That's the thing, BIOS isn't efficient any more. With EFI you can get network connectivity and do bios updates, get drivers, fix viruses, fix windows. EFI allows more than 256 bits to the graphics card, allows full PCI speed. The BIOS can still get viruses.
Think of the EFI as a mini operating system. It's very powerful and much more useful than your standard BIOS. This is one of the big reasons Apple chose to go with EFI during the switch, (that and i'm sure Intel highly suggested it).
But my understanding is that all of the recent versions of Windows (basically, everything that has been based on the NT kernel) only rely on BIOS system calls for the time the computer actually spends booting up. Once Windows is actually running, BIOS software is bypassed entirely and the device drivers talk directly to the hardware registers associated with the peripherals. Windows installs its own service routines to handle interrupt requests from the hardware. BIOS cannot interfere at that level.
Heck, BIOS' standard syscalls aren't even compatible with the CPU once you've left Real (16-bit unprotected) mode.
It's ironic that just last week Steve was telling Yahoo "You have great assets?just like Apple did?and now it is all about execution" It seems Apple is the one with the execution issues as far as gaming goes.
Imagine what a different world it might be if Apple had bought Bungie. Would Halo have gone on to be the hit is today? Would Apple have let Bungie rot on the vine? Would Apple have made hardware to appeal to gamers?
But my understanding is that all of the recent versions of Windows (basically, everything that has been based on the NT kernel) only rely on BIOS system calls for the time the computer actually spends booting up. Once Windows is actually running, BIOS software is bypassed entirely and the device drivers talk directly to the hardware registers associated with the peripherals. Windows installs its own service routines to handle interrupt requests from the hardware. BIOS cannot interfere at that level.
Heck, BIOS' standard syscalls aren't even compatible with the CPU once you've left Real (16-bit unprotected) mode.
You're 100% correct. But you're missing the benefits of the time BEFORE the computer starts up off of the BIOS. There is a lot you can do with a computer before it actually boots. For instance recover from a system that doesn't boot up. Or get new drivers through a network. Or get simple network connectivity. There are many benefits here... too many to list. Little reading and you'll know why .
It's ironic that just last week Steve was telling Yahoo "You have great assets?just like Apple did?and now it is all about execution" It seems Apple is the one with the execution issues as far as gaming goes.
Imagine what a different world it might be if Apple had bought Bungie. Would Halo have gone on to be the hit is today? Would Apple have let Bungie rot on the vine? Would Apple have made hardware to appeal to gamers?
People are not playing games on the computer anymore. The consoles are far more powerful. XBox 360 and PS3 with their HD support blow away anything on a PC screen.
Please show me where the punchbowl is that contains the Kool-aid you've been drinking because it seems like it's some good stuff!!
PC games are what push the limits of gaming. The technology eventually trickles down to consoles years later. Make no mistake about it it starts there. Gears Of War would have not been possible had Epic not developed the Unreal engine for the PC platform years ago.
Consoles are definitely a better bargain because they take a bit longer to become outdated and are much cheaper. But they are not the best gaming platform at all.
Overweight?? That's assuming you get up from your chair to eat!!!
Seriously though, I actually lost weight when I was addicted, and it was sad to find that most people don't take game addiction seriously...
Please...an addictive personality can get addicted to ANYTHING. Gaming does not promote addiction more than anything else. Far more people waste more time doing another activity thats promotes NO mental stimulation or interaction whatsoever: watching tv.
Generalizations will get you nowhere. I am a gamer and a personal trainer. To say I get out and exercise would be an understatement.
People are not playing games on the computer anymore.
They may not be buying so many games, but it sure seems like they are playing them longer. To me, the income Blizzard gets from WoW subscribers is staggering. I think the Sims line is one of the best selling game franchise in recent times, and that's primarily a PC game series.
Quote:
The consoles are far more powerful. XBox 360 and PS3 with their HD support blow away anything on a PC screen.
If the console is connected to a 1080p screen, then sure, I'll go along with that, though recent successes with the Wii would suggest that the broader market doesn't care so much about the technicals as long as it's fun. I can't get past it though.
