Convenience will win over a marginal quality gain every time. Unless of course, you are a hardcore enthusiast.
Ironic that you would write that. Only the hardcore enthusiasts know how to use Usenet, torrents or other P2P. Others find that kind of stuff too cryptic, difficult and "inconvenient." Much easier just to pop a disc into a player. Everybody understands how to do that.
Ironic that you would write that. Only the hardcore enthusiasts know how to use Usenet, torrents or other P2P. Others find that kind of stuff too cryptic, difficult and "inconvenient." Much easier just to pop a disc into a player. Everybody understands how to do that.
You are right, that some of the technology is still clunky.
But I have just been running Boxee on my AppleTV.
Boxee presents a menu of all my file-based content, alongside available web content for streaming. It even lets me see what friends recommend, highlights new stuff and so on.
The technology is still rough around the edges, but this *feels* like the future.
Driving to the mall to buy a disk full of files, feels like the past.
While the "HD streaming rulez!one11!1!" bandwagon was quickly filling up after Netflix announced that it would be bringing such a service to the Xbox 360, the numbers just don't substantiate the claims that physical discs are doomed anytime soon. Sure, for the budding technophile, streaming is just the next great thing, but for the average joe / jane, the tried and true disc still holds a great deal of importance. A recent study by market research firm SmithGeiger found that out of over 2,000 surveyed, "HDTV owners familiar with Blu-ray favor the format over downloading and streaming by a margin of nearly 10-to-1, with about 70% of respondents citing the fact that there's a physical disc to keep as a key factor in their decision to buy Blu-ray." It also found that 96% of BD users were "familiar with downloading and streaming services, but that two-thirds believe watching a movie on Blu-ray is a better overall entertainment experience." Sure, BD has its flaws, but not having to re-rent an HD film after a remarkably short 24-hour window sure is nice, huh?
By the way, I just picked up Hellboy II on Blu-Ray, and I am loving this whole Digital Copy thing they're doing. I get the highest possible quality experience on my television, and then a crappy little digital version of the movie for my iPhone and computer. It's like digital downloads, but without all the suckage of paying $15 just for a crappy little download you have to back up to physical media yourself.
Imagine how lame iTunes would be if it were constrained by streaming!
C.
Honestly, I'd prefer streaming my digital content whenever I pleased as opposed to the current system where I can only download it once and then must back it up myself to avoid losing my purchases to hard drive failure. If Apple kept tabs on what you purchased and allowed you to redownload it if needbe, one of the issues with digital distribution would be solved.
I think the Digital Bits is a great site, but somewhat invested in the idea behind physical media.
The facts he cites are true, but you can interpret the facts in two ways.
Download is irrelevant, because the industry is ignoring it.
The industry is irrelevant because it is ignoring download.
Most films and television shows are already available in HD for free - via illegal downloads.
The consumer demand is there, but the studios are not providing content in ways people want to buy.
Apple and Netflix's offerings are massively compromised by what the industry allow them to do, so you can't evaluate how successful they are. Even Carl Lewis does no't run so great in manacles.
This entire thing happened before. With Music.
They tried to sell us SACD. "It's better quality" was the mantra.
But what happened instead was MP3, Napster, iPod and iTunes. It's all over bar the shouting.
Convenience will win over a marginal quality gain every time. Unless of course, you are a hardcore enthusiast. In which case SACD and BluRay are awesome.
C.
Of course you know more than Bill Hunt!
Did you just forget everything we've discussed? You keep thinking music and video are the same thing. They're not! This doesn't bode well for your credibility.
Quote:
Convenience will win over a marginal quality gain every time. Unless of course, you are a hardcore enthusiast. In which case SACD and BluRay are awesome.
We've already discussed the convenience issue haven't we? Portability doesn't come without solving the studio or bandwidth issues!
Also I've seen what's available online. BD beats it hands down! It's not just a " marginal quality " issue!
We've already discussed the convenience issue haven't we? Portability doesn't come without solving the studio or bandwidth issues!
Also I've seen what's available online. BD beats it hands down! It's not just a " marginal quality " issue!
There is no bandwidth issue. A good quality 720p HD movie can be downloaded in less than an hour. In the future this time period will reduce dramatically. Audio, video, games. They are all just zeros and ones.
