This sounds more like its going to be an iPhone than a tablet Mac.
That actually is what I expected and what the general opinion is currently really. Apple is NOT going to do a copy of Microsoft's failed tablet pc products. It is going to be an oversized iphone/ipod touch with greater capabilities.
And despite it going against common wisdom I'm probably going to give in and get version 1.0.
I don't mean just in the interface way, I mean this sounds like it is going to be the next iPhone. As in it will replace the current one. As in you will have the be an ATT subscriber.
While a specific processor was not mentioned, it's possible that Intel's new Montevina chip would be a candidate for the forthcoming device, or Apple would opt for the same custom processor Intel developed for the MacBook Air.
Yeah, like a Montevina "chip" or the small package C2D of the MB Air in a phone (oversized or not) is gonna happen.
While I'm pretty sure Apple has more iPod touch variations in the labs, my guess is that they will keep using ARM for THAT kind of device.
When they feel like porting Mac OS X to more portable devices (than notebooks), they will use Silverthorne (2W), Diamondville SC (4W) or DC (8W), which are lower-cost, low-power, x86, 64-bit, multithreaded cpus. Available this summer/fall.
I don't mean just in the interface way, I mean this sounds like it is going to be the next iPhone. As in it will replace the current one. As in you will have the be an ATT subscriber.
Ok well I suppose that never occured to me. That the larger device we all thought would be in spirit the newton 2 would actually be iphone 2.0? Um.....well I agree and disagree. The video conferencing ichat like feature sounds like something you would expect in the iphone 2.0 as a feature but not with this larger umpc like device.
Because the larger device would not be considered a phone anymore because it won't fit in the pocket as well. Yes, you might just have to be a subscriber to the wirless feature but it still won't be considered a phone. That would imply that you can buy it seperately like an ipod touch but like an iphone you would have to pay for the wireless features.
And at the same time, besides this newton device, there would also be a iphone 2.0. Both new devices would compliment each other.
Plus, I also predict the iphone nano which would be almost credit card sized. Just throwing that in the mix.
This sounds more like its going to be an iPhone than a tablet Mac.
For many of us this is more of what we want than a Tablet Mac. Bigger screen and easy to carry being two really important aspects. In many ways the ideal Newton2. I do think it is a stretch though to believe that AIR's processor will end up in such a device. The best bet right now for the middle of 2008 delivery would be ARM processors.
Given Apple though I wouldn't be surprised if they try for Silverthorne. Long term it is the best portables solution going.
And despite it going against common wisdom I'm probably going to give in and get version 1.0.
I could find my self in the same boat. As long as the unit doesn't require an expensive contract. Well that and be priced sky high.
I'm actually hoping for a device that allows Apple to give the user a choice. That is cell phone networking or WiMaX. WiMax is starting to look like a real alternative to the cell phone companies, at least where it is implemented. Further if the unit still supports WiFi we are covered in enough places to make the unit viable.
Ok well I suppose that never occured to me. That the larger device we all thought would be in spirit the newton 2 would actually be iphone 2.0? Um.....well I agree and disagree.
Well I'm not surprised that Newton2 would have RF networking support. Will Newton2 and iPhone2 be the same thing. Frankly I doubt it, in one sense anyways.
By this I mean there will be a major revision to iPhone that enhances what is in the current package. Some might call that iPhone2. Newton2 might actually be an addition to the iPhone/iPod product line. This device's primary goal would be to deliver a larger screen and likely a more powerful computing platform.
Quote:
The video conferencing ichat like feature sounds like something you would expect in the iphone 2.0 as a feature but not with this larger umpc like device.
Newton2 is not a umpc type device and to lump them together just confuses people. Think of it as a more open and powerful iPod Touch. Newton2 would be a multimedia device with the ability to serve up the applications that the original Newton did. I don't think we will ever see a demand for desktop apps on these sorts of units.
Quote:
Because the larger device would not be considered a phone anymore because it won't fit in the pocket as well.
Watch the movie Definitely / Maybe for a visual study in the evolution of a cell phone. The ever smaller cell phone has been a marketing success even if such device make if very difficult to deliver all the benefits that they are alleged to have. IPhone has pretty much proven that a well designed platform can be bigger than the norm and be very successful. It is the ease of use that makes the difference.