Quote:
PS2 titles still outnumber any competing console or PC. I would much rather play a game on a nice large HDTV any day.
The existing PS2 library doesn't seem to matter much to me. They look like total crap on a "nice large HDTV", even with a PS3 doing the upscaling.
It's hardly astonishing that a lot of Mac users don't seem to be interested in games, but are using stuff Apple is strong at every day. That's probably because you chose the Mac because you knew it was strong at what you needed to get done.
Had you been interested in games, you probably wouldn't have chosen the Mac.
Thus, the apparent lack of Mac gamers is more of a proof of Apple's weakness in gaming, rather than Apple being right about not caring about games. Games is and has been a huge market for at least 15 years and Apple has failed to realize that so far. And that might very well be also due to the fact Steve hates games. Problem is, Steve isn't everyone.
Apple makes more money selling iPod's, which fits in with their market philosophy, than getting into the tricky world of 3-D gaming. It's a subjective call but I think it's simply too late to join that world. Gaming, as is found on the PC, is hardly the exciting new world one might think. It's the past and Apple has to think of the future. I'm not saying that there is no money in gaming, but the current approach is realy well served by the PC and consoles. I'd rather see Apple put its limited resources into more exciting things. Now if we were talking Star Trek simulation-decks that would be a different matter. My vote would be to more or less forget about 3-D gaming on the Mac.
You are clearly an idiot. What the heck do you know about the computer game market that someone who works in the computer game industry doesn't? If there wasn't money to be made in the computer game market, do you really think Valve, Blizzard, or EA would waste resources continuing to create games for PC's? Sorry, EA isn't making PC games just for the fun of it. If PC games weren't making money, EA would shut down that division in a heartbeat.
Perhaps you should do some research before talking out of your a**.
I have done research. Console games do sell more than PC games. Look it up yourself! Do you see any advertisements for PC gaming? Nope! XBox and PS2 and PS3 dominate the marketplace. Have you heard of Halo 3? If you are into gaming, you may have heard that it is the most popular sought-after game. By the way, did you know it is not available for the PC? Hmmm, I wonder why? Probably because most gamers have an XBox!
Blizzard. They make Warcraft, Diablo, and StarCraft. 10 year old games don't cut it. At least Valve has a long list of titles. EA. Go to their website and click on choose a platform. The PC platform is TENTH in the list, after all the consoles, including the handheld portables! EA's main business are console games, not PC games. Get your facts straight before you start mouthing off.
Apple sold the most Macs ever in the last quarter and it had nothing to do with games. Most games today suck anyway, they are all the same retarded first person shooters.
Why don't you pull your head out of your a** and produce some evidence that proves PC games sell more than console games, you f***ing loser.
A) Talking like that will get you banned.
Quote:
The consoles far outsell the PC market. EA is in business for the consoles, not PC's.
EA is in the business to make money. Whether that be with PC games or Console games. Ever heard of Battlefield 2? Battlfield 2 clearly dominated console sales on the pc. 2.5 million copies for the pc have been sold. Console has barely broke 1 million and that includes Xbox, xbox360, and ps2.
If EA was in the business just for consoles, why oh why did they waste any time / money producing 6 mac games this year?
Quote:
Apple sold the most Macs ever in the last quarter and it had nothing to do with games. Most games today suck anyway, they are all the same retarded first person shooters.
C) Had nothing to do with games? I and many others highly disagree. Apple is selling more macs today than 2 years ago because of 1 big change... the move to intel. Apples can finally play any windows game they want, run any windows software, and still have an OS X work environment. I know many people for years dismissed macs as a viable option because they couldn't run windows games or windows software on them. Now that they can they have taken the plunge. I uplay this value to every single person I try and get to switch. It's a big point that doesn't go unnoticed.
Apple is selling more machines than ever from many factors. Including the iPhone / iPod ripple effect. Intel movement. Frustraction from windows. Newer consumer crowd. Etc. But the biggest change out of all of those was the move to intel.