As for the studio issue. That is their problem. It's their job to align themselves to the audience, not the other way around.
Blu Ray does offer a good quality image. Just as SACD offers great quality audio.
But the problem is that hardly anyone is geared up to make use of that quality.
The average TV viewing distance is 8-12 feet. On a 46" screen 1080p is indistinguishable from 720p at more than 6".
To collectors and people with projection TVs, the additional resolution matters.
To the mass audience that were attracted to DVD, the BluRay benefits are marginal.
You have to remember that for most people DVD supplanted VHS. The gains were substantial.
*Image quality
*Audio quality
*Random Access
*Durability
*Extras
*Subtitles
*Size
BluRay's *only* real advantage is image-quality. The mass audience are not dissatisfied with DVD's image quality.
There is no bandwidth issue. A good quality 720p HD movie can be downloaded in less than an hour. In the future this time period will reduce dramatically. Audio, video, games. They are all just zeros and ones.
As for the studio issue. That is their problem. It's their job to align themselves to the audience, not the other way around.
Blu Ray does offer a good quality image. Just as SACD offers great quality audio.
But the problem is that hardly anyone is geared up to make use of that quality.
The average TV viewing distance is 8-12 feet. On a 46" screen 1080p is indistinguishable from 720p at more than 6".
To collectors and people with projection TVs, the additional resolution matters.
To the mass audience that were attracted to DVD, the BluRay benefits are marginal.
You have to remember that for most people DVD supplanted VHS. The gains were substantial.
*Image quality
*Audio quality
*Random Access
*Durability
*Extras
*Subtitles
*Size
BluRay's *only* real advantage is image-quality. The mass audience are not dissatisfied with DVD's image quality.
C.
I see you're just restating your case again and ignoring what we've discussed before.
Quote:
BluRay's *only* real advantage is image-quality.
This is not a true statement for reasons that have already been discussed. Just saying over and over again won't make it true. Wishful thinking won't either. Downloading may be the wave of the future but you'll be a lot older by that time. To truly take over as the main way people watch and purchase movies will be at least 10 years and probably more.
Well.... if you regularly purchase/rent HDM contents on optical discs, you should know that only small portion of the HDM contents actually use full advantage of 1080p. There are more HD contents out there with only marginal improvements over the SD-DVD counterpart. Even with absolutely perfect 1080p video transfer contents of a digital master will have less "wow" effect on normal consumer hardware setup environment. Especially, if you're viewing them with less than 50 or even 60" screen at 8 to 10' away, you're only fooling yourself. Only very few enthusiast with an eagle eye may tell the difference between 720p vs. 1080p contents at 8 to 10' away using less than 50" screen. Most consumers would think sd-dvd upconvert at such viewing distance would look as good as most HD contents, because majority of HD contents on optical discs are not in the same quality as ratatouille or BD. Try playing SD version of ratatouille and make a comparison yourself. Sadly enough, only about 10% of HDM contents on optical discs truly deserves 1080p claim. I don't think most consumers are that blind and just believe that all HD contents are better than SD.
Sorry if I am repeating myself. But my arguments don't seem to be finding any counter arguments. Punditry not withstanding.
So let's leave this discussion here.
I'll shut up - but I though I would end my contribution with this quick bit of punditry of my own.
Sony's attempt to upgrade DVD with BluRay has failed. But not completely. BluRay will continue to slowly pick up sales, but it is being squeezed from two directions. DVD which continues to offer better value and pure-digital which will is free to grow and adapt far more rapidly.
Sony made a bad situation worse by linking BluRay technology to the PS3, which damaged both the release date and the price of its console. They tried to create a Trojan horse and instead they created an an Achilles heel.
As a result, Sony's bedrock brand; Playstation, has been damaged and has lost market share to Microsoft and Nintendo. The timing could not have been worse. Sony depended on massive profits from Playstation. The double failure of PSP and PS3 is remarkable. Despite massive support from Sony, it is unlikely that PS3 will ever go into profit.
Sony are bleeding from the cost of staging a format war at the wrong time with the wrong technology.
Sony have done this before. Long ago they were the undisputed world leader in portable audio. They lost that lead by adopting MiniDisc instead of going to MP3. Now Apple have what they had. This happened because the market squarely rejected Minidisc and preferred the convenience of "pure digital".
This is what happens if you tell an audience what it wants, rather than listen to what it needs.
