Those of us who are smart enough not to buy a trivial upgrade, but who can wait for something more substantial.
I rest my case.
Then your case is quite shaky. Apple has done nothing but ship trivial upgrades for the Mac Pro for a year. The Cheese Grater case itself has not been updated substantially in over four years. The Mac Pro is the only machine that did not get a facelift after the Intel move.
It is folly to think that Apple does not already have the new internals and externals of the Mac Pro reboot sitting in a vault somewhere. They aren't waiting for the chips to come out to decide anything.
The only reason to wait till MWSF is timing. Either they don't want to split the quarter, or they don't have enough chips to move on the reboot.
The idea that Apple is waiting for MWSF simply to make the change "more substantial" is laughable.
Then your case is quite shaky. Apple has done nothing but ship trivial upgrades for the Mac Pro for a year. The Cheese Grater case itself has not been updated substantially in over four years. The Mac Pro is the only machine that did not get a facelift after the Intel move.
It is folly to think that Apple does not already have the new internals and externals of the Mac Pro reboot sitting in a vault somewhere. They aren't waiting for the chips to come out to decide anything.
The only reason to wait till MWSF is timing. Either they don't want to split the quarter, or they don't have enough chips to move on the reboot.
The idea that Apple is waiting for MWSF simply to make the change "more substantial" is laughable.
From what I see, it's pretty strong.
Apple will be having their major show in exactly two months. What makes you think that they would do any significant upgrade now that wouldn't be upstaged in the next several months?if they do make one now?
My case is that if they do come out with a simple cpu upgrade now, they won't be able to do anything for MacWorld, which is something I think they wouldn't want to spoil this year.
So I'm hoping they won't come out with a simple Penyrn update now, but will wait for MacWorld, where, hopefully, they will have something more substantial in mind.
If they do both, then the crazies here will scream. You know that very well.
A couple of months won't matter. Whoever wants to be first on the block, can be first on the block then.
Apple will be having their major show in exactly two months. What makes you think that they would do any significant upgrade now that wouldn't be upstaged in the next several months?if they do make one now?
My case is that if they do come out with a simple cpu upgrade now, they won't be able to do anything for MacWorld, which is something I think they wouldn't want to spoil this year.
So I'm hoping they won't come out with a simple Penyrn update now, but will wait for MacWorld, where, hopefully, they will have something more substantial in mind.
If they do both, then the crazies here will scream. You know that very well.
A couple of months won't matter. Whoever wants to be first on the block, can be first on the block then.
This is why I thought that we might see a Mac Pro update prior to MacWorld: it is a professional platform, not a consumer box. As such, I thought that Apple would release it whenever the chips and motherboard became available, like they did yesterday.
Companies don't care as much about splashy presentations on a stage with the whole world watching. They buy what they need when they need it. When you get close to a major upgrade like Penryn, you might reasonably hold back your purchases to see what your options are going to be.
Apparently, Apple thinks that MacWorld is going to be the best place to roll out the new Mac Pros. I disagree, but I don't get a vote it the matter.
Now, I need a professional platform and I am going to have reconsider where I get it. It will still be a Mac, but it might well be from eBay. It might be a refurb.
But it will definitely not be a list priced EOL box from Apple.
we can still have hope. Apple announced stuff before on Wednesday and the last MacBook upgrade I think was on a friday. So it could happen anytime this week or next tuesday. I agree if we don't see it by end of November is pretty much a given MWSF will be the place.
I need a new machine for work, for sure I am not buying their current offerings. Too expensive for an old tech. If the chips are on Apple's hands now, there is no reason they will wait almost 2 months to announce it. Unless there is a shortage, we will see it soon.
No they're not. They're making great strides at the high end.
Sure, and I am sure AMD will be around for a quite some time.
However, that FireStream was just announced. It is also $2,000.00 USD and no ones supporting yet. With the exception of them, of course.
But, while they are making some great strides, they are also not ahead of the game in other areas. If it were up to me, AMD would do a couple of things differently. Still a good company, and they're not going anywhere, any time soon.