As an example this new years I had an ultra small cell phone shoved into my hands to take some pictures. Frankly I didn't enjoy the experience at all. It was an issue with physically handling the phone that bothered me, it was just to small.
Quote:
Yes, you might just have to be a subscriber to the wirless feature but it still won't be considered a phone.
It is a phone if it can make voice calls as easy as iPhone. If it is obvious that that isn't its primary purpose then it is not a phone. Either way if it needs a $60 a month AT&T contact it will likely not get my attention. Now if AT&T offered up a $20 a month data only plan it would be very interesting indeed.
Quote:
That would imply that you can buy it seperately like an ipod touch but like an iphone you would have to pay for the wireless features.
I'm really hoping for a choice. That is cell or WiMax or whatever the future offers. If they can do this as a software defined radio that is only better. It would be extremely handy to be able to switch from WiMax to cell networking with a simple applications setting.
Quote:
And at the same time, besides this newton device, there would also be a iphone 2.0. Both new devices would compliment each other.
Better to have one device that is flexible in my mind. I'm not sure if the technology will be there by mid year to offer up any sort of RF connection but it will be soon. At that point the user can decide what sort of service he needs or doesn't need.
Quote:
Plus, I also predict the iphone nano which would be almost credit card sized. Just throwing that in the mix.
Actually I expected a simplified iPhone Nano if you will at MWSF. Apple can not be a one horse show in the cell phone world. It needs a very low end offering.
Yes. I expect to see several different iphone like units to be sold by Apple very soon. They have to have a robust selection to compete and stay one step ahead of the industry. So most definately I do believe that this newton like device will NOT be the iphone 2.0 but a brand new device. The iphone 2 will debut at the same time.
I think what will happen is that Steve will debut the iphone 2 this month at either the New York event or the the event on Feb 26th as well as the newton2 device. That way they will have several months for the FCC to do their thing before Steve can put them up for sale later in the year.
My bet is that it WILL be manufactured, and it will again change the way we work.
It will not be a small laptop. It will not be a PDA. It will not be a re-incarnation of the Newton.
....
Don't think Personal Digital Assistant, think Personal Digital Life Manager... Imagine it cohesively linking your Mac, your AppleTV, your Home Theater, your Home Automation, etc. etc.
And your car.. I think you are correct. Knowledge Navigator 2008?
The reincarnation of the Newton is the iPhone, the Mac touch is something else. Not a PDA, not a PDM, but a Mac with a touch screen. Don't over think it, this will purely be the Mac OS upgraded for a new user interface. With the Mac touch you have the first Mac where you actually feel like you are directly interacting with the software. That is why is isn't out yet, these things take a long time to do, and to do right.
If that was the case we wouldn't have this thread. Maybe iPhone could pass as Newton Jr. but if isn't what most people think of when thinking about the Newton 2. One of the big issues with Newton 2 is finding the right size screen to attract a suitable number of buyers. In is not as easy as some might think.
I honestly believe that Apple is close with the form factor of iPhone/Touch. that is a device that is slim and has a good part of the front surface occupied by the screen. The question them becomes how much larger can they go with increasing the screen size and still keep the unit hand held.
Quote:
the Mac touch is something else. Not a PDA, not a PDM, but a Mac with a touch screen.
As such it has no future. This is the point I've tried to get across before but having a device that supports legacy apps is not in Apples nor the devices best interest. Apps have to be written from the ground up to be useful on touch devices.
Quote:
Don't over think it, this will purely be the Mac OS upgraded for a new user interface.
Why bother when they can just go with Mobile OS and add back some of he BSD stuff? Frankly I see it as confusing the market way to much. Apple doesn't need one billion variants of API's to write for on production hardware.
[quot]
With the Mac touch you have the first Mac where you actually feel like you are directly interacting with the software. That is why is isn't out yet, these things take a long time to do, and to do right.[/QUOTE]
Oh come on it isn't that much of a leap over a mouse. If we where directly interacting with the software we would be talking to the computer. Now some do already, especially when off their meds, but it is a practical avenue of computer interaction right now. All Apple is really accomplishing with the Touch interface is getting rid of the mouse. It provides for interfsce methods that at useful on the go.