Rewind 4 years and check out the heated discussions of MP3 versus Minidisc. They sound incredibly like this discussion above. You'll see the same arguments.
In four years time, the movie distribution technology will be split 3 ways. BluRay will be larger, But it will be squeezed between DVD and digital.
In four years time, episodic TV distribution technology will be split 3 ways. Cable will be smaller, and it will be squeezed between free-to-air and digital.
Hmm there is a something in that there venn diagram.
In four years we can come back to see who is right.
Downloading may be the wave of the future but you'll be a lot older by that time. To truly take over as the main way people watch and purchase movies will be at least 10 years and probably more.
Denial is in Egypt.
Jimmac, I understand that you're part of the older generation here at AI, but you do need to understand that most of the denial is coming from you.
I'm not a huge movie watcher, and I am careful to procure my movies in a legal way.
(this may have something to do with my religious beliefs...)
However, I personally know of many people whose home movie experience is powered almost entirely by the downloading experience. And not the MPAA-approved kind. I suspect that many of the younger folks here at AI know even more people who do this than I do.
Movie Downloading is already here, and will only get bigger from here on. Pretending that today's bandwidth isn't up to it or that people will wait for studio approvals is the kind of pathetic nonsense that got the music business into the death spiral it's in.
Just as we look at 8-tracks, cassettes and VHS tapes today as outdated, the coming generation will look at physical discs as irrelevant. Personal digital locker technology is here, and when the industry realizes that the disc era is really over, the merger of MobileMe with iTunes will be something to behold.
Jimmac, I understand that you're part of the older generation here at AI, but you do need to understand that most of the denial is coming from you.
I'm not a huge movie watcher, and I am careful to procure my movies in a legal way.
(this may have something to do with my religious beliefs...)
However, I personally know of many people whose home movie experience is powered almost entirely by the downloading experience. And not the MPAA-approved kind. I suspect that many of the younger folks here at AI know even more people who do this than I do.
Movie Downloading is already here, and will only get bigger from here on. Pretending that today's bandwidth isn't up to it or that people will wait for studio approvals is the kind of pathetic nonsense that got the music business into the death spiral it's in.
Just as we look at 8-tracks, cassettes and VHS tapes today as outdated, the coming generation will look at physical discs as irrelevant. Personal digital locker technology is here, and when the industry realizes that the disc era is really over, the merger of MobileMe with iTunes will be something to behold.
Frank I figured it was about time you chimed in. Well Bill Hunt of " The Digital Bits " knows alot more about this than any of us! Did you even read what I posted from his web site? If you look at this logically it's not a matter of old or new it's a matter of these issues ( the studios, bandwidth, portability etc. ) which aren't going away by themselves. Until they're solved downloading will be the realm of the renter and the pirate. Pure and simple.
Ps. And yes Frank if you look back through this thread you'll see we've already checked into the fact that people ( for some time now ) spend way more on purchasing video than they do renting.
Sorry if I am repeating myself. But my arguments don't seem to be finding any counter arguments. Punditry not withstanding.
So let's leave this discussion here.
I'll shut up - but I though I would end my contribution with this quick bit of punditry of my own.
Sony's attempt to upgrade DVD with BluRay has failed. But not completely. BluRay will continue to slowly pick up sales, but it is being squeezed from two directions. DVD which continues to offer better value and pure-digital which will is free to grow and adapt far more rapidly.
Sony made a bad situation worse by linking BluRay technology to the PS3, which damaged both the release date and the price of its console. They tried to create a Trojan horse and instead they created an an Achilles heel.
As a result, Sony's bedrock brand; Playstation, has been damaged and has lost market share to Microsoft and Nintendo. The timing could not have been worse. Sony depended on massive profits from Playstation. The double failure of PSP and PS3 is remarkable. Despite massive support from Sony, it is unlikely that PS3 will ever go into profit.
Sony are bleeding from the cost of staging a format war at the wrong time with the wrong technology.
Sony have done this before. Long ago they were the undisputed world leader in portable audio. They lost that lead by adopting MiniDisc instead of going to MP3. Now Apple have what they had. This happened because the market squarely rejected Minidisc and preferred the convenience of "pure digital".
This is what happens if you tell an audience what it wants, rather than listen to what it needs.
