I know they went thin, but are they trying to be thin or small. I think if Apple has a smaller model like some mockups I have seen then this is just a niche machine which is OK. But if they have no other machines that are coming out in the future that are like 8 inches wide and 6 inches tall or smaller then this seems like just a weird size thing to do. Why not just make an ULTRA portable that is 1.5 lbs with the lack of a DVD drive. So like I am saying unless they have something really small coming out then I don't get why make a luxury item. But all in all this is what I feel this is. just a luxury item... Which to me is worthless, but some people like a life of luxury, like those gold plated iPods...
I suppose that is the ultimate endgame question, and we'll never know.
You said the MBA would fail...regardless of what Steve's sales targets are YOU must have some criteria for failure.
An easy one is halting production in less than a year like the Cube.
Selling fewer than 100K units is also an easy metric except that Apple doesn't do breakdowns so it may be hard to know...halting production is pretty danged obvious.
You said the MBA would fail...regardless of what Steve's sales targets are YOU must have some criteria for failure.
An easy one is halting production in less than a year like the Cube.
Selling fewer than 100K units is also an easy metric except that Apple doesn't do breakdowns so it may be hard to know...halting production is pretty danged obvious.
The mini hasn't really gotten updates but it is far more successful than the Cube in as much as it still exists and Apple never blamed it for lower revenue than expected due to poor sales. Despite claims of its death its still here in 2008 doing its thing, filling its niche.
No updates is a far cry from "sales of this product sucked so bad we canned it before it had its first birthday".
No one expects the MBA to be the next iPod but you seem to be backing away from it being "the next Cube".
Of course, saying the MBA is the "next Mini" is far less interesting because it isn't inflammatory (as in the buyers aren't automatically either rich or idiots or both) and a lot closer to the reality.
Personally, I think the MBA will be more successful than the Mini as there are more folks out there that wants a lighter Mac laptop than a SFF Mac.
The mini hasn't really gotten updates but it is far more successful than the Cube in as much as it still exists and Apple never blamed it for lower revenue than expected due to poor sales. Despite claims of its death its still here in 2008 doing its thing, filling its niche.
No updates is a far cry from "sales of this product sucked so bad we canned it before it had its first birthday".
No one expects the MBA to be the next iPod but you seem to be backing away from it being "the next Cube".
Of course, saying the MBA is the "next Mini" is far less interesting because it isn't inflammatory (as in the buyers aren't automatically either rich or idiots or both) and a lot closer to the reality.
Personally, I think the MBA will be more successful than the Mini as there are more folks out there that wants a lighter Mac laptop than a SFF Mac.
Loser pays for MWSF 2009 for the winner? I'm in on the side of the MBA selling well, if only as a status symbol, let alone a very versatile exec/student/globe-hopper/2nd computer for us rich folk/etc. So what're the odds? The over-under? I'm totally open to any action on the side.
The mini hasn't really gotten updates but it is far more successful than the Cube in as much as it still exists and Apple never blamed it for lower revenue than expected due to poor sales. Despite claims of its death its still here in 2008 doing its thing, filling its niche.
No updates is a far cry from "sales of this product sucked so bad we canned it before it had its first birthday".
No one expects the MBA to be the next iPod but you seem to be backing away from it being "the next Cube".
Of course, saying the MBA is the "next Mini" is far less interesting because it isn't inflammatory (as in the buyers aren't automatically either rich or idiots or both) and a lot closer to the reality.
Personally, I think the MBA will be more successful than the Mini as there are more folks out there that wants a lighter Mac laptop than a SFF Mac.
But the mini has seen updates. And it did sell past a year didn't it? Although it could be dead now for all we know. Many reports say it is in it's last days. But that's not what I said about the MBA. I said no updates past this time next year. Even the cube saw an incremental update didn't it? I though it did. I think they gave it the one update t try and save it but it just didn't take. I expect the same from the MBA.
But the mini has seen updates. And it did sell past a year didn't it? Although it could be dead now for all we know. Many reports say it is in it's last days. But that's not what I said about the MBA. I said no updates past this time next year. Even the cube saw an incremental update didn't it? I though it did. I think they gave it the one update t try and save it but it just didn't take. I expect the same from the MBA.
I guess I'm saying "no update" is not as bad as cancelled before a year and caused the company to have a bad quarter. The thing could do reasonably well and still not have an update...