Speaking of which one has to wonder if any of the alluded to input methods are likely to be completely useful on a hand held device.
Well you have all the OS X apps, and iLife to use at the start anyway. Point is they would be tailored for this device. And yes, getting rid of the trackpad and the keyboard an a mobile computer is a big deal. It means you can have customized buttons to suit the app you are using, and the keyboard is only there when you need it. The newton was a PDA, the iPhone is more. Smaller doesn't make it less. Hand recognition? No one needs that on a phone, would serve no purpose.
As I see it if you don't think the iPhone is the new Newton, then I don't see a new Newton being released at all. I am convinced this device will be a multi-touch tablet with a screen size around 11". It will be a mobile "computer" and the multi-touch user-interface will make it the best mobile computer on the planet, and the desire of every computer user alive. Not just a hand-held, but to be used on flat surfaces also, be it the school desk, a table, or a tray on the plane. Would be a great couch computer also.
It will have to be sufficiently more powerful and capable than an iPhone for Apple to bother going to the trouble of making and selling it, and the only way I see that happening is if they make it "a Mac". A Mac with a 7" screen, Steve wouldn't do that. He could have given the Air an 11" screen, but he knows how important screen real estate is on a Mac. And giving the Air a 13" screen makes room for this even smaller, sexier device to come along. And being that multi-touch is a different user-interface I can see 11" felling big when you are actually touching the screen. 11" Mac touch FTW!
Ture, but there are those of us, who don't want / need an iPod or iPhone, who will gladly purchase a iNewton:, iPDA, itrack, iplan or whatever they end up calling it
Skip
PS Not sure who said it, but "Give the folks, what they want" ? or was it "Build it, and they will come"
I apologize if this has been discussed, but my poor memory places the original Newton being released in 1998. I worked for Apple as a Service Technician from 92-99, and I believe it was released in July of 98 because I took my brand new Newton into the Continental Divide when I went hiking just days after its release.
The early 90's with 4 MB RAM in a Newton would have been unheard of, since 4/40 and 4/80 were about the only configurations offered for Macintosh desktops at that time. Truly, the Newton was ahead of its time (though many of us in Apple relied on it heavily for years), but I am not certain that any PDA existed before 1998. But like I said, I have a poor memory.
Thanks for the article! We hope to hear more soon.
* People love browsing Safari on the iPhone but want it to be slightly bigger
* Netbooks are very popular
* Artists, Students, Medical Staff & other niche markets are crying for one
* It has a lust factor
* Apple keep on refining the OS X UI for Touch interfaces (Stacks, Icon Previews, CoverFlow etc)
* Lack of Copy & Paste on iPhone (conspiracy theory)
* Ubiquitous Computing - Different Technology for different tasks
* It could work with your Desktop/Laptop as an Input Device
* I imagine the Japanese would start killing people to get one too
Form Factor:
1.5 times the size of the iPhone is the size of a small book.
This form factor is great for watching movies, digital books, browsing the web, playing games, document editing and sketching.
It could also be used for In-Car entertainment & Navigation, Presentations, Video conferencing and you could even route phone calls
and 3G data from your iPhone. WiFi and USB dongles would still be there.
I'm not sure running the full OS is a good idea or not (That said, Snow Leopard would be great on this device!!) but there could be some unique
ways to address tasks such as sketching/Photoshop work so you don't have to use intensive apps.
Apple could make a basic image editing app designed for MultiTouch. Have it export to .PSD and other popular formats. An Apple Pixelmator, bundled with iLife or iWork.
Final Thoughts:
It makes sense for Apple to increase their product lines slightly because of the dawn of ubiquitous computing. People are starting to mix and match technology
based upon their requirements. You don't always need to lug a Laptop around hence the multitude of attempts at creating smaller devices (MB Air, UMPC, Smart Phone, Tablet, Netbook).