Rewind 4 years and check out the heated discussions of MP3 versus Minidisc. They sound incredibly like this discussion above. You'll see the same arguments.
In four years time, the movie distribution technology will be split 3 ways. BluRay will be larger, But it will be squeezed between DVD and digital.
In four years time, episodic TV distribution technology will be split 3 ways. Cable will be smaller, and it will be squeezed between free-to-air and digital.
Hmm there is a something in that there venn diagram.
In four years we can come back to see who is right.
Signing off..
C.
Quote:
But my arguments don't seem to be finding any counter arguments
Uh no. You just seem to be looking the other way when presented with the facts.
Quote:
This is what happens if you tell an audience what it wants, rather than listen to what it needs.
'
Most of them out there are kind of pragmatic. They're much more likely in this case to keep on doing what they're doing right now.
Quote:
In four years time, the movie distribution technology will be split 3 ways. BluRay will be larger, But it will be squeezed between DVD and digital.
In four years time, episodic TV distribution technology will be split 3 ways. Cable will be smaller, and it will be squeezed between free-to-air and digital.
Can you say ignoring the facts type pipe dream?
Quote:
In four years we can come back to see who is right.
In four years we can come back to see who is right.
Signing off..
C.
Ahh the 2012 BD thread in which bitemymac will STILL be saying HDM and resolutely complaining that (s)he won't be buying BD till the players reach the magical $50 price range... you KNOW joe six pack will get a mention cos $50 "is the tipping point at which he will buy"
I look forward to it, the New Star Trek movie should be out on BD by then..
the PS3 (which Bite and frank STILL won't buy) will be available for bugger all money and M$ will be pushing their new-ish Red Ring Of Death machine, the x-box 370.
thats IF they are still in business.. that is if Apple keeps them open as a division after their acquisition in 2011?? who knows.
the thing I want to know however is.. will this thread still be in future hardware? as in, will Apple have released a Mac with a BD capable drive in it?
Ahh the 2012 BD thread in which bitemymac will STILL be saying HDM and resolutely complaining that (s)he won't be buying BD till the players reach the magical $50 price range... you KNOW joe six pack will get a mention cos $50 "is the tipping point at which he will buy"
I look forward to it, the New Star Trek movie should be out on BD by then..
the PS3 (which Bite and frank STILL won't buy) will be available for bugger all money and M$ will be pushing their new-ish Red Ring Of Death machine, the x-box 370.
thats IF they are still in business.. that is if Apple keeps them open as a division after their acquisition in 2011?? who knows.
the thing I want to know however is.. will this thread still be in future hardware? as in, will Apple have released a Mac with a BD capable drive in it?
see you all there.
W.S.
Hahaha.... of course, you'll also be here and still playing with your PS3, because it's bigger than life for ya. Force is strong with PS3 kids.
Just a quick note on BD vs iTMS/Vudu HD quality...
The biggest difference in my experience is the quality of work that has gone into blu-ray products. Studios like Disney and Sony have consistently banged out extremely high quality discs, complete with extra features, extensive video remastering (see Godfather trilogy on BD), house-rumbling audio, and brilliant menu systems. Because of the ability to sell a higher-priced blu-ray disc (as opposed to just the digital copy), many take the job of delivering a top-notch experience very seriously, and customers reap the benefits, whether they rent or purchase. This leads to a viewing experience that can't be touched by any other medium.
Regarding data delivery, HD downloads will be managed to max out at a bitrate of around 4-10mbps, maybe lower than even DVD quality. Mathematically, were talking about a huge difference here in quality that you can actually see and hear. The video alone on blu-ray approaches 20-30 mbps, and the audio approaches 1.5 mbps. Thats alot of data coming through your screen and speakers, and this data translates directly to your senses. Increasing bitrates from 5-10mbps means (roughly) doubling the size and time it takes to download. Its not worth the trouble for such a small improvement. And who's to say that ISPs will even let us download multiple 3-5GB movies every month?
My point is that quality differences are not limited to pixels. BD is a product that is better than its downloaded counterpart in every possible way.
so.... anyone actually buying BD movie discs, lately?... I saw some newly released titles dropping in price to $19.99 from $25+ at amazon. I almost pulled the trigger, but I thought it may get much lower during the holidays. I have no must have titles on my list with my current TV setup, which forces me to be a very patient shopper.
