why not? apple could make an extended battery, other companies do it. I would much rather have a 3g iPhone with a slight buldge on the back than an edge phone who's battery life isn't even that great.
There are companies that make portable battery rechargers for the iPhone, and iPods.
They use a larger battery than the devices use. You recharge them, and take them with you. If you need to charge your device battery, you plug them into this, and it does that.
While I don't remember the names of the companies who have these products, they are out there.
I can't believe no one' picking on this. First, what is this 'high-standard of experience' apple is talking about. And, second, why exactly would non-internet apps be OK, but internet-based ones would somehow magically threaten that experience. Wouldn't stand-alone apps have just the same ability to threaten that experience? Or is it Apple wanting to make sure no one dares do anything that could cut into their business model?
I think he's offering tentative support. It may be a way of backing out of his earlier statement, but doing so slowly.
You now how he changes his mind about things. If there seems to be enough support for these products, and Apple isn't coming out with their own SDK, which I still think is a possibility, he may want to allow them. But, he can't just go whole hog. He has to step carefully.
It looks to be the same thing about phone unlocking, except the other way around. Earlier on, he said that Apple would NOT try to stop it. Now he is saying that they will. Why that changed, I have no idea.
Also let's not forget there are plenty of 3G phones that last a whole day using phone/music/net/email on one charge. My moto q being one.
Are you sure your Q lasts all day talking and surfing the web, because poor battery performance (2-3 hr) seems to be one of the main complaints about that particular phone?
Jobs also left the door open for a 3G version of the iPhone somewhere down the line, but maintained that current 3G chipsets are "power hogs." He said most of today's 3G devices have battery lives that span only 2 to 3 hours, compared to the iPhone's average 8 hours. "We've got to see the battery lives for 3G get back up into the 5+ hour range," he said. "Hopefully we'll see that late next year."
This debate about battery life and 3G must be treated seriously, and once Apple is done marketing the iPhone in Europe the Japanese market - where Edge is a joke - beckons. I have been using 3G phones for a while now. I prefer phones from Sony-Ericsson, and I try to hookup the device to charge overnight, but not always. My current phone is the SE P1i which I use extensively as a phone, internet/email (via Wi-Fi, on the phone itself and bluetoothed to my portable computer), video calling (a few calls each day). I need to charge it once every other day.
Until recently I used the SE K610 (possibly one of the smallest 3Gs). On this one the battery lasts even longer. Granted, I don’t talk for a solid 2 hours each day, but the combination of functions on both devices allow for a comfortable use of the deviceover several days.
One function I never used on either phone is the music player, for that I have an iPod. Probably this is the main factor that limits the battery life - especially with videos?
BTW, when I travel to the US, I take my main phone with me, but in order to avoid the exorbitant roaming charges I also use a quad-band / Edge SE S500i with a local pre-paid SIM card.
Why is the iPhone a power hog? It has more memory? It has a larger screen? A more powerful processor? People would have a tendency to use the iPhone constantly. You really believe Apple is conning people about 3G chips being power hungry. To what end? Apple could build a brick phone that's much thicker and that has a bigger battery to get longer life. Maybe that's what you want and that's why you own a Motorola Q. I'm not putting down the MotoQ. It has different dimensions from the iPhone. You really think the MotoQ is a great handset? We'll see how many get sold. Reviewers said that it's stale and won't get much buyer's attention.
I personally think the iPhone should be a bit thicker to get more battery life, but that's not my decision. GPS chips are power hungry, too. I think the iPhone's dimensions are going to see some design revisions. Give it a chance.
No offense intended to anyone, but from a design/looks standpoint, most people think that "thin is cool."
Isn't the UK trying to ban size zero models from the catwalk nowadays because there is such a thing as 'too thin?' Apple should be careful... they might be next.
