I think the 8600 mobile is a perfect card for laptops. It is 128bit, but come on guys. It doesn't use much battery, it isn't as hot as the 7600 and does a half way decent job at graphics. Laptop wise I'm pretty happy with apple.
It's the desktop line up that needs a serious eye thrown at it.
Sure. But with the Wii gun games might make a come back given most light guns don't work on flat screens. That's a genre that never was on the PC and on par with the flight sim niche.
I wasn't aware that light guns were incompatible with flat panels, which I'm not sure what the problem would be except maybe LCD response time. I did see a light gun stock for the Wii, but I don't remember much between the NES and Wii.
I wasn't aware that light guns were incompatible with flat panels, which I'm not sure what the problem would be except maybe LCD response time. I did see a light gun stock for the Wii, but I don't remember much between the NES and Wii.
Oh come on, you don't remember SuperScope 16?????? That was fun.... for about 30 minutes. hehe.
I don't think there would be any problem running a gun on a computer, cept for the fact you are usually only 3-4 feet away from the screen.
That's great if Jobs is going to be the sole consumer of Apple computers, but not so great for the real world where people would like to be able to do what the things they enjoy with their computers. As someone who likes games, my next computer purchase will probably be back to the Windows side.
Someone made the comment on another thread that they thought Jobs would close off Apple computers just like iPods and iPhones if he could and I honestly believe he might. He seems like he's trying to create his own computer ecosystem anyhow. With iLife, iWork, the pro apps trying to cut out the need for Adobe. The iTunes/iPod/iPhone/AppleTV chain. Honestly, Apple only makes one open computer (the Mac Pro) and as the name and price both imply, it's not really designed for the home market.
Sorry, organizing photos and making YouTube videos isn't my idea of a great time. But that sort of seems like what Jobs has in mind for the Mac.
I've wondered if one of the first seminars new Apple employees are given is entitled, "Your opinion matters. Just as long as it's the same as Steve Jobs."
Well I for one think Steve's opinions are correct most of the time. We have tried this both ways.
Apple went through a period when they did not trust steve. It was called 1986-1997. THEN, Apple went back under Steve's guidance. That period was 1998-2007. Any questions? I'll take the Steve route for $1000.
Well I for one think Steve's opinions are correct most of the time. We have tried this both ways.
Apple went through a period when they did not trust steve. It was called 1986-1997. THEN, Apple went back under Steve's guidance. That period was 1998-2007. Any questions? I'll take the Steve route for $1000.
In all fairness, the period when they didn't trust Steve started because he was plotting to backstab the CEO that he hired. That's hardly the behavior of anyone trying to present themselves as trustworthy. And the entire 80's was generally a great time for Apple, that's when they got a lot of the money that they bled in the late 90's.
The 8600M is a fine card indeed. Apple could have gone for 512MB VRAM, but that's about it.
At least for games, there'd be no point to go 512MB. The only way you break the 256MB VRAM barrier is with large textures and resolutions, and once you up the graphic quality that high, 8600M's own throughput isn't enough to handle it.
Any evidence? They didn't even bother to post their usual gaming benchmarks on iMac webpages at last update.
Quote:
So far they have signed big names like:
Blizzard
... has always released their stuff on the Mac, likely because all their games have very light hardware requirements - still, everything runs 30% slower or so on the Mac
Quote:
EA
... now wraps years-old games in an emulation layer and calls it "Mac software", doesn't cost them anything
Quote:
id
... has a culture of making software that is extremely cross-platform to begin with, so Mac support along with all the other platforms that have the necessary frameworks and middleware is also free for id
Quote:
Trust me, Valve will come around soon. The potential market for Steam on Macs is vast.
Trust me, Valve will come around soon. The potential market for Steam on Macs is vast.
EA has been rehashing the same stuff for years, they're become a bit of a joke in the console and PC market, but as long as people continue to buy Madden, they really don't have many reasons to change.
If Apple wanted to begin being taken seriously as a player, they would have to dump the Intel GMA 950 - it's garbage for anything new, my Toshiba has an ATI x1200 IGP, and even though it's better than the 950, it sucks for anything new. An updated Macbook with the GMA x3100 would be a start.
So Apple has effectively limited their market to machines that cost over $2000, and most gamers know how to build their own computers, and a PC can be built with a Nvidia 8800 for around $1000, with a C2D, a couple gigs of RAM, etc.
