Which format is technically better is irrelevant. In case you haven't noticed, the market, not science and technology, is what drives the world that we live in. With that in mind, blu-ray has two big problems...
Irrelevant to you, but not to others.
Quote:
1) HD DVD is drastically cheaper to produce... the authoring tools are out there... and the players was WAY cheaper for the consumer to buy. Toshiba has also had a few "door crasher" sales selling players for $99 with 5 free movies. They sold something close to 100,000 of them on black friday.
Meaningless! When technologies are new, they always cost more. Does that mean we shouldn't adopt them? Of course not. Prices are dropping rapidly.
My first CD burner, a 4 speed, cost over $1,000. The disks cost $10 a piece.
When I bought my Digital Audio Mac, with the Pioneer 2x DVD burner, the burner was going for $1,000 externally, and the disks, again, cost $10.
Right now, you can get a Blu-Ray burner for $500, and the disks again cost $10.
What do you think will happen a year from now?
Quote:
2) Sony, apparently, refuses to allow adult content on blu-ray... or at least... they will have no part in manufacturing of such content. Which is understandable, but like it or not, the adult market brings in significantly more money than the mainstream market. Something like 15 billion a year? Like it or not, you can't ignore the adult market.
That's no longer true. Adult content is coming out on Blu-Ray.
Quote:
For the record... I would prefer blu-ray to win... but market forces are what will decide this... not merits... or Apple. Actually... what I would prefer is that we skip straight to HD downloads and forget this who stupid war being waged over little round pieces of plastic.
Screw HD-DVD.
More than twice the number of movies are being sold in the BD format than in HD-DVD.
If Apple has one, that ratio will go much higher, as it's been shown that Mac owners spend far more on music, Tv, and movies in digital download form. than PC owners
Steve Jobs is the majority Disney stockholder and Disney is exclusively Blu-Ray. Gee I wonder why Apple's gone Blu-Ray?
I think Disney made their choice before Steve joined. This is just a rumor, so we don't know of Apple chose a side yet. They are effectively in both coalitions right now.
Porn industry is going for the cheaper of the 2 formats- HD DVD. Blu-ray may be questionably better but more expensive per disc.
The only numbers I've seen from a replicator is that both formats are about $2/disc packaged. HD DVD is cheaper by a dime. It's not prohibitively more expensive as proponents make it seem.
Steve Jobs is the majority Disney stockholder and Disney is exclusively Blu-Ray. Gee I wonder why Apple's gone Blu-Ray?
Apple are currently a Blu-Ray supporter in name only though. Disney have declined to answer questions about being paid to support Blu-Ray. I doubt very much that Steve Jobs cares which format wins - Apple are all about selling content on iTunes - and if Apple did start selling computers with Blu-Ray drives, would it really make much difference to the format war?
Now imagine an Apple TV, capable of playing HD-DVD or Blu-Ray DVDs at 1080p, or iTunes content at 720p. Apple sells more kit and more content. The studios can still sell DVDs at full price because they are higher resolution than the online content, but they have an extra sales channel for those who want the convenience. If the price is right, format fence-sitters are more likely to take the plunge. Stimulate a market for dual format players and both formats survive, still competing to win business from studios though it no longer matters to customers which format they buy their DVDs in. It seems to me that most of the main players could be pretty happy with this.
Apple are currently a Blu-Ray supporter in name only though. Disney have declined to answer questions about being paid to support Blu-Ray. I doubt very much that Steve Jobs cares which format wins - Apple are all about selling content on iTunes - and if Apple did start selling computers with Blu-Ray drives, would it really make much difference to the format war?
Now imagine an Apple TV, capable of playing HD-DVD or Blu-Ray DVDs at 1080p, or iTunes content at 720p. Apple sells more kit and more content. The studios can still sell DVDs at full price because they are higher resolution than the online content, but they have an extra sales channel for those who want the convenience. If the price is right, format fence-sitters are more likely to take the plunge. Stimulate a market for dual format players and both formats survive, still competing to win business from studios though it no longer matters to customers which format they buy their DVDs in. It seems to me that most of the main players could be pretty happy with this.
The players? What about the consumers that got burnt on the first Apple TV? Should they get a trade-in? Rebate?
Disney/Pixar right now only releases in Blu-Ray. Trust me, he cares what format wins. He does not want Microsoft to win anything anymore. He won't be happy until crushes as much juice out of Microsoft as he possible can. It's a sad modus operandi but unfortunately a reality.