This is why I thought that we might see a Mac Pro update prior to MacWorld: it is a professional platform, not a consumer box. As such, I thought that Apple would release it whenever the chips and motherboard became available, like they did yesterday.
Companies don't care as much about splashy presentations on a stage with the whole world watching. They buy what they need when they need it. When you get close to a major upgrade like Penryn, you might reasonably hold back your purchases to see what your options are going to be.
Apparently, Apple thinks that MacWorld is going to be the best place to roll out the new Mac Pros. I disagree, but I don't get a vote it the matter.
Now, I need a professional platform and I am going to have reconsider where I get it. It will still be a Mac, but it might well be from eBay. It might be a refurb.
But it will definitely not be a list priced EOL box from Apple.
Apple almost always waits for a big event, or arranges one for big announcements. That includes the Mac Pro. It has always been this way.
I've complained about that way of thinking, but that's the way they do it.
If we weren't so close to a show, they might send out announcements, and have one. But this is the middle of november, not the middle of August.
Companies care about splashy presentations. That's why there are trade shows for every industry. Apple's customers are no different.
It gives people from companies a chance to talk to reps from Apple, as well as other companies they might not even know about otherwise.
Jobs likes to make his mark at these things, as you must surely know by now. He won't get up on stage and say nothing.
And as I've said several times now, Apple was castigated about not introducing new Mac's at last years show, which Apple was reminded, rather forcibly, called MACworld.
I feel pretty confident that they have something big planned for this year.
I will be disappointed if they come out with a crummy Penyrn update, and leave it until sometime next quarter, maybe by March, so that the sniveling hoards here can get over the fact that they bought a new machine, to come out with a real upgrade.
Otherwise, we'll see a bunch of crybabies climbing the barricades, screaming about how Apple cheated them by coming out with a new machine just two months after they just bought their updated model.
I'd rather Apple just waited until January, and did the whole enchilada, as I hope they will, or I'll be waiting longer, probably until Nehalen.
we can still have hope. Apple announced stuff before on Wednesday and the last MacBook upgrade I think was on a friday. So it could happen anytime this week or next tuesday. I agree if we don't see it by end of November is pretty much a given MWSF will be the place.
I need a new machine for work, for sure I am not buying their current offerings. Too expensive for an old tech. If the chips are on Apple's hands now, there is no reason they will wait almost 2 months to announce it. Unless there is a shortage, we will see it soon.
There's nothing you need that you can't wait another two months for. Penyrn alone isn't going to make THAT much of a difference.
Apple will be having their major show in exactly two months. What makes you think that they would do any significant upgrade now that wouldn't be upstaged in the next several months?if they do make one now?
My case is that if they do come out with a simple cpu upgrade now, they won't be able to do anything for MacWorld, which is something I think they wouldn't want to spoil this year.
So I'm hoping they won't come out with a simple Penyrn update now, but will wait for MacWorld, where, hopefully, they will have something more substantial in mind.
If they do both, then the crazies here will scream. You know that very well.
A couple of months won't matter. Whoever wants to be first on the block, can be first on the block then.
Yeah that makes sense in the face of short top end supply now anyway. I too would love to see Steve bragging about the details of the Dual Harpertown Seaburg Mac Pro @ 3.2GHz shipping TODAY January 15, 2008. And one more thing? A 2.8GHz Penryn C2D MBP as well. Oh yeah the ultraslim MBP.
Yeah that makes sense in the face of short top end supply now anyway. I too would love to see Steve bragging about the details of the Dual Harpertown Seaburg Mac Pro @ 3.2GHz shipping TODAY January 15, 2008. And one more thing? A 2.8GHz Penryn C2D MBP as well. Oh yeah the ultraslim MBP.
Can you just say that the MacPro is being announced tomorrow so we don't jinx it? lol I really don't want to buy a current one tomorrow.
This post makes me begin to believe Apple will wait until the Tuesday January 15 SteveNote to announce the new Penryn Harpertown Mac Pro line. I was really hoping for tomorrow. But all signs point to extremely limited supply of top speed Harpertown processors at this time thus making it premature to expect many top speed Penryns to ship much before MWSF in any sort of credible quantity.
