Do you SERIOUSLY believe that M$ has "sold" 15 million units? shipped maybe, but how many of those are going to replace broken units?
Honestly, no not really. But the person I quoted was talking about 8 million PS3s, so I took the Xbox and Wii figures from the same site and posted them. So if you believe the PS3 figures, you have to believe the Xbox figures. Can't pick and choose...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Walter Slocombe
at an apparent failure rate of one third, well one third of 15 million is 5 million, which would equate to m$ only having shipped 10 million units that are actually functional.
Documentation? I know they have had a lot of issues, but 1/3? And the ones that do fail, don't fail immediately (they aren't shipping non-functional units). I have a group of 10 friends, and there was only 1 failure in the bunch. Maybe we all got lucky, or maybe the RROD rate is closer to 1/5 or 1/10.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Walter Slocombe
its well documented that m$ post the shipped units figures and then post the sold units per month to get double coverage, and one does not equal the other.
News flash, every company does this including your beloved Sony.
Both are seemingly identical until you look at Disk Space available and durability. Blu Ray kills in both, and disk space is an obvious benefit for the future as is durability.
They have been going back and forth on which is better and to me there is no clear winner yet. As far as disc space, Of course, "the HD-DVD camp has approved a new spec for a 51 GB disc or TL 51 disc which has more storage capacity than Blu-Ray?s BD 50 disc."
What seems to be more important is not the platform but rather,
" What is apparent to me is that the skill of the compressionist doing the encode is more important than the codec used, the data transmission rate of the available disc space."
So why not stamp the both formats one on each side and avoid this wasted war which has prevented most from experiencing true HD?
So why not stamp the both formats one on each side and avoid this wasted war which has prevented most from experiencing true HD?
It's not cost effective. This is just a guess based on replication quotes I've gotten, but I'd say that would increase the cost of production by at least %40.
As a consumer, I really don't like buying HDDVDs that have a DVD glued to the back side. I almost didn't buy Harry Potter 5 for that reason. If I wasn't using Christmas money on impulse I probably would've passed. With Blu-ray glued to the back I'd probably be less annoyed since I would get some format-war future-proofing, but I imagine the cost would be high enough that I'd still pass.
So the receiver doesn't need to have Dolby TrueHD if the Player is decoding it? What does it output it as then? PCM? So to clarify, these receivers that are 7.1 with HDMI video switching (but not 1.3 for Dolby True HD) can still play the True HD audio tracks from the players? I've been holding out for a $1200 receiver for nothing?
Anyone know of a sleeker receiver out there? I don't want one with every video and audio input ever conceived, just HDMI, maybe component, less of the other crap.
Short answer is YES. As long as it's being decoded somewhere. However, not all Blu-Ray HDM players come with Hidef audio decoder, but all standalone HD-DVD players do. As long as Blu-ray movies keep offering multi-channel PCM, there is no need to worry and no reason to upgrade the AVR for lossless audio track if it already has HDMI switching or analog 5.1.
As for the 7.1 track, I'm not sure if there is a HDM/SDM title out there with 7.1 orginal track. If it does exist, it must be really rare. I'm aware of titles with 6.1 track and they are very rare as well. Most of the 7.1 AVR use phantom 7.1 from 5.1 or 6.1 source and this is solely dependent on the AVR's processing capability.
They have been going back and forth on which is better and to me there is no clear winner yet. As far as disc space, Of course, "the HD-DVD camp has approved a new spec for a 51 GB disc or TL 51 disc which has more storage capacity than Blu-Ray?s BD 50 disc."
...........................
51GB? Pfft.. BR had a 200GB disk over a year ago before there was any players available. Who knows what tech demo's they have by now. Why bother fighting. The battle has already been won by Blu Ray. It's inevitable. 200GB Blu Ray disks
Documentation? I know they have had a lot of issues, but 1/3? And the ones that do fail, don't fail immediately (they aren't shipping non-functional units). I have a group of 10 friends, and there was only 1 failure in the bunch. Maybe we all got lucky, or maybe the RROD rate is closer to 1/5 or 1/10.
My cousin had 4 defective 360's in a row and then bought a PS3. Talk about a happy camper. His raving, and the fact that Blu Ray won, is why I bought one.
Just noticed that Blu Ray capacity is already seeing benefits on very popular titles.
Harry Potter, and the Order of the Phoenix.
Quote:
Originally Posted by at Amazon By Talkstr8t (Los Altos, CA USA)
Blu-ray version has extra content, December 5, 2007
For those of you with both high-def formats, you should be aware that the Blu-ray version not only has over twice as much bonus content, but it's in full 1080p video. The HD DVD version bonus content is only in 480p (DVD quality). The Blu-ray version also has over a dozen foreign language tracks, while the HD DVD version only has three.