Your comments earlier completely dismissed any credit you may have had. Whether you want to face the facts or not, PC gaming is very much alive and well. And yes there are many types of games on the PC besides FPS including but not limited to: Flight Simulations, Real Time Strategy, 3rd Person Action, Role Playing, Racing and Racing Simulators, Westerns, Mass Multiplayer Online Role Playing, Sports, the list goes on.
Have you heard of Halo 3? If you are into gaming, you may have heard that it is the most popular sought-after game. By the way, did you know it is not available for the PC? Hmmm, I wonder why? Probably because most gamers have an XBox!
Until now most people thought this had to do with Microsoft desperately needing to prop up both XBox and Vista by not releasing bestselling games for other platforms (such as their own Windows XP). Thanks for setting the record straight.
Quote:
I have done research.
Apparently not.
Quote:
Blizzard. They make Warcraft, Diablo, and StarCraft. 10 year old games don't cut it.
A game property that brings in in excess of $1 billion a year? A game that has an own TV channel in Korea and whose top players are celebrities recognized on the street? Great, show me the console games that do better.
"Macs/Apple never about gaming? Meheh. Whither the Apple II? Or the early days of the Mac?"
Because the PC couldn't get its sound act together. It didn't take long for the Amiga to become the real game machine of the day. The GS was nice but hardly a speed demon!
Early Mac's were black/white and hardly gaming systems. Just look how fast the Sierra's of the world left it.
"Apple could rock the gaming world. It's just bizzare that they aren't."
They make more money emphasizing emerging areas. Gaming is interesting but it would take a massive effort to rethink Apple's approach. For one thing open consumer systems with PCI-e slots and so on just aren't going to happen. I'd rather have silence than the fan noise required to deal with most PC's graphics' cards (and I have one).
The same crowd who want higher-end 3-D gaming on the Mac also keep talking about Mac's that have an open design. It's not in the cards. For high-end gaming get a PC/console.
I disagree. It would take Apple not a huge effort to make a few things that would improve gaming a lot.
A slotted graphics card is feasible for even an iMac. A low cost, less expansive tower has been done in the past (performa line for example).
If Apple offered improved support for gaming on a software level, and increased choice in GPU selection, a lot of the problem was already solved. That is hardly more effort than launching an entire new product line, such as the iPhone.
And please, stop talking about Apple having limited resources. They have enough cash to do anything they want to.
Can someone ask Gabe when the *fuck* HL2: Episode 2 is going to come out? I'm dying here... Also Blizzard, StarCraft2 when? ARGHGHGH
Like a poster said above, upgrading and tweaking just to play a few select long (I mean, hella long) awaited titles, meh... Just not adding up for me. [see my signature below]
I'm ready to go console, except in my country (not Japan) the Wii is the most sensible contender. Nary a PS3 to be seen, sometimes not even in the official "Sony Centre"s.
I tried to install Command&Conquer: First Decade and my PC was freezing up and the nVidia 8500GT card textures kept getting corrupted. W.T.F.
Apologies for offensive language, but there was/is no other way to put it.
I shudder to think about the hoops I have to jump through to get BioShock up and running. And Halo3 for the PC when? Halo2 only Vista? Bloody hell.
If you wish to play games buy a Wii, PS3 or Xbox 360.
You'll get far more games, no hardware hassles and they aren't that expensive.
Who wants to have to buy and install expensive new graphics cards in a PC, fiddle with sound card settings etc every few months to play the games: only a very few geeks.
I only know one person who plays games on his PC and he wouldn't deny being a geek.
If you wish to play games buy a Wii, PS3 or Xbox 360.
You'll get far more games, no hardware hassles and they aren't that expensive.
Who wants to have to buy and install expensive new graphics cards in a PC, fiddle with sound card settings etc every few months to play the games: only a very few geeks.
I only know one person who plays games on his PC and he wouldn't deny being a geek.
Why do you people keeping post things like this?
Computer and console gaming are not the same thing!
Quote:
Originally Posted by nvidia2008
Can someone ask Gabe when the *fuck* HL2: Episode 2 is going to come out?