An expandable mid-tower for around $1200-1500 would help Apple compete in that area.
EA has been rehashing the same stuff for years, they're become a bit of a joke in the console and PC market, but as long as people continue to buy Madden, they really don't have many reasons to change.
If Apple wanted to begin being taken seriously as a player, they would have to dump the Intel GMA 950 - it's garbage for anything new, my Toshiba has an ATI x1200 IGP, and even though it's better than the 950, it sucks for anything new. An updated Macbook with the GMA x3100 would be a start.
So Apple has effectively limited their market to machines that cost over $2000, and most gamers know how to build their own computers, and a PC can be built with a Nvidia 8800 for around $1000, with a C2D, a couple gigs of RAM, etc.
An expandable mid-tower for around $1200-1500 would help Apple compete in that area.
Also a premium notebook like the Macbook should have an 8400G or GS in there. It may be entry level for the Mac but it's not by any means an entry level machine.
Also a premium notebook like the Macbook should have an 8400G or GS in there. It may be entry level for the Mac but it's not by any means an entry level machine.
Good point, and I agree.
While I understand how Apple has higher profit margins, and they stress thinner designs and whatnot over typical PC's, specs wise, the current Macbook isn't the greatest - I mean the cheapest MB doesn't even have a DVD burner, and the GMA 950 has been around for 3-4 years now, both Intel, Nvidia, and ATI have better IGP chipsets out now that would run circles around it. If I compare the Macbook to another Windows laptop, based on the specs, it should really be a $600 laptop.
I wanted to get a Macbook at the start of the semester, but I had to put my money else where, but I still needed a laptop, so I bought a Windows laptop. For less than $800, my Toshiba has 2 GB of RAM, a 200 GB HD, an ATI x1200 IGP, a dvd burner, xD/SD/MS card reader, and a webcam, 4-pin Firewire, and 4 USB ports, and a little over 6 pounds. While it uses an AMD dual-core chip, it been more than fast enough. Even Vista Home Premium and drivers have not been an issue (some program issues with my Java compiler), but Office 2007 and Photoshop CS3 run great with it.
yeah, i want games on my mac... and NEON and chrome and spinners and a little lcd on the tower to run my itunes visualizer. and a plexiglass panel on my case to see the two $800 graphics cards i've got sucking 1400 watts of power, and a digital readout of processor temp, and five optical drive bays. i want - no i don't want chrome, i want plastic that LOOKS like chrome. yeah, and a blacklight instead of neon. OHHH, and make my computer look like an ALIEN! 1337 PWN4G3! YEAH, and give me a 96,000 dpi laser mouse with 37 buttons and four scroll wheels on it FTW!
come on apple, why can't i customize your industrial design?
i don't care about games stick with what you're doing 10x better than anyone else.
Absolutely brilliant. You forgot about the diesel generator and the punchcard/8"/5 1/4"/3 1/2" floppy/tape drive and liquid nitrogen cooling and 43 optical bays and 82 fans and heatsyncs on every chip, though.
Most computers sold (PC and Mac) have Intel integrated graphics. Last I saw 70% of laptops sold have IG and around 60% of desktops.
I'm also under the impression that most computers are sold with an Intel GMA 9xx graphics processors.
I think when you spend all your free time in the [Il]and of make believe[/I] you start thinking that everyone must have some souped-up video processor and that despite the multitude of online gamers out there it really doesn't begin to compare to the the number of computers being sold worldwide.
I'm quite happy with my MacBook's Intel GMA 950 graphics processor as I am not a gamer. With my 2GHz C2D w/ 4MB L2 Cache & 2GB RAM I have absolutely nothing to complain about.
Comments
It's the desktop line up that needs a serious eye thrown at it.
The MBP is currently the only Mac where there's really little to complain about, even for gaming.
The Mac Pro needs a serious update in graphics card choices and the iMac needs an option for a stronger GPU.
Mac mini and MacBook are totally left in the dust, they need to be redesigned from the ground up (PCB-wise, enclosures are fine).
Sure. But with the Wii gun games might make a come back given most light guns don't work on flat screens. That's a genre that never was on the PC and on par with the flight sim niche.