If Apple announces a new line tomorrow that they can't ship in serious quantity this month or probably even next month, they will kill all sales of the current Mac Pro line to those who need something now and/or who don't watch the business like we do. Plus they would piss off all the early orderers like us for being so slow when it's really Intel who is still just ramping up production of the whole line.
I wish I were wrong about this. Nothing would make me happier than for a secret supply of lots of 3.2GHz Harpertowns to have been stockpiled by Apple already. But that is highly unlikely. Oh well. I guess I'll just order a couple of 4GB ram kits for my Quads to tide me over.
Thursday is probably the drop dead day for this to happen in November. December seems unlikely as Apple has no history of ever introducing anything new during the holiday season. On a positive note, this year's MacWorld is being held another week deeper into January so top speed yields in quantity should be seriously rolling off the line in Arizona by then so Steve can say shipping TODAY.
The most amazing part of that list you posed is that to a T, the new quad core harpertown chips are less expensive than the dual core woodcrest chips. If there was any doubt to an all 8-core lineup, there isn't anymore. Personally, I expect a lineup 2.33, 2.8, 3.0 (80w), 3.16ghz
The FireStream isn't tied to AMD Chipsets. However, this and nVidia's solutions are two products Intel can't even produce.
If you'd prefer to prove me wrong, please let my friends at Intel know what you know and they don't.
Intel hasn't tried (yet) to produce something like this, so I wouldn't use the word "can't" in this context. And as for your friends, Intel is a big company with strict rules about secrecy. They may not know, or if they do, they may not be allowed to tell you.
AMD's situation seems to be becoming increasingly dire. They are losing ground to Intel and their latest attempts to keep up are sounding more and more like corporate doublespeak to make up for serious technical shortcomings. Its sad to see, and I do hope they manage to catch up somehow, but I'm not going to hold my breath.
I think this will be the Mac Pro to get. I think part of the logic for a Macworld announcement may have something to do with next gen GPU parts from either Nvidia or Ati.
I don't like the wait. Because, as one poster said above, the current Mac Pro is trying to sell you something that mainstream Mid-towers have more of at half the price. More HD. Better GPU. More ram. Frankly, it's as shocking as it is embarassing.
Now we have Open GL 2.1 , what's stopping Apple with GPUs? Yeesh. Can't we just get to a place with GPUs where we can just put any sodding PC GPU in as with the HD? Pffft.
Lemon Bon Bon.
Quote:
If nothing else the Mac Pro needs an update because it's almost a year and a half old and it's stock specs are anything but pro. 1GB of stock RAM is an embarrassment when $800 PCs are shipping with 3GB. The same holds for shipping a "pro" machine with a 250GB HD and a video card that was considered low end back in mid 2006 when the Mac Pro first shipped.
Apple appears to have no clue about desktop computers whatsoever. They have a great idea for a miniature computer (Mac mini) and then make it so small that its performance is seriously restricted and its price far too high for what you get. The iMac is a nice box for those who like having Steve Jobs choose a display for you, but the current generation is a prime example of style over substance. The specs for everything but the CPU are decidedly low end while the price is typical Apple. Unfortunately the reliability has been anything but typical Apple so the current iMac is to be avoided.
C'mon Apple you've proven that you can make fantastic notebook computers and sell them like hotcakes. It should be simple to make a decent desktop at a competitive price.
It's getting to the point where I may just get a 24 inch iMac as an interim to Nehalem. The cpu that will put the tock in the tick.
The Penryns aren't that much faster than what's out there. The big difference will be the next gen 9800 series Nvidia cards. And I doubt they'll be out before X-mas. So why update with the 8800GTX? They didn't do that in March/April with the Octo drop in. That GPU itself is a year old.
I think this will be the Mac Pro to get. I think part of the logic for a Macworld announcement may have something to do with next gen GPU parts from either Nvidia or Ati.
I don't like the wait. Because, as one poster said above, the current Mac Pro is trying to sell you something that mainstream Mid-towers have more of at half the price. More HD. Better GPU. More ram. Frankly, it's as shocking as it is embarassing.