Computer and console gaming are not the same thing!
Well the Mac and Windows platforms are certainly not the same thing. Why does everyone seem to thing that the Mac platform has to ape Windows to improve?
Well the Mac and Windows platforms are certainly not the same thing.
Yes they are, Mac OS X is just much further along the evolutionary track than windows. PCs and consoles, however have hardware differences that lend themselves to different genres.
Comments
That's the thing, BIOS isn't efficient any more. With EFI you can get network connectivity and do bios updates, get drivers, fix viruses, fix windows. EFI allows more than 256 bits to the graphics card, allows full PCI speed. The BIOS can still get viruses.
Think of the EFI as a mini operating system. It's very powerful and much more useful than your standard BIOS. This is one of the big reasons Apple chose to go with EFI during the switch, (that and i'm sure Intel highly suggested it).
But my understanding is that all of the recent versions of Windows (basically, everything that has been based on the NT kernel) only rely on BIOS system calls for the time the computer actually spends booting up. Once Windows is actually running, BIOS software is bypassed entirely and the device drivers talk directly to the hardware registers associated with the peripherals. Windows installs its own service routines to handle interrupt requests from the hardware. BIOS cannot interfere at that level.
Heck, BIOS' standard syscalls aren't even compatible with the CPU once you've left Real (16-bit unprotected) mode.
Imagine what a different world it might be if Apple had bought Bungie. Would Halo have gone on to be the hit is today? Would Apple have let Bungie rot on the vine? Would Apple have made hardware to appeal to gamers?
But my understanding is that all of the recent versions of Windows (basically, everything that has been based on the NT kernel) only rely on BIOS system calls for the time the computer actually spends booting up. Once Windows is actually running, BIOS software is bypassed entirely and the device drivers talk directly to the hardware registers associated with the peripherals. Windows installs its own service routines to handle interrupt requests from the hardware. BIOS cannot interfere at that level.
Heck, BIOS' standard syscalls aren't even compatible with the CPU once you've left Real (16-bit unprotected) mode.
You're 100% correct. But you're missing the benefits of the time BEFORE the computer starts up off of the BIOS. There is a lot you can do with a computer before it actually boots. For instance recover from a system that doesn't boot up. Or get new drivers through a network. Or get simple network connectivity. There are many benefits here... too many to list. Little reading and you'll know why
It's ironic that just last week Steve was telling Yahoo "You have great assets?just like Apple did?and now it is all about execution" It seems Apple is the one with the execution issues as far as gaming goes.
Imagine what a different world it might be if Apple had bought Bungie. Would Halo have gone on to be the hit is today? Would Apple have let Bungie rot on the vine? Would Apple have made hardware to appeal to gamers?
http://www.dailytech.com/Report+Bung...rticle9139.htm
Speak of the devil?
People are not playing games on the computer anymore. The consoles are far more powerful. XBox 360 and PS3 with their HD support blow away anything on a PC screen.
Please show me where the punchbowl is that contains the Kool-aid you've been drinking because it seems like it's some good stuff!!
PC games are what push the limits of gaming. The technology eventually trickles down to consoles years later. Make no mistake about it it starts there. Gears Of War would have not been possible had Epic not developed the Unreal engine for the PC platform years ago.
Consoles are definitely a better bargain because they take a bit longer to become outdated and are much cheaper. But they are not the best gaming platform at all.
Overweight?? That's assuming you get up from your chair to eat!!!
Seriously though, I actually lost weight when I was addicted, and it was sad to find that most people don't take game addiction seriously...
Please...an addictive personality can get addicted to ANYTHING. Gaming does not promote addiction more than anything else. Far more people waste more time doing another activity thats promotes NO mental stimulation or interaction whatsoever: watching tv.
Generalizations will get you nowhere. I am a gamer and a personal trainer. To say I get out and exercise would be an understatement.
People are not playing games on the computer anymore.
They may not be buying so many games, but it sure seems like they are playing them longer. To me, the income Blizzard gets from WoW subscribers is staggering. I think the Sims line is one of the best selling game franchise in recent times, and that's primarily a PC game series.