Steve Jobs is so greedy!!! What he wants to do is illegal as it denies the ownership of iPhone buyers. Apple VP of Legal Affairs should instruct Steve Jobs that:
1) Apple is breaking consumer protection laws in preventing consumers from choosing a phone carrier for the phones they buy and own;
2) Apple is likely breaking the laws against false advertising;
3) Apple is breaking antitrust laws because tied sales are illegal in that a seller cannot tie the sale of a product, the iPhone, with a service, the ATT or O2 cell phone service;
4) Apple signed a contract which cannot be enforced against iPhone buyers without breaking the law, especially the right of every owner to choose what he wants to do with what he owns, as iPhones are sold, not leased;
5) Apple will damage its image with consumers by breaking the law to enforce a contract that cannot be enforced, just as Apple damaged its image with investors by paying a $650 million bonus to Steve Jobs in 2006, making him the highest paid CEO on the planet.
Here is a link that explains phone unlocking in the US.
Isn't Jobs' comment about the short battery life somewhat of a half-truth? I could see the battery life being shortened to 2-3 hours if someone were constantly using 3G, but how often is someone going to be doing that?
[ ... stuff deleted ...]
Just seems at times Jobs likes to pull excuses out of his a**.
Ok, Let' take a look at the BlackBerry 8830 which in North America runs on the 3G EV-DO network, but roams internationally on a GSM network. We can also look at the BlackBerry 8800 which runs on the EDGE network all the time.
RIM's published battery life for these devices?
8800: 22 days (standby), 300 minutes (talk)
8830 (on an EV-DO network): 9 days (standby), 220 minutes (talk)
8830 (when on a GSM network): 16 days (standby), 300 minutes (talk)
So yes, even if you aren't constantly accessing the network, 3G chews up battery life.
A mobile phone is constantly in contact with a tower to say "hey, I'm alive, and I can be found here". And smart phones can often be more chatty than a plain old cell phone. E.g. if they don't have push email, they will poll every 15 minutes to ask "has anyone emailed me recently?"
So, for BlackBerry, 3G causes the standby time to diminish by about 40%, and the talk time to diminish by about 25%. They do not publish battery time for internet use, audio or video playback.
I have a SaMSUNG Blackjack, and it comes with a extended battery, and has the ability to choose between edge and 3g. there also is a auto select feature that will wich one of the two, that is available
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross
There are companies that make portable battery rechargers for the iPhone, and iPods.
They use a larger battery than the devices use. You recharge them, and take them with you. If you need to charge your device battery, you plug them into this, and it does that.
While I don't remember the names of the companies who have these products, they are out there.
my battery life is great using the extended battery, its only ok using the slim battery. I use opera mini to surf the net, check gmail,dowload song/video clips, and play nintendo games quite frequently.
my battery life is great using the extended battery, its only ok using the slim battery. I use opera mini to surf the net, check gmail,dowload song/video clips, and play nintendo games quite frequently.
Could you be more specific? 3 hours with mixed use? 4? 5? 6?
I regularly get about 6 hours with mixed use on the iPhone.
No. It's Steve's job to make it look as if they are making an effort to limit use; to appease their network partners who are paying Apple large amounts of money for the privalege of working for them.
Exactly right. No cellular provider—not AT&T, not anybody—would have taken a chance on the iPhone under the terms dictated by Apple unless they were guaranteed an exclusive contract for some period of time. Had Apple refused to offer an exclusive deal to their cellular partner, most likely there would never have been an iPhone.
So your solution to the 3G power consumption problem is to have the user swap out their cellphone battery every 2 hours? Let's just say I'm glad it's Apple doing the product design.
My Treo 755 has 3G and it runs ALL day, none of this 2 hour BS. So I guess you're telling me what I already know, my Treo is superior to the iPhone in some important ways.
I have a SaMSUNG Blackjack, and it comes with a extended battery, and has the ability to choose between edge and 3g. there also is a auto select feature that will wich one of the two, that is available
My older Samsung i300 and i330's came with a regular battery, and an extended battery. The stand allowed two batteries to be charged at once. One in the phone, and one in the stand.
