GPS and TomTom GO installed on it would be very popular instead of a separate GPS unit.
Sure, they're mostly gimmicks too, but they sell a lot.
Second that, although would not go as far as calling them gimmicks. It seems that everyone has a SatNav in their car now - i do! They are incredibly useful and getting better all the time with live traffic updates, nearest petrol station, macdonalds, speed traps etc..
All this talk about how using cells as a better alternative to GPS can only be said by people who have never used a GPS, nothing is better.
For interest have a look at the new Galileo system that the EU are currently building, they say it will end up running the entire road network in Europe charging every user for every km they drive.
Sat Navs are very popular in the UK - I won't get a car without.
I was thinking that an iPhone with GPS & sat nave would be a great all in product & a rival to TomTom.
Most units now have music, photos, BT phone & nav - Apple have a real potential to produce a very compelling product. Could be a seperate device, or use an iPhone with additional software & gps unit - a combined device would be better IMHO though!
Comments
It is likely that when my iPhone battery dies, I will have already upgraded to the 3G/GPS phone provided it is available then. I don't foresee me needing a battery for another two years. The battery life of the iPhone has been highly exaggerated.
Do you mean to say that the "poor" battery life of the iPhone has been highly exaggerated? That's the way what you've said actually reads.
Do you mean to say that the "poor" battery life of the iPhone has been highly exaggerated? That's the way what you've said actually reads.
Yes. 80% charge after 300-400 cycles is pretty good. Too many people think you need to replace the battery after only a year.
You are really facing a self-made dilemma. You can buy a current iPhone and sell it when a new version comes out if that's feasible. Even if a 3G, GPS-enabled iPhone is introduced, there's no guarantee that the US will get it first (I don't know if you're in the US or not). Or you can buy some other inexpensive handset with a short-term contract and wait it out for the next iPhone model. I'd make the latter choice, but my opinion is worthless since I don't even own a cellphone.
I think I will prolly end up going with the later. I would go/want to go for the Blackberry Curve, except for the data plan costing an additional $29.99/month.
The phone market is a lot faster than the computer market. I quite frankly thought that a new 3G model now would have been the best move, although Macworld 2008 was always more likely.
Yeah I think you're right. Let's hope for a Macworld 2008 introduction of an iPhone with all the features we all want/need. Though, I was hoping for this a little sooner because of my situation above!
3G is always on and therefore always using power whether you're browsing the internet or not.
This is not true of most phones I've used. You can switch 3G off entirely. Where I live it's borderline 3G on some providers so the phone spends all it's time switching back and forth. Because of that it's often better to switch 3G off and revert to plain old GPRS.
Of course, but it's not nearly enough for navigation.
Tower triangulation would at least put you on the right page in GoogleMaps though to start with which would be useful enough walking if not driving.
We want a full computer in our hands. Now possible with Intel Silverthorne chip...
Sony has been shipping these for a few years now. A full-blown PC, and portable (fits in a handbag, not pocket size.)
But I assume that's not what you were thinking of. You want a full-blown computer, the size of an iPhone, and at the price of an iPod. IMO, that will always be wishful thinking.
If you surf the net every day for two straight hours to and fro you will get seriously bored. At the end of the day "one" settles for one or two news sites and maybe a sports site.
Oh and how about that old analogue and reliable friend when commuting called "a good book" or a magazine ?
I love these kinds of replies. Someone asks a question, I answer, then someone else says "I wouldn't do that, so you shouldn't either."
Maybe you would never surf the web for two hours a day. I usually do. Every day I read four mailboxes, 30 webcomics, MacInTouch, MacBytes, my LJ Friends, and 20 RSS feeds. Depending on the level of activity and the number of interesting articles, it takes between 30 minutes and 3 hours to get through it all.
If I commuted by bus or train, you can be certain I'd want to use that time doing my daily surfing.
Does Apple make car adapters for iPods (let alone iPhones)? Or do third party providers?
Apple doesn't make any, but many other companies do. The Apple Store resells devices from Belkin, Griffin, Kensington, Monster, and XtremeMac. Some are straight chargers, and some bundle FM transmitters.
Also, many car stereos include (or offer as an option) iPod integration kits, where a single dock-cable pulls audio from the iPod, allows the stereo to control it, and charges it.
Yep. But Steve's up against a time wall in any case, in that the iPhone must have 3G for the Asian launch (slated for mid-'08). 'Cuz if it doesn't, it's going down in flames over there.
I assume this is one of the reasons Apple is starting to sell iPhones in Europe and they haven't yet announced anything in Asia. That announcement probably won't happen until they can get suitable 3G chipsets (that is, small enough, light enough, and low-enough power consumption.)
If so, now I'm really pissed that Verizon (i.e. plenty o' 3G EVDO) and Apple couldn't work it out.
