Steve Jobs talks future Mac OS X upgrades, Mac sales, and more

124678

Comments

  • Reply 61 of 155
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by desarc View Post


    look, i'm a mac fan and all, but please tell me what the major upgrades are?



    * i understand time machine is great for people who know nothing about backing up their files, but for the rest of us, who cares about it?

    * i can email myself a note? yeah, i did that before, with an email subject line.

    * i can put stacks into the dock? that's nice, but a Major upgrade?

    * i can use a pretty template for my email to increase it's file size?

    * can coverflow preview indesign, photoshop, or illustrator files? dreamweaver files? flash files?

    * i can put a fake waterfall behind me in ichat? sweet.

    * i have two monitors, i don't need "spaces" - [i'll admit, spaces could be nice for some people who haven't learned apple-tab]

    * boot camp? "here's our new os, it features an easy way to use somebody else's os"



    ...i think i can wait for the next version. thanks for letting me know it won't be long until it's released!

    i'll look forward to 10.6 "Bobcat" at MWSF 09.



    This, I agree with. I think 10.5 is cool, but a lot of it seems to be eye-candy. Frankly, I see no reason to switch yet from 10.4.10. At least, not yet, for $129.



    I think that, at the very least, Apple could have improved iChat to be become an actually usable piece of software, by enabling it to link better with the non-Apple, firewall-ridden, ports-limited world.
  • Reply 62 of 155
    jeffdmjeffdm Posts: 12,946member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by melgross View Post


    Quote:
    Originally Posted by JeffDM View Post


    It wouldn't surprise me if they tried. If you look at the "new features" page, I think Apple counts the fact that Leopard can read FAT 32 as a new feature.



    Well, that would be a very minor feature. Possibly a thousand people might uograde for that one.



    I hope they don't upgrade for that, it's not even a new feature.
  • Reply 63 of 155
    Man, there's a surprise. An AI article that spawns in to "Apple HAS to make an upgradable iMac-priced desktop or they'll, like, DIE!"



    For average user (aka Anyone that doesn't know what a graphics card is) the iMac and Mac mini are fine. If you plan on doing GPU/CPU/etc heavy work, then you want a Mac Pro. The average user at most is going to use their computer for email, surfing, documents, finding information and such. None of that requires a huge lumbering expandable desktop. Doubly when a minute portion of these 'average users' would ever even upgrade anything!



    The only argument I ever hear is 'Yes but but for gaming!' - well if that average user wants to buy a Dell and play games on it, that's fine. Apple has made it clear that they're not going to go out of their way to complicate their desktop lineup simply for the prospect of a marginal increase from "gamers". And this isn't even taking in to account the vast majority of "gamers" are rather anti-Apple, whether rightly so or not.



    What people are really saying is "I want Apple to release a Mac Pro level upgradable desktop, that looks good, is smaller than a Mac Pro and cheaper just because I want one".



    [e]: Why not be at least vaguely realistic and just hope Apple creates a cheaper, lower end Mac Pro?
  • Reply 64 of 155
    kreshkresh Posts: 379member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Booga View Post


    Look everyone! Look how bad our desktop lineup is! Compared to everyone else, almost no one wants to buy Apple desktops, isn't that great?!



    I agree with you. I get so mad when Steve brags that Apple sells 2/3's notebook to desktop.



    It's a self-fulfilling prophecy. Guess what Steve, it's really not an all-in-one world as Apple's desktop to notebook ratio reflects. Apple's ratios are a screw-up, not a bragging point.



    Apple sells over 66% notebooks and the industry just broke 50%. That means Apple is losing sales on some desktops not that they are converting 1/3 of desktop users into Notebook users.
  • Reply 65 of 155
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Core2 View Post


    How much is the Windows Vista Family pack again? I forget... ;-)



    From January to June of this year, MS had a limited time promotion which allowed you, with the purchase of 1 copy of Ulitmate, to purchase up to 2 additional licenses of Home Premium for $49.99 each.



    That would been attempting to appeal to the majority of home users who honestly wouldn't miss anything by losing out on features like Novell Netware connectivity, home directory encryption, or Unix subsystem support.



    Of course, that offer is no longer is available today. (But then again, I would recommend that anybody who's using XP today probably shouldn't even contemplate the possibility of considering upgrading to Vista until they have absolutely no alternative due to the end of MS's long term support program and deprecation by their 3rd party software vendors.)
  • Reply 66 of 155
    wizard69wizard69 Posts: 12,791member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by auxio View Post


    What's wrong with the 2.0GHz Mac Mini?



    Well since you asked;



    1.

    The mini lacks in expansion capabilities.

