Sources: Apple Newton-tablet not ripe for Macworld

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  • Reply 61 of 160
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by NasserAE View Post


    It is an expected move since MobBook have just been designated as Apple-authorized product. I prefer to see a multi-touch keyboard for MacBook and MacBook Pro where your keyboard is basically another screen that changes to whatever the active software want it to be including a custom keyboard or a touch surface.



    Close. I expect to see the keyboard being a DOCKed version of the Wireless keyboard we so loved. And this Multi-Touch screen on the touchpad but twice the size!. This way one can undock the keyboard and use it next to the NanoBook while using this Multi-touch pad. So no need for the confounded mouse!. I just hate rodents, especially single botton beasties!.
  • Reply 62 of 160
    I need a clamshell iPhone that is the form-factor of two current iPhones with a slight trim on the thickness. Both with edge-to-edge screen.

    No speaker, no ear piece. twin headphone jacks. MultiDevice BT pairing.

    Bluetooth A2DP support and Wireless keyboard support. Oh, put a 30 GB 1.8 inch drive on the lower unit and a couple of USB2 ports. 512MB RAM and 16GB flash. Bump the wifi to 802.11n. Still an advanced iPhone and people would gladly pay $800 for it. Come on, iPhone Deluxe anyone ???



    Oh accessory to support the clamshell when used with the wireless keyboard. Make the support in aluminium that hinges and folds under the wireless keyboard for storage. Now this device will replace a work laptop anyday.
  • Reply 63 of 160
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Ireland View Post


    Gosh, you should talk to Ireland, I hear you think alike. I have being saying that for months now. Target it at desktop users! Though my tag-line was, and kind of still is "Take some work with you."



    What can I say? Great minds think alike!
  • Reply 64 of 160
    melgrossmelgross Posts: 33,334member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Ireland View Post


    Gosh, you should talk to Ireland, I hear you think alike. I have being saying that for months now. Target it at desktop users! Though my tag-line was, and kind of still is "Take some work with you."



    Ireland, if you've read my arguments with vinea about touch keyboards, and what I've been saying about using a touch monitor for the desktop, you'd see that I think it will come, and could be very effective.



    But, the problem with that idea is that it would have to be much bigger than what you propose. 15" is the very minimum for any real desktop machine. Even that's much too small for many users. Standard monitor sizes for the desktop have now reached 22", and it looks that in another year or so, if the prices keep dropping the way they have, that 24" will be next.



    Most people I know who have portables also have desktops with these larger screens.



    My thoughts are that, from what I'm seeing, is that people are keeping their desktops, and buying a portable as well. They aren't getting a new desktop machine yet, but are likely to do so after a while.



    How do you propose to service these people?



    Or do you?
  • Reply 65 of 160
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by melgross View Post


    Ireland, if you've read my arguments with vinea about touch keyboards, and what I've been saying about using a touch monitor for the desktop, you'd see that I think it will come, and could be very effective.



    But, the problem with that idea is that it would have to be much bigger than what you propose. 15" is the very minimum for any real desktop machine. Even that's much too small for many users. Standard monitor sizes for the desktop have now reached 22", and it looks that in another year or so, if the prices keep dropping the way they have, that 24" will be next.



    Most people I know who have portables also have desktops with these larger screens.



    My thoughts are that, from what I'm seeing, is that people are keeping their desktops, and buying a portable as well. They aren't getting a new desktop machine yet, but are likely to do so after a while.



    How do you propose to service these people?



    Or do you?



    The idea (that I am talking about at least) is that you would use this with your current desktop. This is for people who don't want to buy a whole new computer but would still like portability. When you need the large screen, you use your desktop (though it would be awesome if it could be used like a Wacom Cinque too) but you can take the tablet and sit on the couch and work, perhaps like a remote desktop, perhaps independent of it. You take it out and work on it, then bring it back and synch it back with your computer, backing up the changes you made to documents and allowing you to work on them there.