I only used the extended battery.
My feeling is that all of the batteries in these sealed models are the equivelent to the extended versions.
My Samsungs were before the 3G services from Sprint, so I can't say about them.
actually, 3g vs. edge can make a huge impact on talk time, because even though you are not downloading data (as in a web page) you are talking on that network. AnandTech has an article about 3g vs edge battery life on a samsung blackjack:
for just talk time, on 3g a blackjack got 251 minutes, but on edge got 525 minutes. that's a huge disparity. in other cases the difference was much less and in some cases (email) even better for 3g than edge.
I'm not a technical person, but does the iPhone "talk" over the network checking e-mail and maybe other things(?) and does a derivative of OS X & iTunes, etc. have anything to do with battery drain due to receiving data packets. I mean didn't people who went to Europe and did not turn off their EDGE or whatever have huge bills at the end of the month. Does this cause a big drain on the battery as is when on EDGE and even worse if on a 3G network?
I keep reading posts of people with G3 phones saying they get ok time from the battery then what SJ says but does SJ know more because the iPhone is not like your standard Nokia, Samsung etc. cell phone maker? The iPhone is more OS computer centric then others? Just curious???
I'm not a technical person, but does the iPhone "talk" over the network checking e-mail and maybe other things(?) and does a derivative of OS X & iTunes, etc. have anything to do with battery drain due to receiving data packets. I mean didn't people who went to Europe and did not turn off their EDGE or whatever have huge bills at the end of the month. Does this cause a big drain on the battery as is when on EDGE and even worse if on a 3G network?
I keep reading posts of people with G3 phones saying they get ok time from the battery then what SJ says but does SJ know more because the iPhone is not like your standard Nokia, Samsung etc. cell phone maker? The iPhone is more OS computer centric then others? Just curious???
Apple is claiming 8 hours talk time. That's pretty good. That's 480 minutes. Who else claims that much?
Remember that all official numbers may not meet real world usage patterns.
Steve Jobs is so greedy!!! What he wants to do is illegal as it denies the ownership of iPhone buyers. Apple VP of Legal Affairs should instruct Steve Jobs that:
Jobs runs a company that is out to make a profit... the biggest profit it can. As a shareholder, I like that!
Quote:
Originally Posted by ouragan
1) Apple is breaking consumer protection laws in preventing consumers from choosing a phone carrier for the phones they buy and own;
Buy a diesel car and you HAVE to use diesel petrol. You're free to buy a car that runs on unleaded if that's what you want.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ouragan
2) Apple is likely breaking the laws against false advertising;
The iphone does everything it is advertised as doing.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ouragan
3) Apple is breaking antitrust laws because tied sales are illegal in that a seller cannot tie the sale of a product, the iPhone, with a service, the ATT or O2 cell phone service;
You don't have to sign anything to buy an iphone. You buy it, you can do what you want with it. But to use it to it's full potential, use it with the Certified Apple Partner.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ouragan
4) Apple signed a contract which cannot be enforced against iPhone buyers without breaking the law, especially the right of every owner to choose what he wants to do with what he owns, as iPhones are sold, not leased;
Once again, YOU DO NOT NEED TO SIGN A CONTRACT TO BUY AN IPHONE.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ouragan
5) Apple will damage its image with consumers by breaking the law to enforce a contract that cannot be enforced, just as Apple damaged its image with investors by paying a $650 million bonus to Steve Jobs in 2006, making him the highest paid CEO on the planet.
Steve Jobs gets paid if Apple continues to grow. He saved Apple when he came back. His $650 million was the exercise of stock options... if the stock is worth nothing, he gets nothing.
AAPL has made me alot of money in the past year. Jobs is responsible for that with how he plays the media and creates want.
He is worth more than any other CEO on the planet.