The consoles are far more powerful. XBox 360 and PS3 with their HD support blow away anything on a PC screen.
If the console is connected to a 1080p screen, then sure, I'll go along with that, though recent successes with the Wii would suggest that the broader market doesn't care so much about the technicals as long as it's fun. I can't get past it though.
PS2 titles still outnumber any competing console or PC. I would much rather play a game on a nice large HDTV any day.
The existing PS2 library doesn't seem to matter much to me. They look like total crap on a "nice large HDTV", even with a PS3 doing the upscaling.
It's hardly astonishing that a lot of Mac users don't seem to be interested in games, but are using stuff Apple is strong at every day. That's probably because you chose the Mac because you knew it was strong at what you needed to get done.
Had you been interested in games, you probably wouldn't have chosen the Mac.
Thus, the apparent lack of Mac gamers is more of a proof of Apple's weakness in gaming, rather than Apple being right about not caring about games. Games is and has been a huge market for at least 15 years and Apple has failed to realize that so far. And that might very well be also due to the fact Steve hates games. Problem is, Steve isn't everyone.
Apple makes more money selling iPod's, which fits in with their market philosophy, than getting into the tricky world of 3-D gaming. It's a subjective call but I think it's simply too late to join that world. Gaming, as is found on the PC, is hardly the exciting new world one might think. It's the past and Apple has to think of the future. I'm not saying that there is no money in gaming, but the current approach is realy well served by the PC and consoles. I'd rather see Apple put its limited resources into more exciting things. Now if we were talking Star Trek simulation-decks that would be a different matter. My vote would be to more or less forget about 3-D gaming on the Mac.
philip
My vote would be to more or less forget about 3-D gaming on the Mac.
Wow... seems like we have some circa 1989 thinking going on here.
.
You are clearly an idiot. What the heck do you know about the computer game market that someone who works in the computer game industry doesn't? If there wasn't money to be made in the computer game market, do you really think Valve, Blizzard, or EA would waste resources continuing to create games for PC's? Sorry, EA isn't making PC games just for the fun of it. If PC games weren't making money, EA would shut down that division in a heartbeat.
Perhaps you should do some research before talking out of your a**.
I have done research. Console games do sell more than PC games. Look it up yourself! Do you see any advertisements for PC gaming? Nope! XBox and PS2 and PS3 dominate the marketplace. Have you heard of Halo 3? If you are into gaming, you may have heard that it is the most popular sought-after game. By the way, did you know it is not available for the PC? Hmmm, I wonder why? Probably because most gamers have an XBox!
Blizzard. They make Warcraft, Diablo, and StarCraft. 10 year old games don't cut it. At least Valve has a long list of titles. EA. Go to their website and click on choose a platform. The PC platform is TENTH in the list, after all the consoles, including the handheld portables! EA's main business are console games, not PC games. Get your facts straight before you start mouthing off.
Why don't you pull your head out of your a** and produce some evidence that proves PC games sell more than console games, you f***ing loser.
A) Talking like that will get you banned.
The consoles far outsell the PC market. EA is in business for the consoles, not PC's.
If EA was in the business just for consoles, why oh why did they waste any time / money producing 6 mac games this year?
Apple sold the most Macs ever in the last quarter and it had nothing to do with games. Most games today suck anyway, they are all the same retarded first person shooters.
C) Had nothing to do with games? I and many others highly disagree. Apple is selling more macs today than 2 years ago because of 1 big change... the move to intel. Apples can finally play any windows game they want, run any windows software, and still have an OS X work environment. I know many people for years dismissed macs as a viable option because they couldn't run windows games or windows software on them. Now that they can they have taken the plunge. I uplay this value to every single person I try and get to switch. It's a big point that doesn't go unnoticed.
Apple is selling more machines than ever from many factors. Including the iPhone / iPod ripple effect. Intel movement. Frustraction from windows. Newer consumer crowd. Etc. But the biggest change out of all of those was the move to intel.