WRONG- Porn is going for the cheap. Blu-ray is more expensive to reproduce- everyone knows this except apparently you. DVD plants can be retrofitted to manufacture HD DVD discs. Blu Ray need new plants created from scratch. How could you not know this?
The only numbers I've seen from a replicator is that both formats are about $2/disc packaged. HD DVD is cheaper by a dime. It's not prohibitively more expensive as proponents make it seem.
Not in the cost to the consumer! Manufacturing costs.
The players? What about the consumers that got burnt on the first Apple TV? Should they get a trade-in? Rebate?
There aren't very many of those though are there. Besides, the first Apple TV went on sale almost a year ago (albeit not shipping for a while later). The iPhone price-drop was very harsh on early adopters but a new version of a year-old product? Apple do that all the time with Macs and iPods.
1. More than likely will shoot HDV with low-cost prosumer gear, not true HD with broadcast quality. Way too high of cost, even to rent, for adult films. Let's face it, folks aren't watching it for high quality cinematography and storyline.
2. I imagine it's still going to be lots cheaper for adult film producers wanting to do HiDef to commercially press Blu-Ray or HD-DVDs from glass masters than burn them one at a time with lasers.
3. Can't imagine spending the money to watch adult films in HD on my $3500 flat-screen. Doesn't the requisite anti-splatter plastic drop-cloth over the set diffuse the high quality image?
Not in the cost to the consumer! Manufacturing costs.
That's because you don't know what you're talking about, bad at comprehension or bad at explaining what you mean. The prices I stated ARE the per-disc manufacturing costs to the studio from a replicator that makes HD DVD and Blu-Ray, in a run of (IIRC) 100,000 pc. quantities for each format, packaged. The costs of the production line are ammortized into the discs, and as such, is an irrelevant consideration.
"More expensive to produce" is a nice sound bite but making a big deal about a DIME per disc being too much more expensive is pretty stupid in my opinion.
I seem sometimes proficient in English, but I am afraid this is the side effect of talking almost exclusively about computers and technical stuff. In other sectors I need definitely to try more and enlarge my vocabulary.
Quote:
Originally Posted by JeffDM
Acne are skin blemishes caused by a lot of oil build-up and bacteria in sweat glands. They are also called pimples.
A c-section (cesarean section) is where a surgeon cuts into the front lower torso & into the uterus to deliver a baby. I'm told it can leave a big scar.
To add to that, there are warts and moles, which are other forms of skin blemishes. As I understand it, high res still nude photos are heavily photoshopped, with HD video, that's too much work.
Thank you for taking the time to explain all this for me. It was quite informative.
Porn HD DVD will kill Blu-Ray like Porn VHS killed Beta.
No, it wont, as most Porn can be had on the Internet, thus making Porn's impact on this current format battle less "impactful."
Also, the whole cost issue in regards to HD DVD and Blu-ray discs had been discussed ad-nauseum per the Blu-ray vs HD DVD thread, and the points you bring up are only partly true. First, the cost of replication for Blu-ray is indeed slightly higher. In other words, manufacturing costs are higher. However, the cost to the end consumer (which is the most important of the two) is actually LESS for Blu-ray discs than their HD DVD counterparts.
So, really, Porn will probably be cheaper on the Blu-ray disc format, if you think it is going to have such clout in this iteration of a format war.
WRONG- Porn is going for the cheap. Blu-ray is more expensive to reproduce- everyone knows this except apparently you. DVD plants can be retrofitted to manufacture HD DVD discs. Blu Ray need new plants created from scratch. How could you not know this?
You really don't know anything about this. There is almost no difference in costs involved. In interviews in the NYTimes a few months ago about this very subject, those in the industry said that they were agitated that Sony and others hadn't yet committed to their needs (though they now have).
BD pressing plants are working. Once the plants have been built, the pressing and processing costs are almost identical, and over time, will get cheaper still. That's the way it works.
I had a number of adult entertainment companies as customers of my lab, and we had discussed these possibilities before we sold it.
Every time articles on this subject appear, Blu-Ray is mentioned as being preferred. You can read some in AVNS.
No, it wont, as most Porn can be had on the Internet, thus making Porn's impact on this current format battle less "impactful."
Also, the whole cost issue in regards to HD DVD and Blu-ray discs had been discussed ad-nauseum per the Blu-ray vs HD DVD thread, and the points you bring up are only partly true. First, the cost of replication for Blu-ray is indeed slightly higher. In other words, manufacturing costs are higher. However, the cost to the end consumer (which is the most important of the two) is actually LESS for Blu-ray discs than their HD DVD counterparts.
