...These breakthroughs, Intel says, clear the path for the chipmaker to design products that are 25 percent smaller than previous versions and, thus, more cost-effective, as well as the ability next year to pursue new ultra mobile and consumer electronics "system on chip" opportunities.
So it's the next year waiting game again? Perhaps this is what Apple is awaiting in order to really bring to life a compact portable. Good news.
if my memory is correct, Core Duo Yonah and at least one of the model of Xeon and Core 2 Extreme 2.60 (mobile) given exclusive access to apple first than any other vendor ...
i agree it will take until Jan MWSF, if mac mini, mac & mac pro will be redesigned and upgraded ...
What do you think the chances are that Apple will use the new 45nm chips in Mac Mini and iMac's? And would Apple do it at the same time as in the Mac Pro or wait until the dust (MacPro) clears?
I wonder if the new chips (using less power) mean that the Nano is in the near future.
What do you think the chances are that Apple will use the new 45nm chips in Mac Mini and iMac's? And would Apple do it at the same time as in the Mac Pro or wait until the dust (MacPro) clears?
I wonder if the new chips (using less power) mean that the Nano is in the near future.
45nm desktop parts in large quantities not available until middle of 2008 though there is one QX9650 extreme chip available, i am saying more on the products refersh as whole Mac Mini, Mac, Mac Pro
i meant Mac (not iMac) aka the gMac, xMac, Mac Tower ...
if my memory is correct, Core Duo Yonah and at least one of the model of Xeon and Core 2 Extreme 2.60 (mobile) given exclusive access to apple first than any other vendor ...
i agree it will take until Jan MWSF, if mac mini, mac & mac pro will be redesigned and upgraded ...
The Yonah was the chip I was talking about. That was the first chip Apple needed, to show that they could come through.
The only other chip that Apple had any real advance of, was the 3GHz Xenon I also mentioned.
All other times, either Apple announced new upgrades at the same time, or afterwards, sometimes by months.
There have been rumors that Apple was paying Intel extra so that they could hoard the new 3.2GHz Xenons, but so far, there is no evidence of that.
I would rather see a new machine with the new chips a couple of months after, than the old machine with the new chips now.
That's not so far away. What's the rush? Are you going to put your money down the minute it's announced? If Apple just announces 45nm machines, it won't be a big deal.
What I'd like to see, and I'd rather wait until Macworld, if necessary, is an announcement of Express 2, and other new technologies that are just now coming on line, but that no one else has.
I don't want the same old generation of machine we've had for years, with a simple cpu upgrade. If that's what happens, we'll likely have to wait even longer for something new, possibly not until Nehalen, late next year.
SSE4 would give current purchasers a bit of extra life so even just a Penryn bump is worthwhile. No way Apple is waiting for Nehalem.
40% improvement in codecs that use SSE4 and 25%=75% VM improvements is nice too.
Why wouldn't Apple do Seaburg and PCI 2.0? In any case I think there are already 2.0 motherboards out there from Tyan and ASUS with Seaburg.
The only thing I see Apple holding out for is chip volume.
SSE4 would give current purchasers a bit of extra life so even just a Penryn bump is worthwhile. No way Apple is waiting for Nehalem.
40% improvement in codecs that use SSE4 and 25%=75% VM improvements is nice too.
Why wouldn't Apple do Seaburg and PCI 2.0? In any case I think there are already 2.0 motherboards out there from Tyan and ASUS with Seaburg.
The only thing I see Apple holding out for is chip volume.
Chip Volumes are there, HP/Dell etc have announced machines with them, and if you call up and ask for 400 servers with quad processors, you're not getting a no you can't have that.
At the moment the Mac Pro at the bottom end is very poor value compared to the same price Imac, (i.e 2.8Ghz and a "free" 24 inch monitor.
yes it's glossy, but that's the only down side..
I expect an anncouncement soon from Apple on the new Mac pro's at least a speed bump/price adjustment if Penryn is not coming before January.
mel, many PC manufacturers ANNOUNCED the chips before Apple but they actually shipped at the same time. In fact the PC shipments were token while Apple had reasonable supplies. I would expect the same again.