A lot of you seem to think there are no buyers who want a thin and light notebook with average to okay power. Well there are.
Me, for instance. I was hoping Apple would go the thin and light route rather than powerful with a small footprint route which died with the 12" PowerBook. Why? Because I just want something that's portable without sacrificing screen or keyboard.
I wanted a widescreen (check), thin (checkcheckCHECK), lighter than 3.5 pounds (check), 32GB SSD (The 80GB HDD is fine too) notebook for writing, web browsing and managing mdia (iTunes). MacBook Air delvers the very portable, simple notebook. Exactly what I wanted.
So what is its equivalent in desktop Macs? Cube? Mac mini? Performa?
No, it is NOT the Cube. It's the iMac.
You heard me. Mac Mini - MacBook. iMac - MacBook Air. Mac Pro - MacBook Pro.
That's why it's priced in the middle, that's why it's saddled with such a sub-par name (MacBook mini/nano would position it in the Mac mini position on the matrix). Just like the iMac, it compromises some things for the sake of simplicity. And you know what? There's nothing wrong with that.
Hate it if you want because it's not the 12" MacBook Pro, those of us who love it will buy it anyway.
I think there's a bigger market for tiny 3 lb computers than there are for big (but skinny) 3 lb computers. The thickness wasn't the problem; it was the size. The MacBook Air is no more usable in cramped quarters than the MacBook; it's just thinner. It's also far less capable of a machine than the MacBook, so it should cost less, not more. The MacBook Air's price/performance ratio seems very reminiscent of and underpowered and overpriced box that Apple released some years back. I would be very surprised if the product tear-downs don't reveal that Apple has $1,000 - $1,200 profit on the MacBook Air.
Cutting the thickness only reduced weight. People have wanted an ultraportable for reducing the footprint, keeping things small. Sure they were able to get a lot in there, but I don't think it was what the majority of buyers wanted.
Cutting the thickness only reduced weight. People have wanted an ultraportable for reducing the footprint, keeping things small. Sure they were able to get a lot in there, but I don't think it was what the majority of buyers wanted.
What you want may not be what the majority wants buddy.
I think there's a bigger market for tiny 3 lb computers than there are for big (but skinny) 3 lb computers. The thickness wasn't the problem; it was the size. The MacBook Air is no more usable in cramped quarters than the MacBook; it's just thinner. It's also far less capable of a machine than the MacBook, so it should cost less, not more. The MacBook Air's price/performance ratio seems very reminiscent of and underpowered and overpriced box that Apple released some years back. I would be very surprised if the product tear-downs don't reveal that Apple has $1,000 - $1,200 profit on the MacBook Air.
That's crazy. The board, CPU and related components are highly specialised.
Furthermore, just because MacBook Air isn't a solution to the problem you wish Apple had solved, doesn't mean it doesn't solve any problems. And even if a product doesn't solve a problem, it doesn't make it pointless. It might simply offer something some customers want.
I think there's a bigger market for tiny 3 lb computers than there are for big (but skinny) 3 lb computers.
In Japan, likely. But those same compact notebooks that fare so well in Japan have not been received very well in America. The primary complaints are the cramped keyboards and, to a lesser extent, the small screens. Apple is betting that the MBA form factor will appeal to Americans. If it does well in Japan and elsewhere, this will be a bonus. Quite frankly, I would be disappointed if Apple could deliver nothing different from what has already been tried.
Quote:
The thickness wasn't the problem; it was the size.
Many of those in the targeted audience will carry this in a briefcase where the larger x and y dimensions will be of no consequence. However, the thinner z dimension could be the difference between sliding something into your briefcase and shoving it in.
Quote:
It's also far less capable of a machine than the MacBook, so it should cost less, not more. The MacBook Air's price/performance ratio seems very reminiscent of and underpowered and overpriced box that Apple released some years back.
As has been noted repeatedly, the MBA is not in the same class as the MacBook. It is clearly designed to compete with other lightweight/compact notebooks and it is very competitive within this class. Miniaturization costs money and it is reflected in the prices of the competing products, as well.
Why people continue to essentially argue that the MBA is not what is was not meant to be (a desktop replacement) is beyond me. People who this machine appeals to will compare it to other small notebooks and decide which is more to their liking. Most MBA sales will be additive to Apple revenue since the only current alternatives are Windows-based. There will likely be very little cannibalization of the MB/MBP lines.