So, really, Porn will probably be cheaper on the Blu-ray disc format, if you think it is going to have such clout in this iteration of a format war.
Exactly, Porn has gone onto the Internet. Anyone who thinks it'll have nearly the impact that it did on VHS/Beta is high.
Apple is most likely going to procure a Universal drive. They really don't have a pony in this war as much as many people like to portray.
To date DVD Studio Pro supports HD DVD out of the box and Blu-ray prep with a Telestream plugin.
There's no value in Apple choosing sides. They sell content production software. They don't give a shat about the format war.
Blu-ray/HD DVD playback isn't coming until HDCP/AACS/BD+/ is fully integrated in OS X.
Newsflash ....Universals will rule the day. Last CES it was about Universal chipsets from NEC and Broadcom. This CES should be about more integration and Universal player options.
Apple is most likely going to procure a Universal drive. They really don't have a pony in this war as much as many people like to portray.
To date DVD Studio Pro supports HD DVD out of the box and Blu-ray prep with a Telestream plugin.
There's no value in Apple choosing sides. They sell content production software. They don't give a shat about the format war.
Blu-ray/HD DVD playback isn't coming until HDCP/AACS/BD+/ is fully integrated in OS X.
Newsflash ....Universals will rule the day. Last CES it was about Universal chipsets from NEC and Broadcom. This CES should be about more integration and Universal player options.
Actually, there is a value in Apple choosing sides. Microsoft is heavily invested in HD DVD. The VC-1 codec that is used on a large percentage of HD DVD's is a renamed version of Microsoft's WMV format and the interactive features of HD DVD are powered by Microsoft's HDi. Stopping MS from getting another stranglehold on technology seems like a pretty good reason to me.
And if, as you suggest, universal, dual-formats players win, then both formats lose. Current dual-format players cost more than buying 2 different players for each format. There's also the retail aspect to think about with 2 formats sucking up valuable shelf space. This CES should be about ditching the losing format if HD content is to survive.
Comments
Again, not true.
Porn industry is going for the cheaper of the 2 formats- HD DVD. Blu-ray may be questionably better but more expensive per disc.
And Disney will no way allow porn to be sold along with Peter Pan.
Which format is technically better is irrelevant. In case you haven't noticed, the market, not science and technology, is what drives the world that we live in. With that in mind, blu-ray has two big problems...
Irrelevant to you, but not to others.
1) HD DVD is drastically cheaper to produce... the authoring tools are out there... and the players was WAY cheaper for the consumer to buy. Toshiba has also had a few "door crasher" sales selling players for $99 with 5 free movies. They sold something close to 100,000 of them on black friday.
Meaningless! When technologies are new, they always cost more. Does that mean we shouldn't adopt them? Of course not. Prices are dropping rapidly.
My first CD burner, a 4 speed, cost over $1,000. The disks cost $10 a piece.
When I bought my Digital Audio Mac, with the Pioneer 2x DVD burner, the burner was going for $1,000 externally, and the disks, again, cost $10.
Right now, you can get a Blu-Ray burner for $500, and the disks again cost $10.
What do you think will happen a year from now?
2) Sony, apparently, refuses to allow adult content on blu-ray... or at least... they will have no part in manufacturing of such content. Which is understandable, but like it or not, the adult market brings in significantly more money than the mainstream market. Something like 15 billion a year? Like it or not, you can't ignore the adult market.
That's no longer true. Adult content is coming out on Blu-Ray.
For the record... I would prefer blu-ray to win... but market forces are what will decide this... not merits... or Apple. Actually... what I would prefer is that we skip straight to HD downloads and forget this who stupid war being waged over little round pieces of plastic.
Screw HD-DVD.
More than twice the number of movies are being sold in the BD format than in HD-DVD.
If Apple has one, that ratio will go much higher, as it's been shown that Mac owners spend far more on music, Tv, and movies in digital download form. than PC owners
Steve Jobs is the majority Disney stockholder and Disney is exclusively Blu-Ray. Gee I wonder why Apple's gone Blu-Ray?
I think Disney made their choice before Steve joined. This is just a rumor, so we don't know of Apple chose a side yet. They are effectively in both coalitions right now.
And being under Sony's influence is a whole lot better- right?
Definitely.
Porn industry is going for the cheaper of the 2 formats- HD DVD. Blu-ray may be questionably better but more expensive per disc.
The only numbers I've seen from a replicator is that both formats are about $2/disc packaged. HD DVD is cheaper by a dime. It's not prohibitively more expensive as proponents make it seem.