Is the bad economy also influencing gaming console market or just the HDM market?
Either way, it's not helping with Apple adopting BD optical drives any time soon.
Comments
Convenience will win over a marginal quality gain every time. Unless of course, you are a hardcore enthusiast.
Ironic that you would write that. Only the hardcore enthusiasts know how to use Usenet, torrents or other P2P. Others find that kind of stuff too cryptic, difficult and "inconvenient." Much easier just to pop a disc into a player. Everybody understands how to do that.
Ironic that you would write that. Only the hardcore enthusiasts know how to use Usenet, torrents or other P2P. Others find that kind of stuff too cryptic, difficult and "inconvenient." Much easier just to pop a disc into a player. Everybody understands how to do that.
You are right, that some of the technology is still clunky.
But I have just been running Boxee on my AppleTV.
Boxee presents a menu of all my file-based content, alongside available web content for streaming. It even lets me see what friends recommend, highlights new stuff and so on.
The technology is still rough around the edges, but this *feels* like the future.
Driving to the mall to buy a disk full of files, feels like the past.
C.
While the "HD streaming rulez!one11!1!" bandwagon was quickly filling up after Netflix announced that it would be bringing such a service to the Xbox 360, the numbers just don't substantiate the claims that physical discs are doomed anytime soon. Sure, for the budding technophile, streaming is just the next great thing, but for the average joe / jane, the tried and true disc still holds a great deal of importance. A recent study by market research firm SmithGeiger found that out of over 2,000 surveyed, "HDTV owners familiar with Blu-ray favor the format over downloading and streaming by a margin of nearly 10-to-1, with about 70% of respondents citing the fact that there's a physical disc to keep as a key factor in their decision to buy Blu-ray." It also found that 96% of BD users were "familiar with downloading and streaming services, but that two-thirds believe watching a movie on Blu-ray is a better overall entertainment experience." Sure, BD has its flaws, but not having to re-rent an HD film after a remarkably short 24-hour window sure is nice, huh?
So there you go. Source.
By the way, I just picked up Hellboy II on Blu-Ray, and I am loving this whole Digital Copy thing they're doing. I get the highest possible quality experience on my television, and then a crappy little digital version of the movie for my iPhone and computer. It's like digital downloads, but without all the suckage of paying $15 just for a crappy little download you have to back up to physical media yourself.
So there you go.
Research finds that people greatly prefer Blu-ray to streaming
Source.
Streaming is not a good solution.
Imagine how lame iTunes would be if it were constrained by streaming!
C.
Streaming is not a good solution.
Imagine how lame iTunes would be if it were constrained by streaming!
C.
Honestly, I'd prefer streaming my digital content whenever I pleased as opposed to the current system where I can only download it once and then must back it up myself to avoid losing my purchases to hard drive failure. If Apple kept tabs on what you purchased and allowed you to redownload it if needbe, one of the issues with digital distribution would be solved.
I think the Digital Bits is a great site, but somewhat invested in the idea behind physical media.
The facts he cites are true, but you can interpret the facts in two ways.
Download is irrelevant, because the industry is ignoring it.
The industry is irrelevant because it is ignoring download.
Most films and television shows are already available in HD for free - via illegal downloads.
The consumer demand is there, but the studios are not providing content in ways people want to buy.
Apple and Netflix's offerings are massively compromised by what the industry allow them to do, so you can't evaluate how successful they are. Even Carl Lewis does no't run so great in manacles.
This entire thing happened before. With Music.
They tried to sell us SACD. "It's better quality" was the mantra.
But what happened instead was MP3, Napster, iPod and iTunes. It's all over bar the shouting.
Convenience will win over a marginal quality gain every time. Unless of course, you are a hardcore enthusiast. In which case SACD and BluRay are awesome.
C.
Of course you know more than Bill Hunt!
Did you just forget everything we've discussed? You keep thinking music and video are the same thing. They're not! This doesn't bode well for your credibility.
Convenience will win over a marginal quality gain every time. Unless of course, you are a hardcore enthusiast. In which case SACD and BluRay are awesome.
We've already discussed the convenience issue haven't we? Portability doesn't come without solving the studio or bandwidth issues!
Also I've seen what's available online. BD beats it hands down! It's not just a " marginal quality " issue!
