To darngooddesign and bavlondon2, along with any other critics about the iPhone, the iPhone suits me better than any other cell phone on the market and it will get better. That doesn?t mean I?m trying to convince you to buy one. Love it or hate it, to each their own.
But I?m not going to argue over the value of the iPhone compared to other cell phones any more than I would waste time arguing over what?s the best car or television to buy, as that depends on each person and what?s best for them.
And if the iphone is so high and mighty then why is it being outsold in the UK by the LG Viewty?
Dec. 14, 2007
LG Viewty Notches Phenomenal Performance in First 5 Weeks
Seoul, Korea, December 17, 2007 ? LG Electronics has announced that its LG Viewty featuring five-megapixel camera phone (model: LG-KU990) has recorded impressive sales performance of over 310,000 units since its introduction to the European market.
With its innovative functions and distinctive design, LG Viewty, the professional-level camera phone earned extensive media and consumer attention even before its launch. The high-tech phone has achieved even wider acclaim since entering markets across Europe including UK, France and Germany notching around 6,300 units daily. This number exceeded the initial records of LG?s successful earlier models, LG Chocolate and LG Shine comparing with the same period.
The secret behind the successful sales performance can be credited to the astounding blend of technology and features that LG has packed into this handset. An advanced, full-LCD touch screen complements a rich array of camera features allowing consumers to enjoy high quality image, editing and image-sharing. All of the rich features of LG Viewty surpassing those of any handset currently on the market have been designed to bring maximum benefit to consumers who place a priority on their viewing experience.
Stylish design also factors into the Viewty?s popularity, as LG has always placed a premium on design as proven through LG Chocolate and LG Shine. LG Viewty has now achieved a harmony of high technology and sensational style by winning the 2008 iF product design award.
?We are thrilled about the immense interest from consumers. In some countries, our product supply is even running low. This impressive result is attributable to the perfect balance between technology and design developed based on consumer insight,? said Dr. Skott Ahn, President & CEO of LG Electronics Mobile Communications Company. ?LG Viewty?s success is a significant achievement for LG as it is the first product in a high-technology line of handset at LG Electronics. With the confidence gained from our brisk sales activity, we will continue to improve areas of both features and premium design.?
Sales of LG Viewty are expected to continuously grow throughout the world since it has currently launched into the Asian and Middle East markets and been spotlighted as the best Christmas gift item for packing a sleek handset together with a high-quality digital camera.
LG has announced that they have sold 310,000 LG Viewty handsets since launch 5 weeks ago. I believe that this means the LG Viewty is outselling the iPhone in Europe, even though the Viewty hasn?t been supported with the massive PR and advertising budget of the iPhone. Apple, on the other hand have been very quiet with regards to their sales figures in Europe, I wonder why?
Not that Apple are ordinarily so reticent. On the 30th Oct 2007, a few days after the launch of the new Mac operating system, the Apple PR machine released a statement proudly stating that ?Apple Sells Two Million Copies of Mac OS X Leopard in First Weekend.? Since the European launch of the iPhone, however, on the 9th Nov, we haven?t heard a thing from the usually very vocal Apple.
What we do know is that the iPhone launch in the UK was a flop, considering all the hype and advertising £s which were spent. Since its launch on 9th November, official reports from O2 have said that ?tens of thousands? of iPhone have been sold in the UK, one of largest European markets, quashing the silly numbers which were banded around like 100,000 sold in the first weekend, yeh right!
It has also emerged that Apple have blocked the iPhone sales figures from been reported by Gfk, the UK research agency. Gfk collect EPOS (Electronic point of sale) data from all the major UK mobile phone retailers, then produces reports which are commercially available. As far as I?m aware this is first time that a mobile phone handset?s sales have been blocked, again, I wonder why?
Overall, there are no official figures available, but if the iPhone has only sold tens of thousands in the UK, it seems unlikely they have sold over 310,000 across Europe.
Why is the Viewty outselling the iPhone? Well?
1. The Viewty is a better phone ? The Viewty has a 5 mega-pixel camera vs. the iPhone?s 2mp, The Viewty is 3g enabled (HSDPA) which is way faster than the iPhone (2.5g), The Viewty has a Xenon flash so it can take pictures at night. I could go on but it will take up too much space, you will be better off reading this: 51 Reason not to buy the iPhone.
2. The Viewty is available on all the major phone networks - 02, Orange, Vodafone, T-mobile, Virgin Mobile, and 3, unlike the iPhone that is just available on O2.
3. The Viewty is available on a 12 month contract ? unlike the iPhone, which has a minimum contract length of 18 months.
4. The Viewty is a lot cheaper ? The Viewty is FREE on an 12 month O2 contract (200 mins and 200 texts per month), for £30 per month, plus £55 cashback, so the total price over the contract length is £305, whereas the cheapest iPhone contract will cost you £899, (£269 for the handset, plus 18 months x £35 for O2 200 price plan, 200 mins and 200 texts. Even if you compare the 18 month contracts the iPhone is 122% more expensive than the Viewty. (Viewty FREE on 18 02 month contract (200 mins + 200 text), £25 p/m minus £45 cashback = £405 total over contract length)
LG Viewty to be launched in the USA?