When will people get over the fact that Apple is a business. They are out to make the best return on investment possible. They do this by making some of the best products out there and charging a bit more for them. I'm hooked, are you?
Comments
why not? apple could make an extended battery, other companies do it. I would much rather have a 3g iPhone with a slight buldge on the back than an edge phone who's battery life isn't even that great.
There are companies that make portable battery rechargers for the iPhone, and iPods.
They use a larger battery than the devices use. You recharge them, and take them with you. If you need to charge your device battery, you plug them into this, and it does that.
While I don't remember the names of the companies who have these products, they are out there.
I can't believe no one' picking on this. First, what is this 'high-standard of experience' apple is talking about. And, second, why exactly would non-internet apps be OK, but internet-based ones would somehow magically threaten that experience. Wouldn't stand-alone apps have just the same ability to threaten that experience? Or is it Apple wanting to make sure no one dares do anything that could cut into their business model?
I think he's offering tentative support. It may be a way of backing out of his earlier statement, but doing so slowly.
You now how he changes his mind about things. If there seems to be enough support for these products, and Apple isn't coming out with their own SDK, which I still think is a possibility, he may want to allow them. But, he can't just go whole hog. He has to step carefully.
It looks to be the same thing about phone unlocking, except the other way around. Earlier on, he said that Apple would NOT try to stop it. Now he is saying that they will. Why that changed, I have no idea.
Also let's not forget there are plenty of 3G phones that last a whole day using phone/music/net/email on one charge. My moto q being one.
Are you sure your Q lasts all day talking and surfing the web, because poor battery performance (2-3 hr) seems to be one of the main complaints about that particular phone?
m
Jobs also left the door open for a 3G version of the iPhone somewhere down the line, but maintained that current 3G chipsets are "power hogs." He said most of today's 3G devices have battery lives that span only 2 to 3 hours, compared to the iPhone's average 8 hours. "We've got to see the battery lives for 3G get back up into the 5+ hour range," he said. "Hopefully we'll see that late next year."
[ View this article at AppleInsider.com ]
This debate about battery life and 3G must be treated seriously, and once Apple is done marketing the iPhone in Europe the Japanese market - where Edge is a joke - beckons. I have been using 3G phones for a while now. I prefer phones from Sony-Ericsson, and I try to hookup the device to charge overnight, but not always. My current phone is the SE P1i which I use extensively as a phone, internet/email (via Wi-Fi, on the phone itself and bluetoothed to my portable computer), video calling (a few calls each day). I need to charge it once every other day.
Until recently I used the SE K610 (possibly one of the smallest 3Gs). On this one the battery lasts even longer. Granted, I don’t talk for a solid 2 hours each day, but the combination of functions on both devices allow for a comfortable use of the deviceover several days.
One function I never used on either phone is the music player, for that I have an iPod. Probably this is the main factor that limits the battery life - especially with videos?
BTW, when I travel to the US, I take my main phone with me, but in order to avoid the exorbitant roaming charges I also use a quad-band / Edge SE S500i with a local pre-paid SIM card.
I personally think the iPhone should be a bit thicker to get more battery life, but that's not my decision. GPS chips are power hungry, too. I think the iPhone's dimensions are going to see some design revisions. Give it a chance.
No offense intended to anyone, but from a design/looks standpoint, most people think that "thin is cool."
Isn't the UK trying to ban size zero models from the catwalk nowadays because there is such a thing as 'too thin?' Apple should be careful... they might be next.
"Bring on the fat iPhones!!!"
