MacBook Air - CUBE / or not CUBE?

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  • Reply 101 of 185
    vineavinea Posts: 5,585member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by PB View Post


    You are certainly joking here. Allowing access to your own hardware (optical drive here) by some random guy has nothing to do with being nice enough or not. You just don't do it. And people in a conference are busy enough to offer you no more than indifference if you ask them to copy the CD content on a USB key.



    When wireless services will be more widespread in scientific conferences (I mean not only provide the hotspots but also the content, instead of distributing CD's as it is the case now), then yes, such a notebook will be very convenient.



    The first depends on how secure it will appear and the level of trust between people. I sometimes go to confrences alone but even if I do there is invariably someone I know there from past conferences.



    Also, conferences are for networking. You can typically meet folks at the opening night social and develop some level of relationship. At least enough to get them to copy some files onto a USB key for you which takes seconds the next morning and they can do so in the background as they check mail or whatever.



    Thirdly, I have been to large and small scientific conferences and largely they have the schedule on the web along with abstracts and often papers. Final presentations not so much because some of us bring it along on a USB key after finalizing them on the plane. These I have copied to unknown colleagues after presenting because it's no big deal to do and only takes a moment.



    And you still HAVE the CD or DVD even if you didn't bring your optical drive. 90% of the time I don't look at that thing until I need to write up my trip report anyway.



    I can tell you this though...the MBA will be a heck of a lot easier to take around with you at a conference than a MBP or even MB. It's thin and light enough to not be a bother.
  • Reply 102 of 185
    pbpb Posts: 4,233member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by vinea View Post


    The first depends on how secure it will appear and the level of trust between people. I sometimes go to confrences alone but even if I do there is invariably someone I know there from past conferences.



    Also, conferences are for networking. You can typically meet folks at the opening night social and develop some level of relationship. At least enough to get them to copy some files onto a USB key for you which takes seconds the next morning and they can do so in the background as they check mail or whatever.



    Too much involved. For my personal taste at least. Unless you already know someone, in which case yes, it may work.



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by vinea View Post


    Thirdly, I have been to large and small scientific conferences and largely they have the schedule on the web along with abstracts and often papers.



    Yes, if you are lucky enough. In small conferences you may not even have wireless internet.



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by vinea View Post


    I can tell you this though...the MBA will be a heck of a lot easier to take around with you at a conference than a MBP or even MB. It's thin and light enough to not be a bother.



    This is the obvious part about the MBA.
  • Reply 103 of 185
    vineavinea Posts: 5,585member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by PB View Post


    Too much involved. For my personal taste at least. Unless you already know someone, in which case yes, it may work.



    Yes, if you are lucky enough. In small conferences you may not even have wireless internet.



    Dude, I've been to some pretty obscure little conferences in the last couple years and not ONE conference, large, small or medium can I recall not having internet access either in my room or in the conference areas.



    In very small conferences these might be wired ports in a conference room but in small conferences its really rare not to know someone because most of these obscure little conferences are attended by regulars.



    If nothing else, you probably know the organizers since they handle registration as well.



    This is a non-issue. Heck, most small conferences hand burn their CDs and don't have them ready until the last day. You're going to have to be specific as to which conferences suck that badly so we can all avoid them.
  • Reply 104 of 185
    MarvinMarvin Posts: 14,230moderator
    I think if Apple had introduced the equivalent of the old 12" powerbook at that price, it would have gone down much better.



    It was only 4.6lbs and I'm sure they could have found a way to push that down to 4lbs.



    I miss the little powerbook - I still think it was Apple's best laptop for portability while maintaining its power. It had a dedicated graphics chip along with the same G4 used in the larger models, an optical drive and firewire.



    Then Apple could have made a touch slate with the components from the Macbook Air. A touch screen ultra-portable would have been much more impressive IMO and given the form factor of the Air, completely feasible.
  • Reply 105 of 185
    backtomacbacktomac Posts: 4,579member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by vinea View Post




    What they need next, IMHO, is a keynote player on the PC platform and the iPhone.



    +++



    A keynote player on the iPhone would be a business killer app for the iPhone.



    A powerpoint player for the iphone wouldn't be a bad idea either. I know some people who prefer pp to keynote although I'm pretty sure they've never given keynote a good look.



    I wonder who gets one to market first, MS or Apple.
  • Reply 106 of 185
    I think that in 2008 we may see another "mac", the itablet/itouch (whatever you want to call it).



    It's been reported here and on other sites to be like an ipod touch but about twice the screen size.