I'll officially be format neutral when the Samsung BD-UP5000 I ordered yesterday arrives... in early February if the February 2 shipping date holds.
I'm hoping if and when one format beats out the other, someone will figure out a way to transfer content (either an officially-sanctioned conversion, or a DRM-breaking hack will do fine by me) from one format to the other.
Of course, I'm hoping that further into the future we'll be able to rip hi-def discs of any format and store their content on multi-terabyte media servers. I suspect that will happen before the internet has the bandwidth for high-quality on-demand HD movies.
51GB? Pfft.. BR had a 200GB disk over a year ago before there was any players available. Who knows what tech demo's they have by now. Why bother fighting. The battle has already been won by Blu Ray. It's inevitable. 200GB Blu Ray disks
And this helps me how? We now have enough empirical evidence (HD DVD "The Prestige" vs Blu-ray "The Prestige" , Natures Journey etc) which shows no benefit to the additional 20GB of space. So the whol "who's dyck is bigger" size battle is superfluous at best.
Yeah the battle has already been won just like Blu-ray said back at CES 2007
Just noticed that Blu Ray capacity is already seeing benefits on very popular titles.
Harry Potter, and the Order of the Phoenix.
That's a big deal IMO.
Um why do I care that the extras are in HD? I think people typically view the extras once or twice and that's it. As a wannabe content creator I believe your "Feature Presentation" should shine about the extras. Think about this from a Directors standpoint. You're not going to spend the time (and money) color grading and processing the extra footage unless it was cut after post production thus your HD extras will likely look "unfinished" in many cases.
The soundtracks on a discs don't really matter. 12 languages? come on man I just need a good English track. I don't need Swahili.
You do know that both formats have provisions to download and syncronize content i.e extras, soundtracks, subtitles.
I'm amazed that 2 years later we have the usual suspects that still don't seem to "get it"
Neither format is significantly better than the other format that makes choosing a victor easy.
Frankly if you're not willing to own both formats then your motives are suspect. You certainly don't love movies. I'll do what it takes to have full access. If Costco has a Blu-ray player for $250 next year it's coming home with me.
I love movies..not egoistic chest beating. When the price is right I make the move. I'm about having an inclusive life versus exclusive. Savvy.
I'm pretty sure, hmurch, you were the one orgasming over the benefits of superior extras for 300 on hd-DVD. And, why wouldn't you want your extras at the PROPER resolution? Give. E a break, this IS a benefit, no matter which way you slice it. No chest beating, just figures and wanting of this war to be over.
And this helps me how? We now have enough empirical evidence (HD DVD "The Prestige" vs Blu-ray "The Prestige" , Natures Journey etc) which shows no benefit to the additional 20GB of space. So the whol "who's dyck is bigger" size battle is superfluous at best.
Yeah the battle has already been won just like Blu-ray said back at CES 2007
Try fitting a full season of a TV series on an HD-DVD in the future. Not gonna happen.
Porn industry is already doing it. Only Digital Playground is having to put multiple package disks on two sides of an HD-DVD and not liking it. They just got sony to back off their pr0n ban, and are letting them use BR. One side of one Disk and the entire island fever 4 is going to fit on a single side rather than the HD-DVD double sided flipping situation.
Quote:
With all of its capacity, the Blu-ray disc will hold the entire Pirates film and all of the extras in full 1080p. In the HD DVD version, the outtakes and other goodies are rendered in standard def.
There is good news on the HD DVD front, however. Digital Playground claims to be the first shop to release a dual-layer adult video. The company’s Island Fever 4 originally shipped in a multidisc set. “To fit it all in there, you needed three discs,” Joone laments. “We’re the first company to do dual layer, so it all fits on one disc. It makes for a better user experience because now they don’t have to change the disc in the middle of the video.”
I'm pretty sure, hmurch, you were the one orgasming over the benefits of superior extras for 300 on hd-DVD. And, why wouldn't you want your extras at the PROPER resolution? Give. E a break, this IS a benefit, no matter which way you slice it. No chest beating, just figures and wanting of this war to be over.
Actually this works in my favor. I thought the extras on 300 would propel the HD DVD version over the BD version but I found out just how little the consensus cares about extras. If they don't care about a content advantage then they're not going to give a rip about HD extras particularly if they aren't processed to look like the film
If you think you can end the war by being sacrificing your access to content more power to you. If U put a $99 BD player in front of me I'm buying it nuff said. Anyone so stuck on principal that they would forgo such a deal is not someone I'd entertain getting advice from.