Quote:
I would be very surprised if the product tear-downs don't reveal that Apple has $1,000 - $1,200 profit on the MacBook Air.
This is just plain silly - you are arguing that Apple has 55-60% margins on the MBA. Let's see: custom-built CPU and motherboard, glass LED back-lit display, extended multi-touch trackpad, full-size back-lit keyboard, custom battery; I rather doubt you are looking at only a $600-$800 build cost. If I am wrong, then I will be pleased as a shareholder if the MBA sells only moderately well.
To be honest, I somewhat expected this. Reading through the forums prior to Expo showed no consensus on what a Mac ultra-portable should be. Some said that it only needed a 10-11" display while others insisted that anything less than 12" is unusable. Some said an ultra-portable is defined by its weight while others said that a compact size is the determinant. People argued on what ports are necessary and which could be left out. These are some of the same trade-offs that Apple had to juggle to come up with a design.
One striking point is how many people on these boards feel every Apple product has to address their needs. If this happens, Apple will have slower marketshare growth because it will fail to address new market opportunities. This means that Apple should offer different types of devices and we should accept that some of them will not appeal to us. Like it or not, you should be hoping that the MBA does well for Apple.
Personally, I think that the MBA will do okay for Apple in its target market. I know two people who have already placed their orders and three more (including myself) who are considering an MBA.
Quote:
The majority doesn't want the Air, but Apple made it... for a special minority.
THere is a market, however specialized, for a much smaller device such as an iPod Touch mega.
Apple has enough money now to dabble in specialized markets.
It doesn't matter what people here think. The best selling computer of all time the iMac was ripped apart by fanboys for not having a floppy drive. People here don't represent majority of the population.
This MacBook Air is already doing exceedingly well on the AppleStore..
People who this machine appeals to will compare it to other small notebooks and decide which is more to their liking. Most MBA sales will be additive to Apple revenue since the only current alternatives are Windows-based. There will likely be very little cannibalization of the MB/MBP lines.
Excellent post, penchanted, especially this bit.
It's something that most around here don't seem to get - you shouldn't expect this machine to appeal to the current Apple installed base, because Apple haven't offered a machine anything like this for years. Only the most die-hard of Apple fans or Microsoft haters would have been buying MacBooks/iBooks when what they really wanted was an ultraportable - they would have bought an ultraportable!
Comments
Peace
I suppose that is the ultimate endgame question, and we'll never know.
You said the MBA would fail...regardless of what Steve's sales targets are YOU must have some criteria for failure.
An easy one is halting production in less than a year like the Cube.
Selling fewer than 100K units is also an easy metric except that Apple doesn't do breakdowns so it may be hard to know...halting production is pretty danged obvious.
You said the MBA would fail...regardless of what Steve's sales targets are YOU must have some criteria for failure.
An easy one is halting production in less than a year like the Cube.
Selling fewer than 100K units is also an easy metric except that Apple doesn't do breakdowns so it may be hard to know...halting production is pretty danged obvious.
Ok, so no MBA updates beyond this time next year.
Ok, so no MBA updates beyond this time next year.
So how long do we have to wait?
The mini hasn't really gotten updates but it is far more successful than the Cube in as much as it still exists and Apple never blamed it for lower revenue than expected due to poor sales. Despite claims of its death its still here in 2008 doing its thing, filling its niche.
No updates is a far cry from "sales of this product sucked so bad we canned it before it had its first birthday".
No one expects the MBA to be the next iPod but you seem to be backing away from it being "the next Cube".
Of course, saying the MBA is the "next Mini" is far less interesting because it isn't inflammatory (as in the buyers aren't automatically either rich or idiots or both) and a lot closer to the reality.
Personally, I think the MBA will be more successful than the Mini as there are more folks out there that wants a lighter Mac laptop than a SFF Mac.
So how long do we have to wait?
The mini hasn't really gotten updates but it is far more successful than the Cube in as much as it still exists and Apple never blamed it for lower revenue than expected due to poor sales. Despite claims of its death its still here in 2008 doing its thing, filling its niche.
No updates is a far cry from "sales of this product sucked so bad we canned it before it had its first birthday".