Porn industry is going for the cheaper of the 2 formats- HD DVD. Blu-ray may be questionably better but more expensive per disc.
And Disney will no way allow porn to be sold along with Peter Pan.
You don't know much about this, do you?
The porn industry PREFERS BD.
This has nothing to do with Disney.
Steve Jobs is the majority Disney stockholder and Disney is exclusively Blu-Ray. Gee I wonder why Apple's gone Blu-Ray?
Apple are currently a Blu-Ray supporter in name only though. Disney have declined to answer questions about being paid to support Blu-Ray. I doubt very much that Steve Jobs cares which format wins - Apple are all about selling content on iTunes - and if Apple did start selling computers with Blu-Ray drives, would it really make much difference to the format war?
Now imagine an Apple TV, capable of playing HD-DVD or Blu-Ray DVDs at 1080p, or iTunes content at 720p. Apple sells more kit and more content. The studios can still sell DVDs at full price because they are higher resolution than the online content, but they have an extra sales channel for those who want the convenience. If the price is right, format fence-sitters are more likely to take the plunge. Stimulate a market for dual format players and both formats survive, still competing to win business from studios though it no longer matters to customers which format they buy their DVDs in. It seems to me that most of the main players could be pretty happy with this.
Apple are currently a Blu-Ray supporter in name only though. Disney have declined to answer questions about being paid to support Blu-Ray. I doubt very much that Steve Jobs cares which format wins - Apple are all about selling content on iTunes - and if Apple did start selling computers with Blu-Ray drives, would it really make much difference to the format war?
Now imagine an Apple TV, capable of playing HD-DVD or Blu-Ray DVDs at 1080p, or iTunes content at 720p. Apple sells more kit and more content. The studios can still sell DVDs at full price because they are higher resolution than the online content, but they have an extra sales channel for those who want the convenience. If the price is right, format fence-sitters are more likely to take the plunge. Stimulate a market for dual format players and both formats survive, still competing to win business from studios though it no longer matters to customers which format they buy their DVDs in. It seems to me that most of the main players could be pretty happy with this.
The players? What about the consumers that got burnt on the first Apple TV? Should they get a trade-in? Rebate?
Disney/Pixar right now only releases in Blu-Ray. Trust me, he cares what format wins. He does not want Microsoft to win anything anymore. He won't be happy until crushes as much juice out of Microsoft as he possible can. It's a sad modus operandi but unfortunately a reality.
You don't know much about this, do you?
The porn industry PREFERS BD.
This has nothing to do with Disney.
WRONG- Porn is going for the cheap. Blu-ray is more expensive to reproduce- everyone knows this except apparently you. DVD plants can be retrofitted to manufacture HD DVD discs. Blu Ray need new plants created from scratch. How could you not know this?
The only numbers I've seen from a replicator is that both formats are about $2/disc packaged. HD DVD is cheaper by a dime. It's not prohibitively more expensive as proponents make it seem.
Not in the cost to the consumer! Manufacturing costs.
The players? What about the consumers that got burnt on the first Apple TV? Should they get a trade-in? Rebate?
There aren't very many of those though are there. Besides, the first Apple TV went on sale almost a year ago (albeit not shipping for a while later). The iPhone price-drop was very harsh on early adopters but a new version of a year-old product? Apple do that all the time with Macs and iPods.
2. I imagine it's still going to be lots cheaper for adult film producers wanting to do HiDef to commercially press Blu-Ray or HD-DVDs from glass masters than burn them one at a time with lasers.
3. Can't imagine spending the money to watch adult films in HD on my $3500 flat-screen. Doesn't the requisite anti-splatter plastic drop-cloth over the set diffuse the high quality image?
Not in the cost to the consumer! Manufacturing costs.
That's because you don't know what you're talking about, bad at comprehension or bad at explaining what you mean. The prices I stated ARE the per-disc manufacturing costs to the studio from a replicator that makes HD DVD and Blu-Ray, in a run of (IIRC) 100,000 pc. quantities for each format, packaged. The costs of the production line are ammortized into the discs, and as such, is an irrelevant consideration.
"More expensive to produce" is a nice sound bite but making a big deal about a DIME per disc being too much more expensive is pretty stupid in my opinion.
Ah. I didn't get that impression.
I seem sometimes proficient in English, but I am afraid this is the side effect of talking almost exclusively about computers and technical stuff. In other sectors I need definitely to try more and enlarge my vocabulary.
Acne are skin blemishes caused by a lot of oil build-up and bacteria in sweat glands. They are also called pimples.