Verizon won't let anything on their network unless they can cripple the phone. A Verizon-compatible iPhone would have the entire user interface removed, and replaced with the same brain-dead menu interface that they use on all their other phones. They'd probably also insist on disabling Wi-Fi, and block iTunes, so you can only move data in/out by going through their "get it now" service. You wouldn't want to buy the result.
And then there are more reasonable reasons why Verizon will balk, including the fact that they'll need to install new back-end software to make visual voice-mail work, and the fact that Apple wants a percentage of every user's monthly bill (like they get from AT&T).
Combined with the fact that Apple has a five-year exclusive contract with AT&T for US service, I don't think we'll see a CDMA/EVDO iPhone from Verizon for a very long time. Which is a real pity, because I would love to have one.
But another possibility is that Steve is simply exaggerating the battery life problems a bit. Why? Well, maybe 'cuz he doesn't have a 3G iPhone to sell yet...
That wouldn't surprise me either. I remember when the iMac/G4 was sold, that Steve went on at length about how vertical-oriented optical drives always have lousy performance. He stuck by this story for years, right up until the iMac/G5 shipped, with a vertical optical drive.
So you're right to be skeptical about Steve's statements. I'm sure he's not lying, but I doubt he's telling the whole truth either.
A Verizon-compatible iPhone would have the entire user interface removed, and replaced with the same brain-dead menu interface that they use on all their other phones. They'd probably also insist on disabling Wi-Fi, and block iTunes, so you can only move data in/out by going through their "get it now" service. You wouldn't want to buy the result.
HA!
The iPhone is almost there for Verizon software wise.
Can't use it in disk mode, Can't use it as a modem, Bluetooth crippled, Can't install software of your own, Overly simplistic interface with many missing features, Can't use any music as a ringtone, email crippled unless you use Yahoo.
Apple is the new Verizon.
However, call me naïve but I have some actual faith in Apple adding features over the next two years as they've promised when the carriers tend to not add features in their ROM updates over fixing bugs in the original ROMs.
Apple is the new Verizon.
Its still different. Verizon disables these functions so they can charge you extra for their use. Most all of the functions on the iPhone don't have an extra charge.
Even with the ring tone situation. Which I feel are annoying in general and people are stupid to pay for. With Verizon, Sprint, T-Mobile you pay more, have a limited time to use the ring tone, and have to pay for it again.
Its still different. Verizon disables these functions so they can charge you extra for their use. Most all of the functions on the iPhone don't have an extra charge.
Even with the ring tone situation. Which I feel are annoying in general and people are stupid to pay for. With Verizon, Sprint, T-Mobile you pay more, have a limited time to use the ring tone, and have to pay for it again.
I was joking somewhat but to us in the UK who don't usually have restrictions on bluetooth, modems, ringtones it appears more like Apple are the new Verizon than not. Ringtones is a prime example. Every phone I've had in the last 6 years, regardless of carrier, has been able to select any mp3 track as the ringtone without paying a penny.
Tower triangulation would at least put you on the right page in GoogleMaps though to start with which would be useful enough walking if not driving.
Agreed, but that's not what most people would expect from it.
I was joking somewhat but to us in the UK who don't usually have restrictions on bluetooth, modems, ringtones it appears more like Apple are the new Verizon than not.
It does suck as those restrictions are an extension of the crappy mobile service in the US. A lot is going to happen between now and November. So I would imagine this conversation will be different by them.
The ring tone situation is a sticky one for Apple. None of the other cell phone manufacturers developed the leading on-line media downloading service. So they are free to allow mp3's to be used as ring tones. Apple is trying to squeeze more concessions from the record labels. Those negotiations would fall apart if Apple participated in taking their 6 billion dollar ring tone business away from them.
I love these kinds of replies. Someone asks a question, I answer, then someone else says "I wouldn't do that, so you shouldn't either."
Maybe you would never surf the web for two hours a day. I usually do.
Very well said. I personally find "I don't do that, you shouldn't either" responses annoying as well, and fairly pointless.
Verizon won't let anything on their network unless they can cripple the phone.
To be fair, Verizon has started to hear some of the criticism, and the Bluetooth stack on many of their newer phones is a lot more functional than it used to be.
No, you're still not going to be able to transfer ringtones wherever you want (tho' there's workarounds for that), but overall, they're crippling bluetooth a lot less now.
Meanwhile, take a look at the BT stack on the iPhone... just about nothing works 'cept the headset and hands-free profiles, last I checked. That's actually a lot less BT functionality than most recent VZW phones.
A Verizon-compatible iPhone would have the entire user interface removed, and replaced with the same brain-dead menu interface that they use on all their other phones. They'd probably also insist on disabling Wi-Fi, and block iTunes, so you can only move data in/out by going through their "get it now" service. You wouldn't want to buy the result.