So a 51GB HD DVD disc is somehow going to hold less than 50GB. Can you tell me how this is possible?
Has anyone heard anything definitive about whether or not existing HD DVD players will be able (perhaps automatically, perhaps via software update) to handle the 51 GB discs? I've just tried to Google the subject, but haven't come up with a clear answer.
I hope at least an expensive player that won't even ship until February will be ready for 51GB HD DVD when it arrives.
1) I think Blu-ray will have continued to dominate through Q4 of 2007 with a 72:28 overall ratio.
2) Given the shutout in sales that was handed to HD DVD for all of 2007, Warner will announce Blu-ray exclusivity going forward.
3) Apple will announce Blu-ray integrated hardware at Macworld 2008.
4) Universal, the staunch HD DVD backer will announce neutrality in March of 2008.
5) Paramount, left in the dark, cold, abyss that will have been the HD DVD format due to their poor decision in taking the Microsoft & Toshiba & Co. bribe, will go Blu-ray as well, sooner if they have stipulations in the cotract that will allow them to opt out of their 18 month agreement or much later until the 18 month agreement expires. They walked away with a $150 million dollar bribe in 2007, but at what cost did they give up Blu-ray royalties for the future? No one knows but them, but regardless, they will go Blu.
6) Toshiba, after June, will also capitulate and join the Blu-ray fray given the huge losses Toshiba has encountered due to selling their hardware at a loss.
7) By Q4 2008, we have a unified format in Blu-ray, and everyone wins, with the best technological solution for high-def and one supported by the majority of the industry.
8) Microsoft continues to attempt interjecting their codecs and HDi interactivity into the high-def landscape, but unsuccessfully as H.264/AVC and BD-J are the de-facto standard via the unified Blu-ray format.
9) Apple releases a new AppleTV complete with DVR functionality and BD-R drive.
Sorry, we're a few pages into this thread already, but this is spoken like a true reality distortion field. You sure you're not really Steve in disguise?
Comments
Do you SERIOUSLY believe that M$ has "sold" 15 million units? shipped maybe, but how many of those are going to replace broken units?
Honestly, no not really. But the person I quoted was talking about 8 million PS3s, so I took the Xbox and Wii figures from the same site and posted them. So if you believe the PS3 figures, you have to believe the Xbox figures. Can't pick and choose...
at an apparent failure rate of one third, well one third of 15 million is 5 million, which would equate to m$ only having shipped 10 million units that are actually functional.
Documentation? I know they have had a lot of issues, but 1/3? And the ones that do fail, don't fail immediately (they aren't shipping non-functional units). I have a group of 10 friends, and there was only 1 failure in the bunch. Maybe we all got lucky, or maybe the RROD rate is closer to 1/5 or 1/10.
its well documented that m$ post the shipped units figures and then post the sold units per month to get double coverage, and one does not equal the other.
News flash, every company does this including your beloved Sony.
Both are seemingly identical until you look at Disk Space available and durability. Blu Ray kills in both, and disk space is an obvious benefit for the future as is durability.
They have been going back and forth on which is better and to me there is no clear winner yet. As far as disc space, Of course, "the HD-DVD camp has approved a new spec for a 51 GB disc or TL 51 disc which has more storage capacity than Blu-Ray?s BD 50 disc."
What seems to be more important is not the platform but rather,
" What is apparent to me is that the skill of the compressionist doing the encode is more important than the codec used, the data transmission rate of the available disc space."
So why not stamp the both formats one on each side and avoid this wasted war which has prevented most from experiencing true HD?
So why not stamp the both formats one on each side and avoid this wasted war which has prevented most from experiencing true HD?
It's not cost effective. This is just a guess based on replication quotes I've gotten, but I'd say that would increase the cost of production by at least %40.
As a consumer, I really don't like buying HDDVDs that have a DVD glued to the back side. I almost didn't buy Harry Potter 5 for that reason. If I wasn't using Christmas money on impulse I probably would've passed. With Blu-ray glued to the back I'd probably be less annoyed since I would get some format-war future-proofing, but I imagine the cost would be high enough that I'd still pass.
So the receiver doesn't need to have Dolby TrueHD if the Player is decoding it? What does it output it as then? PCM? So to clarify, these receivers that are 7.1 with HDMI video switching (but not 1.3 for Dolby True HD) can still play the True HD audio tracks from the players? I've been holding out for a $1200 receiver for nothing?