A c-section (cesarean section) is where a surgeon cuts into the front lower torso & into the uterus to deliver a baby. I'm told it can leave a big scar.
To add to that, there are warts and moles, which are other forms of skin blemishes. As I understand it, high res still nude photos are heavily photoshopped, with HD video, that's too much work.
Thank you for taking the time to explain all this for me. It was quite informative.
Cheers.
Porn HD DVD will kill Blu-Ray like Porn VHS killed Beta.
No, it wont, as most Porn can be had on the Internet, thus making Porn's impact on this current format battle less "impactful."
Also, the whole cost issue in regards to HD DVD and Blu-ray discs had been discussed ad-nauseum per the Blu-ray vs HD DVD thread, and the points you bring up are only partly true. First, the cost of replication for Blu-ray is indeed slightly higher. In other words, manufacturing costs are higher. However, the cost to the end consumer (which is the most important of the two) is actually LESS for Blu-ray discs than their HD DVD counterparts.
So, really, Porn will probably be cheaper on the Blu-ray disc format, if you think it is going to have such clout in this iteration of a format war.
WRONG- Porn is going for the cheap. Blu-ray is more expensive to reproduce- everyone knows this except apparently you. DVD plants can be retrofitted to manufacture HD DVD discs. Blu Ray need new plants created from scratch. How could you not know this?
You really don't know anything about this. There is almost no difference in costs involved. In interviews in the NYTimes a few months ago about this very subject, those in the industry said that they were agitated that Sony and others hadn't yet committed to their needs (though they now have).
BD pressing plants are working. Once the plants have been built, the pressing and processing costs are almost identical, and over time, will get cheaper still. That's the way it works.
I had a number of adult entertainment companies as customers of my lab, and we had discussed these possibilities before we sold it.
Every time articles on this subject appear, Blu-Ray is mentioned as being preferred. You can read some in AVNS.
No, it wont, as most Porn can be had on the Internet, thus making Porn's impact on this current format battle less "impactful."
Also, the whole cost issue in regards to HD DVD and Blu-ray discs had been discussed ad-nauseum per the Blu-ray vs HD DVD thread, and the points you bring up are only partly true. First, the cost of replication for Blu-ray is indeed slightly higher. In other words, manufacturing costs are higher. However, the cost to the end consumer (which is the most important of the two) is actually LESS for Blu-ray discs than their HD DVD counterparts.
So, really, Porn will probably be cheaper on the Blu-ray disc format, if you think it is going to have such clout in this iteration of a format war.
Exactly, Porn has gone onto the Internet. Anyone who thinks it'll have nearly the impact that it did on VHS/Beta is high.
Exactly, Porn has gone onto the Internet. Anyone who thinks it'll have nearly the impact that it did on VHS/Beta is high.
Not correct- the porn DVD industry is huge. Is is not only internet. They are sold in the millions. Put down the pipe yourself.
To date DVD Studio Pro supports HD DVD out of the box and Blu-ray prep with a Telestream plugin.
There's no value in Apple choosing sides. They sell content production software. They don't give a shat about the format war.
Blu-ray/HD DVD playback isn't coming until HDCP/AACS/BD+/ is fully integrated in OS X.
Newsflash ....Universals will rule the day. Last CES it was about Universal chipsets from NEC and Broadcom. This CES should be about more integration and Universal player options.
Apple is most likely going to procure a Universal drive. They really don't have a pony in this war as much as many people like to portray.
To date DVD Studio Pro supports HD DVD out of the box and Blu-ray prep with a Telestream plugin.
There's no value in Apple choosing sides. They sell content production software. They don't give a shat about the format war.
Blu-ray/HD DVD playback isn't coming until HDCP/AACS/BD+/ is fully integrated in OS X.
Newsflash ....Universals will rule the day. Last CES it was about Universal chipsets from NEC and Broadcom. This CES should be about more integration and Universal player options.
Actually, there is a value in Apple choosing sides. Microsoft is heavily invested in HD DVD. The VC-1 codec that is used on a large percentage of HD DVD's is a renamed version of Microsoft's WMV format and the interactive features of HD DVD are powered by Microsoft's HDi. Stopping MS from getting another stranglehold on technology seems like a pretty good reason to me.
And if, as you suggest, universal, dual-formats players win, then both formats lose. Current dual-format players cost more than buying 2 different players for each format. There's also the retail aspect to think about with 2 formats sucking up valuable shelf space. This CES should be about ditching the losing format if HD content is to survive.