No one expects the MBA to be the next iPod but you seem to be backing away from it being "the next Cube".
Of course, saying the MBA is the "next Mini" is far less interesting because it isn't inflammatory (as in the buyers aren't automatically either rich or idiots or both) and a lot closer to the reality.
Personally, I think the MBA will be more successful than the Mini as there are more folks out there that wants a lighter Mac laptop than a SFF Mac.
Loser pays for MWSF 2009 for the winner? I'm in on the side of the MBA selling well, if only as a status symbol, let alone a very versatile exec/student/globe-hopper/2nd computer for us rich folk/etc. So what're the odds? The over-under? I'm totally open to any action on the side.
So how long do we have to wait?
The mini hasn't really gotten updates but it is far more successful than the Cube in as much as it still exists and Apple never blamed it for lower revenue than expected due to poor sales. Despite claims of its death its still here in 2008 doing its thing, filling its niche.
No updates is a far cry from "sales of this product sucked so bad we canned it before it had its first birthday".
No one expects the MBA to be the next iPod but you seem to be backing away from it being "the next Cube".
Of course, saying the MBA is the "next Mini" is far less interesting because it isn't inflammatory (as in the buyers aren't automatically either rich or idiots or both) and a lot closer to the reality.
Personally, I think the MBA will be more successful than the Mini as there are more folks out there that wants a lighter Mac laptop than a SFF Mac.
But the mini has seen updates. And it did sell past a year didn't it? Although it could be dead now for all we know. Many reports say it is in it's last days. But that's not what I said about the MBA. I said no updates past this time next year. Even the cube saw an incremental update didn't it? I though it did. I think they gave it the one update t try and save it but it just didn't take. I expect the same from the MBA.
But the mini has seen updates. And it did sell past a year didn't it? Although it could be dead now for all we know. Many reports say it is in it's last days. But that's not what I said about the MBA. I said no updates past this time next year. Even the cube saw an incremental update didn't it? I though it did. I think they gave it the one update t try and save it but it just didn't take. I expect the same from the MBA.
I guess I'm saying "no update" is not as bad as cancelled before a year and caused the company to have a bad quarter. The thing could do reasonably well and still not have an update...
Not arguing...just curious.
Me, for instance. I was hoping Apple would go the thin and light route rather than powerful with a small footprint route which died with the 12" PowerBook. Why? Because I just want something that's portable without sacrificing screen or keyboard.
I wanted a widescreen (check), thin (checkcheckCHECK), lighter than 3.5 pounds (check), 32GB SSD (The 80GB HDD is fine too) notebook for writing, web browsing and managing mdia (iTunes). MacBook Air delvers the very portable, simple notebook. Exactly what I wanted.
So what is its equivalent in desktop Macs? Cube? Mac mini? Performa?
No, it is NOT the Cube. It's the iMac.
You heard me. Mac Mini - MacBook. iMac - MacBook Air. Mac Pro - MacBook Pro.
That's why it's priced in the middle, that's why it's saddled with such a sub-par name (MacBook mini/nano would position it in the Mac mini position on the matrix). Just like the iMac, it compromises some things for the sake of simplicity. And you know what? There's nothing wrong with that.
Hate it if you want because it's not the 12" MacBook Pro, those of us who love it will buy it anyway.
Cutting the thickness only reduced weight. People have wanted an ultraportable for reducing the footprint, keeping things small. Sure they were able to get a lot in there, but I don't think it was what the majority of buyers wanted.
What you want may not be what the majority wants buddy.
What you want may not be what the majority wants buddy.
The majority doesn't want the Air, but Apple made it... for a special minority.
THere is a market, however specialized, for a much smaller device such as an iPod Touch mega.
Apple has enough money now to dabble in specialized markets.
I think there's a bigger market for tiny 3 lb computers than there are for big (but skinny) 3 lb computers. The thickness wasn't the problem; it was the size. The MacBook Air is no more usable in cramped quarters than the MacBook; it's just thinner. It's also far less capable of a machine than the MacBook, so it should cost less, not more. The MacBook Air's price/performance ratio seems very reminiscent of and underpowered and overpriced box that Apple released some years back. I would be very surprised if the product tear-downs don't reveal that Apple has $1,000 - $1,200 profit on the MacBook Air.
That's crazy. The board, CPU and related components are highly specialised.