Now we have Open GL 2.1 , what's stopping Apple with GPUs? Yeesh. Can't we just get to a place with GPUs where we can just put any sodding PC GPU in as with the HD? Pffft.
Lemon Bon Bon.
Word.
no mid-price tower has 8 cores. If one buys a Mac Pro, one has to make a desision as to WHY, they are buying it.
If they are buying it for cpou power, then the top models are the machines to get. There isn't anything better in the PC world.
But, if one needs 3D performance, then Apple's choices are difficult. The top card is fine, bu the lower cards are below where they should be today.
Apple is making a mistake by tying their cards to new machines. If they released new cards as they became available, as they do in the PC world, we would have much less to be concerned about. But, Apple doesn't think that way. That's a mistake.
One shouldn't have to buy a new machine to get a better card.
I bemoan the fact that ATI is no longer producing cards for us.
Insofar as HDD or memory is concerned, that's not even a real issue. You can buy as much of that as you want. You wouldn't want to stock up on those at Apple's prices anyway. I don't even know why you guys even brought it up.
The only issue is graphics cards, and only for those who really need them.
For graphics, publishing, and image editing uses, the lowest card that comes with the machine is better than what is needed, not worse.
Apple is making a mistake by tying their cards to new machines. If they released new cards as they became available, as they do in the PC world, we would have much less to be concerned about. But, Apple doesn't think that way. That's a mistake.
One shouldn't have to buy a new machine to get a better card.
This is something that I don't get: with all the independent programmers and hackers that create useful add-ons and work-arounds, why are there no hacks for video cards? Is it really that hard to fix this? Isn't Apple using an Intel spec for GPUs (EFI). Isn't that spec published? Couldn't a savvy programmer make an awful lot of money by writing 3rd party drivers (or whatever they are called) for NVidia an ATI cards?
The only conclusion is that it must be that hard. And that begs the question of why did Apple go in this direction?
Quote:
For graphics, publishing, and image editing uses, the lowest card that comes with the machine is better than what is needed, not worse.
Give up Melgross. I have been trying to make that point for quite awhile and no one seems to want to hear it. The fact is that PhotoShop and Illustrator don't even address the GPU, they use the CPU, RAM and hard drives.
This is something that I don't get: with all the independent programmers and hackers that create useful add-ons and work-arounds, why are there no hacks for video cards? Is it really that hard to fix this? Isn't Apple using an Intel spec for GPUs (EFI). Isn't that spec published? Couldn't a savvy programmer make an awful lot of money by writing 3rd party drivers (or whatever they are called) for NVidia an ATI cards?
The biggest reason is that there is such a small market for them, that no one cares enough to do it.
That's why ATI has given up. Since Apple makes their own boards, and buys the gpu's and support chips from them, they see Apple, correctly, selling most of the boards, and see little room for themselves.
As far as third parties go, why bother?
Quote:
The only conclusion is that it must be that hard. And that begs the question of why did Apple go in this direction?
Again, it's total sales, and marketshare. Apple has neither. With Apple selling about 500 thousand Mac Pro's a year (hopefully that number is going up), and most users needing nothing more than the cards Apple offers, there is no market for third parties. Independent hackers could get other cards to work, possibly. But to what end? Pro's would never buy them, because there would be no guarantee they would work right.
Quote:
Give up Melgross. I have been trying to make that point for quite awhile and no one seems to want to hear it. The fact is that PhotoShop and Illustrator don't even address the GPU, they use the CPU, RAM and hard drives.
Great, now you got me doing it too.
Once you get to know me better, you will learn that I never give up.
Comments
Ok, that's just crazy. What decent Mac fan doesn't want the new stuff NOW!
Those of us who are smart enough not to buy a trivial upgrade, but who can wait for something more substantial.
If they ship the Mac Pro tomorrow, I'd buy it.
I rest my case.
Those of us who are smart enough not to buy a trivial upgrade, but who can wait for something more substantial.
I rest my case.