As for price. I'm happy up to $999
PS: This could (unfortunately for some) kill the Mac Mini too and the idea of an iPhone Nano! The iPhone/iPod Touch in essence would become the Nano variation of this product line
Comments
This sounds more like its going to be an iPhone than a tablet Mac.
That actually is what I expected and what the general opinion is currently really. Apple is NOT going to do a copy of Microsoft's failed tablet pc products. It is going to be an oversized iphone/ipod touch with greater capabilities.
And despite it going against common wisdom I'm probably going to give in and get version 1.0.
While a specific processor was not mentioned, it's possible that Intel's new Montevina chip would be a candidate for the forthcoming device, or Apple would opt for the same custom processor Intel developed for the MacBook Air.
Yeah, like a Montevina "chip" or the small package C2D of the MB Air in a phone (oversized or not) is gonna happen.
While I'm pretty sure Apple has more iPod touch variations in the labs, my guess is that they will keep using ARM for THAT kind of device.
When they feel like porting Mac OS X to more portable devices (than notebooks), they will use Silverthorne (2W), Diamondville SC (4W) or DC (8W), which are lower-cost, low-power, x86, 64-bit, multithreaded cpus. Available this summer/fall.
Product release events are not secret, which goes against the very purpose of the gathering.
The word you guys are looking for is either "unannounced" or "media-only".
I don't mean just in the interface way, I mean this sounds like it is going to be the next iPhone. As in it will replace the current one. As in you will have the be an ATT subscriber.
Ok well I suppose that never occured to me. That the larger device we all thought would be in spirit the newton 2 would actually be iphone 2.0? Um.....well I agree and disagree. The video conferencing ichat like feature sounds like something you would expect in the iphone 2.0 as a feature but not with this larger umpc like device.
Because the larger device would not be considered a phone anymore because it won't fit in the pocket as well. Yes, you might just have to be a subscriber to the wirless feature but it still won't be considered a phone. That would imply that you can buy it seperately like an ipod touch but like an iphone you would have to pay for the wireless features.
And at the same time, besides this newton device, there would also be a iphone 2.0. Both new devices would compliment each other.
Plus, I also predict the iphone nano which would be almost credit card sized. Just throwing that in the mix.
This sounds more like its going to be an iPhone than a tablet Mac.
For many of us this is more of what we want than a Tablet Mac. Bigger screen and easy to carry being two really important aspects. In many ways the ideal Newton2. I do think it is a stretch though to believe that AIR's processor will end up in such a device. The best bet right now for the middle of 2008 delivery would be ARM processors.
Given Apple though I wouldn't be surprised if they try for Silverthorne. Long term it is the best portables solution going.
Dave
And despite it going against common wisdom I'm probably going to give in and get version 1.0.
I could find my self in the same boat. As long as the unit doesn't require an expensive contract. Well that and be priced sky high.
I'm actually hoping for a device that allows Apple to give the user a choice. That is cell phone networking or WiMaX. WiMax is starting to look like a real alternative to the cell phone companies, at least where it is implemented. Further if the unit still supports WiFi we are covered in enough places to make the unit viable.
Dave
Ok well I suppose that never occured to me. That the larger device we all thought would be in spirit the newton 2 would actually be iphone 2.0? Um.....well I agree and disagree.
Well I'm not surprised that Newton2 would have RF networking support. Will Newton2 and iPhone2 be the same thing. Frankly I doubt it, in one sense anyways.
By this I mean there will be a major revision to iPhone that enhances what is in the current package. Some might call that iPhone2. Newton2 might actually be an addition to the iPhone/iPod product line. This device's primary goal would be to deliver a larger screen and likely a more powerful computing platform.
The video conferencing ichat like feature sounds like something you would expect in the iphone 2.0 as a feature but not with this larger umpc like device.
Newton2 is not a umpc type device and to lump them together just confuses people. Think of it as a more open and powerful iPod Touch. Newton2 would be a multimedia device with the ability to serve up the applications that the original Newton did. I don't think we will ever see a demand for desktop apps on these sorts of units.
Because the larger device would not be considered a phone anymore because it won't fit in the pocket as well.