Steve Jobs is so greedy!!! What he wants to do is illegal as it denies the ownership of iPhone buyers. Apple VP of Legal Affairs should instruct Steve Jobs that:
1) Apple is breaking consumer protection laws in preventing consumers from choosing a phone carrier for the phones they buy and own;
2) Apple is likely breaking the laws against false advertising;
3) Apple is breaking antitrust laws because tied sales are illegal in that a seller cannot tie the sale of a product, the iPhone, with a service, the ATT or O2 cell phone service;
4) Apple signed a contract which cannot be enforced against iPhone buyers without breaking the law, especially the right of every owner to choose what he wants to do with what he owns, as iPhones are sold, not leased;
5) Apple will damage its image with consumers by breaking the law to enforce a contract that cannot be enforced, just as Apple damaged its image with investors by paying a $650 million bonus to Steve Jobs in 2006, making him the highest paid CEO on the planet.
Here is a link that explains phone unlocking in the US.
http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,1895,2064707,00.asp
Isn't Jobs' comment about the short battery life somewhat of a half-truth? I could see the battery life being shortened to 2-3 hours if someone were constantly using 3G, but how often is someone going to be doing that?
[ ... stuff deleted ...]
Just seems at times Jobs likes to pull excuses out of his a**.
Ok, Let' take a look at the BlackBerry 8830 which in North America runs on the 3G EV-DO network, but roams internationally on a GSM network. We can also look at the BlackBerry 8800 which runs on the EDGE network all the time.
RIM's published battery life for these devices?
8800: 22 days (standby), 300 minutes (talk)
8830 (on an EV-DO network): 9 days (standby), 220 minutes (talk)
8830 (when on a GSM network): 16 days (standby), 300 minutes (talk)
So yes, even if you aren't constantly accessing the network, 3G chews up battery life.
A mobile phone is constantly in contact with a tower to say "hey, I'm alive, and I can be found here". And smart phones can often be more chatty than a plain old cell phone. E.g. if they don't have push email, they will poll every 15 minutes to ask "has anyone emailed me recently?"
So, for BlackBerry, 3G causes the standby time to diminish by about 40%, and the talk time to diminish by about 25%. They do not publish battery time for internet use, audio or video playback.
They do not publish battery time for internet use, audio or video playback.
Hmmm...... I wonder why. Isn't it supposed to have all those functions?
There are companies that make portable battery rechargers for the iPhone, and iPods.
They use a larger battery than the devices use. You recharge them, and take them with you. If you need to charge your device battery, you plug them into this, and it does that.
While I don't remember the names of the companies who have these products, they are out there.
"[P]eople are going to try and break in and it's our job to try and stop them."
Huh?
It's Apple's job to LIMIT use of their product?
With the agreements they have in place, yes.
my battery life is great using the extended battery, its only ok using the slim battery. I use opera mini to surf the net, check gmail,dowload song/video clips, and play nintendo games quite frequently.
Could you be more specific? 3 hours with mixed use? 4? 5? 6?
I regularly get about 6 hours with mixed use on the iPhone.
No. It's Steve's job to make it look as if they are making an effort to limit use; to appease their network partners who are paying Apple large amounts of money for the privalege of working for them.
Exactly right. No cellular provider—not AT&T, not anybody—would have taken a chance on the iPhone under the terms dictated by Apple unless they were guaranteed an exclusive contract for some period of time. Had Apple refused to offer an exclusive deal to their cellular partner, most likely there would never have been an iPhone.
So your solution to the 3G power consumption problem is to have the user swap out their cellphone battery every 2 hours? Let's just say I'm glad it's Apple doing the product design.
My Treo 755 has 3G and it runs ALL day, none of this 2 hour BS. So I guess you're telling me what I already know, my Treo is superior to the iPhone in some important ways.
I have a SaMSUNG Blackjack, and it comes with a extended battery, and has the ability to choose between edge and 3g. there also is a auto select feature that will wich one of the two, that is available
My older Samsung i300 and i330's came with a regular battery, and an extended battery. The stand allowed two batteries to be charged at once. One in the phone, and one in the stand.
I only used the extended battery.
My feeling is that all of the batteries in these sealed models are the equivelent to the extended versions.
My Samsungs were before the 3G services from Sprint, so I can't say about them.
"[P]eople are going to try and break in and it's our job to try and stop them."