I wasn't aware that light guns were incompatible with flat panels, which I'm not sure what the problem would be except maybe LCD response time. I did see a light gun stock for the Wii, but I don't remember much between the NES and Wii.
I wasn't aware that light guns were incompatible with flat panels, which I'm not sure what the problem would be except maybe LCD response time. I did see a light gun stock for the Wii, but I don't remember much between the NES and Wii.
Oh come on, you don't remember SuperScope 16??????
I don't think there would be any problem running a gun on a computer, cept for the fact you are usually only 3-4 feet away from the screen.
http://www.insidemacgames.com/featur...log.php?ID=111
That's great if Jobs is going to be the sole consumer of Apple computers, but not so great for the real world where people would like to be able to do what the things they enjoy with their computers. As someone who likes games, my next computer purchase will probably be back to the Windows side.
Someone made the comment on another thread that they thought Jobs would close off Apple computers just like iPods and iPhones if he could and I honestly believe he might. He seems like he's trying to create his own computer ecosystem anyhow. With iLife, iWork, the pro apps trying to cut out the need for Adobe. The iTunes/iPod/iPhone/AppleTV chain. Honestly, Apple only makes one open computer (the Mac Pro) and as the name and price both imply, it's not really designed for the home market.
Sorry, organizing photos and making YouTube videos isn't my idea of a great time. But that sort of seems like what Jobs has in mind for the Mac.
I've wondered if one of the first seminars new Apple employees are given is entitled, "Your opinion matters. Just as long as it's the same as Steve Jobs."
Well I for one think Steve's opinions are correct most of the time. We have tried this both ways.
Apple went through a period when they did not trust steve. It was called 1986-1997. THEN, Apple went back under Steve's guidance. That period was 1998-2007. Any questions? I'll take the Steve route for $1000.
Well I for one think Steve's opinions are correct most of the time. We have tried this both ways.
Apple went through a period when they did not trust steve. It was called 1986-1997. THEN, Apple went back under Steve's guidance. That period was 1998-2007. Any questions? I'll take the Steve route for $1000.
In all fairness, the period when they didn't trust Steve started because he was plotting to backstab the CEO that he hired. That's hardly the behavior of anyone trying to present themselves as trustworthy. And the entire 80's was generally a great time for Apple, that's when they got a lot of the money that they bled in the late 90's.
So far they have signed big names like:
Blizzard
EA
id
Trust me, Valve will come around soon. The potential market for Steam on Macs is vast.
The 8600M is a fine card indeed. Apple could have gone for 512MB VRAM, but that's about it.
At least for games, there'd be no point to go 512MB. The only way you break the 256MB VRAM barrier is with large textures and resolutions, and once you up the graphic quality that high, 8600M's own throughput isn't enough to handle it.
Apple is working on the game dept...
Any evidence? They didn't even bother to post their usual gaming benchmarks on iMac webpages at last update.
So far they have signed big names like:
Blizzard
... has always released their stuff on the Mac, likely because all their games have very light hardware requirements - still, everything runs 30% slower or so on the Mac
EA
... now wraps years-old games in an emulation layer and calls it "Mac software", doesn't cost them anything
id
... has a culture of making software that is extremely cross-platform to begin with, so Mac support along with all the other platforms that have the necessary frameworks and middleware is also free for id
Trust me, Valve will come around soon. The potential market for Steam on Macs is vast.
Not until Apple releases a lot of new hardware.
Apple is working on the game dept...
So far they have signed big names like:
Blizzard
EA
id
I don't think anyone has signed anything.
Only three players, and one of them uses a Windows emulation layer on their new titles. They pretty much had Blizzard all along.
Trust me, Valve will come around soon. The potential market for Steam on Macs is vast.
Not so much when probably most Macs sold to consumers have integrated Intel graphics.
Apple is working on the game dept...
So far they have signed big names like:
Blizzard
EA
id
Trust me, Valve will come around soon. The potential market for Steam on Macs is vast.
EA has been rehashing the same stuff for years, they're become a bit of a joke in the console and PC market, but as long as people continue to buy Madden, they really don't have many reasons to change.
If Apple wanted to begin being taken seriously as a player, they would have to dump the Intel GMA 950 - it's garbage for anything new, my Toshiba has an ATI x1200 IGP, and even though it's better than the 950, it sucks for anything new. An updated Macbook with the GMA x3100 would be a start.