Anyone know of a sleeker receiver out there? I don't want one with every video and audio input ever conceived, just HDMI, maybe component, less of the other crap.
Short answer is YES. As long as it's being decoded somewhere. However, not all Blu-Ray HDM players come with Hidef audio decoder, but all standalone HD-DVD players do. As long as Blu-ray movies keep offering multi-channel PCM, there is no need to worry and no reason to upgrade the AVR for lossless audio track if it already has HDMI switching or analog 5.1.
As for the 7.1 track, I'm not sure if there is a HDM/SDM title out there with 7.1 orginal track. If it does exist, it must be really rare. I'm aware of titles with 6.1 track and they are very rare as well. Most of the 7.1 AVR use phantom 7.1 from 5.1 or 6.1 source and this is solely dependent on the AVR's processing capability.
They have been going back and forth on which is better and to me there is no clear winner yet. As far as disc space, Of course, "the HD-DVD camp has approved a new spec for a 51 GB disc or TL 51 disc which has more storage capacity than Blu-Ray?s BD 50 disc."
...........................
51GB? Pfft.. BR had a 200GB disk over a year ago before there was any players available. Who knows what tech demo's they have by now. Why bother fighting. The battle has already been won by Blu Ray. It's inevitable. 200GB Blu Ray disks
Documentation? I know they have had a lot of issues, but 1/3? And the ones that do fail, don't fail immediately (they aren't shipping non-functional units). I have a group of 10 friends, and there was only 1 failure in the bunch. Maybe we all got lucky, or maybe the RROD rate is closer to 1/5 or 1/10.
http://www.dailytech.com/Article.aspx?newsid=7892
Nearly one in every three Xbox 360 consoles fail, according to retailer reports
It's a good read.
http://www.dailytech.com/Article.aspx?newsid=7892
It's a good read.
My cousin had 4 defective 360's in a row and then bought a PS3. Talk about a happy camper. His raving, and the fact that Blu Ray won, is why I bought one.
Harry Potter, and the Order of the Phoenix.
Blu-ray version has extra content, December 5, 2007
For those of you with both high-def formats, you should be aware that the Blu-ray version not only has over twice as much bonus content, but it's in full 1080p video. The HD DVD version bonus content is only in 480p (DVD quality). The Blu-ray version also has over a dozen foreign language tracks, while the HD DVD version only has three.
That's a big deal IMO.
I'm hoping if and when one format beats out the other, someone will figure out a way to transfer content (either an officially-sanctioned conversion, or a DRM-breaking hack will do fine by me) from one format to the other.
Of course, I'm hoping that further into the future we'll be able to rip hi-def discs of any format and store their content on multi-terabyte media servers. I suspect that will happen before the internet has the bandwidth for high-quality on-demand HD movies.
51GB? Pfft.. BR had a 200GB disk over a year ago before there was any players available. Who knows what tech demo's they have by now. Why bother fighting. The battle has already been won by Blu Ray. It's inevitable. 200GB Blu Ray disks
And this helps me how? We now have enough empirical evidence (HD DVD "The Prestige" vs Blu-ray "The Prestige" , Natures Journey etc) which shows no benefit to the additional 20GB of space. So the whol "who's dyck is bigger" size battle is superfluous at best.
Yeah the battle has already been won just like Blu-ray said back at CES 2007
Just noticed that Blu Ray capacity is already seeing benefits on very popular titles.
Harry Potter, and the Order of the Phoenix.
That's a big deal IMO.
Um why do I care that the extras are in HD? I think people typically view the extras once or twice and that's it. As a wannabe content creator I believe your "Feature Presentation" should shine about the extras. Think about this from a Directors standpoint. You're not going to spend the time (and money) color grading and processing the extra footage unless it was cut after post production thus your HD extras will likely look "unfinished" in many cases.
The soundtracks on a discs don't really matter. 12 languages? come on man I just need a good English track. I don't need Swahili.
You do know that both formats have provisions to download and syncronize content i.e extras, soundtracks, subtitles.
I'm amazed that 2 years later we have the usual suspects that still don't seem to "get it"
Neither format is significantly better than the other format that makes choosing a victor easy.
Frankly if you're not willing to own both formats then your motives are suspect. You certainly don't love movies. I'll do what it takes to have full access. If Costco has a Blu-ray player for $250 next year it's coming home with me.
I love movies..not egoistic chest beating. When the price is right I make the move. I'm about having an inclusive life versus exclusive. Savvy.
And this helps me how? We now have enough empirical evidence (HD DVD "The Prestige" vs Blu-ray "The Prestige" , Natures Journey etc) which shows no benefit to the additional 20GB of space. So the whol "who's dyck is bigger" size battle is superfluous at best.