So Apple better look out because if LG launch the Viewty in the US they will have a very serious competitor. Will the Viewty outsell the iPhone in Apple?s own country? Probably, I would have thought there are a lot of Americans who?d want a better phone than the iPhone, for a cheaper price, and one which is available on networks other than just AT&T.
iPhone won?t reach its potential
The iPhone interface and usability are amazing but Apple?s greed has resulted in the iPhone sales falling way short of its potential. The iPhone could have been market leader but when it costs so much, is only available on one network, and is only available in certain shops and websites, it is never going to reach its true potential.
To darngooddesign and bavlondon2, along with any other critics about the iPhone, the iPhone suits me better than any other cell phone on the market and it will get better. That doesn?t mean I?m trying to convince you to buy one. Love it or hate it, to each their own.
But I?m not going to argue over the value of the iPhone compared to other cell phones any more than I would waste time arguing over what?s the best car or television to buy, as that depends on each person and what?s best for them.
Before you get happy jumping to conclusions. I've had my 8GB since launch day and hacked it to provide what apple left off; however, some things can't be added by anyone other than Apple and they are sorely missing. All that being said I still value what it offers me higher than 3g and a better camera. I'm willing to be patient for what Apple will hopefully give us. I also didn't interpret the software upgrades to mean everything has to happen in 6 months, and it looks like they're giving us a bunch of good stuff in 113. I also think Apple is waiting to see what the first round of killers offer software-wise before they drop OS2.0 on us next year.
So Apple better look out because if LG launch the Viewty in the US they will have a very serious competitor. Will the Viewty outsell the iPhone in Apple?s own country? Probably, I would have thought there are a lot of Americans who?d want a better phone than the iPhone, for a cheaper price, and one which is available on networks other than just AT&T.
Yeah initially the Viewty will be a better phone, then Apple will release its updated phone and software which will make it better. Then LG or someone else will release a phone and A will respond.
That's how the game is played, and that's why Apple is prob holding back with the software so they can improve it to match the new features coming out on the competition.
Thats how the games played? By holding back functionality to suit the company instead of giving it to the customer all in one?
Of course it is.
Apple held off on talking about Leopard until Vista was done enough so Microsoft couldn't really ape their ideas.
Apple also kept mum on the iPhone until it hit FCC, look at all that functionality they held back so no one else would ape their ideas.
Why would Apple drop everything before the other company's release their competition when they can wait a month or three longer and not have their ideas mimicked. Plus this gives Apple a little longer to really polish their update. Apple said they would do software updates, they never said it would all happen in the first 6 months.
Lets assume they drop an update in March and then the next major one won't happen for another 8 months.
Apple can give you smaller updates every two or so months which makes you feel like progress is continually beiing made on the platform between major updates, or Apple could give you all the March stuff in November and then you'd have a whole year to feel like the platform stagnated.
Bavlondon2, just so you know, I read the first sentence of your previous posts then skipped everything else. Perhaps for you it's the attitude "if the iPhone is so high and mighty" is an attempt to turn this into a child's "mine's better than yours" topic. To at least some of us here in the forums the topic is about the "slow release of iPhone updates", and I merely spoke up as to how relatively speaking the releases are going pretty fast. Let’s try not to take things too seriously here, it’s a cell phone.
If bavlondon2 wants to give links and reciting text and examples to show how one cell phone compares to another - fine - but as THT said - the world's a big market with numerous cultures and tastes and combined with what I said - to each their own.
Hey, bavlondon2, how about you look at our sneakers and tell us how much they don't sell in the Amazon jungle? Is what we wear popular everywhere, in every country? What’s our favorite restaurant – I guess it doesn’t hold a candle to another one you know, right? We should worry about how your marketing and business rating system defines where we shop and what we buy, right?
Is our watch water resistant or sync with our computers? Does our car have GPS and a voice system keyed into our cell phone? What's the storage compacity on our mp3 player and can it record up to an hour of voice audio? Does it taste great or is it less filling, hehe?
Oh my goodness, nobody look now but I think bavlondon2 will say my toaster sucks because there's twenty countries that don't import it.
Sales figures are helpful for companies chasing market share. A lot of people think Market-Share is important. Apple, you might have noticed, goes for profitability instead.
The two are different.
Dell has more market share. Apple has more profitability. Who has the biggest Market Cap?
Oh right, being more profitable is really just greed. I keep forgetting that.
I think you?re on to something there , Carniphage. I?ve got a question, though. When any one of us tries to make more money, such as asking for a raise or getting a second job, are we being greedy? Maybe things magically change for a business. I get confused some times.
If though iphone as you say will evolve and catch up on what they dont have then good for them, good for them as more people will buy their phones.
You're missing my point. If you haven't noticed, there is no such thing as a phone with every feature that everyone wants. That's why I'm tired of the iPhone complaints about missing features. Every phone will fall victim to missing features.
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Your points though about the N95 8gb are a bit silly. The SD card slot thing could be also said for the 8GB iphone.
Yeah, but it's a feature somebody wants and the N95-8GB sucks because it doesn't have it. On the opposite end with the normal N95 with microSD slot, well, for $700, they better give me at least a 2 GB microSD card.
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Its not a business device so whats the need for a qwerty keyboard?
So one can input data faster with less frustration. That's a no brainer. And the N95 sucks because it doesn't have it.
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And who in their right mind would make a slider with a 4 inch screen?
Nokia N810. The infinitude of HTC models. Samsung F700. They try with their 2.8-3" screens, but they just are skimping on the screen sizes and ripping me off if they don't at least have a 3.5" screen. There's even room in the N95 to put a 4" screen. Nokia even has a clamshell with a 4"-ish screen. Too bad it costs $1000.