    This is an extension of your current computer, not a new one. Hence why it is like a Newton, though not one because it uses OSX. This isn't what the iMac dock was for, that would be for the MacBook Air (or whatever).
  • Reply 66 of 160
    melgrossmelgross Posts: 33,334member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Rogzilla View Post


    The idea (that I am talking about at least) is that you would use this with your current desktop. This is for people who don't want to buy a whole new computer but would still like portability. When you need the large screen, you use your desktop (though it would be awesome if it could be used like a Wacom Cinque too) but you can take the tablet and sit on the couch and work, perhaps like a remote desktop, perhaps independent of it. You take it out and work on it, then bring it back and synch it back with your computer, backing up the changes you made to documents and allowing you to work on them there.



    This is an extension of your current computer, not a new one. Hence why it is like a Newton, though not one because it uses OSX. This isn't what the iMac dock was for, that would be for the MacBook Air (or whatever).



    You don't need a tablet for that. And a Newton-like machine that I've proposed for a while, is a much smaller device than you or Ireland are proposing, with different uses, and ergonomics.



    If you don't have a purpose for a machine like this that can't easily be served by a standard configuration, then the tablet serves no purpose.



    If Apple does come out with the ultralight, it would serve the purpose you are talking about better than the tablet.



    The only real purpose a tablet serves is to be used when standing, and holding it in the crook of an arm, while doing whatever needs to be done with the other hand, where typing on a keyboard with two hands isn't easily possible. Otherwise, a keyboarded machine is better.



    The only other purpose would be to doodle on the screen to make certain notations on a document, or drawing. But, a keyboarded model could do that as well, if the screen had some touch abilities.



    I don't see a big enough market for a device such as this. Possibly sometime in the future, if something new comes out that people MUST use, that requires a tablet. But there isn't any killer app or device yet that fits that need.
  • Reply 67 of 160
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by melgross View Post


    I don't see a big enough market for a device such as this. Possibly sometime in the future, if something new comes out that people MUST use, that requires a tablet. But there isn't any killer app or device yet that fits that need.



    I think you're looking at this from the perspective of a traditional Apple pro user.



    A larger ipod touch with bluetooth (enabling the use of a bluetooth keyboard and earphones, and sync with a computer), a 5-7 inch screen, and running a more advanced version of OSX, WOULD probably sell like hotcakes.



    It would primarily target the ENTERTAINMENT market, but could also serve as a functional umpc, mid, pda etc. for business use.



    The true revenue producers for Apple are in this segment: ala iphone, touch and ipods.



    The new computing paradigm is quickly going to move toward mobility. All in one thin client, portable slates.



    How awesome to be able to watch movies on a decent size screen, use web apps, listen to music, and sync/stream from a home system when necessary.

    All for a reasonable price.



    There is a huge market segment for this. Targeting mostly younger, web 2.0 type users.
  • Reply 68 of 160
    solipsismsolipsism Posts: 25,726member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by macsation View Post


    I think you're looking at this from the perspective of a traditional Apple pro user.



    A larger ipod touch with bluetooth (enabling the use of a bluetooth keyboard and earphones, and sync with a computer), a 5-7 inch screen, and running a more advanced version of OSX, WOULD probably sell like hotcakes.



    It would primarily target the ENTERTAINMENT market, but could also serve as a functional umpc, mid, pda etc. for business use.



    The true revenue producers for Apple are in this segment: ala iphone, touch and ipods.



    The new computing paradigm is quickly going to move toward mobility. All in one thin client, portable slates.



    How awesome to be able to watch movies on a decent size screen, use web apps, listen to music, and sync/stream from a home system when necessary.

    All for a reasonable price.



    There is a huge market segment for this. Targeting mostly younger, web 2.0 type users.




    I don't see a big enough market for this. Then again, I didn't see the market for the 1G iPod.
  • Reply 69 of 160
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by solipsism View Post


    I don't see a big enough market for this.



    The n810 shows the potential. With an OS that doesn't require a Comp Sci degree running it, it would be widely popular. Add Apple's marketing machine and....



    According to reports I read, at the recent CES show, the development was primarily focused on these type devices.
  • Reply 70 of 160
    irelandireland Posts: 17,794member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by macsation View Post


    I think you're looking at this from the perspective of a traditional Apple pro user.