We've already discussed the convenience issue haven't we? Portability doesn't come without solving the studio or bandwidth issues!
Also I've seen what's available online. BD beats it hands down! It's not just a " marginal quality " issue!
There is no bandwidth issue. A good quality 720p HD movie can be downloaded in less than an hour. In the future this time period will reduce dramatically. Audio, video, games. They are all just zeros and ones.
As for the studio issue. That is their problem. It's their job to align themselves to the audience, not the other way around.
Blu Ray does offer a good quality image. Just as SACD offers great quality audio.
But the problem is that hardly anyone is geared up to make use of that quality.
The average TV viewing distance is 8-12 feet. On a 46" screen 1080p is indistinguishable from 720p at more than 6".
To collectors and people with projection TVs, the additional resolution matters.
To the mass audience that were attracted to DVD, the BluRay benefits are marginal.
You have to remember that for most people DVD supplanted VHS. The gains were substantial.
*Image quality
*Audio quality
*Random Access
*Durability
*Extras
*Subtitles
*Size
BluRay's *only* real advantage is image-quality. The mass audience are not dissatisfied with DVD's image quality.
C.
Now if someone would explain why Apple is not providing a Blu-Ray solution...
There is no bandwidth issue. A good quality 720p HD movie can be downloaded in less than an hour. In the future this time period will reduce dramatically. Audio, video, games. They are all just zeros and ones.
As for the studio issue. That is their problem. It's their job to align themselves to the audience, not the other way around.
Blu Ray does offer a good quality image. Just as SACD offers great quality audio.
But the problem is that hardly anyone is geared up to make use of that quality.
The average TV viewing distance is 8-12 feet. On a 46" screen 1080p is indistinguishable from 720p at more than 6".
To collectors and people with projection TVs, the additional resolution matters.
To the mass audience that were attracted to DVD, the BluRay benefits are marginal.
You have to remember that for most people DVD supplanted VHS. The gains were substantial.
*Image quality
*Audio quality
*Random Access
*Durability
*Extras
*Subtitles
*Size
BluRay's *only* real advantage is image-quality. The mass audience are not dissatisfied with DVD's image quality.
C.
I see you're just restating your case again and ignoring what we've discussed before.
BluRay's *only* real advantage is image-quality.
This is not a true statement for reasons that have already been discussed. Just saying over and over again won't make it true. Wishful thinking won't either. Downloading may be the wave of the future but you'll be a lot older by that time. To truly take over as the main way people watch and purchase movies will be at least 10 years and probably more.
Denial is in Egypt.
Denial is in Egypt.
Sorry if I am repeating myself. But my arguments don't seem to be finding any counter arguments. Punditry not withstanding.
So let's leave this discussion here.
I'll shut up - but I though I would end my contribution with this quick bit of punditry of my own.
Sony's attempt to upgrade DVD with BluRay has failed. But not completely. BluRay will continue to slowly pick up sales, but it is being squeezed from two directions. DVD which continues to offer better value and pure-digital which will is free to grow and adapt far more rapidly.
Sony made a bad situation worse by linking BluRay technology to the PS3, which damaged both the release date and the price of its console. They tried to create a Trojan horse and instead they created an an Achilles heel.
As a result, Sony's bedrock brand; Playstation, has been damaged and has lost market share to Microsoft and Nintendo. The timing could not have been worse. Sony depended on massive profits from Playstation. The double failure of PSP and PS3 is remarkable. Despite massive support from Sony, it is unlikely that PS3 will ever go into profit.
http://www.blogcdn.com/www.engadgeth...tion_chart.jpg
Sony are bleeding from the cost of staging a format war at the wrong time with the wrong technology.
Sony have done this before. Long ago they were the undisputed world leader in portable audio. They lost that lead by adopting MiniDisc instead of going to MP3. Now Apple have what they had. This happened because the market squarely rejected Minidisc and preferred the convenience of "pure digital".
This is what happens if you tell an audience what it wants, rather than listen to what it needs.
Rewind 4 years and check out the heated discussions of MP3 versus Minidisc. They sound incredibly like this discussion above. You'll see the same arguments.
In four years time, the movie distribution technology will be split 3 ways. BluRay will be larger, But it will be squeezed between DVD and digital.
In four years time, episodic TV distribution technology will be split 3 ways. Cable will be smaller, and it will be squeezed between free-to-air and digital.