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As for flash, well iphone does support proper flash yet eithr.
I wasn't talking about the iPhone, I was talking about the N95 only supporting craptacular Flash lite 2.x. Real web browsing should support Adobe Flash 9. It obviously sucks if it doesn't have that.
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I get your points about the email ect....but if you know all that then surley you have to agree that it was a silly move to leave out basic things like video recording, especially at a time when makes are releasing phones marketed around the concept of video recording.
I don't know what you're smoking. Video recording? No not in the USA. In the USA we like QWERTY's and push email. 5 MP cameras and video recording capabilities on a phone is silly. My cheapo Aiptek A-HD does both better, and it only cost me $120!
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And with such a big screen it would be an awesome feature. I guess we can only hope that iphone gets more specs in its next installments but if you really want to talk about features if you put a list of what the phone can do for the n95 8gb and iphone side by side which one do you think would come out on top? n95 8gb of course
Sure. We could do the feature comparison. I rate web browsing and video viewing as the most important feature above everything else in such a device. I don't SMS much at all, don't MMS at all, don't need to take pictures (Canon Powershot S2 IS does fine for me when needed), don't take video (Aiptek A-HD does fine for me when needed), and don't need GPS at all. So, I know which one I would have more fun with. Also, I'd rather have the device in my back pocket, and I really don't like sitting on a 0.8" brick.
As for the N95 having so many features that it opens up its potential market? Well, at $700 unlocked, it doesn't sound like a big market to me, especially in the USA. And it doesn't have a nice 3.5" or bigger screen.
Sarcasm aside, the point with Apple products is that it isn't about featuritis, it's about having fun using what you have. That's their DNA. Ease-of-use and pleasure-of-use are features in of themselves that aren't on spec sheets. If the iPhone does the features it touts well, is easy and fun to use, well, Apple will have a marketing vector and niche for which to sell it, and do it very profitably. Does this mean world domination? Obviously not. They even say as they only want 1% of the total cell phone market, a wealthy 1%, but only 1%.
And if the iphone is so high and mighty then why is it being outsold in the UK by the LG Viewty?
...
It has also emerged that Apple have blocked the iPhone sales figures from been reported by Gfk, the UK research agency. Gfk collect EPOS (Electronic point of sale) data from all the major UK mobile phone retailers, then produces reports which are commercially available. As far as I?m aware this is first time that a mobile phone handset?s sales have been blocked, again, I wonder why?
Just wait another month for Apple's financial report. We should know how many iPhones have been sold in Europe. No need to get conspiratorial, especially with the sales strawman you've built with the Viewty.
Quote:
1. The Viewty is a better phone ? The Viewty has a 5 mega-pixel camera vs. the iPhone?s 2mp, The Viewty is 3g enabled (HSDPA) which is way faster than the iPhone (2.5g), The Viewty has a Xenon flash so it can take pictures at night. I could go on but it will take up too much space, you will be better off reading this: 51 Reason not to buy the iPhone.
Do you want to do 51 reasons not to buy an LG Viewty? I bet you it'll be easy, and I haven't even read the 51 reasons not to buy the iPhone link.
Quote:
2. The Viewty is available on all the major phone networks - 02, Orange, Vodafone, T-mobile, Virgin Mobile, and 3, unlike the iPhone that is just available on O2.
3. The Viewty is available on a 12 month contract ? unlike the iPhone, which has a minimum contract length of 18 months.
4. The Viewty is a lot cheaper ? The Viewty is FREE on an 12 month O2 contract (200 mins and 200 texts per month), for £30 per month, plus £55 cashback, so the total price over the contract length is £305, whereas the cheapest iPhone contract will cost you £899, (£269 for the handset, plus 18 months x £35 for O2 200 price plan, 200 mins and 200 texts. Even if you compare the 18 month contracts the iPhone is 122% more expensive than the Viewty. (Viewty FREE on 18 02 month contract (200 mins + 200 text), £25 p/m minus £45 cashback = £405 total over contract length)
I bet you Apple will make more money off its European iPhone sales than LG does with its European Viewty sales. Apple may make more money out of its European iPhone sales than LG does with Viewty sales in total.
Quote:
LG Viewty to be launched in the USA?
So Apple better look out because if LG launch the Viewty in the US they will have a very serious competitor. Will the Viewty outsell the iPhone in Apple?s own country? Probably, I would have thought there are a lot of Americans who?d want a better phone than the iPhone, for a cheaper price, and one which is available on networks other than just AT&T.
I actually like the LG Viewty, and definitely think it should be made available, free with 2 year contract no less, in the USA. It'll be a nice kick in the pants for Apple. Even the HTC Touch is doing pretty well. Apple needs to be pushed with the iPhone as I'm waiting for a UMTS/HSPA version with at least 16 GB storage.
Btw, it seems that the way you talk abot the Viewty, it's really a better camera than the iPhone, not a better phone. I don't think that'll hurt Apple's iPhone market. Low price certainty will though, and it'll be nice if the cost of entry for the iPhone got down to $200. Not to mention driving the price of umlimited data plans to <$10 a month either. I'd take the cheaper service over cheaper phone any day.
