Sources: Apple Newton-tablet not ripe for Macworld

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  • Reply 141 of 160
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by melgross View Post


    That's a poor example. And those using the iPhone for business are few. Besides that, software has already come out from several prominent companies that makes the iPhone a more attractive business investment.



    These drives only weigh a few ounces, not several pounds, certainly no more than ther keyboard would weigh.



    It isn't the weight per se, but the fact that you need another device.



    You want to argue semantics? A pen is even larger than a stylus. Jobs doesn't like the idea of a separate device needed for input. That's it.



    I know how the Wacoms and other graphics tablets, work. I've used them since the '80's.



    Now, you see the problem.



    It was very simple, as I said above. I've already complained, last January, about the lack of the use of a stylus (pen, whatever). But, did Apple listen to me? No. Will they listen to you? No.



    There is no tablet rumor. There is speculation on whether Apple will produce one. That is not the same as a rumor saying that Apple is about to produce one.



    The only rumor on that front is for the Newton-like device, which is much smaller, and very different. One of those might eventually make it.



    No its not a good example but meh, they can't all be winners.



    I always thought the drives were pretty heavy. Oh well, I was never good at wieght estimation, but they are certainly THICKER than a current bluetooth keyboard. And again, you don't NEED the device, but you can use it if you want to (like the pen). If people want something attached, then perhaps this ultraportable macbook thing might be for them.



    So Jobs doesn't like the NEED for a second device for input. That is what I suspected...but I am simply suggesting that, should Apple produce a tablet, it would be logical to have the option of a pen input to appeal to a wider audience. But a stylus and pen are two VERY different objects to me. And good, I am glad we are on the same page. I don't know what you have used and I want to make sure my point is being made.



    I suppose I do, but I see a solution to that problem. The only question is, what would Apple do?



    Did you actually complain TO Apple or just on the message boards? And I LIKE not having a stylus on the iPhone/iPod touch, I think it is appropriate there. On a full size tablet though, I think it would be more appealing to artists if it had wacom like pen functionality. And of course they aren't going to listen to me, but then I am not TRYING to get them to. I am simply stating my opinion on what I feel would be a good product on a message board of people with different opinions to enjoy a dialogue.



    And now YOU are discussing symmantics. A pen is the same as a stylus but speculation is different from a rumor? A rumor is just speculation that "came from a source" and most turn out to probably be nonsense. And what about what the article said about Apple actually developing technology for a tablet PC that they took later to the iPhone. If this is true, then it wouldn't be too far to imagine that they are continuing to develop that technology into something else.



    But you are missing my point with these statements. It doesn't MATTER if it is rumor or not. We are just discussing what we would LIKE TO SEE. Not what will happen. Not what is rumored, just what we would like to see. Why? Because it is FUN! WEEEEEEEE!
  • Reply 142 of 160
    melgrossmelgross Posts: 33,334member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Rogzilla View Post


    No its not a good example but meh, they can't all be winners.



    I always thought the drives were pretty heavy. Oh well, I was never good at wieght estimation, but they are certainly THICKER than a current bluetooth keyboard. And again, you don't NEED the device, but you can use it if you want to (like the pen). If people want something attached, then perhaps this ultraportable macbook thing might be for them.



    So Jobs doesn't like the NEED for a second device for input. That is what I suspected...but I am simply suggesting that, should Apple produce a tablet, it would be logical to have the option of a pen input to appeal to a wider audience. But a stylus and pen are two VERY different objects to me. And good, I am glad we are on the same page. I don't know what you have used and I want to make sure my point is being made.



    I suppose I do, but I see a solution to that problem. The only question is, what would Apple do?



    Did you actually complain TO Apple or just on the message boards? And I LIKE not having a stylus on the iPhone/iPod touch, I think it is appropriate there. On a full size tablet though, I think it would be more appealing to artists if it had wacom like pen functionality. And of course they aren't going to listen to me, but then I am not TRYING to get them to. I am simply stating my opinion on what I feel would be a good product on a message board of people with different opinions to enjoy a dialogue.



    And now YOU are discussing symmantics. A pen is the same as a stylus but speculation is different from a rumor? A rumor is just speculation that "came from a source" and most turn out to probably be nonsense. And what about what the article said about Apple actually developing technology for a tablet PC that they took later to the iPhone. If this is true, then it wouldn't be too far to imagine that they are continuing to develop that technology into something else.