Hmm there is a something in that there venn diagram.
In four years we can come back to see who is right.
Signing off..
C.
Downloading may be the wave of the future but you'll be a lot older by that time. To truly take over as the main way people watch and purchase movies will be at least 10 years and probably more.
Denial is in Egypt.
Jimmac, I understand that you're part of the older generation here at AI, but you do need to understand that most of the denial is coming from you.
I'm not a huge movie watcher, and I am careful to procure my movies in a legal way.
(this may have something to do with my religious beliefs...
However, I personally know of many people whose home movie experience is powered almost entirely by the downloading experience. And not the MPAA-approved kind. I suspect that many of the younger folks here at AI know even more people who do this than I do.
Movie Downloading is already here, and will only get bigger from here on. Pretending that today's bandwidth isn't up to it or that people will wait for studio approvals is the kind of pathetic nonsense that got the music business into the death spiral it's in.
Just as we look at 8-tracks, cassettes and VHS tapes today as outdated, the coming generation will look at physical discs as irrelevant. Personal digital locker technology is here, and when the industry realizes that the disc era is really over, the merger of MobileMe with iTunes will be something to behold.
Jimmac, I understand that you're part of the older generation here at AI, but you do need to understand that most of the denial is coming from you.
I'm not a huge movie watcher, and I am careful to procure my movies in a legal way.
(this may have something to do with my religious beliefs...
However, I personally know of many people whose home movie experience is powered almost entirely by the downloading experience. And not the MPAA-approved kind. I suspect that many of the younger folks here at AI know even more people who do this than I do.
Movie Downloading is already here, and will only get bigger from here on. Pretending that today's bandwidth isn't up to it or that people will wait for studio approvals is the kind of pathetic nonsense that got the music business into the death spiral it's in.
Just as we look at 8-tracks, cassettes and VHS tapes today as outdated, the coming generation will look at physical discs as irrelevant. Personal digital locker technology is here, and when the industry realizes that the disc era is really over, the merger of MobileMe with iTunes will be something to behold.
Frank I figured it was about time you chimed in. Well Bill Hunt of " The Digital Bits " knows alot more about this than any of us! Did you even read what I posted from his web site? If you look at this logically it's not a matter of old or new it's a matter of these issues ( the studios, bandwidth, portability etc. ) which aren't going away by themselves. Until they're solved downloading will be the realm of the renter and the pirate. Pure and simple.
Ps. And yes Frank if you look back through this thread you'll see we've already checked into the fact that people ( for some time now ) spend way more on purchasing video than they do renting.
Sorry if I am repeating myself. But my arguments don't seem to be finding any counter arguments. Punditry not withstanding.
So let's leave this discussion here.
I'll shut up - but I though I would end my contribution with this quick bit of punditry of my own.
Sony's attempt to upgrade DVD with BluRay has failed. But not completely. BluRay will continue to slowly pick up sales, but it is being squeezed from two directions. DVD which continues to offer better value and pure-digital which will is free to grow and adapt far more rapidly.
Sony made a bad situation worse by linking BluRay technology to the PS3, which damaged both the release date and the price of its console. They tried to create a Trojan horse and instead they created an an Achilles heel.
As a result, Sony's bedrock brand; Playstation, has been damaged and has lost market share to Microsoft and Nintendo. The timing could not have been worse. Sony depended on massive profits from Playstation. The double failure of PSP and PS3 is remarkable. Despite massive support from Sony, it is unlikely that PS3 will ever go into profit.
http://www.blogcdn.com/www.engadgeth...tion_chart.jpg
Sony are bleeding from the cost of staging a format war at the wrong time with the wrong technology.
Sony have done this before. Long ago they were the undisputed world leader in portable audio. They lost that lead by adopting MiniDisc instead of going to MP3. Now Apple have what they had. This happened because the market squarely rejected Minidisc and preferred the convenience of "pure digital".
This is what happens if you tell an audience what it wants, rather than listen to what it needs.
Rewind 4 years and check out the heated discussions of MP3 versus Minidisc. They sound incredibly like this discussion above. You'll see the same arguments.
In four years time, the movie distribution technology will be split 3 ways. BluRay will be larger, But it will be squeezed between DVD and digital.