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iPhone won?t reach its potential
The iPhone interface and usability are amazing but Apple?s greed has resulted in the iPhone sales falling way short of its potential. The iPhone could have been market leader but when it costs so much, is only available on one network, and is only available in certain shops and websites, it is never going to reach its true potential.
Do go thinking that you are smarter than the people running this or that company, because you're not. Chances are, they are just as smart as you, and have a lot more experience with these sorts of things. The point here is that I really don't think you know what Apple's motives and plans are with the iPhone.
The only thing we do know is 10 million iPhones in 2008 (or 1% of cell phone sales in 2008). That's really about it.
It's obviously not fair to compare the web-browser in the N95 to the iPhone. It would be like comparing ...say... one of those little blue invalid carriages to a proper car. Not that I have anything against specialist disabled modes of transport. They are very efficient and cost-effective. Well done to Reliant, or whoever it is that makes them. And well done to Nokia too. A really brave little effort.
I presume you don't know the browser on Nokia S60 based phones is running Apple's WebKit browser framework. It should render pretty much identically to the iPhone.
Sales figures are helpful for companies chasing market share. A lot of people think Market-Share is important. Apple, you might have noticed, goes for profitability instead.
That's usually true except when Jobs announced the iPhone he talked about capturing 1% of the mobile phone market in 2008. Clearly their concern then was market share, not profitability.
I presume you don't know the browser on Nokia S60 based phones is running Apple's WebKit browser framework. It should render pretty much identically to the iPhone.
LOL!
Have you seen them both?
If Mobile Safari on the iPhone was a car it'd be a Corolla.
If the browser on the N95 were a car, it would be a wheelchair.
If Mobile Safari on the iPhone was a car it'd be a Corolla.
If the browser on the N95 were a car, it would be a wheelchair.
Actually, my dad has an N95. I compared it to my iPhone. The pages do render the same, with the exception of the iPhone having much nicer font smoothing. But layout is identical, once you've turned off "Small screen mode" on the Nokia.
The way that the iPhone wins is the ability to zoom/pan the page with ease. Navigation's a lot faster.
If Mobile Safari on the iPhone was a car it'd be a Corolla.
If the browser on the N95 were a car, it would be a wheelchair.
So i take it youve used them both? They are pretty much identical in terms of what you seen on screen.
All this "I dont use that becasue I have this to do that" thas bollocks, this is 2008 and its all about convergence devices. Im sure there are many PMP players that play video better than the iphone so why not just get one of those? Same for mp3 playback, even the Nokia 5610 outdoes the iphone in RMA testing, a Sony NW S700 offers better playback. The point im making is that if they want to get maximum profitability then they should add more specs at least to what other phones are capable of, if they did then they wouldnt be a laughing stock in the UK let alone Europe.
Apple are just intent on charging you for everything (mp3 ringtones wtf?), closing things off, forcing you to use itunes to get your content on their. Its nice on the eyes but in terms of sheer content they still lose out to even Motorola who are plummeting like never before.
You talk about no one liking Nokias. They release a new phone more or less every other month. They are the proven unmactehd kings of making mobile phones. They sell more mid range phones than iphones are sold several hundered times over, so wheres the prfitability going there?
The mobile market is differnt to the MP3 market, its not the same as what they did with the ipod. People know what they want more, which is why it was the huge bonanza in the UK like Apple predicted.
As for video recording well im not American but I cant believe for a minute that this isnt a feature wanted by anyone in the states. The N93 first offered 30fps vga video what 3 years ago and iphone doesnt even soot video period? WTF? Actually you may find this extract interesting, I was just looking at trailers for new films, one in particular - Cloverfield. Heres what one said on Wiki:
"Reeves explained that the pedestrians documenting the severed head of the Statue of Liberty with the camera phones was reflective of the contemporary period. "Cloverfield very much speaks to the fear and anxieties of our time, how we live our lives"
Key point "camera phones was reflective of the contemporary period." ie - dont try and speak for everyone when you say no one uses such a feature. Im sure Nokia have sold moew phones than Apple have sold computers and ipods put together so they know what they are doing. - Yet another exmaple of stupid apple fanboyistic brainwashing.
"I dont use this feature", "it doesnt matter how many features it has as long as the 3 that it does look nice when you use them". Ive never heard so much malarky in my life. No wonder the American phone market is moving at a snails pace.
Call me when you get a network which offers decent coverage on 3.6MBps HSDPA.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Amorya
Actually, my dad has an N95. I compared it to my iPhone. The pages do render the same, with the exception of the iPhone having much nicer font smoothing. But layout is identical, once you've turned off "Small screen mode" on the Nokia.
The way that the iPhone wins is the ability to zoom/pan the page with ease. Navigation's a lot faster.
Amorya
Thank you!!!
But yes you are the right. Iphone no doubt comes out on top, nothing was ever going to touch it given the mix of such a big high quality screen and great browser. Its one of its saving graces infact.
Yup. See Amoya's post. The only difference is in the UI although if you're lucky/unlucky enough to hit a page with a Flash-lite compatible flash element or a bit of Java, the N95 will render that too whereas the iPhone won't.
Font smoothing in Symbian seems to be a complete bag of spanners as I find some fonts smooth and others don't.
Theres nothing to touch the iphone in terms of browsing we can all agree in that but full flash support I hope will be sorted by the next 4 months or so.
They are identical. Apart from the screen size, font rendering, ease of navigation, ease of text entry, speed of rendering... but apart from that ... identical!