Furthermore, just because MacBook Air isn't a solution to the problem you wish Apple had solved, doesn't mean it doesn't solve any problems. And even if a product doesn't solve a problem, it doesn't make it pointless. It might simply offer something some customers want.
I think there's a bigger market for tiny 3 lb computers than there are for big (but skinny) 3 lb computers.
In Japan, likely. But those same compact notebooks that fare so well in Japan have not been received very well in America. The primary complaints are the cramped keyboards and, to a lesser extent, the small screens. Apple is betting that the MBA form factor will appeal to Americans. If it does well in Japan and elsewhere, this will be a bonus. Quite frankly, I would be disappointed if Apple could deliver nothing different from what has already been tried.
The thickness wasn't the problem; it was the size.
Many of those in the targeted audience will carry this in a briefcase where the larger x and y dimensions will be of no consequence. However, the thinner z dimension could be the difference between sliding something into your briefcase and shoving it in.
It's also far less capable of a machine than the MacBook, so it should cost less, not more. The MacBook Air's price/performance ratio seems very reminiscent of and underpowered and overpriced box that Apple released some years back.
As has been noted repeatedly, the MBA is not in the same class as the MacBook. It is clearly designed to compete with other lightweight/compact notebooks and it is very competitive within this class. Miniaturization costs money and it is reflected in the prices of the competing products, as well.
Why people continue to essentially argue that the MBA is not what is was not meant to be (a desktop replacement) is beyond me. People who this machine appeals to will compare it to other small notebooks and decide which is more to their liking. Most MBA sales will be additive to Apple revenue since the only current alternatives are Windows-based. There will likely be very little cannibalization of the MB/MBP lines.
I would be very surprised if the product tear-downs don't reveal that Apple has $1,000 - $1,200 profit on the MacBook Air.
This is just plain silly - you are arguing that Apple has 55-60% margins on the MBA. Let's see: custom-built CPU and motherboard, glass LED back-lit display, extended multi-touch trackpad, full-size back-lit keyboard, custom battery; I rather doubt you are looking at only a $600-$800 build cost. If I am wrong, then I will be pleased as a shareholder if the MBA sells only moderately well.
To be honest, I somewhat expected this. Reading through the forums prior to Expo showed no consensus on what a Mac ultra-portable should be. Some said that it only needed a 10-11" display while others insisted that anything less than 12" is unusable. Some said an ultra-portable is defined by its weight while others said that a compact size is the determinant. People argued on what ports are necessary and which could be left out. These are some of the same trade-offs that Apple had to juggle to come up with a design.
One striking point is how many people on these boards feel every Apple product has to address their needs. If this happens, Apple will have slower marketshare growth because it will fail to address new market opportunities. This means that Apple should offer different types of devices and we should accept that some of them will not appeal to us. Like it or not, you should be hoping that the MBA does well for Apple.
Personally, I think that the MBA will do okay for Apple in its target market. I know two people who have already placed their orders and three more (including myself) who are considering an MBA.
The majority doesn't want the Air, but Apple made it... for a special minority.
THere is a market, however specialized, for a much smaller device such as an iPod Touch mega.
Apple has enough money now to dabble in specialized markets.
Exactly!
What you want may not be what the majority wants buddy.
That ISN''T what I want. I want the MBA. The majority APPEARS to be for the other.
This MacBook Air is already doing exceedingly well on the AppleStore..
I would be very surprised if the product tear-downs don't reveal that Apple has $1,000 - $1,200 profit on the MacBook Air.
http://forums.appleinsider.com/showp...3&postcount=23
People who this machine appeals to will compare it to other small notebooks and decide which is more to their liking. Most MBA sales will be additive to Apple revenue since the only current alternatives are Windows-based. There will likely be very little cannibalization of the MB/MBP lines.
Excellent post, penchanted, especially this bit.
It's something that most around here don't seem to get - you shouldn't expect this machine to appeal to the current Apple installed base, because Apple haven't offered a machine anything like this for years. Only the most die-hard of Apple fans or Microsoft haters would have been buying MacBooks/iBooks when what they really wanted was an ultraportable - they would have bought an ultraportable!
..........................
This MacBook Air is already doing exceedingly well on the AppleStore..
How do you know?
Not shabby, I don't think. Probably exactly where Apple wanted it.