Watch the movie Definitely / Maybe for a visual study in the evolution of a cell phone. The ever smaller cell phone has been a marketing success even if such device make if very difficult to deliver all the benefits that they are alleged to have. IPhone has pretty much proven that a well designed platform can be bigger than the norm and be very successful. It is the ease of use that makes the difference.
As an example this new years I had an ultra small cell phone shoved into my hands to take some pictures. Frankly I didn't enjoy the experience at all. It was an issue with physically handling the phone that bothered me, it was just to small.
Yes, you might just have to be a subscriber to the wirless feature but it still won't be considered a phone.
It is a phone if it can make voice calls as easy as iPhone. If it is obvious that that isn't its primary purpose then it is not a phone. Either way if it needs a $60 a month AT&T contact it will likely not get my attention. Now if AT&T offered up a $20 a month data only plan it would be very interesting indeed.
That would imply that you can buy it seperately like an ipod touch but like an iphone you would have to pay for the wireless features.
I'm really hoping for a choice. That is cell or WiMax or whatever the future offers. If they can do this as a software defined radio that is only better. It would be extremely handy to be able to switch from WiMax to cell networking with a simple applications setting.
And at the same time, besides this newton device, there would also be a iphone 2.0. Both new devices would compliment each other.
Better to have one device that is flexible in my mind. I'm not sure if the technology will be there by mid year to offer up any sort of RF connection but it will be soon. At that point the user can decide what sort of service he needs or doesn't need.
Plus, I also predict the iphone nano which would be almost credit card sized. Just throwing that in the mix.
Actually I expected a simplified iPhone Nano if you will at MWSF. Apple can not be a one horse show in the cell phone world. It needs a very low end offering.
Dave
I think what will happen is that Steve will debut the iphone 2 this month at either the New York event or the the event on Feb 26th as well as the newton2 device. That way they will have several months for the FCC to do their thing before Steve can put them up for sale later in the year.
Does anyone disagree?
Maybe it will come with a pen much like the ones FedEx / UPS use for signing their machine.
It WILL be available in Black, Silver, AND White (so it will be hidden in ALL of those White Business Man Shirts)
If not, it will be much larger, and will fit into a brief case ?
Hey, it's got to be one or the other
Skip
Think outside the "box" ladies and gents.
....
My bet is that it WILL be manufactured, and it will again change the way we work.
It will not be a small laptop. It will not be a PDA. It will not be a re-incarnation of the Newton.
....
Don't think Personal Digital Assistant, think Personal Digital Life Manager... Imagine it cohesively linking your Mac, your AppleTV, your Home Theater, your Home Automation, etc. etc.
And your car.. I think you are correct. Knowledge Navigator 2008?
The reincarnation of the Newton is the iPhone,
If that was the case we wouldn't have this thread. Maybe iPhone could pass as Newton Jr. but if isn't what most people think of when thinking about the Newton 2. One of the big issues with Newton 2 is finding the right size screen to attract a suitable number of buyers. In is not as easy as some might think.
I honestly believe that Apple is close with the form factor of iPhone/Touch. that is a device that is slim and has a good part of the front surface occupied by the screen. The question them becomes how much larger can they go with increasing the screen size and still keep the unit hand held.
the Mac touch is something else. Not a PDA, not a PDM, but a Mac with a touch screen.
As such it has no future. This is the point I've tried to get across before but having a device that supports legacy apps is not in Apples nor the devices best interest. Apps have to be written from the ground up to be useful on touch devices.
Don't over think it, this will purely be the Mac OS upgraded for a new user interface.
Why bother when they can just go with Mobile OS and add back some of he BSD stuff? Frankly I see it as confusing the market way to much. Apple doesn't need one billion variants of API's to write for on production hardware.
[quot]
With the Mac touch you have the first Mac where you actually feel like you are directly interacting with the software. That is why is isn't out yet, these things take a long time to do, and to do right.[/QUOTE]
Oh come on it isn't that much of a leap over a mouse. If we where directly interacting with the software we would be talking to the computer. Now some do already, especially when off their meds, but it is a practical avenue of computer interaction right now. All Apple is really accomplishing with the Touch interface is getting rid of the mouse. It provides for interfsce methods that at useful on the go.