Then your case is quite shaky. Apple has done nothing but ship trivial upgrades for the Mac Pro for a year. The Cheese Grater case itself has not been updated substantially in over four years. The Mac Pro is the only machine that did not get a facelift after the Intel move.
It is folly to think that Apple does not already have the new internals and externals of the Mac Pro reboot sitting in a vault somewhere. They aren't waiting for the chips to come out to decide anything.
The only reason to wait till MWSF is timing. Either they don't want to split the quarter, or they don't have enough chips to move on the reboot.
The idea that Apple is waiting for MWSF simply to make the change "more substantial" is laughable.
Then your case is quite shaky. Apple has done nothing but ship trivial upgrades for the Mac Pro for a year. The Cheese Grater case itself has not been updated substantially in over four years. The Mac Pro is the only machine that did not get a facelift after the Intel move.
It is folly to think that Apple does not already have the new internals and externals of the Mac Pro reboot sitting in a vault somewhere. They aren't waiting for the chips to come out to decide anything.
The only reason to wait till MWSF is timing. Either they don't want to split the quarter, or they don't have enough chips to move on the reboot.
The idea that Apple is waiting for MWSF simply to make the change "more substantial" is laughable.
From what I see, it's pretty strong.
Apple will be having their major show in exactly two months. What makes you think that they would do any significant upgrade now that wouldn't be upstaged in the next several months?if they do make one now?
My case is that if they do come out with a simple cpu upgrade now, they won't be able to do anything for MacWorld, which is something I think they wouldn't want to spoil this year.
So I'm hoping they won't come out with a simple Penyrn update now, but will wait for MacWorld, where, hopefully, they will have something more substantial in mind.
If they do both, then the crazies here will scream. You know that very well.
A couple of months won't matter. Whoever wants to be first on the block, can be first on the block then.
From what I see, it's pretty strong.
Apple will be having their major show in exactly two months. What makes you think that they would do any significant upgrade now that wouldn't be upstaged in the next several months?if they do make one now?
My case is that if they do come out with a simple cpu upgrade now, they won't be able to do anything for MacWorld, which is something I think they wouldn't want to spoil this year.
So I'm hoping they won't come out with a simple Penyrn update now, but will wait for MacWorld, where, hopefully, they will have something more substantial in mind.
If they do both, then the crazies here will scream. You know that very well.
A couple of months won't matter. Whoever wants to be first on the block, can be first on the block then.
This is why I thought that we might see a Mac Pro update prior to MacWorld: it is a professional platform, not a consumer box. As such, I thought that Apple would release it whenever the chips and motherboard became available, like they did yesterday.
Companies don't care as much about splashy presentations on a stage with the whole world watching. They buy what they need when they need it. When you get close to a major upgrade like Penryn, you might reasonably hold back your purchases to see what your options are going to be.
Apparently, Apple thinks that MacWorld is going to be the best place to roll out the new Mac Pros. I disagree, but I don't get a vote it the matter.
Now, I need a professional platform and I am going to have reconsider where I get it. It will still be a Mac, but it might well be from eBay. It might be a refurb.
But it will definitely not be a list priced EOL box from Apple.
we can still have hope. Apple announced stuff before on Wednesday and the last MacBook upgrade I think was on a friday. So it could happen anytime this week or next tuesday. I agree if we don't see it by end of November is pretty much a given MWSF will be the place.
I need a new machine for work, for sure I am not buying their current offerings. Too expensive for an old tech. If the chips are on Apple's hands now, there is no reason they will wait almost 2 months to announce it. Unless there is a shortage, we will see it soon.
No they're not. They're making great strides at the high end.
Sure, and I am sure AMD will be around for a quite some time.
However, that FireStream was just announced. It is also $2,000.00 USD and no ones supporting yet. With the exception of them, of course.
But, while they are making some great strides, they are also not ahead of the game in other areas. If it were up to me, AMD would do a couple of things differently. Still a good company, and they're not going anywhere, any time soon.
This is why I thought that we might see a Mac Pro update prior to MacWorld: it is a professional platform, not a consumer box. As such, I thought that Apple would release it whenever the chips and motherboard became available, like they did yesterday.