In four years time, episodic TV distribution technology will be split 3 ways. Cable will be smaller, and it will be squeezed between free-to-air and digital.
Hmm there is a something in that there venn diagram.
In four years we can come back to see who is right.
Signing off..
C.
But my arguments don't seem to be finding any counter arguments
Uh no. You just seem to be looking the other way when presented with the facts.
This is what happens if you tell an audience what it wants, rather than listen to what it needs.
'
Most of them out there are kind of pragmatic. They're much more likely in this case to keep on doing what they're doing right now.
In four years time, the movie distribution technology will be split 3 ways. BluRay will be larger, But it will be squeezed between DVD and digital.
In four years time, episodic TV distribution technology will be split 3 ways. Cable will be smaller, and it will be squeezed between free-to-air and digital.
Can you say ignoring the facts type pipe dream?
In four years we can come back to see who is right.
Yes we can if you'd like.
In four years we can come back to see who is right.
Signing off..
C.
Ahh the 2012 BD thread in which bitemymac will STILL be saying HDM and resolutely complaining that (s)he won't be buying BD till the players reach the magical $50 price range... you KNOW joe six pack will get a mention cos $50 "is the tipping point at which he will buy"
I look forward to it, the New Star Trek movie should be out on BD by then..
the PS3 (which Bite and frank STILL won't buy) will be available for bugger all money and M$ will be pushing their new-ish Red Ring Of Death machine, the x-box 370.
thats IF they are still in business.. that is if Apple keeps them open as a division after their acquisition in 2011?? who knows.
the thing I want to know however is.. will this thread still be in future hardware? as in, will Apple have released a Mac with a BD capable drive in it?
see you all there.
W.S.
1) The lower cost of players are hitting the point that sales of players are increasing.
2) There exists a huge number of widescreen TV's with HDMI inputs that can take advantage of the Blu-ray format.
3) The price of software is also dropping.
4) The imposition of download capacity limits by ISP's may kibosh the idea of online video downloads.
Ahh the 2012 BD thread in which bitemymac will STILL be saying HDM and resolutely complaining that (s)he won't be buying BD till the players reach the magical $50 price range... you KNOW joe six pack will get a mention cos $50 "is the tipping point at which he will buy"
I look forward to it, the New Star Trek movie should be out on BD by then..
the PS3 (which Bite and frank STILL won't buy) will be available for bugger all money and M$ will be pushing their new-ish Red Ring Of Death machine, the x-box 370.
thats IF they are still in business.. that is if Apple keeps them open as a division after their acquisition in 2011?? who knows.
the thing I want to know however is.. will this thread still be in future hardware? as in, will Apple have released a Mac with a BD capable drive in it?
see you all there.
W.S.
Hahaha.... of course, you'll also be here and still playing with your PS3, because it's bigger than life for ya. Force is strong with PS3 kids.
Hahaha.... of course, you'll also be here and still playing with your PS3, because it's bigger than life for ya. Force is strong with PS3 kids.
Well it takes two to Tango darling
The biggest difference in my experience is the quality of work that has gone into blu-ray products. Studios like Disney and Sony have consistently banged out extremely high quality discs, complete with extra features, extensive video remastering (see Godfather trilogy on BD), house-rumbling audio, and brilliant menu systems. Because of the ability to sell a higher-priced blu-ray disc (as opposed to just the digital copy), many take the job of delivering a top-notch experience very seriously, and customers reap the benefits, whether they rent or purchase. This leads to a viewing experience that can't be touched by any other medium.
Regarding data delivery, HD downloads will be managed to max out at a bitrate of around 4-10mbps, maybe lower than even DVD quality. Mathematically, were talking about a huge difference here in quality that you can actually see and hear. The video alone on blu-ray approaches 20-30 mbps, and the audio approaches 1.5 mbps. Thats alot of data coming through your screen and speakers, and this data translates directly to your senses. Increasing bitrates from 5-10mbps means (roughly) doubling the size and time it takes to download. Its not worth the trouble for such a small improvement. And who's to say that ISPs will even let us download multiple 3-5GB movies every month?
My point is that quality differences are not limited to pixels. BD is a product that is better than its downloaded counterpart in every possible way.
Is the bad economy also influencing gaming console market or just the HDM market?
Either way, it's not helping with Apple adopting BD optical drives any time soon.