    For those people who think the Mac Air is too big/ too expensive etc, maybe you should wait and see if the tablet touch turns up.
  • Reply 107 of 185
    pbpb Posts: 4,233member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by vinea View Post


    This is a non-issue. Heck, most small conferences hand burn their CDs and don't have them ready until the last day. You're going to have to be specific as to which conferences suck that badly so we can all avoid them.



    I don't think it may affect you or others here because of language and specialisation.
  • Reply 108 of 185
    rickagrickag Posts: 1,626member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Adjei View Post


    The crybabies and trolls are it again.



    Thanks for contributing absolutely nothing to the discussion.
  • Reply 109 of 185
    rickagrickag Posts: 1,626member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Amorph View Post


    But if Apple releases a product that prompts major gadget lust in the executive suite, is IT going to tell them no?

    ...



    You may be right, but how big is this market? Is it sustainable? I don't know. In the business market you must concede Apple is a minor player. They have just offered up what is a remarkable product, but is only a fraction(what fraction I don't know)of the total mobile business market.



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by wizard69


    The engineering on AIR is very interesting to say the least, but unfortunately they screwed up in a couple of very serious ways.



    First; the issue of the non swappable battery. Simply not acceptable!



    Second; the lack of ports. Yeah I know it is an "ultra portable" but I expect see just one USB port on something like Touch2 or iPhone 2, on a laptop it is a joke.



    Third; the lack of Audio input. This is absolutely stupid on Apples part. Especially considering they could of taken iPhones jack and leveraged it here. I list this separately from I/O because I see it as a glaring failure.



    Finally the price is outrageous. All the whining about "its an ultra portable" is bull crap. Apple is offering up a device with an extremely truncated feature set and it charging way to much for that feature set. Combine this issue with the issues above and you have junk in my mind.





    That is all well and good but why did I check "may do OK". Simply because of the large number of stupid people, involved in business, who seem empowered when carrying around the latest gadget. For the rest of us it is frustrating as the thing is almost there. A simple swappable battery could have made up for much of the negativity now in the market.



    Dave



    You point out some deficiencies, but I disagree concerning the desire for ultra-portables. I believe there is a market for ultra-portables designed like the MacBook Air, I just question how much of it Apple can capture. Unless I'm totally misreading the consumer's desire for ultra-portable expensive laptops.



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by lundy


    It doesn't matter what proportion of the business market Apple has now. What is important is that there are business travelers who use Macs and when they go on business trips they want a smaller and lighter Mac to take with them instead of the MacBook or MBP.





    Optical drives are history. There is no need for them. Even reinstalling the OS can be done if you make a 10 GB partition on the internal hard drive and use that instead of a DVD.



    On this kind of a product there is no need for ethernet or FireWire either. All you need is USB and a video out. Carry it, work on presentations and reports, connect to projector, give pitch, pack up and go. 3 pounds - a helluva feature when giving 10 presentations in 10 days in 10 states. Recharge at night in the hotel room. No need for a second battery - if you are so far away from a power source that you need a second battery, then you need 50 batteries.



    I can maybe understand the MacBook Air being a replacement in some circumstances for a MacBook for the business traveler. But you're also proposing that Apple is offering up a less expensive replacement for the MacBook Pro that will eat into their profit margins? And in a market that Apple is a very minor player. Oh well, hope you're right, right now my AAPL could use some very encouraging news.





    Quote:
    Originally Posted by vinea View Post


    ....

    Yah, and it will sell to the highest segment of the business market first which can influence IT decisions more directly than us worker bees.



    ...



    Yes, but the flip side of this is if it becomes a continuing battle with IT and support is less than adequate, you've just pissed off the same decision makers who will come away with a very negative attitude towards Apple and Apple products.



    ........



    I just don't really think that Apple is positioning this as a business computer at all. IMHO they are targeting the consumer and any business users that find it acceptable the more the merrier. But, that said, I am somewhat concerned that in general consumers may not see this as a viable product, especially with the economy tanking.



    It is an amazing product though.
  • Reply 110 of 185
    physguyphysguy Posts: 915member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by rickag View Post


    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Adjei

    The crybabies and trolls are it again.



    Thanks for contributing absolutely nothing to the discussion.



    Actually he contributed about as much as those who say "Fixed battery - UNACCEPTABLE" , "ONE PORT HORRIBLE"



    All those are saying, without giving arguments or reasons, is "CHANGE IS BAD"



    If people start giving reasons and then thinking about what there saying then they'll see these are choices that make sense, for a given market, one that most here are not part of. They aren't absolutes. If designs don't try different approaches we end up with DELLS.