    But you are missing my point with these statements. It doesn't MATTER if it is rumor or not. We are just discussing what we would LIKE TO SEE. Not what will happen. Not what is rumored, just what we would like to see. Why? Because it is FUN! WEEEEEEEE!



    We might see solutions to problems that Apple doesn't see as problems. Two different things.



    Yes, I actually complained (though that's not the word for it) to Apple, as well as making noise on the boards. I also know some people there, which is why I'm not expecting anything but finger input anytime soon.



    I like my drawing program on my Treo. I also like the other programs that would be difficult with finger input. Some games for instance.



    Speculation is very different from a rumor.



    A rumor comes from a source that has reason to believe that something is about to happen, from movements of parts from suppliers, to inserted lines in the OS, or other programs, etc.



    Speculation is just people getting together and saying "wouldn't it be great if Apple came out with...".



    That so called "tablet" WAS the iPhone. Not a tablet. An unfortunate use of the wrong word.



    We now have rumors of the small Newton device. That's about it. the rest is just speculation here, and on other sites.



    I enjoy the fun of it as much as anyone. But, just as you have your idea as to what you WANT to happen, I have my idea as to what WON'T happen.



    I can use some real numbers on my part.
  • Reply 143 of 160
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by melgross View Post


    We might see solutions to problems that Apple doesn't see as problems. Two different things.



    Yes, I actually complained (though that's not the word for it) to Apple, as well as making noise on the boards. I also know some people there, which is why I'm not expecting anything but finger input anytime soon.



    I like my drawing program on my Treo. I also like the other programs that would be difficult with finger input. Some games for instance.



    Speculation is very different from a rumor.



    A rumor comes from a source that has reason to believe that something is about to happen, from movements of parts from suppliers, to inserted lines in the OS, or other programs, etc.



    Speculation is just people getting together and saying "wouldn't it be great if Apple came out with...".



    That so called "tablet" WAS the iPhone. Not a tablet. An unfortunate use of the wrong word.



    We now have rumors of the small Newton device. That's about it. the rest is just speculation here, and on other sites.



    I enjoy the fun of it as much as anyone. But, just as you have your idea as to what you WANT to happen, I have my idea as to what WON'T happen.



    I can use some real numbers on my part.



    A good (but unfortunate) point there.



    Well good on ya! I know some people who say "Oh I complained" but only on message boards and made no real attempt!



    Well, rumors lead to speculation and speculation leads to rumors. I mean, the way you describe rumors sounds like speculation still to me. Now, a rumor to me might be like 9to5macs revealation of the fatty nano. They "had a source" and spread it around. That just turne dout to be legit. Other people "have sources" that turn out to be nonsense.



    It has been my understanding that they were two different devices. Well, I can't claim to know everything. I would not put it past apple to have put some thought into a full tablet though.



    Would it really be a Newton device though? That is word used to describe it but what does that really mean? A PDA? I know Newton wasn't the actual device but the OS that the Messanger Pads run. Newton might refer simply to the size of the device. It might be a complete misnomier. I don't know but it gives me enough to randomly speculate on a device as such.



    The problem with your ideas of what WONT happen, is that they poopoo on my ideas of what I want. Way to rain on my parade with REALITY! :-P



    Numbers?
  • Reply 144 of 160
    amorphamorph Posts: 7,112member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by melgross View Post


    I don't know. I've been thinking about that myself. If it were easily possible, then it should have been out already.



    Except that as of right now there's no use for one. When the iPhone SDK comes out, and as the iPhone/iPod Touch platform matures, you have something you could go back to. I'm imagining a version of OmniGraffle that "snaps" sketched shapes and lines into diagrams...



    Or Wacom could license the tech and come out with a multi-touch drawing tablet. Finger-painting! Squeezing (ZBrush has never been so much fun)! Smearing! Use a brush with special "hairs" and watch as it's reproduced accurately on screen! Etc., etc. If nothing else it would be a lot of fun.
  • Reply 145 of 160
    melgrossmelgross Posts: 33,334member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Rogzilla View Post


    A good (but unfortunate) point there.



    Well good on ya! I know some people who say "Oh I complained" but only on message boards and made no real attempt!