Speaking of which one has to wonder if any of the alluded to input methods are likely to be completely useful on a hand held device.
Dave
As I see it if you don't think the iPhone is the new Newton, then I don't see a new Newton being released at all. I am convinced this device will be a multi-touch tablet with a screen size around 11". It will be a mobile "computer" and the multi-touch user-interface will make it the best mobile computer on the planet, and the desire of every computer user alive. Not just a hand-held, but to be used on flat surfaces also, be it the school desk, a table, or a tray on the plane. Would be a great couch computer also.
It will have to be sufficiently more powerful and capable than an iPhone for Apple to bother going to the trouble of making and selling it, and the only way I see that happening is if they make it "a Mac". A Mac with a 7" screen, Steve wouldn't do that. He could have given the Air an 11" screen, but he knows how important screen real estate is on a Mac. And giving the Air a 13" screen makes room for this even smaller, sexier device to come along. And being that multi-touch is a different user-interface I can see 11" felling big when you are actually touching the screen. 11" Mac touch FTW!
Ture, but there are those of us, who don't want / need an iPod or iPhone, who will gladly purchase a iNewton:, iPDA, itrack, iplan or whatever they end up calling it
Skip
PS Not sure who said it, but "Give the folks, what they want" ? or was it "Build it, and they will come"
Wouldn't an iPod Touch meet your needs then?
Wouldn't an iPod Touch meet your needs then?
For me - I'd need a slightly bigger screen and pen input.
Doesn't anyone have any new info?
Its looking like there will be no mactouch til macworld 09.
Doesn't anyone have any new info?
No we don't. We're all guessing. It's definitely not coming until 2009, and probably not even Macworld but it would make sense.
I apologize if this has been discussed, but my poor memory places the original Newton being released in 1998. I worked for Apple as a Service Technician from 92-99, and I believe it was released in July of 98 because I took my brand new Newton into the Continental Divide when I went hiking just days after its release.
The early 90's with 4 MB RAM in a Newton would have been unheard of, since 4/40 and 4/80 were about the only configurations offered for Macintosh desktops at that time. Truly, the Newton was ahead of its time (though many of us in Apple relied on it heavily for years), but I am not certain that any PDA existed before 1998. But like I said, I have a poor memory.
Thanks for the article! We hope to hear more soon.
I think a Mini Tablet is inevitable.
Few of the reasons:
* People love browsing Safari on the iPhone but want it to be slightly bigger
* Netbooks are very popular
* Artists, Students, Medical Staff & other niche markets are crying for one
* It has a lust factor
* Apple keep on refining the OS X UI for Touch interfaces (Stacks, Icon Previews, CoverFlow etc)
* Lack of Copy & Paste on iPhone (conspiracy theory)
* Ubiquitous Computing - Different Technology for different tasks
* It could work with your Desktop/Laptop as an Input Device
* I imagine the Japanese would start killing people to get one too
Form Factor:
1.5 times the size of the iPhone is the size of a small book.
This form factor is great for watching movies, digital books, browsing the web, playing games, document editing and sketching.
It could also be used for In-Car entertainment & Navigation, Presentations, Video conferencing and you could even route phone calls
and 3G data from your iPhone. WiFi and USB dongles would still be there.
I'm not sure running the full OS is a good idea or not (That said, Snow Leopard would be great on this device!!) but there could be some unique
ways to address tasks such as sketching/Photoshop work so you don't have to use intensive apps.
Apple could make a basic image editing app designed for MultiTouch. Have it export to .PSD and other popular formats. An Apple Pixelmator, bundled with iLife or iWork.
Final Thoughts:
It makes sense for Apple to increase their product lines slightly because of the dawn of ubiquitous computing. People are starting to mix and match technology
based upon their requirements. You don't always need to lug a Laptop around hence the multitude of attempts at creating smaller devices (MB Air, UMPC, Smart Phone, Tablet, Netbook).
As for price. I'm happy up to $999
PS: This could (unfortunately for some) kill the Mac Mini too and the idea of an iPhone Nano! The iPhone/iPod Touch in essence would become the Nano variation of this product line
Bigger Version on Flickr
Bigger Version on Flickr