Companies don't care as much about splashy presentations on a stage with the whole world watching. They buy what they need when they need it. When you get close to a major upgrade like Penryn, you might reasonably hold back your purchases to see what your options are going to be.
Apparently, Apple thinks that MacWorld is going to be the best place to roll out the new Mac Pros. I disagree, but I don't get a vote it the matter.
Now, I need a professional platform and I am going to have reconsider where I get it. It will still be a Mac, but it might well be from eBay. It might be a refurb.
But it will definitely not be a list priced EOL box from Apple.
Apple almost always waits for a big event, or arranges one for big announcements. That includes the Mac Pro. It has always been this way.
I've complained about that way of thinking, but that's the way they do it.
If we weren't so close to a show, they might send out announcements, and have one. But this is the middle of november, not the middle of August.
Companies care about splashy presentations. That's why there are trade shows for every industry. Apple's customers are no different.
It gives people from companies a chance to talk to reps from Apple, as well as other companies they might not even know about otherwise.
Jobs likes to make his mark at these things, as you must surely know by now. He won't get up on stage and say nothing.
And as I've said several times now, Apple was castigated about not introducing new Mac's at last years show, which Apple was reminded, rather forcibly, called MACworld.
I feel pretty confident that they have something big planned for this year.
I will be disappointed if they come out with a crummy Penyrn update, and leave it until sometime next quarter, maybe by March, so that the sniveling hoards here can get over the fact that they bought a new machine, to come out with a real upgrade.
Otherwise, we'll see a bunch of crybabies climbing the barricades, screaming about how Apple cheated them by coming out with a new machine just two months after they just bought their updated model.
I'd rather Apple just waited until January, and did the whole enchilada, as I hope they will, or I'll be waiting longer, probably until Nehalen.
Guys,
we can still have hope. Apple announced stuff before on Wednesday and the last MacBook upgrade I think was on a friday. So it could happen anytime this week or next tuesday. I agree if we don't see it by end of November is pretty much a given MWSF will be the place.
I need a new machine for work, for sure I am not buying their current offerings. Too expensive for an old tech. If the chips are on Apple's hands now, there is no reason they will wait almost 2 months to announce it. Unless there is a shortage, we will see it soon.
There's nothing you need that you can't wait another two months for. Penyrn alone isn't going to make THAT much of a difference.
Apple will be having their major show in exactly two months. What makes you think that they would do any significant upgrade now that wouldn't be upstaged in the next several months?if they do make one now?
My case is that if they do come out with a simple cpu upgrade now, they won't be able to do anything for MacWorld, which is something I think they wouldn't want to spoil this year.
So I'm hoping they won't come out with a simple Penyrn update now, but will wait for MacWorld, where, hopefully, they will have something more substantial in mind.
If they do both, then the crazies here will scream. You know that very well.
A couple of months won't matter. Whoever wants to be first on the block, can be first on the block then.
Yeah that makes sense in the face of short top end supply now anyway. I too would love to see Steve bragging about the details of the Dual Harpertown Seaburg Mac Pro @ 3.2GHz shipping TODAY January 15, 2008. And one more thing? A 2.8GHz Penryn C2D MBP as well. Oh yeah the ultraslim MBP.
Yeah that makes sense in the face of short top end supply now anyway. I too would love to see Steve bragging about the details of the Dual Harpertown Seaburg Mac Pro @ 3.2GHz shipping TODAY January 15, 2008. And one more thing? A 2.8GHz Penryn C2D MBP as well. Oh yeah the ultraslim MBP.
Can you just say that the MacPro is being announced tomorrow so we don't jinx it? lol I really don't want to buy a current one tomorrow.
Can you just say that the MacPro is being announced tomorrow so we don't jinx it? lol I really don't want to buy a current one tomorrow.
I know it must hurt. I wish I were wrong. Would be great if I am. But I'm no longer holding my breath thanks to Aiden's Intel on Intel.
Even folks I know that work for Intel wouldn't make such a false claim.
AMD has been expanding it's chip capacities. It's hard to take over the market if you can't produce enough to grow your market share.