Your comments earlier completely dismissed any credit you may have had. Whether you want to face the facts or not, PC gaming is very much alive and well. And yes there are many types of games on the PC besides FPS including but not limited to: Flight Simulations, Real Time Strategy, 3rd Person Action, Role Playing, Racing and Racing Simulators, Westerns, Mass Multiplayer Online Role Playing, Sports, the list goes on.
Have you heard of Halo 3? If you are into gaming, you may have heard that it is the most popular sought-after game. By the way, did you know it is not available for the PC? Hmmm, I wonder why? Probably because most gamers have an XBox!
Until now most people thought this had to do with Microsoft desperately needing to prop up both XBox and Vista by not releasing bestselling games for other platforms (such as their own Windows XP). Thanks for setting the record straight.
I have done research.
Apparently not.
Blizzard. They make Warcraft, Diablo, and StarCraft. 10 year old games don't cut it.
A game property that brings in in excess of $1 billion a year? A game that has an own TV channel in Korea and whose top players are celebrities recognized on the street? Great, show me the console games that do better.
Because the PC couldn't get its sound act together. It didn't take long for the Amiga to become the real game machine of the day. The GS was nice but hardly a speed demon!
Early Mac's were black/white and hardly gaming systems. Just look how fast the Sierra's of the world left it.
"Apple could rock the gaming world. It's just bizzare that they aren't."
They make more money emphasizing emerging areas. Gaming is interesting but it would take a massive effort to rethink Apple's approach. For one thing open consumer systems with PCI-e slots and so on just aren't going to happen. I'd rather have silence than the fan noise required to deal with most PC's graphics' cards (and I have one).
The same crowd who want higher-end 3-D gaming on the Mac also keep talking about Mac's that have an open design. It's not in the cards. For high-end gaming get a PC/console.
philip
A slotted graphics card is feasible for even an iMac. A low cost, less expansive tower has been done in the past (performa line for example).
If Apple offered improved support for gaming on a software level, and increased choice in GPU selection, a lot of the problem was already solved. That is hardly more effort than launching an entire new product line, such as the iPhone.
And please, stop talking about Apple having limited resources. They have enough cash to do anything they want to.
Like a poster said above, upgrading and tweaking just to play a few select long (I mean, hella long) awaited titles, meh... Just not adding up for me. [see my signature below]
I'm ready to go console, except in my country (not Japan) the Wii is the most sensible contender. Nary a PS3 to be seen, sometimes not even in the official "Sony Centre"s.
I tried to install Command&Conquer: First Decade and my PC was freezing up and the nVidia 8500GT card textures kept getting corrupted. W.T.F.
Apologies for offensive language, but there was/is no other way to put it.
I shudder to think about the hoops I have to jump through to get BioShock up and running. And Halo3 for the PC when? Halo2 only Vista? Bloody hell.
You'll get far more games, no hardware hassles and they aren't that expensive.
Who wants to have to buy and install expensive new graphics cards in a PC, fiddle with sound card settings etc every few months to play the games: only a very few geeks.
I only know one person who plays games on his PC and he wouldn't deny being a geek.
If you wish to play games buy a Wii, PS3 or Xbox 360.
You'll get far more games, no hardware hassles and they aren't that expensive.
Who wants to have to buy and install expensive new graphics cards in a PC, fiddle with sound card settings etc every few months to play the games: only a very few geeks.
I only know one person who plays games on his PC and he wouldn't deny being a geek.
Why do you people keeping post things like this?
Computer and console gaming are not the same thing!
Can someone ask Gabe when the *fuck* HL2: Episode 2 is going to come out?
Next week. Oct 10th specifically.
Why do you people keeping post things like this?
Computer and console gaming are not the same thing!
Well the Mac and Windows platforms are certainly not the same thing. Why does everyone seem to thing that the Mac platform has to ape Windows to improve?
Well the Mac and Windows platforms are certainly not the same thing.
Yes they are, Mac OS X is just much further along the evolutionary track than windows. PCs and consoles, however have hardware differences that lend themselves to different genres.