They are identical. Apart from the screen size, font rendering, ease of navigation, ease of text entry, speed of rendering... but apart from that ... identical!
C.
They're running exactly the same rendering engine and javascript library. Nokia's S60 Webkit build is a fork of Apples. Don't confuse the engine with the whole browser and the UI. I wasn't contesting Mobile Safari's superior UI, just that the actual pages will render pretty much identically.
Comments
To darngooddesign and bavlondon2, along with any other critics about the iPhone, the iPhone suits me better than any other cell phone on the market and it will get better. That doesn?t mean I?m trying to convince you to buy one. Love it or hate it, to each their own.
But I?m not going to argue over the value of the iPhone compared to other cell phones any more than I would waste time arguing over what?s the best car or television to buy, as that depends on each person and what?s best for them.
Dec. 14, 2007
LG Viewty Notches Phenomenal Performance in First 5 Weeks
Seoul, Korea, December 17, 2007 ? LG Electronics has announced that its LG Viewty featuring five-megapixel camera phone (model: LG-KU990) has recorded impressive sales performance of over 310,000 units since its introduction to the European market.
With its innovative functions and distinctive design, LG Viewty, the professional-level camera phone earned extensive media and consumer attention even before its launch. The high-tech phone has achieved even wider acclaim since entering markets across Europe including UK, France and Germany notching around 6,300 units daily. This number exceeded the initial records of LG?s successful earlier models, LG Chocolate and LG Shine comparing with the same period.
The secret behind the successful sales performance can be credited to the astounding blend of technology and features that LG has packed into this handset. An advanced, full-LCD touch screen complements a rich array of camera features allowing consumers to enjoy high quality image, editing and image-sharing. All of the rich features of LG Viewty surpassing those of any handset currently on the market have been designed to bring maximum benefit to consumers who place a priority on their viewing experience.
Stylish design also factors into the Viewty?s popularity, as LG has always placed a premium on design as proven through LG Chocolate and LG Shine. LG Viewty has now achieved a harmony of high technology and sensational style by winning the 2008 iF product design award.
?We are thrilled about the immense interest from consumers. In some countries, our product supply is even running low. This impressive result is attributable to the perfect balance between technology and design developed based on consumer insight,? said Dr. Skott Ahn, President & CEO of LG Electronics Mobile Communications Company. ?LG Viewty?s success is a significant achievement for LG as it is the first product in a high-technology line of handset at LG Electronics. With the confidence gained from our brisk sales activity, we will continue to improve areas of both features and premium design.?
Sales of LG Viewty are expected to continuously grow throughout the world since it has currently launched into the Asian and Middle East markets and been spotlighted as the best Christmas gift item for packing a sleek handset together with a high-quality digital camera.
For more information,
Please visit LG ?Viewty? Microsite: http://viewty.lgmobile.com
http://www.lge.com/about/press_relea...E%7CMENU.jhtml
LG has announced that they have sold 310,000 LG Viewty handsets since launch 5 weeks ago. I believe that this means the LG Viewty is outselling the iPhone in Europe, even though the Viewty hasn?t been supported with the massive PR and advertising budget of the iPhone. Apple, on the other hand have been very quiet with regards to their sales figures in Europe, I wonder why?
Not that Apple are ordinarily so reticent. On the 30th Oct 2007, a few days after the launch of the new Mac operating system, the Apple PR machine released a statement proudly stating that ?Apple Sells Two Million Copies of Mac OS X Leopard in First Weekend.? Since the European launch of the iPhone, however, on the 9th Nov, we haven?t heard a thing from the usually very vocal Apple.
What we do know is that the iPhone launch in the UK was a flop, considering all the hype and advertising £s which were spent. Since its launch on 9th November, official reports from O2 have said that ?tens of thousands? of iPhone have been sold in the UK, one of largest European markets, quashing the silly numbers which were banded around like 100,000 sold in the first weekend, yeh right!
It has also emerged that Apple have blocked the iPhone sales figures from been reported by Gfk, the UK research agency. Gfk collect EPOS (Electronic point of sale) data from all the major UK mobile phone retailers, then produces reports which are commercially available. As far as I?m aware this is first time that a mobile phone handset?s sales have been blocked, again, I wonder why?
Overall, there are no official figures available, but if the iPhone has only sold tens of thousands in the UK, it seems unlikely they have sold over 310,000 across Europe.
Why is the Viewty outselling the iPhone? Well?
1. The Viewty is a better phone ? The Viewty has a 5 mega-pixel camera vs. the iPhone?s 2mp, The Viewty is 3g enabled (HSDPA) which is way faster than the iPhone (2.5g), The Viewty has a Xenon flash so it can take pictures at night. I could go on but it will take up too much space, you will be better off reading this: 51 Reason not to buy the iPhone.
2. The Viewty is available on all the major phone networks - 02, Orange, Vodafone, T-mobile, Virgin Mobile, and 3, unlike the iPhone that is just available on O2.
3. The Viewty is available on a 12 month contract ? unlike the iPhone, which has a minimum contract length of 18 months.
4. The Viewty is a lot cheaper ? The Viewty is FREE on an 12 month O2 contract (200 mins and 200 texts per month), for £30 per month, plus £55 cashback, so the total price over the contract length is £305, whereas the cheapest iPhone contract will cost you £899, (£269 for the handset, plus 18 months x £35 for O2 200 price plan, 200 mins and 200 texts. Even if you compare the 18 month contracts the iPhone is 122% more expensive than the Viewty. (Viewty FREE on 18 02 month contract (200 mins + 200 text), £25 p/m minus £45 cashback = £405 total over contract length)
LG Viewty to be launched in the USA?