SSE4 would give current purchasers a bit of extra life so even just a Penryn bump is worthwhile. No way Apple is waiting for Nehalem.
40% improvement in codecs that use SSE4 and 25%=75% VM improvements is nice too.
Why wouldn't Apple do Seaburg and PCI 2.0? In any case I think there are already 2.0 motherboards out there from Tyan and ASUS with Seaburg.
The only thing I see Apple holding out for is chip volume.
I'm not saying anywhere that Apple isn't going to go to Penyrn. Of course they will.
What I did say is that I'd rather see an upgraded machine design come out in January WITH Penyrn, than a simple CPU upgrade now, which would make it more difficult for Apple to replace it in the next two or three months with a new design. I'd like to see Express 2. But you know how Apple is with Mobos. They are slow to change. Meaning that a new design might have to wait for, at the earliest, the ADC, or possibly, Nehalen, if they simply upgrade with a new chip right now.
I would also think that after last years criticism of Apple's Macworld introduction of the iPhone to the exclusion of almost everything else, they may want to provide more computer introductions this year.
The preliminary tests of these new processors on the tech sites have proven to be disappointing. While some functions are indeed noticeably faster, many others are only by a few percent. SSE4 advantages will, in many cases, have to wait for software to be coded for the new functionality. That will take months for much software.
mel, many PC manufacturers ANNOUNCED the chips before Apple but they actually shipped at the same time. In fact the PC shipments were token while Apple had reasonable supplies. I would expect the same again.
That only happened a couple of times. And Apple themselves often announced, only to not deliver some models (usually the higher end ones) weeks, or even a month, or so, later.
I'm thinking Wednesday November 14 due to Monday being Veterans' Day a national holiday. If it isn't Wednesday then I am clueless when it will be before January 15. Early December? I'm clueless anyway. But I like to post my guess because it makes me feel like I am accomplishing something.
I'll be buying the top tier with a 16GB kit from a third party - probably Omni Tech via Ramseeker.com for about $999 (they say).
I'm thinking Wednesday November 14 due to Monday being Veterans' Day a national holiday. If it isn't Wednesday then I am clueless when it will be before January 15. Early December? I'm clueless anyway. But I like to post my guess because it makes me feel like I am accomplishing something.
I'll be buying the top tier with a 16GB kit from a third party - probably Omni Tech via Ramseeker.com for about $999 (they say).
If you haven't noticed, we're all clueless. We just pretend we aren't.
AMD FireStream? 9170: Industry's First GPU with Double-Precision Floating Point
AMD FireStream 9170 Specifications
Features
* Powered by next-generation ATI GPU from AMD
* Parallel processing architecture with 320 stream cores
* Up to 500 GFLOPs single precision performance
* 2GB GDDR3 on-board memory
* Double Precision Floating Point
* PCIe 2.0 x16 interface
* < 150W power consumption
* Memory export
* BIOS settings optimized for stream processing
* API and OS Support
* Windows XP, XP64
* Linux 32 and Linux 64
System Requirements
* PCI Express® based server or workstation with available x16 lane graphics slot
* 500W or greater power supply
* 512MB of system memory
Optimized for Computation
* Double-precision floating point for scientific and engineering codes
* 2GB on-board memory
* 320 stream cores drive up to 500 GFLOPS single-precision performance
* Asynchronous DMA, allowing data transfers without interrupting streams processor or CPU
Accelerating data-parallel algorithms in a variety of applications
* Seismic processing
* Financial analysis
* Engineering analysis
* Rendering
* Computational chemistry
* Genetic research
* Physics
* Video editing
* Security
AMD Warranty and Support
* Enterprise-level support
* Three year limited product repair/replacement warranty
* Toll-free phone and email access to technical support team
AMD FireStream stream processors deliver the tremendous parallel processing power of the GPU to compute-intensive applications for scientists, engineers and consumers. Using this leading-edge technology, developers can dramatically increase the performance of their critical algorithms, allowing users to get faster results or work on larger problems.