    2.

    One place lacking is in the area of RAM expansion. You have both a limitation in maximum capacity and the fact that odd DIMMs are used.

    3.

    Lacking internal Harddisk storage size and expansion potential.

    4.

    Very much an outdated video system.

    5

    Outdated optical media drive.

    6.

    Lack of expansion ports.



    Note that these are a concern if the machine is you primary PC. It is a different story if you have a home network and the Mini is just a node on that network. In a nut shell the Mini is extremely limited as far as a traditional desktop machine goes.

    Quote:



    Sure it's not (easily) upgradeable, but it has decent specs, and as you can tell from the majority of Apple's computer lineup, they aren't creating products for the "I want to customize every component in my computer" (read: gamer) crowd.



    This is where I have to disagree. The specs where decent a year or so ago but now the Mini is rather dated considering its selling price. You expect bottom end hardware for bottom end prices, this is not where the Mini is being marketed at.



    In any event the needs described above have nothing to do with gaming.

    Quote:



    If that's what you're looking for, then you'll never be satisfied because Apple doesn't want to get into providing tech support for problems like: "I just bought and installed Knockoff brand expansion card in my Mac and now it locks up all the time. Please spend lots of time and money in tech support helping me with a problem that's due to Knockoff Inc. not creating their products to spec, providing decent drivers, and/or rushing them to market as cheaply made as possible."



    Boy are we not whining about nothing today. It isn't a question of esoteric expansion but rather the need to spend money wisely. There in many of us have this idea that a PC needs to be around for a long time on our desk top to justify its price. A desktop machine provides a platform in which it can be viable and cost effective to keep for a number of years, if the base machine is solid to begin with. This is where the mini now falters, it is no longer a platform up to date enough to justify its price for a long term investment.



    Dave
  • Reply 67 of 155
    jeffdmjeffdm Posts: 12,946member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by esXXI View Post


    What people are really saying is "I want Apple to release a Mac Pro level upgradable desktop, that looks good, is smaller than a Mac Pro and cheaper just because I want one".



    Actually no, that's not quite it, way off base in some ways. I don't think these people are asking for a cheap Mac Pro. A lot of people are asking for a non-workstation tower. Telling people to buy a workstation doesn't make sense. The costs can go down considerably when workstation parts aren't used.
  • Reply 68 of 155
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Booga View Post


    Look everyone! Look how bad our desktop lineup is! Compared to everyone else, almost no one wants to buy Apple desktops, isn't that great?!



    Based on that "logic", since ALL companies are seeing notebook sales outpace desktop sales, then I guess ALL companies have bad desktop lineups?





    People just increasingly want laptops more than desktops. And if apple's desktop line truly was bad, wouldn't we see apple's market share hurting, instead of increasing more than just about anyone elses?



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by thedonga View Post


    I guess I'm no one then, because I want a desktop but Apple doesn't have one...workstation? yep. glorified upright laptop? yep.....desktop nope.



    While I'd like to see a third model in the middle, apple certainly has two desktops in the pro and mini. I guess the iMac is kind of a desktop in that it's not a laptop, but it doesn't fit the bill for me.
  • Reply 69 of 155
    mr. hmr. h Posts: 4,720member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by physguy View Post


    That's certainly the glass half empty interpretation. The other interpretation is equally valid, that the laptops are so much better than other available that they pull more than their default share. Take your pick.



    If Apple's laptops are so much better than other available laptops, why can't Apple's desktop machines also be so much better than other available desktops?



    If take a step back and look at Apple's line-up as objectively as possible, from a hardware perspective you will see that whilst Apple's laptops are very nice, they aren't that much better than the competition. Better, yes; way, way, way better, no. The basic form-factor of an Apple laptop is the same as a Windows laptop; Apple's laptop lineup delivers the hardware that the market expects in a laptop.



    You have to come to the conclusion that the real draw is OS X over Windows. Apple's laptops demonstrate that given hardware that the market expects, people will switch from Windows to OS X.



    Now look at the desktop side. All Apple delivers is niche products: a high-end workstation, a laptop/desktop hybrid on a stick (iMac), and a laptop with no screen and no battery (Mac Mini). Whichever way you cut it, these machines are niche products that are failing to replicate on the desktop side, the mass Windows to OS X switching that is occurring on the laptop side.
  • Reply 70 of 155
    mr. hmr. h Posts: 4,720member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by minderbinder View Post


    Based on that "logic", since ALL companies are seeing notebook sales outpace desktop sales, then I guess ALL companies have bad desktop lineups?





    No, that is not boogas' logic.