    A larger ipod touch with bluetooth (enabling the use of a bluetooth keyboard and earphones, and sync with a computer), a 5-7 inch screen, and running a more advanced version of OSX, WOULD probably sell like hotcakes.



    It would primarily target the ENTERTAINMENT market, but could also serve as a functional umpc, mid, pda etc. for business use.



    The true revenue producers for Apple are in this segment: ala iphone, touch and ipods.



    The new computing paradigm is quickly going to move toward mobility. All in one thin client, portable slates.



    How awesome to be able to watch movies on a decent size screen, use web apps, listen to music, and sync/stream from a home system when necessary.

    All for a reasonable price.



    There is a huge market segment for this. Targeting mostly younger, web 2.0 type users.



    Exactly, I just think you think have the screen size wrong. I think it will be closer to 10 or 11 inches myself. I also think it will be a real Mac and not simply the iPod touch's bigger brother. Although it would technically be an extension of your desktop or your larger, heavier notebook - in that it would have to set-up, docked and synced with it - I also think it would be a Mac in its own right.



    People who say they don't see a market for this surprise me, cause I can a HUGE market for it, as some others can. For a start, every teenager in the world would want one. I think people who have large desktops would be very intrigued by it too. And it not only would it be an extremely cool, useful product. It would also get Apple a lot of attention and win them a lot of mindshare - showing again what is different about Apple.



    It would be the first for a tablet on a lot of fronts. It would be first genuinely "cool" tablet for starters. It would be the first "really thin" tablet. It would be first tablet properly designed to be used with fingers. It would be the first "really easy to use" tablet. It would be the first consumer tablet to have this new revolutionary multi-touch user-interface. It would be the first tablet with a "great" on-screen keyboard. Etc. etc. etc. As I said, I see this device being "huge". The addition of something like that pop-out rest on the back would be great too, you could prop up the tablet and type away on screen nicely.
  • Reply 71 of 160
    melgrossmelgross Posts: 33,334member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by macsation View Post


    I think you're looking at this from the perspective of a traditional Apple pro user.



    A larger ipod touch with bluetooth (enabling the use of a bluetooth keyboard and earphones, and sync with a computer), a 5-7 inch screen, and running a more advanced version of OSX, WOULD probably sell like hotcakes.



    It would primarily target the ENTERTAINMENT market, but could also serve as a functional umpc, mid, pda etc. for business use.



    The true revenue producers for Apple are in this segment: ala iphone, touch and ipods.



    The new computing paradigm is quickly going to move toward mobility. All in one thin client, portable slates.



    How awesome to be able to watch movies on a decent size screen, use web apps, listen to music, and sync/stream from a home system when necessary.

    All for a reasonable price.



    There is a huge market segment for this. Targeting mostly younger, web 2.0 type users.



    That is NOT what they're talking about!



    Ireland's proposal is for an 11" touch model. MUCH bigger, yet, too small to do much.



    My proposal is for a model that would fit on your belt, with a screen, perhaps 4" x 6", though that size would depend on what the largest size that could be carried on you belt would be.
  • Reply 72 of 160
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Ireland View Post


    Exactly, I just think you think have the screen size wrong. I think it will be closer to 10 or 11 inches myself. I also think it will be a real Mac and not simply the iPod touch's bigger brother. Although it would technically be an extension of your desktop or your larger, heavier notebook - in that it would have to set-up, docked and synced with it - I also think it would be a Mac in its own right.



    Only thing is, if it is a full Mac in it's own right, it's gonna have a full Mac price as well.

    $600 would be a great price point.



    Anything more, and I think we're headed into UMPC pricing territory. And, they don't do well at all.
  • Reply 73 of 160
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by melgross View Post


    That is NOT what they're talking about!



    Ireland's proposal is for an 11" touch model. MUCH bigger, yet, too small to do much.



    My proposal is for a model that would fit on your belt, with a screen, perhaps 4" x 6", though that size would depend on what the largest size that could be carried on you belt would be.