Yeah the battle has already been won just like Blu-ray said back at CES 2007
Try fitting a full season of a TV series on an HD-DVD in the future. Not gonna happen.
Porn industry is already doing it. Only Digital Playground is having to put multiple package disks on two sides of an HD-DVD and not liking it. They just got sony to back off their pr0n ban, and are letting them use BR. One side of one Disk and the entire island fever 4 is going to fit on a single side rather than the HD-DVD double sided flipping situation.
With all of its capacity, the Blu-ray disc will hold the entire Pirates film and all of the extras in full 1080p. In the HD DVD version, the outtakes and other goodies are rendered in standard def.
There is good news on the HD DVD front, however. Digital Playground claims to be the first shop to release a dual-layer adult video. The company’s Island Fever 4 originally shipped in a multidisc set. “To fit it all in there, you needed three discs,” Joone laments. “We’re the first company to do dual layer, so it all fits on one disc. It makes for a better user experience because now they don’t have to change the disc in the middle of the video.”
I hate that.
I'm pretty sure, hmurch, you were the one orgasming over the benefits of superior extras for 300 on hd-DVD. And, why wouldn't you want your extras at the PROPER resolution? Give. E a break, this IS a benefit, no matter which way you slice it. No chest beating, just figures and wanting of this war to be over.
Actually this works in my favor. I thought the extras on 300 would propel the HD DVD version over the BD version but I found out just how little the consensus cares about extras. If they don't care about a content advantage then they're not going to give a rip about HD extras particularly if they aren't processed to look like the film
If you think you can end the war by being sacrificing your access to content more power to you. If U put a $99 BD player in front of me I'm buying it nuff said. Anyone so stuck on principal that they would forgo such a deal is not someone I'd entertain getting advice from.
Try fitting a full season of a TV series on an HD-DVD in the future. Not gonna happen.
So a 51GB HD DVD disc is somehow going to hold less than 50GB. Can you tell me how this is possible?
Do I not have Heroes, BSG, Smallville and Star Trek on HD DVD already? I've heard no complaints from content providers.
Let me know when 200GB discs are ratified for Blu-ray chief.
So a 51GB HD DVD disc is somehow going to hold less than 50GB. Can you tell me how this is possible?
Do I not have Heroes, BSG, Smallville and Star Trek on HD DVD already? I've heard no complaints from content providers.
Let me know when 200GB discs are ratified for Blu-ray chief.
Did they fit any of those seasons on a single disk?
There you go.
So a 51GB HD DVD disc is somehow going to hold less than 50GB. Can you tell me how this is possible?
Has anyone heard anything definitive about whether or not existing HD DVD players will be able (perhaps automatically, perhaps via software update) to handle the 51 GB discs? I've just tried to Google the subject, but haven't come up with a clear answer.
I hope at least an expensive player that won't even ship until February will be ready for 51GB HD DVD when it arrives.
I'll begin the speculation for 2008 by stating...
1) I think Blu-ray will have continued to dominate through Q4 of 2007 with a 72:28 overall ratio.
2) Given the shutout in sales that was handed to HD DVD for all of 2007, Warner will announce Blu-ray exclusivity going forward.
3) Apple will announce Blu-ray integrated hardware at Macworld 2008.
4) Universal, the staunch HD DVD backer will announce neutrality in March of 2008.
5) Paramount, left in the dark, cold, abyss that will have been the HD DVD format due to their poor decision in taking the Microsoft & Toshiba & Co. bribe, will go Blu-ray as well, sooner if they have stipulations in the cotract that will allow them to opt out of their 18 month agreement or much later until the 18 month agreement expires. They walked away with a $150 million dollar bribe in 2007, but at what cost did they give up Blu-ray royalties for the future? No one knows but them, but regardless, they will go Blu.
6) Toshiba, after June, will also capitulate and join the Blu-ray fray given the huge losses Toshiba has encountered due to selling their hardware at a loss.
7) By Q4 2008, we have a unified format in Blu-ray, and everyone wins, with the best technological solution for high-def and one supported by the majority of the industry.
8) Microsoft continues to attempt interjecting their codecs and HDi interactivity into the high-def landscape, but unsuccessfully as H.264/AVC and BD-J are the de-facto standard via the unified Blu-ray format.
9) Apple releases a new AppleTV complete with DVR functionality and BD-R drive.
Sorry, we're a few pages into this thread already, but this is spoken like a true reality distortion field. You sure you're not really Steve in disguise?
I agree wholeheartedly by the way...