    Well, rumors lead to speculation and speculation leads to rumors. I mean, the way you describe rumors sounds like speculation still to me. Now, a rumor to me might be like 9to5macs revealation of the fatty nano. They "had a source" and spread it around. That just turne dout to be legit. Other people "have sources" that turn out to be nonsense.



    It has been my understanding that they were two different devices. Well, I can't claim to know everything. I would not put it past apple to have put some thought into a full tablet though.



    Would it really be a Newton device though? That is word used to describe it but what does that really mean? A PDA? I know Newton wasn't the actual device but the OS that the Messanger Pads run. Newton might refer simply to the size of the device. It might be a complete misnomier. I don't know but it gives me enough to randomly speculate on a device as such.



    The problem with your ideas of what WONT happen, is that they poopoo on my ideas of what I want. Way to rain on my parade with REALITY! :-P



    Numbers?



    I don't mean to say that a rumor is always correct! Far from it. But, a rumor purports to be correct.



    Speculation has no such contention. It's just people giving their ideas on what they'd like to see.



    The only reason why the description Newton-like is being used is for the approximate form factor. The screen is much larger than the iPhones, but much smaller than Irelands 11" model he posted.



    What would this supposed device do?



    Well, likely everything the iTouch does. but, with a screen with 2.5 times the area and resolution, a lot more as well. The processors would be more powerful, allowing more Maclike programs to be used.



    The keyboard would also be much bigger, and easier to use (horizontal, please!).



    But, I'm just guessing. If this sees the light of day, its not supposed to be here until spring, at the earliest.
  • Reply 146 of 160
    irelandireland Posts: 17,794member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by melgross View Post


    It's nice that you think so. But your thinking so doesn't make it true.



    So far, there is about NO interest in a tablet, even here, with so far, just about three of four people being interested in the larger form you are pushing. About three times that number have given the ok for the Newton sized device, and the rest don't seem to care at all for either.



    And these forums are more forward looking (techie) than the public at large.



    You'll see, and so will I
  • Reply 147 of 160
    melgrossmelgross Posts: 33,334member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Amorph View Post


    Except that as of right now there's no use for one. When the iPhone SDK comes out, and as the iPhone/iPod Touch platform matures, you have something you could go back to. I'm imagining a version of OmniGraffle that "snaps" sketched shapes and lines into diagrams...



    That could be true. But, I would think that at least one company would show a design concept, at least.



    Possibly at Macworld we will be treated to a beta of the SDK. Supposedly, it's been in the hands of some big developers for a while now, like October. If so, perhaps we'll see some beta results from some companies as well. That happened, you might remember when Apple first announced their move to Intel, but well before it actually occurred.



    Quote:

    Or Wacom could license the tech and come out with a multi-touch drawing tablet. Finger-painting! Squeezing (ZBrush has never been so much fun)! Smearing! Use a brush with special "hairs" and watch as it's reproduced accurately on screen! Etc., etc. If nothing else it would be a lot of fun.



    I'm not sure Apple would do that. But other companies are coming out with multitouch products, so there is more than one way to do it. Wacom may not need Apple's software at all.
  • Reply 148 of 160
    melgrossmelgross Posts: 33,334member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Ireland View Post


    You'll see, and so will I



    We sure will buddy.
  • Reply 149 of 160
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by melgross View Post


    I don't mean to say that a rumor is always correct! Far from it. But, a rumor purports to be correct.



    Speculation has no such contention. It's just people giving their ideas on what they'd like to see.



    The only reason why the description Newton-like is being used is for the approximate form factor. The screen is much larger than the iPhones, but much smaller than Irelands 11" model he posted.



    What would this supposed device do?



    Well, likely everything the iTouch does. but, with a screen with 2.5 times the area and resolution, a lot more as well. The processors would be more powerful, allowing more Maclike programs to be used.



    The keyboard would also be much bigger, and easier to use (horizontal, please!).



    But, I'm just guessing. If this sees the light of day, its not supposed to be here until spring, at the earliest.



    Ahhh, but some people pass off their speculation AS rumor. I mean, yes they are LIARS but it still becomes rumor, doesn't it?



    I wouldn't mind a 7" screen...but I would still want a pen or at LEAST some natural way for me to draw on it. A finger wouldn't work, you agree?



    Would this device allow SOME degree of word processing? ie-could I take this out and work on my scripts while I was on the go? COULD I pair a bluetooth keyboard for it for extended typing (I agree that typing on a on screen keyboard for extended periods of time is problem matic).