    Exactly
  • Reply 74 of 160
    irelandireland Posts: 17,794member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by melgross View Post


    That is NOT what they're talking about!



    Ireland's proposal is for an 11" touch model. MUCH bigger, yet, too small to do much.



    My proposal is for a model that would fit on your belt, with a screen, perhaps 4" x 6", though that size would depend on what the largest size that could be carried on you belt would be.



    If you want it to fit in on your belt you don't know today's youth culture. And the mere fact that you cannot put that size in your pocket tells me if it was 10" it would not any difference (inconvenience-wise). I think my size would not only be way more useful and more productive, but a far far better ultra-portable Mac. Which is what the Mac touch will be.
  • Reply 75 of 160
    irelandireland Posts: 17,794member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by macsation View Post


    Only thing is, if it is a full Mac in it's own right, it's gonna have a full Mac price as well.

    $600 would be a great price point.



    Anything more, and I think we're headed into UMPC pricing territory. And, they don't do well at all.



    That's like saying loads aren't going to buy a $599 phone, or even a $399 one. I definitely see this device costing over $1000. But I see it being so cool, useful and productive that it would fly off the shelves, even at that price.
  • Reply 76 of 160
    I personally have almost pulled the trigger on an ipod touch like 6 times. The thing that held me back was the lack of bluetooth, screen size, storage capacity, and true web-app functionality.



    The new SDK takes care of the functionality. If it had the other components I would pay up to $700 for it.



    It would truly allow me to turn my macbook pro into a full time desktop. I'd only take it out if I was away from home for a really long time.
  • Reply 77 of 160
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Ireland View Post


    That's like saying loads aren't going to buy a $599 phone, or even a $399 one. I definitely see this device costing over $1000. But I see it being so cool, useful and productive that it would fly off the shelves, even at that price.



    Maybe so. I personally would not buy it. Too expensive. Already have a laptop. It would also be too big for my use. Don't wanna lug it around.



    Might also price out a lot of younger buyers.



    But, you're right, there may be a market for it.
  • Reply 78 of 160
    irelandireland Posts: 17,794member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by macsation View Post


    Maybe so. I personally would not buy it. Too expensive. Already have a laptop. It would also be too big for my use. Don't wanna lug it around.



    Might also price out a lot of younger buyers.



    But, you're right, there may be a market for it.



    Also worth noting the price could come down quickly over a few years on a device like this, and it would be "the perfect couch computer".
  • Reply 79 of 160
    melgrossmelgross Posts: 33,334member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Ireland View Post


    If you want it to fit in on your belt you don't know today's youth culture. And the mere fact that you cannot put that size in your pocket tells me if it was 10" it would not any difference (inconvenience-wise). I think my size would not only be way more useful and more productive, but a far far better ultra-portable Mac. Which is what the Mac touch will be.



    Don't assume that every product has to be for the "youth culture".



    And as far as that goes, my daughter, and most of her friends, think that even the iPhone is too big.



    This product, whatever it may be, will be too expensive for kids. That hs to be established from the beginning.



    If this will be a high tech device, it will cost whatever high tech devices cost. That could very well mean, for a small Newton-like device, $800. That won't be a kids toy.



    This has to be based on the much smaller iPhone and iTouch, and those are already $400.



    Even a 4" x 6" screen is several times the area, and a more powerful processor, graphics chip, etc will be called for.
  • Reply 80 of 160
    melgrossmelgross Posts: 33,334member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Ireland View Post


    Also worth noting the price could come down quickly over a few years on a device like this, and it would be "the perfect couch computer".



    A few years?



    If it can't be priced to sell in good numbers now, Apple won't keep it around for years until it does.



    Always remember the Cube. Apple could have waited it out, come out with a less expensive G3 model, etc. But they didn't. They simply cut it.



    I don't think that Jobs, seeing Apple's increasing marketshare, will settle for a model that sells in small numbers, in the hope that at some future date, to be determined only when it arrives, prices will fall enough for the device to sell.



    Not going to happen, not any more.
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