    As someone previously mentioned - the floppy. "How could they possibly leave it out, its cheap and everyone uses it." In hindsight everyone sees where apple was headed. \
  • Reply 111 of 185
    Well, the guys here wanted 'their' subnotebook and Apple gave it to them 'Apple style'.



    Heh.



    I think it's gorgeous.



    It's pricey. But hey. That's what the sub note book market is, eh? Poncy thin, featurless and expensive?



    At least Apple are the leaders in thin and sexy at the moment.



    Execs everywhere rejoice.



    An inch less wide? *Shrugs. Would that have stopped the whining?



    I guess Apple can see where the laptop market is going...it is very indeedy very iMac in the forward looking nature of it.



    I think it will do well.



    But you're speaking to a desktop dinosaur who fancies an octo tower mac with a 9800 in it.



    I won't be getting one.



    Lemon Bon Bon.
  • Reply 112 of 185
    shadowshadow Posts: 373member
    ironknee compared MBA to the original iMac. But it was not missing a floppy drive only: no ADB (old Apple keyboards, mice and a bunch of other devices like monitor calibrators, tablets, digitizers, ...), no serial port, no SCSI port, no NuBus slots! And the CD drive was read only! Oh, my!!! It was DOOMED! the only way you could get ANY FILE out of that thing was [then lousy] Internet and [initially nonexistent] USB external device!



    The reality turned out to be different though.
  • Reply 113 of 185
    amorphamorph Posts: 7,112member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by rickag View Post


    You may be right, but how big is this market? Is it sustainable? I don't know. In the business market you must concede Apple is a minor player. They have just offered up what is a remarkable product, but is only a fraction(what fraction I don't know)of the total mobile business market.



    We'll know for sure before long. But it's competitively priced with other subnotes, small, gorgeous, and with a different set of compromises than subnotes usually make (e.g., you can actually touch type on the keyboard and read the screen without 20/20 vision).



    The funny thing about converting executives to Macs is that once they can use one just fine on the corporate network and they like it, they're much less likely to be opposed to anyone else using Macs on the corporate network. They might even ask why there aren't more of them. The executives are the people who made it so that "nobody got fired for buying IBM" and later Microsoft. Their influence is out of all proportion to their numbers.



    On top of that, the odds are pretty good that the senior IT guys have either eyeballed a MacBook Pro for themselves or gone to conferences where their Dell was a minority platform. So it might not be so alien to them either. This isn't 1997.



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by rickag View Post


    You point out some deficiencies, but I disagree concerning the desire for ultra-portables. I believe there is a market for ultra-portables designed like the MacBook Air, I just question how much of it Apple can capture. Unless I'm totally misreading the consumer's desire for ultra-portable expensive laptops.



    It's never been big, which is why I'm not expecting this machine to sell in the quantities that a MacBook does. However, the full-size keyboard (a good idea shared with the 12" PBG4) and a smallish but not tiny screen will appeal to more people than subnotes usually do. The price is pretty aggressive for a subnote, too, unless you spring for the SSD.



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by rickag View Post


    Yes, but the flip side of this is if it becomes a continuing battle with IT and support is less than adequate, you've just pissed off the same decision makers who will come away with a very negative attitude towards Apple and Apple products.



    Unless the C*O decides to blame IT.



    This is where Apple's efforts to Work Well With Others will count. I think they've done a good job of it. There may be a few exceptions, but generally Apple has nothing to lose here.



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by rickag View Post


    I just don't really think that Apple is positioning this as a business computer at all. IMHO they are targeting the consumer and any business users that find it acceptable the more the merrier. But, that said, I am somewhat concerned that in general consumers may not see this as a viable product, especially with the economy tanking.



    This is the long-rumored "executive PowerBook." It would not surprise me at all if the executive it was primarily designed for was Steve Jobs, but he knows other executives and their habits and mindsets. The SSD model is aimed squarely at them.



    Other people could use the Air as well: With an iMic and your choice of conventional mic's or a USB mic' it's a great podcasting/field recording machine—not a MBP with an Apogee Duet and a matched stereo pair of Schoeps, but definitely good enough, and more portable. It's great for conferences (allowing for the CD thing, but then you can always bring the external drive the first day to get whatever data you need and then leave it in your bag for the remained of the conference). It's a good, if pricey, choice for older students and people who just don't want to lug 5 or 6 pounds around.