So Apple better look out because if LG launch the Viewty in the US they will have a very serious competitor. Will the Viewty outsell the iPhone in Apple?s own country? Probably, I would have thought there are a lot of Americans who?d want a better phone than the iPhone, for a cheaper price, and one which is available on networks other than just AT&T.
iPhone won?t reach its potential
The iPhone interface and usability are amazing but Apple?s greed has resulted in the iPhone sales falling way short of its potential. The iPhone could have been market leader but when it costs so much, is only available on one network, and is only available in certain shops and websites, it is never going to reach its true potential.
Well said, THT.
To darngooddesign and bavlondon2, along with any other critics about the iPhone, the iPhone suits me better than any other cell phone on the market and it will get better. That doesn?t mean I?m trying to convince you to buy one. Love it or hate it, to each their own.
But I?m not going to argue over the value of the iPhone compared to other cell phones any more than I would waste time arguing over what?s the best car or television to buy, as that depends on each person and what?s best for them.
Before you get happy jumping to conclusions. I've had my 8GB since launch day and hacked it to provide what apple left off; however, some things can't be added by anyone other than Apple and they are sorely missing. All that being said I still value what it offers me higher than 3g and a better camera. I'm willing to be patient for what Apple will hopefully give us. I also didn't interpret the software upgrades to mean everything has to happen in 6 months, and it looks like they're giving us a bunch of good stuff in 113. I also think Apple is waiting to see what the first round of killers offer software-wise before they drop OS2.0 on us next year.
So Apple better look out because if LG launch the Viewty in the US they will have a very serious competitor. Will the Viewty outsell the iPhone in Apple?s own country? Probably, I would have thought there are a lot of Americans who?d want a better phone than the iPhone, for a cheaper price, and one which is available on networks other than just AT&T.
Yeah initially the Viewty will be a better phone, then Apple will release its updated phone and software which will make it better. Then LG or someone else will release a phone and A will respond.
That's how the game is played, and that's why Apple is prob holding back with the software so they can improve it to match the new features coming out on the competition.
Thats how the games played? By holding back functionality to suit the company instead of giving it to the customer all in one?
Of course it is.
Apple held off on talking about Leopard until Vista was done enough so Microsoft couldn't really ape their ideas.
Apple also kept mum on the iPhone until it hit FCC, look at all that functionality they held back so no one else would ape their ideas.
Why would Apple drop everything before the other company's release their competition when they can wait a month or three longer and not have their ideas mimicked. Plus this gives Apple a little longer to really polish their update. Apple said they would do software updates, they never said it would all happen in the first 6 months.
Lets assume they drop an update in March and then the next major one won't happen for another 8 months.
Apple can give you smaller updates every two or so months which makes you feel like progress is continually beiing made on the platform between major updates, or Apple could give you all the March stuff in November and then you'd have a whole year to feel like the platform stagnated.
If bavlondon2 wants to give links and reciting text and examples to show how one cell phone compares to another - fine - but as THT said - the world's a big market with numerous cultures and tastes and combined with what I said - to each their own.
Hey, bavlondon2, how about you look at our sneakers and tell us how much they don't sell in the Amazon jungle? Is what we wear popular everywhere, in every country? What’s our favorite restaurant – I guess it doesn’t hold a candle to another one you know, right? We should worry about how your marketing and business rating system defines where we shop and what we buy, right?
Is our watch water resistant or sync with our computers? Does our car have GPS and a voice system keyed into our cell phone? What's the storage compacity on our mp3 player and can it record up to an hour of voice audio? Does it taste great or is it less filling, hehe?
Oh my goodness, nobody look now but I think bavlondon2 will say my toaster sucks because there's twenty countries that don't import it.
Sales figures are helpful for companies chasing market share. A lot of people think Market-Share is important. Apple, you might have noticed, goes for profitability instead.
The two are different.
Dell has more market share. Apple has more profitability. Who has the biggest Market Cap?
Oh right, being more profitable is really just greed. I keep forgetting that.
If though iphone as you say will evolve and catch up on what they dont have then good for them, good for them as more people will buy their phones.
You're missing my point. If you haven't noticed, there is no such thing as a phone with every feature that everyone wants. That's why I'm tired of the iPhone complaints about missing features. Every phone will fall victim to missing features.
Your points though about the N95 8gb are a bit silly. The SD card slot thing could be also said for the 8GB iphone.
Yeah, but it's a feature somebody wants and the N95-8GB sucks because it doesn't have it. On the opposite end with the normal N95 with microSD slot, well, for $700, they better give me at least a 2 GB microSD card.
Its not a business device so whats the need for a qwerty keyboard?
So one can input data faster with less frustration. That's a no brainer. And the N95 sucks because it doesn't have it.
And who in their right mind would make a slider with a 4 inch screen?
Nokia N810. The infinitude of HTC models. Samsung F700. They try with their 2.8-3" screens, but they just are skimping on the screen sizes and ripping me off if they don't at least have a 3.5" screen. There's even room in the N95 to put a 4" screen. Nokia even has a clamshell with a 4"-ish screen. Too bad it costs $1000.
As for flash, well iphone does support proper flash yet eithr.