Actually, folks I know who formerly worked at Intel told me this (and they weren't grunts). I didn't think of it on my own.
Link to the page this quote is from over at MacRumors. Moderators - If this is not allowed, please PM me and it won't happen again.
This post makes me begin to believe Apple will wait until the Tuesday January 15 SteveNote to announce the new Penryn Harpertown Mac Pro line. I was really hoping for tomorrow. But all signs point to extremely limited supply of top speed Harpertown processors at this time thus making it premature to expect many top speed Penryns to ship much before MWSF in any sort of credible quantity.
If Apple announces a new line tomorrow that they can't ship in serious quantity this month or probably even next month, they will kill all sales of the current Mac Pro line to those who need something now and/or who don't watch the business like we do. Plus they would piss off all the early orderers like us for being so slow when it's really Intel who is still just ramping up production of the whole line.
I wish I were wrong about this. Nothing would make me happier than for a secret supply of lots of 3.2GHz Harpertowns to have been stockpiled by Apple already. But that is highly unlikely. Oh well. I guess I'll just order a couple of 4GB ram kits for my Quads to tide me over.
Thursday is probably the drop dead day for this to happen in November. December seems unlikely as Apple has no history of ever introducing anything new during the holiday season. On a positive note, this year's MacWorld is being held another week deeper into January so top speed yields in quantity should be seriously rolling off the line in Arizona by then so Steve can say shipping TODAY.
The most amazing part of that list you posed is that to a T, the new quad core harpertown chips are less expensive than the dual core woodcrest chips. If there was any doubt to an all 8-core lineup, there isn't anymore. Personally, I expect a lineup 2.33, 2.8, 3.0 (80w), 3.16ghz
The FireStream isn't tied to AMD Chipsets. However, this and nVidia's solutions are two products Intel can't even produce.
If you'd prefer to prove me wrong, please let my friends at Intel know what you know and they don't.
Intel hasn't tried (yet) to produce something like this, so I wouldn't use the word "can't" in this context. And as for your friends, Intel is a big company with strict rules about secrecy. They may not know, or if they do, they may not be allowed to tell you.
AMD's situation seems to be becoming increasingly dire. They are losing ground to Intel and their latest attempts to keep up are sounding more and more like corporate doublespeak to make up for serious technical shortcomings. Its sad to see, and I do hope they manage to catch up somehow, but I'm not going to hold my breath.
Which will happen when Nehalem comes out.
I think this will be the Mac Pro to get. I think part of the logic for a Macworld announcement may have something to do with next gen GPU parts from either Nvidia or Ati.
I don't like the wait. Because, as one poster said above, the current Mac Pro is trying to sell you something that mainstream Mid-towers have more of at half the price. More HD. Better GPU. More ram. Frankly, it's as shocking as it is embarassing.
Now we have Open GL 2.1 , what's stopping Apple with GPUs? Yeesh. Can't we just get to a place with GPUs where we can just put any sodding PC GPU in as with the HD? Pffft.
Lemon Bon Bon.
If nothing else the Mac Pro needs an update because it's almost a year and a half old and it's stock specs are anything but pro. 1GB of stock RAM is an embarrassment when $800 PCs are shipping with 3GB. The same holds for shipping a "pro" machine with a 250GB HD and a video card that was considered low end back in mid 2006 when the Mac Pro first shipped.
Apple appears to have no clue about desktop computers whatsoever. They have a great idea for a miniature computer (Mac mini) and then make it so small that its performance is seriously restricted and its price far too high for what you get. The iMac is a nice box for those who like having Steve Jobs choose a display for you, but the current generation is a prime example of style over substance. The specs for everything but the CPU are decidedly low end while the price is typical Apple. Unfortunately the reliability has been anything but typical Apple so the current iMac is to be avoided.
C'mon Apple you've proven that you can make fantastic notebook computers and sell them like hotcakes. It should be simple to make a decent desktop at a competitive price.
Word.
The Penryns aren't that much faster than what's out there. The big difference will be the next gen 9800 series Nvidia cards. And I doubt they'll be out before X-mas. So why update with the 8800GTX? They didn't do that in March/April with the Octo drop in. That GPU itself is a year old.