AMD leverages its expertise in CPUs, GPUs and software to deliver stream processing hardware solutions along with a comprehensive software development stack. Fortune 1000 companies, leading software developers, and academic institutions are demonstrating today that stream computing is the key to tremendous performance in a variety of applications.
The AMD FireStream 9170 provides the industry's first double-precision floating point capability on a GPU. With 2GB GDDR3 memory on board and single-precision performance of up to 500 GFLOPS, it is ideal for the most demanding compute-intensive, data-parallel tasks.
Using ground-breaking 55nm process technology, even this large-memory board consumes less than 150W, making it easy to deploy in a variety of server and workstation packages.
AMD FireStream SDK: Open systems approach drives adoption
The AMD FireStream SDK delivers all the tools developers need to create and optimize applications on stream processors. Developers can begin with Brook+, an AMD-enhanced and supported implementation of Brook, the popular open-source C-level language and compiler.
What I did say is that I'd rather see an upgraded machine design come out in January WITH Penyrn, than a simple CPU upgrade now, which would make it more difficult for Apple to replace it in the next two or three months with a new design. I'd like to see Express 2. But you know how Apple is with Mobos. They are slow to change. Meaning that a new design might have to wait for, at the earliest, the ADC, or possibly, Nehalen, if they simply upgrade with a new chip right now.
So you don't believe the rumors that came out earlier about Apple having a new design for the Mac Pro already to go-supposedly just waiting on the announcement and sufficient quantities?
Anyway you look at it, if we don't see a new Mac Pro by the end of the week, I don't think we will see anything more from Apple until MWSF. As far as I can see, this is probably the last opportunity for any significant upgrades until next year. If Apple doesn't jump on the Penryn bandwagon now, I think we are all waiting for another two months minimum.
No they're not. They're making great strides at the high end.
I hope you're right but are those shipping products?
From what I've read Intel are holding back with Penryn clock speeds because AMD simply isn't competitive. At anand they feel penryn could be taken to 4 ghz without much effort at all.
We need AMD as competition for Intel, but wishing for won't make it so. AMD need to step up and deliver products that meet or exceed what Intel are making and they need to do it now. Where is Phenom and Barcelona?
If nothing else the Mac Pro needs an update because it's almost a year and a half old and it's stock specs are anything but pro. 1GB of stock RAM is an embarrassment when $800 PCs are shipping with 3GB. The same holds for shipping a "pro" machine with a 250GB HD and a video card that was considered low end back in mid 2006 when the Mac Pro first shipped.
Apple appears to have no clue about desktop computers whatsoever. They have a great idea for a miniature computer (Mac mini) and then make it so small that its performance is seriously restricted and its price far too high for what you get. The iMac is a nice box for those who like having Steve Jobs choose a display for you, but the current generation is a prime example of style over substance. The specs for everything but the CPU are decidedly low end while the price is typical Apple. Unfortunately the reliability has been anything but typical Apple so the current iMac is to be avoided.
C'mon Apple you've proven that you can make fantastic notebook computers and sell them like hotcakes. It should be simple to make a decent desktop at a competitive price.
I hope you're right but are those shipping products?
From what I've read Intel are holding back with Penryn clock speeds because AMD simply isn't competitive. At anand they feel penryn could be taken to 4 ghz without much effort at all.
We need AMD as competition for Intel, but wishing for won't make it so. AMD need to step up and deliver products that meet or exceed what Intel are making and they need to do it now. Where is Phenom and Barcelona?
Comments
...These breakthroughs, Intel says, clear the path for the chipmaker to design products that are 25 percent smaller than previous versions and, thus, more cost-effective, as well as the ability next year to pursue new ultra mobile and consumer electronics "system on chip" opportunities.
So it's the next year waiting game again? Perhaps this is what Apple is awaiting in order to really bring to life a compact portable. Good news.
if my memory is correct, Core Duo Yonah and at least one of the model of Xeon and Core 2 Extreme 2.60 (mobile) given exclusive access to apple first than any other vendor ...
i agree it will take until Jan MWSF, if mac mini, mac & mac pro will be redesigned and upgraded ...