Huh?
It's Apple's job to LIMIT use of their product?
Of course, what are you smoking.
It's a product that is only sold with a monthly contract. You honestly expect them NOT to try and enforce that?
actually, 3g vs. edge can make a huge impact on talk time, because even though you are not downloading data (as in a web page) you are talking on that network. AnandTech has an article about 3g vs edge battery life on a samsung blackjack:
http://www.anandtech.com/printarticle.aspx?i=3036
for just talk time, on 3g a blackjack got 251 minutes, but on edge got 525 minutes. that's a huge disparity. in other cases the difference was much less and in some cases (email) even better for 3g than edge.
I'm not a technical person, but does the iPhone "talk" over the network checking e-mail and maybe other things(?) and does a derivative of OS X & iTunes, etc. have anything to do with battery drain due to receiving data packets. I mean didn't people who went to Europe and did not turn off their EDGE or whatever have huge bills at the end of the month. Does this cause a big drain on the battery as is when on EDGE and even worse if on a 3G network?
I keep reading posts of people with G3 phones saying they get ok time from the battery then what SJ says but does SJ know more because the iPhone is not like your standard Nokia, Samsung etc. cell phone maker? The iPhone is more OS computer centric then others? Just curious???
I'm not a technical person, but does the iPhone "talk" over the network checking e-mail and maybe other things(?) and does a derivative of OS X & iTunes, etc. have anything to do with battery drain due to receiving data packets. I mean didn't people who went to Europe and did not turn off their EDGE or whatever have huge bills at the end of the month. Does this cause a big drain on the battery as is when on EDGE and even worse if on a 3G network?
I keep reading posts of people with G3 phones saying they get ok time from the battery then what SJ says but does SJ know more because the iPhone is not like your standard Nokia, Samsung etc. cell phone maker? The iPhone is more OS computer centric then others? Just curious???
Apple is claiming 8 hours talk time. That's pretty good. That's 480 minutes. Who else claims that much?
Remember that all official numbers may not meet real world usage patterns.
Steve Jobs is so greedy!!! What he wants to do is illegal as it denies the ownership of iPhone buyers. Apple VP of Legal Affairs should instruct Steve Jobs that:
Jobs runs a company that is out to make a profit... the biggest profit it can. As a shareholder, I like that!
1) Apple is breaking consumer protection laws in preventing consumers from choosing a phone carrier for the phones they buy and own;
Buy a diesel car and you HAVE to use diesel petrol. You're free to buy a car that runs on unleaded if that's what you want.
2) Apple is likely breaking the laws against false advertising;
The iphone does everything it is advertised as doing.
3) Apple is breaking antitrust laws because tied sales are illegal in that a seller cannot tie the sale of a product, the iPhone, with a service, the ATT or O2 cell phone service;
You don't have to sign anything to buy an iphone. You buy it, you can do what you want with it. But to use it to it's full potential, use it with the Certified Apple Partner.
4) Apple signed a contract which cannot be enforced against iPhone buyers without breaking the law, especially the right of every owner to choose what he wants to do with what he owns, as iPhones are sold, not leased;
Once again, YOU DO NOT NEED TO SIGN A CONTRACT TO BUY AN IPHONE.
5) Apple will damage its image with consumers by breaking the law to enforce a contract that cannot be enforced, just as Apple damaged its image with investors by paying a $650 million bonus to Steve Jobs in 2006, making him the highest paid CEO on the planet.
Steve Jobs gets paid if Apple continues to grow. He saved Apple when he came back. His $650 million was the exercise of stock options... if the stock is worth nothing, he gets nothing.
AAPL has made me alot of money in the past year. Jobs is responsible for that with how he plays the media and creates want.
He is worth more than any other CEO on the planet.
When will people get over the fact that Apple is a business. They are out to make the best return on investment possible. They do this by making some of the best products out there and charging a bit more for them. I'm hooked, are you?