    There will also be a small but devoted subgroup who buy it out of sheer gadget lust.
  • Reply 114 of 185
    backtomacbacktomac Posts: 4,579member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Amorph View Post




    This is the long-rumored "executive PowerBook." It would not surprise me at all if the executive it was primarily designed for was Steve Jobs, but he knows other executives and their habits and mindsets. The SSD model is aimed squarely at them.



    Other people could use the Air as well: With an iMic and your choice of conventional mic's or a USB mic' it's a great podcasting/field recording machine—not a MBP with an Apogee Duet and a matched stereo pair of Schoeps, but definitely good enough, and more portable. It's great for conferences (allowing for the CD thing, but then you can always bring the external drive the first day to get whatever data you need and then leave it in your bag for the remained of the conference). It's a good, if pricey, choice for older students and people who just don't want to lug 5 or 6 pounds around.



    There will also be a small but devoted subgroup who buy it out of sheer gadget lust.



    This is also aimed at Japan where size is critical.



    And your point about compromises is very good. Laptops themselves are a machine built on compromises. Ultra-portables even more so. Whether Apple made the right compromises or not remains to be seen. But Apple tends to get it right more than wrong.
  • Reply 115 of 185
    iposteriposter Posts: 1,560member
    ...just think how cool you'll look surfing AI while sitting at the airport terminal sipping your Starbucks latte and listening to music on your Bang & Olufsen earbuds!!



  • Reply 116 of 185
    johnqhjohnqh Posts: 242member
    I cannot believe there are so many close-minded Mac users.



    There are a lot of PC sub-notebooks without optical drives. Actually, EVERY single brand had this segment covered except Apple. I don't see PC users complaining about that.



    If it is not for you, move on. However, based on the fact there so many PC sub-notebooks are available and sold without optical drives, I would say there is a healthy market for it.
  • Reply 117 of 185
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Marcus View Post


    Cube. Big time.



    Ditto. Bring on the new MBP.
  • Reply 118 of 185
    this makes me laugh.



    remember when the iphone came out, and everyone said:



    no physical keyboard? hmmpph

    no exchange server support? no way

    I can't MMS people? I do this all the time

    no 3g? I need faster internet

    600 bucks? my razr was only 40



    guess what, the iPhone sold, and sold well. I think what we seem to be forgetting is that Apple can market a turd and people would buy it.



    I think I'm going to get it. I'm a student. I'll take it with me to class to take notes and write reports... use it when I'm away from my 24" imac to work on websites and such. Can I do graphics on it? probably not. Can I watch movies on it? definately not. But that's not what I'm getting it for. I'm getting it so I don't have lug my old asus laptop that weighs 12lbs or my girlfriends macbook around from class to class. plus I do some traveling and it would be nice to use in those instances too.



    Have you ever stood in line at the airport waiting for security with your laptop bag over your shoulder with a 12lb laptop in it. horrible.
  • Reply 119 of 185
    I bet it'll sell well. At least I'm praying it well. I love watching Apple have success
  • Reply 120 of 185
    gongon Posts: 2,437member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Amorph View Post


    Ethernet? Meh. Who buys a 3lb. laptop to be tethered to a desk? If you're in corporate environment bring the USB->Ethernet cable. Otherwise, bring an AirPort Express (or a Time Capsule). I don't travel without mine, and I have a 17" with Gb ethernet. The whole joy of using a notebook is that you aren't tethered.



    Throughout ~five corporate environments (technical research of various sorts) I never once saw wireless in use. In at least two of them, wireless networking was explicitly banned for security.
    Quote:

    The full-size keyboard and 13" screen are a trade-off. On the one hand, the really hardcore subnote fans won't like the extra size. On the other hand, people who wouldn't ordinarily look at a cramped little subnote will look at this.



    Only, there's nothing cramped about the keyboard that goes into a 12" or 12" widescreen laptop.



    I'm clearly of the group you're talking about. IMO, 13" makes this a Macbook.



    Setting aside the debate about whether Air should be considered an ultraportable at all, I think Apple is taking the already sorta small ultraportable niche and dividing it again by going too large for many in that niche. Out of all dimensions they could have optimized, they optimized thickness which matters the least.
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by physguy View Post


    Definitely not the case for the ultra light market. I just did a quick survey of the somewhat comparable systems from Sony, Dell, HP. First, most of the light systems I found were 1.2 GHz or less system with 577MHz or less busses. And these were costing in the $1800+ range after upgrading them to core 2 duo, 2 GB, 80 GB systems.



    *facepalm*



    The 1.2GHz U7600 is the current top of the range in ULV processors, which makes it the top choice for an ultraportable.
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