What do you think the chances are that Apple will use the new 45nm chips in Mac Mini and iMac's? And would Apple do it at the same time as in the Mac Pro or wait until the dust (MacPro) clears?
I wonder if the new chips (using less power) mean that the Nano is in the near future.
What do you think the chances are that Apple will use the new 45nm chips in Mac Mini and iMac's? And would Apple do it at the same time as in the Mac Pro or wait until the dust (MacPro) clears?
I wonder if the new chips (using less power) mean that the Nano is in the near future.
45nm desktop parts in large quantities not available until middle of 2008 though there is one QX9650 extreme chip available, i am saying more on the products refersh as whole Mac Mini, Mac, Mac Pro
i meant Mac (not iMac)
I seriously expect a whole new Mac Pro design, or two at MWSF.
if my memory is correct, Core Duo Yonah and at least one of the model of Xeon and Core 2 Extreme 2.60 (mobile) given exclusive access to apple first than any other vendor ...
i agree it will take until Jan MWSF, if mac mini, mac & mac pro will be redesigned and upgraded ...
The Yonah was the chip I was talking about. That was the first chip Apple needed, to show that they could come through.
The only other chip that Apple had any real advance of, was the 3GHz Xenon I also mentioned.
All other times, either Apple announced new upgrades at the same time, or afterwards, sometimes by months.
There have been rumors that Apple was paying Intel extra so that they could hoard the new 3.2GHz Xenons, but so far, there is no evidence of that.
I would rather see a new machine with the new chips a couple of months after, than the old machine with the new chips now.
That's not so far away. What's the rush? Are you going to put your money down the minute it's announced? If Apple just announces 45nm machines, it won't be a big deal.
What I'd like to see, and I'd rather wait until Macworld, if necessary, is an announcement of Express 2, and other new technologies that are just now coming on line, but that no one else has.
I don't want the same old generation of machine we've had for years, with a simple cpu upgrade. If that's what happens, we'll likely have to wait even longer for something new, possibly not until Nehalen, late next year.
SSE4 would give current purchasers a bit of extra life so even just a Penryn bump is worthwhile. No way Apple is waiting for Nehalem.
40% improvement in codecs that use SSE4 and 25%=75% VM improvements is nice too.
Why wouldn't Apple do Seaburg and PCI 2.0? In any case I think there are already 2.0 motherboards out there from Tyan and ASUS with Seaburg.
The only thing I see Apple holding out for is chip volume.
SSE4 would give current purchasers a bit of extra life so even just a Penryn bump is worthwhile. No way Apple is waiting for Nehalem.
40% improvement in codecs that use SSE4 and 25%=75% VM improvements is nice too.
Why wouldn't Apple do Seaburg and PCI 2.0? In any case I think there are already 2.0 motherboards out there from Tyan and ASUS with Seaburg.
The only thing I see Apple holding out for is chip volume.
Chip Volumes are there, HP/Dell etc have announced machines with them, and if you call up and ask for 400 servers with quad processors, you're not getting a no you can't have that.
At the moment the Mac Pro at the bottom end is very poor value compared to the same price Imac, (i.e 2.8Ghz and a "free" 24 inch monitor.
yes it's glossy, but that's the only down side..
I expect an anncouncement soon from Apple on the new Mac pro's at least a speed bump/price adjustment if Penryn is not coming before January.
SSE4 would give current purchasers a bit of extra life so even just a Penryn bump is worthwhile. No way Apple is waiting for Nehalem.
40% improvement in codecs that use SSE4 and 25%=75% VM improvements is nice too.
Why wouldn't Apple do Seaburg and PCI 2.0? In any case I think there are already 2.0 motherboards out there from Tyan and ASUS with Seaburg.
The only thing I see Apple holding out for is chip volume.
I'm not saying anywhere that Apple isn't going to go to Penyrn. Of course they will.
What I did say is that I'd rather see an upgraded machine design come out in January WITH Penyrn, than a simple CPU upgrade now, which would make it more difficult for Apple to replace it in the next two or three months with a new design. I'd like to see Express 2. But you know how Apple is with Mobos. They are slow to change. Meaning that a new design might have to wait for, at the earliest, the ADC, or possibly, Nehalen, if they simply upgrade with a new chip right now.