I wasn't talking about the iPhone, I was talking about the N95 only supporting craptacular Flash lite 2.x. Real web browsing should support Adobe Flash 9. It obviously sucks if it doesn't have that.
I get your points about the email ect....but if you know all that then surley you have to agree that it was a silly move to leave out basic things like video recording, especially at a time when makes are releasing phones marketed around the concept of video recording.
I don't know what you're smoking. Video recording? No not in the USA. In the USA we like QWERTY's and push email. 5 MP cameras and video recording capabilities on a phone is silly. My cheapo Aiptek A-HD does both better, and it only cost me $120!
And with such a big screen it would be an awesome feature. I guess we can only hope that iphone gets more specs in its next installments but if you really want to talk about features if you put a list of what the phone can do for the n95 8gb and iphone side by side which one do you think would come out on top? n95 8gb of course
Sure. We could do the feature comparison. I rate web browsing and video viewing as the most important feature above everything else in such a device. I don't SMS much at all, don't MMS at all, don't need to take pictures (Canon Powershot S2 IS does fine for me when needed), don't take video (Aiptek A-HD does fine for me when needed), and don't need GPS at all. So, I know which one I would have more fun with. Also, I'd rather have the device in my back pocket, and I really don't like sitting on a 0.8" brick.
As for the N95 having so many features that it opens up its potential market? Well, at $700 unlocked, it doesn't sound like a big market to me, especially in the USA. And it doesn't have a nice 3.5" or bigger screen.
Sarcasm aside, the point with Apple products is that it isn't about featuritis, it's about having fun using what you have. That's their DNA. Ease-of-use and pleasure-of-use are features in of themselves that aren't on spec sheets. If the iPhone does the features it touts well, is easy and fun to use, well, Apple will have a marketing vector and niche for which to sell it, and do it very profitably. Does this mean world domination? Obviously not. They even say as they only want 1% of the total cell phone market, a wealthy 1%, but only 1%.
And if the iphone is so high and mighty then why is it being outsold in the UK by the LG Viewty?
...
It has also emerged that Apple have blocked the iPhone sales figures from been reported by Gfk, the UK research agency. Gfk collect EPOS (Electronic point of sale) data from all the major UK mobile phone retailers, then produces reports which are commercially available. As far as I?m aware this is first time that a mobile phone handset?s sales have been blocked, again, I wonder why?
Just wait another month for Apple's financial report. We should know how many iPhones have been sold in Europe. No need to get conspiratorial, especially with the sales strawman you've built with the Viewty.
1. The Viewty is a better phone ? The Viewty has a 5 mega-pixel camera vs. the iPhone?s 2mp, The Viewty is 3g enabled (HSDPA) which is way faster than the iPhone (2.5g), The Viewty has a Xenon flash so it can take pictures at night. I could go on but it will take up too much space, you will be better off reading this: 51 Reason not to buy the iPhone.
Do you want to do 51 reasons not to buy an LG Viewty? I bet you it'll be easy, and I haven't even read the 51 reasons not to buy the iPhone link.
2. The Viewty is available on all the major phone networks - 02, Orange, Vodafone, T-mobile, Virgin Mobile, and 3, unlike the iPhone that is just available on O2.
3. The Viewty is available on a 12 month contract ? unlike the iPhone, which has a minimum contract length of 18 months.
4. The Viewty is a lot cheaper ? The Viewty is FREE on an 12 month O2 contract (200 mins and 200 texts per month), for £30 per month, plus £55 cashback, so the total price over the contract length is £305, whereas the cheapest iPhone contract will cost you £899, (£269 for the handset, plus 18 months x £35 for O2 200 price plan, 200 mins and 200 texts. Even if you compare the 18 month contracts the iPhone is 122% more expensive than the Viewty. (Viewty FREE on 18 02 month contract (200 mins + 200 text), £25 p/m minus £45 cashback = £405 total over contract length)
I bet you Apple will make more money off its European iPhone sales than LG does with its European Viewty sales. Apple may make more money out of its European iPhone sales than LG does with Viewty sales in total.
LG Viewty to be launched in the USA?
So Apple better look out because if LG launch the Viewty in the US they will have a very serious competitor. Will the Viewty outsell the iPhone in Apple?s own country? Probably, I would have thought there are a lot of Americans who?d want a better phone than the iPhone, for a cheaper price, and one which is available on networks other than just AT&T.
I actually like the LG Viewty, and definitely think it should be made available, free with 2 year contract no less, in the USA. It'll be a nice kick in the pants for Apple. Even the HTC Touch is doing pretty well. Apple needs to be pushed with the iPhone as I'm waiting for a UMTS/HSPA version with at least 16 GB storage.
Btw, it seems that the way you talk abot the Viewty, it's really a better camera than the iPhone, not a better phone. I don't think that'll hurt Apple's iPhone market. Low price certainty will though, and it'll be nice if the cost of entry for the iPhone got down to $200. Not to mention driving the price of umlimited data plans to <$10 a month either. I'd take the cheaper service over cheaper phone any day.
iPhone won?t reach its potential
The iPhone interface and usability are amazing but Apple?s greed has resulted in the iPhone sales falling way short of its potential. The iPhone could have been market leader but when it costs so much, is only available on one network, and is only available in certain shops and websites, it is never going to reach its true potential.