    His logic is that the overall market split is about 50/50 desktop to laptop, but Apple is only selling 1/3 desktops. i.e., relative to the number of laptops they are selling, Apple aren't selling "enough" desktops (it should be 1/2, not 1/3).
  • Reply 71 of 155
    asciiascii Posts: 5,941member
    There's still a *lot* of scope for computers to be easier to use/more intuitive and Apple is the company to do it.



    As Jobs pointed out they were the first not just with the GUI, but with the stylus and now the touch interface. (first to bring it to the people, which is what counts. "Real artists ship")



    I think the CoreAnimation framework in Leopard should help developers do better interfaces on Apple than on other platforms.
  • Reply 72 of 155
    physguyphysguy Posts: 915member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by wizard69 View Post


    Well since you asked;





    Boy are we not whining about nothing today. It isn't a question of esoteric expansion but rather the need to spend money wisely. There in many of us have this idea that a PC needs to be around for a long time on our desk top to justify its price. A desktop machine provides a platform in which it can be viable and cost effective to keep for a number of years, if the base machine is solid to begin with. This is where the mini now falters, it is no longer a platform up to date enough to justify its price for a long term investment.



    Dave



    From observing some friends that do this all the time, if this is for 'work' then they are not spending their money wisely. The time they spend configuring, ordering, installing, debugging, and general support of all of these upgrades would easily pay for a new machine, especially since you can sell the older Mac for a reasonable price, if you want to invest even that time.





    For hobbyist, it is, of course, as different equation, but then I really don't expect Apple to cater to that reasonably small market. That's not their goal.
  • Reply 73 of 155
    asciiascii Posts: 5,941member
    Since Mac OS X is now used on iPhone and iPod as well, shouldn't they rename it Apple OS?
  • Reply 74 of 155
    desarcdesarc Posts: 642member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by ascii View Post


    Since Mac OS X is now used on iPhone and iPod as well, shouldn't they rename it Apple OS?



    ...and what would we name iTunes since it's also a place to buy movies, tv shows, videos, podcasts, audiobooks, and games, as well as a synching program for iCal and Address Book to iPods and iPhone...



    melgross: i just think OS 9 to OS X is a "Major" upgrade. XP to Vista is a "Major" upgrade.

    my post was a question: WHAT constitutes a "Major Upgrade"?
  • Reply 75 of 155
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by melgross View Post


    I doubt it. When Apple was struggling, it could have used that, but even then, when 10.1 came out, it was a free upgrade. While the boost in profits is great, Apple is beyond needing to do it just for the sake of getting some more money. People would not feel too happy if they felt the OS upgrade was a thinly disguised profit booster without giving enough to make it worthwhile.



    Some people here already feel that's the case.



    Some people (who?) here already feel that's the case (what?)



    It sounded like you supported there issue. If not, I would have phrased it different. Perhaps had prefixed the sentence with a, "Unfortunately, (some people?)"
  • Reply 76 of 155
    the fact that almost every thread on every mac forum turns into "I want to buy an XMAC" should inform us to something: There is a huge market of people who want a desktop machine that's not a mini, an imac or a fracking macPro annihilator.



    We want to spend 1300-1500 bucks on a machine with space for a video card, HDs, more ram, and no monitor built in.



    how fracking hard is that to understand? The OP is right. Apple's desktop lineup sucks. That's why nobody buys them.
  • Reply 77 of 155
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by ascii View Post


    Since Mac OS X is now used on iPhone and iPod as well, shouldn't they rename it Apple OS?



    Doesn't exactly roll off the toungue now does it?
  • Reply 78 of 155
    desarcdesarc Posts: 642member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by freakboy View Post


    There is a huge market of people who want a desktop machine that's not a mini, an imac or a fracking macPro annihilator.



    i'm much more interested in the rumored ultra-portable [2-3 lbs, 10-12" screen, uber-thin]

    my laptop is almost 7 lbs and my iPhone is annoying to surf the web on.

    [almost back on topic - i don't really care about desktops except for my computer at work - a macpro]
  • Reply 79 of 155
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by wizard69 View Post


    Well since you asked;





    2.

    One place lacking is in the area of RAM expansion. You have both a limitation in maximum capacity and the fact that odd DIMMs are used.



    What do you mean by "old DIMMs"?
  • Reply 80 of 155
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by houseley View Post


    Bboybazza,



    Have you met the Full Stop?



    Full Stop, I'd like you to meet Bboybazza.



    Punctuation is our friend.



    In America we call those "periods," no one had a clue what "full stop" means unless it's related to halting a sailing vessel's progress or shutting down machinery.
Sign In or Register to comment.