    Truth be told, I could probably get an approximation of the tablet I want with the rumored subnotebook and a 12" Cinque...but that is going to be freaking expensive at the end of the day. And I am not certain if the subnotebook will be a second computer or a companion like I imagine the Newton (and my dream tablet) to be.



    But hey, we will see what we see tomorrow!
  • Reply 150 of 160
    flounderflounder Posts: 2,674member
    according to macnn, an iPhone stylus already exists.



    http://www.macnn.com/articles/07/08/...stylus.debuts/
  • Reply 151 of 160
    melgrossmelgross Posts: 33,334member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Rogzilla View Post


    Ahhh, but some people pass off their speculation AS rumor. I mean, yes they are LIARS but it still becomes rumor, doesn't it?



    I wouldn't mind a 7" screen...but I would still want a pen or at LEAST some natural way for me to draw on it. A finger wouldn't work, you agree?



    Would this device allow SOME degree of word processing? ie-could I take this out and work on my scripts while I was on the go? COULD I pair a bluetooth keyboard for it for extended typing (I agree that typing on a on screen keyboard for extended periods of time is problem matic).



    Truth be told, I could probably get an approximation of the tablet I want with the rumored subnotebook and a 12" Cinque...but that is going to be freaking expensive at the end of the day. And I am not certain if the subnotebook will be a second computer or a companion like I imagine the Newton (and my dream tablet) to be.



    But hey, we will see what we see tomorrow!



    My idea for this would be with a 7" diag screen. A lot could be done with that. The resolution could be 720 x 400 or 480, which is plenty.



    I would imagine that most anything you would want to do could be done, except for high density processing apps.



    I would also want a pen or stylus.
  • Reply 152 of 160
    melgrossmelgross Posts: 33,334member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Flounder View Post


    according to macnn, an iPhone stylus already exists.



    http://www.macnn.com/articles/07/08/...stylus.debuts/



    That's great! Why hasn't this been publicized more? I don't read macnn much any more, so I didn't see it.
  • Reply 153 of 160
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by melgross View Post


    My idea for this would be with a 7" diag screen. A lot could be done with that. The resolution could be 720 x 400 or 480, which is plenty.



    I would imagine that most anything you would want to do could be done, except for high density processing apps.



    I would also want a pen or stylus.



    EXCELLENT...though with the new Wired design, that ultra-portable seems ultra awesome! Of course, it is probably not entirely right...but it sure would be nice.
  • Reply 154 of 160
    melgrossmelgross Posts: 33,334member
    Here's an article on debunking Macworld rumors.



    http://www.computerworld.com/action/...LT_MAC&nlid=62
  • Reply 155 of 160
    melgrossmelgross Posts: 33,334member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Rogzilla View Post


    EXCELLENT...though with the new Wired design, that ultra-portable seems ultra awesome! Of course, it is probably not entirely right...but it sure would be nice.



    Nothing's perfect.
  • Reply 156 of 160
    Batman is... :-P
  • Reply 157 of 160
    melgrossmelgross Posts: 33,334member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Rogzilla View Post


    Batman is... :-P



    I'm not going to reply to that. I just won't!!!
  • Reply 158 of 160
    amorphamorph Posts: 7,112member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by melgross View Post


    That's great! Why hasn't this been publicized more? I don't read macnn much any more, so I didn't see it.



    I didn't see it either, which confirms my hunch that it was released ahead of any real demand.



    It does confirm my hunch that the multitouch technology is aware of the size and shape of the "touch," which opens up a lot of possibilities.
  • Reply 159 of 160
    melgrossmelgross Posts: 33,334member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Amorph View Post


    I didn't see it either, which confirms my hunch that it was released ahead of any real demand.



    It does confirm my hunch that the multitouch technology is aware of the size and shape of the "touch," which opens up a lot of possibilities.



    It would certainly make it much more useful.
  • Reply 160 of 160
    Does anyone know where we can actually buy one of these stylus...es..er...styli....the plural form of stylus. :-P



    After that price for the MacBook Air (I was right about the $799 part...just forgot the 1 infront of it!), I am deffinately going to wait to see what this Newton-esque tablet thing is supposed to be. Probably not my dream machine, I know, but hopefully something more useful to me than the MBA. If push comes to shove, then I will just get a MacBook for portability.
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