So Apple has effectively limited their market to machines that cost over $2000, and most gamers know how to build their own computers, and a PC can be built with a Nvidia 8800 for around $1000, with a C2D, a couple gigs of RAM, etc.
An expandable mid-tower for around $1200-1500 would help Apple compete in that area.
EA has been rehashing the same stuff for years, they're become a bit of a joke in the console and PC market, but as long as people continue to buy Madden, they really don't have many reasons to change.
If Apple wanted to begin being taken seriously as a player, they would have to dump the Intel GMA 950 - it's garbage for anything new, my Toshiba has an ATI x1200 IGP, and even though it's better than the 950, it sucks for anything new. An updated Macbook with the GMA x3100 would be a start.
So Apple has effectively limited their market to machines that cost over $2000, and most gamers know how to build their own computers, and a PC can be built with a Nvidia 8800 for around $1000, with a C2D, a couple gigs of RAM, etc.
An expandable mid-tower for around $1200-1500 would help Apple compete in that area.
Also a premium notebook like the Macbook should have an 8400G or GS in there. It may be entry level for the Mac but it's not by any means an entry level machine.
Also a premium notebook like the Macbook should have an 8400G or GS in there. It may be entry level for the Mac but it's not by any means an entry level machine.
Good point, and I agree.
While I understand how Apple has higher profit margins, and they stress thinner designs and whatnot over typical PC's, specs wise, the current Macbook isn't the greatest - I mean the cheapest MB doesn't even have a DVD burner, and the GMA 950 has been around for 3-4 years now, both Intel, Nvidia, and ATI have better IGP chipsets out now that would run circles around it. If I compare the Macbook to another Windows laptop, based on the specs, it should really be a $600 laptop.
I wanted to get a Macbook at the start of the semester, but I had to put my money else where, but I still needed a laptop, so I bought a Windows laptop. For less than $800, my Toshiba has 2 GB of RAM, a 200 GB HD, an ATI x1200 IGP, a dvd burner, xD/SD/MS card reader, and a webcam, 4-pin Firewire, and 4 USB ports, and a little over 6 pounds. While it uses an AMD dual-core chip, it been more than fast enough. Even Vista Home Premium and drivers have not been an issue (some program issues with my Java compiler), but Office 2007 and Photoshop CS3 run great with it.
yeah, i want games on my mac... and NEON and chrome and spinners and a little lcd on the tower to run my itunes visualizer. and a plexiglass panel on my case to see the two $800 graphics cards i've got sucking 1400 watts of power, and a digital readout of processor temp, and five optical drive bays. i want - no i don't want chrome, i want plastic that LOOKS like chrome. yeah, and a blacklight instead of neon. OHHH, and make my computer look like an ALIEN! 1337 PWN4G3! YEAH, and give me a 96,000 dpi laser mouse with 37 buttons and four scroll wheels on it FTW!
come on apple, why can't i customize your industrial design?
i don't care about games
Absolutely brilliant. You forgot about the diesel generator and the punchcard/8"/5 1/4"/3 1/2" floppy/tape drive and liquid nitrogen cooling and 43 optical bays and 82 fans and heatsyncs on every chip, though.
Not so much when probably most Macs sold to consumers have integrated Intel graphics.
Most computers sold (PC and Mac) have Intel integrated graphics. Last I saw 70% of laptops sold have IG and around 60% of desktops.
Most computers sold (PC and Mac) have Intel integrated graphics. Last I saw 70% of laptops sold have IG and around 60% of desktops.
I'm also under the impression that most computers are sold with an Intel GMA 9xx graphics processors.
I think when you spend all your free time in the [Il]and of make believe[/I] you start thinking that everyone must have some souped-up video processor and that despite the multitude of online gamers out there it really doesn't begin to compare to the the number of computers being sold worldwide.
I'm quite happy with my MacBook's Intel GMA 950 graphics processor as I am not a gamer. With my 2GHz C2D w/ 4MB L2 Cache & 2GB RAM I have absolutely nothing to complain about.
Most computers sold (PC and Mac) have Intel integrated graphics. Last I saw 70% of laptops sold have IG and around 60% of desktops.
They're for low end customers.
They're for low end customers.
What does that matter? The point is the far majority of the computer market uses integrated graphics.