Obviously, those would be deal-breakers for Apple. They're not going to give up the iPhone UI, and they're not going to herd users to Verizon's crappy WMA-centric 'VCast Music' store. It's my hope that the iPhone will be successful enough to make VZW have to compromise, at some point.
And then there are more reasonable reasons why Verizon will balk, including the fact that they'll need to install new back-end software to make visual voice-mail work, and the fact that Apple wants a percentage of every user's monthly bill (like they get from AT&T).
Well, I think visual voicemail is the future, regardless... at some point VZW will have to support it. Far as balking at Apple's terms, again, it's a business deal- if the iPhone is doing well enough, at some point VZW does better by doing a deal with Apple than not doing one.
But it's also probably VZW's hope that the upcoming wave of 'iPhone clones' do well enough that either there's no need for VZW to cut a deal with Apple, or if they do cut a deal, it's on terms more favorable to VZW.
Combined with the fact that Apple has a five-year exclusive contract with AT&T for US service, I don't think we'll see a CDMA/EVDO iPhone from Verizon for a very long time. Which is a real pity, because I would love to have one.
Actually, there's been some rumors that the ATT exclusive is only rock-solid for two years, with an option to go five, if both parties agree.
If so, I wouldn't expect Apple to agree. Why sell to only 25% of the US market (ATT's share), when you call sell to over 85% of it by doing deals with all of the 'Big Four' national carriers?
That wouldn't surprise me either. I remember when the iMac/G4 was sold, that Steve went on at length about how vertical-oriented optical drives always have lousy performance. He stuck by this story for years, right up until the iMac/G5 shipped, with a vertical optical drive.
So you're right to be skeptical about Steve's statements. I'm sure he's not lying, but I doubt he's telling the whole truth either.
Steve's a... salesman, first and foremost. That's prolly the nicest way of putting it. But I'm glad that he's Apple's salesman.
.
GPS... well, it would be OK but I wonder it it would really be more of a gimmick.
3G combined with some VOIP and other cool apps would make me rush out and buy an iPhone today.
GPS... well, it would be OK but I wonder it it would really be more of a gimmick.
When was the last time you were in a motor factors?
In the UK at least, they're wall to wall GPS units, TomTom, Magellan etc. The iPhone with GPS and TomTom GO installed on it would be very popular instead of a separate GPS unit.
Sure, they're mostly gimmicks too, but they sell a lot.
When was the last time you were in a motor factors?
In the UK at least, they're wall to wall GPS units, TomTom, Magellan etc. The iPhone with GPS and TomTom GO installed on it would be very popular instead of a separate GPS unit.
Sure, they're mostly gimmicks too, but they sell a lot.
The only problem I see with that, is that most of the auto GPS models I see here also have audio. The phone won't, at least, not without an accessory.
The better models also have bigger screens. you don't want a small screen when you're in traffic, and have to glance over to read where the next turn is.
The only problem I see with that, is that most of the auto GPS models I see here also have audio. The phone won't, at least, not without an accessory.
The iPhone has a speaker built in or since it's probably linked in to your car hifi system anyway, use that.
The only problem I see with that, is that most of the auto GPS models I see here also have audio. The phone won't, at least, not without an accessory.
The better models also have bigger screens. you don't want a small screen when you're in traffic, and have to glance over to read where the next turn is.
?? Confused
Melgross, please, you are not telling me that the iPhone has not got a hands free speaker are you?
?? Confused
Melgross, please, you are not telling me that the iPhone has not got a hands free speaker are you?
I get it, you are probably talking about google maps not having sound i guess.
That is a point though i would imagine a good move for google would be proper maps that they can try and licence to SatNav manufacturers, putting a real SatNav application on the iPhone would be the only point of including GPS.
When was the last time you were in a motor factors?
In the UK at least, they're wall to wall GPS units, TomTom, Magellan etc. The iPhone with GPS and TomTom GO installed on it would be very popular instead of a separate GPS unit.
Sure, they're mostly gimmicks too, but they sell a lot.
Second that, although would not go as far as calling them gimmicks. It seems that everyone has a SatNav in their car now - i do! They are incredibly useful and getting better all the time with live traffic updates, nearest petrol station, macdonalds, speed traps etc..
All this talk about how using cells as a better alternative to GPS can only be said by people who have never used a GPS, nothing is better.
For interest have a look at the new Galileo system that the EU are currently building, they say it will end up running the entire road network in Europe charging every user for every km they drive.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Galileo_positioning_system
I was thinking that an iPhone with GPS & sat nave would be a great all in product & a rival to TomTom.
Most units now have music, photos, BT phone & nav - Apple have a real potential to produce a very compelling product. Could be a seperate device, or use an iPhone with additional software & gps unit - a combined device would be better IMHO though!