I would also think that after last years criticism of Apple's Macworld introduction of the iPhone to the exclusion of almost everything else, they may want to provide more computer introductions this year.
The preliminary tests of these new processors on the tech sites have proven to be disappointing. While some functions are indeed noticeably faster, many others are only by a few percent. SSE4 advantages will, in many cases, have to wait for software to be coded for the new functionality. That will take months for much software.
mel, many PC manufacturers ANNOUNCED the chips before Apple but they actually shipped at the same time. In fact the PC shipments were token while Apple had reasonable supplies. I would expect the same again.
That only happened a couple of times. And Apple themselves often announced, only to not deliver some models (usually the higher end ones) weeks, or even a month, or so, later.
I'll be buying the top tier with a 16GB kit from a third party - probably Omni Tech via Ramseeker.com for about $999 (they say).
I'm thinking Wednesday November 14 due to Monday being Veterans' Day a national holiday. If it isn't Wednesday then I am clueless when it will be before January 15. Early December? I'm clueless anyway. But I like to post my guess because it makes me feel like I am accomplishing something.
I'll be buying the top tier with a 16GB kit from a third party - probably Omni Tech via Ramseeker.com for about $999 (they say).
If you haven't noticed, we're all clueless. We just pretend we aren't.
The nails are starting to be pounded into AMD's coffin!
No they're not. They're making great strides at the high end.
http://www.amd.com/us-en/Corporate/V...121775,00.html
http://www.amd.com/us-en/Corporate/V...121853,00.html
http://ati.amd.com/products/streamprocessor/specs.html
AMD FireStream? 9170: Industry's First GPU with Double-Precision Floating Point
AMD FireStream 9170 Specifications
Features
* Powered by next-generation ATI GPU from AMD
* Parallel processing architecture with 320 stream cores
* Up to 500 GFLOPs single precision performance
* 2GB GDDR3 on-board memory
* Double Precision Floating Point
* PCIe 2.0 x16 interface
* < 150W power consumption
* Memory export
* BIOS settings optimized for stream processing
* API and OS Support
* Windows XP, XP64
* Linux 32 and Linux 64
System Requirements
* PCI Express® based server or workstation with available x16 lane graphics slot
* 500W or greater power supply
* 512MB of system memory
Optimized for Computation
* Double-precision floating point for scientific and engineering codes
* 2GB on-board memory
* 320 stream cores drive up to 500 GFLOPS single-precision performance
* Asynchronous DMA, allowing data transfers without interrupting streams processor or CPU
Accelerating data-parallel algorithms in a variety of applications
* Seismic processing
* Financial analysis
* Engineering analysis
* Rendering
* Computational chemistry
* Genetic research
* Physics
* Video editing
* Security
AMD Warranty and Support
* Enterprise-level support
* Three year limited product repair/replacement warranty
* Toll-free phone and email access to technical support team
AMD FireStream stream processors deliver the tremendous parallel processing power of the GPU to compute-intensive applications for scientists, engineers and consumers. Using this leading-edge technology, developers can dramatically increase the performance of their critical algorithms, allowing users to get faster results or work on larger problems.
AMD leverages its expertise in CPUs, GPUs and software to deliver stream processing hardware solutions along with a comprehensive software development stack. Fortune 1000 companies, leading software developers, and academic institutions are demonstrating today that stream computing is the key to tremendous performance in a variety of applications.
The AMD FireStream 9170 provides the industry's first double-precision floating point capability on a GPU. With 2GB GDDR3 memory on board and single-precision performance of up to 500 GFLOPS, it is ideal for the most demanding compute-intensive, data-parallel tasks.
Using ground-breaking 55nm process technology, even this large-memory board consumes less than 150W, making it easy to deploy in a variety of server and workstation packages.