Do go thinking that you are smarter than the people running this or that company, because you're not. Chances are, they are just as smart as you, and have a lot more experience with these sorts of things. The point here is that I really don't think you know what Apple's motives and plans are with the iPhone.
The only thing we do know is 10 million iPhones in 2008 (or 1% of cell phone sales in 2008). That's really about it.
It's obviously not fair to compare the web-browser in the N95 to the iPhone. It would be like comparing ...say... one of those little blue invalid carriages to a proper car. Not that I have anything against specialist disabled modes of transport. They are very efficient and cost-effective. Well done to Reliant, or whoever it is that makes them. And well done to Nokia too. A really brave little effort.
I presume you don't know the browser on Nokia S60 based phones is running Apple's WebKit browser framework. It should render pretty much identically to the iPhone.
Bav,
Sales figures are helpful for companies chasing market share. A lot of people think Market-Share is important. Apple, you might have noticed, goes for profitability instead.
That's usually true except when Jobs announced the iPhone he talked about capturing 1% of the mobile phone market in 2008. Clearly their concern then was market share, not profitability.
I presume you don't know the browser on Nokia S60 based phones is running Apple's WebKit browser framework. It should render pretty much identically to the iPhone.
LOL!
Have you seen them both?
If Mobile Safari on the iPhone was a car it'd be a Corolla.
If the browser on the N95 were a car, it would be a wheelchair.
LOL!
Have you seen them both?
If Mobile Safari on the iPhone was a car it'd be a Corolla.
If the browser on the N95 were a car, it would be a wheelchair.
Actually, my dad has an N95. I compared it to my iPhone. The pages do render the same, with the exception of the iPhone having much nicer font smoothing. But layout is identical, once you've turned off "Small screen mode" on the Nokia.
The way that the iPhone wins is the ability to zoom/pan the page with ease. Navigation's a lot faster.
Amorya
LOL!
Have you seen them both?
If Mobile Safari on the iPhone was a car it'd be a Corolla.
If the browser on the N95 were a car, it would be a wheelchair.
So i take it youve used them both? They are pretty much identical in terms of what you seen on screen.
All this "I dont use that becasue I have this to do that" thas bollocks, this is 2008 and its all about convergence devices. Im sure there are many PMP players that play video better than the iphone so why not just get one of those? Same for mp3 playback, even the Nokia 5610 outdoes the iphone in RMA testing, a Sony NW S700 offers better playback. The point im making is that if they want to get maximum profitability then they should add more specs at least to what other phones are capable of, if they did then they wouldnt be a laughing stock in the UK let alone Europe.
Apple are just intent on charging you for everything (mp3 ringtones wtf?), closing things off, forcing you to use itunes to get your content on their. Its nice on the eyes but in terms of sheer content they still lose out to even Motorola who are plummeting like never before.
You talk about no one liking Nokias. They release a new phone more or less every other month. They are the proven unmactehd kings of making mobile phones. They sell more mid range phones than iphones are sold several hundered times over, so wheres the prfitability going there?
The mobile market is differnt to the MP3 market, its not the same as what they did with the ipod. People know what they want more, which is why it was the huge bonanza in the UK like Apple predicted.
As for video recording well im not American but I cant believe for a minute that this isnt a feature wanted by anyone in the states. The N93 first offered 30fps vga video what 3 years ago and iphone doesnt even soot video period? WTF? Actually you may find this extract interesting, I was just looking at trailers for new films, one in particular - Cloverfield. Heres what one said on Wiki:
"Reeves explained that the pedestrians documenting the severed head of the Statue of Liberty with the camera phones was reflective of the contemporary period. "Cloverfield very much speaks to the fear and anxieties of our time, how we live our lives"
Key point "camera phones was reflective of the contemporary period." ie - dont try and speak for everyone when you say no one uses such a feature. Im sure Nokia have sold moew phones than Apple have sold computers and ipods put together so they know what they are doing. - Yet another exmaple of stupid apple fanboyistic brainwashing.
"I dont use this feature", "it doesnt matter how many features it has as long as the 3 that it does look nice when you use them". Ive never heard so much malarky in my life. No wonder the American phone market is moving at a snails pace.
Call me when you get a network which offers decent coverage on 3.6MBps HSDPA.
Actually, my dad has an N95. I compared it to my iPhone. The pages do render the same, with the exception of the iPhone having much nicer font smoothing. But layout is identical, once you've turned off "Small screen mode" on the Nokia.
The way that the iPhone wins is the ability to zoom/pan the page with ease. Navigation's a lot faster.
Amorya
Thank you!!!
But yes you are the right. Iphone no doubt comes out on top, nothing was ever going to touch it given the mix of such a big high quality screen and great browser. Its one of its saving graces infact.
Have you seen them both?
Yup. See Amoya's post. The only difference is in the UI although if you're lucky/unlucky enough to hit a page with a Flash-lite compatible flash element or a bit of Java, the N95 will render that too whereas the iPhone won't.
Font smoothing in Symbian seems to be a complete bag of spanners as I find some fonts smooth and others don't.
C.
They are identical. Apart from the screen size, font rendering, ease of navigation, ease of text entry, speed of rendering... but apart from that ... identical!
C.
They're running exactly the same rendering engine and javascript library. Nokia's S60 Webkit build is a fork of Apples. Don't confuse the engine with the whole browser and the UI. I wasn't contesting Mobile Safari's superior UI, just that the actual pages will render pretty much identically.