Lemon Bon Bon.
I think this will be the Mac Pro to get. I think part of the logic for a Macworld announcement may have something to do with next gen GPU parts from either Nvidia or Ati.
I don't like the wait. Because, as one poster said above, the current Mac Pro is trying to sell you something that mainstream Mid-towers have more of at half the price. More HD. Better GPU. More ram. Frankly, it's as shocking as it is embarassing.
Now we have Open GL 2.1 , what's stopping Apple with GPUs? Yeesh. Can't we just get to a place with GPUs where we can just put any sodding PC GPU in as with the HD? Pffft.
Lemon Bon Bon.
Word.
no mid-price tower has 8 cores. If one buys a Mac Pro, one has to make a desision as to WHY, they are buying it.
If they are buying it for cpou power, then the top models are the machines to get. There isn't anything better in the PC world.
But, if one needs 3D performance, then Apple's choices are difficult. The top card is fine, bu the lower cards are below where they should be today.
Apple is making a mistake by tying their cards to new machines. If they released new cards as they became available, as they do in the PC world, we would have much less to be concerned about. But, Apple doesn't think that way. That's a mistake.
One shouldn't have to buy a new machine to get a better card.
I bemoan the fact that ATI is no longer producing cards for us.
Insofar as HDD or memory is concerned, that's not even a real issue. You can buy as much of that as you want. You wouldn't want to stock up on those at Apple's prices anyway. I don't even know why you guys even brought it up.
The only issue is graphics cards, and only for those who really need them.
For graphics, publishing, and image editing uses, the lowest card that comes with the machine is better than what is needed, not worse.
Apple is making a mistake by tying their cards to new machines. If they released new cards as they became available, as they do in the PC world, we would have much less to be concerned about. But, Apple doesn't think that way. That's a mistake.
One shouldn't have to buy a new machine to get a better card.
This is something that I don't get: with all the independent programmers and hackers that create useful add-ons and work-arounds, why are there no hacks for video cards? Is it really that hard to fix this? Isn't Apple using an Intel spec for GPUs (EFI). Isn't that spec published? Couldn't a savvy programmer make an awful lot of money by writing 3rd party drivers (or whatever they are called) for NVidia an ATI cards?
The only conclusion is that it must be that hard. And that begs the question of why did Apple go in this direction?
For graphics, publishing, and image editing uses, the lowest card that comes with the machine is better than what is needed, not worse.
Give up Melgross. I have been trying to make that point for quite awhile and no one seems to want to hear it. The fact is that PhotoShop and Illustrator don't even address the GPU, they use the CPU, RAM and hard drives.
Great, now you got me doing it too.
This is something that I don't get: with all the independent programmers and hackers that create useful add-ons and work-arounds, why are there no hacks for video cards? Is it really that hard to fix this? Isn't Apple using an Intel spec for GPUs (EFI). Isn't that spec published? Couldn't a savvy programmer make an awful lot of money by writing 3rd party drivers (or whatever they are called) for NVidia an ATI cards?
The biggest reason is that there is such a small market for them, that no one cares enough to do it.
That's why ATI has given up. Since Apple makes their own boards, and buys the gpu's and support chips from them, they see Apple, correctly, selling most of the boards, and see little room for themselves.
As far as third parties go, why bother?
The only conclusion is that it must be that hard. And that begs the question of why did Apple go in this direction?
Again, it's total sales, and marketshare. Apple has neither. With Apple selling about 500 thousand Mac Pro's a year (hopefully that number is going up), and most users needing nothing more than the cards Apple offers, there is no market for third parties. Independent hackers could get other cards to work, possibly. But to what end? Pro's would never buy them, because there would be no guarantee they would work right.
Give up Melgross. I have been trying to make that point for quite awhile and no one seems to want to hear it. The fact is that PhotoShop and Illustrator don't even address the GPU, they use the CPU, RAM and hard drives.
Great, now you got me doing it too.
Once you get to know me better, you will learn that I never give up.
Once you get to know me better, you will learn that I never give up.
Good man.