AMD FireStream SDK: Open systems approach drives adoption
The AMD FireStream SDK delivers all the tools developers need to create and optimize applications on stream processors. Developers can begin with Brook+, an AMD-enhanced and supported implementation of Brook, the popular open-source C-level language and compiler.
What I did say is that I'd rather see an upgraded machine design come out in January WITH Penyrn, than a simple CPU upgrade now, which would make it more difficult for Apple to replace it in the next two or three months with a new design. I'd like to see Express 2. But you know how Apple is with Mobos. They are slow to change. Meaning that a new design might have to wait for, at the earliest, the ADC, or possibly, Nehalen, if they simply upgrade with a new chip right now.
So you don't believe the rumors that came out earlier about Apple having a new design for the Mac Pro already to go-supposedly just waiting on the announcement and sufficient quantities?
Anyway you look at it, if we don't see a new Mac Pro by the end of the week, I don't think we will see anything more from Apple until MWSF. As far as I can see, this is probably the last opportunity for any significant upgrades until next year. If Apple doesn't jump on the Penryn bandwagon now, I think we are all waiting for another two months minimum.
http://media.corporate-ir.net/media_..._list11_07.pdf
combined specs & price
45-nm technology
------------------------
X5482 45 nm 12 MB L2¹ 3.2 GHz 1600 MHz 150W DP $1279
X5472 45 nm 12 MB L2¹ 3.00 GHz 1600 MHz 120W DP $958
X5460 45 nm 12 MB L2¹ 3.16 GHz 1333 MHz 120W DP $1172
X5450 45 nm 12 MB L2¹ 3.00 GHz 1333 MHz 120W DP $851
E5472 45 nm 12 MB L2¹ 3.00 GHz 1600 MHz 80W DP $1022
E5462 45 nm 12 MB L2¹ 2.80 GHz 1600 MHz 80W DP $797
E5450 45 nm 12 MB L2¹ 3.00 GHz 1333 MHz 80W DP $915
E5440 45 nm 12 MB L2¹ 2.83 GHz 1333 MHz 80W DP $690
E5430 45 nm 12 MB L2¹ 2.66 GHz 1333 MHz 80W DP $455
150 Watts, that is one hell of HOT machine! it will be better to go with E series!
No they're not. They're making great strides at the high end.
I hope you're right but are those shipping products?
From what I've read Intel are holding back with Penryn clock speeds because AMD simply isn't competitive. At anand they feel penryn could be taken to 4 ghz without much effort at all.
We need AMD as competition for Intel, but wishing for won't make it so. AMD need to step up and deliver products that meet or exceed what Intel are making and they need to do it now. Where is Phenom and Barcelona?
Apple appears to have no clue about desktop computers whatsoever. They have a great idea for a miniature computer (Mac mini) and then make it so small that its performance is seriously restricted and its price far too high for what you get. The iMac is a nice box for those who like having Steve Jobs choose a display for you, but the current generation is a prime example of style over substance. The specs for everything but the CPU are decidedly low end while the price is typical Apple. Unfortunately the reliability has been anything but typical Apple so the current iMac is to be avoided.
C'mon Apple you've proven that you can make fantastic notebook computers and sell them like hotcakes. It should be simple to make a decent desktop at a competitive price.
I hope you're right but are those shipping products?
From what I've read Intel are holding back with Penryn clock speeds because AMD simply isn't competitive. At anand they feel penryn could be taken to 4 ghz without much effort at all.
We need AMD as competition for Intel, but wishing for won't make it so. AMD need to step up and deliver products that meet or exceed what Intel are making and they need to do it now. Where is Phenom and Barcelona?
The card will no doubt be similar to this one:
http://www.nvidia.com/object/tesla_tech_specs.html
without needing to be it's own Server and the Compilers are open with that other link I referenced.
From Intel C/C++ to GCC and more.
Regarding Barcelona:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...name=Barcelona
Doesn't look like Phenom will be far behind:
http://www.asus.com/products.aspx?l1=3&l2=149
Newegg doesn't have them up yet. I'm betting they'll have to wait until they can get the Phenom in stock.
The motherboards will support the FireStream 9170. With PCI express 2.0 onboard of course.