Sure, but the problem with the sub-DVD res, heavily compressed material Apple has been selling is that it looks particularly dreadful on exactly the kind of biggish, fixed resolution displays that consumers of their movie offerings are most likely to be viewing them on-- whereas the same stuff probably looks OK on smaller CRTs.
When the compression artifacts on SD material are already vexing, the scaling on the average LCD really makes it eye watering.
Which is why I why I wonder if the current state of the SD movies for sale, or rent, or both, have seen any improvement. Somehow it seems like, if Apple TV is going to come out of the shadows and put its best foot forward, Apple has to provide better quality SD stuff-- if for no other reason that the contrast is going to be particularly glaring next to HD material from the same store.
The stuff I saw when the Atv was introduced looked like a trial run-- just good enough to convey the concept. I don't think Apple can get away with that, now, if they're serious about making their movie business a winner (unless they figure SD video is going the same way as optical discs and ports, so they see no reason to put much effort into their SD encoding).
To a certain extent, what you're saying is true. But, I don't agree that it's a bad as you think.
The cross section of society doesn't know, and despite what they may say, doesn't really care. The few who do will wait until what they want is available on HD.
Look, 128 kb?s is really terrible. I can even hear problems with cheap earbuds. But Apple has now sold over 4 billion of them, and very few complain about the quality of the music, evwn though they may get better headphones to listen through.
Eventually, all video will be hi def, but the publuic isn't educated enough to care now for a quality level which is better than what they get over SD Tv.
And, in case you're wondering why I say it's better, it's simple.
Almost all viewing these days is done over cable, and satellite. Bothe compress the hell out of the signal, more than Apple is doing here.
In addition, there are transmission difficulties, esp with satellite, that show blocking. That won't happen here either.
The movies show less noise as well.
Overall, they look fine, if a bit softer than you may want. But with almost everyone sitting too far from their screen to tell, it really won't affect most people.
So then you do have proof of this? Because it sounds like you know for certain - like you've done it yourself, or you've seen the screen on the AppleTV that shows a rental being moved to iTunes. (I know you can do it from iTunes to iPod, but I'm saying you can't do it from AppleTV to iTunes, because that would be the higher, DVD-resolution rental which is not playable on the iPod.)
I'm sorry, I don't have absolute proof, but it's only thing that's consistent with all of what Apple has said, and all the information and screenshots that are out there, and I'm willing to bet on it. Are you? A friendly wager? You seem absolutely 100% certain, and I'm not, so it should be a good bet for you, right?
My belief is that Apple recognizes the exact problem that addabox is outlining, and so has upped the resolution for the ATv rentals, and put up a firewall between the ATv and iTunes so people don't try to put those videos on their ipods. But the problem still remains for purchased movies and TV shows, which are all at the lower resolution.
You're probably right. I just checked Job's presentation on the ATv and iTunes. It was pretty sure he had said that, but he didn't.
For some reason I can't find any information on Apple's ATv section about exactly what ATv does with the files. It does show that it will play all the files the computer plays, but that's it.
You're probably right. I just checked Job's presentation on the ATv and iTunes. It was pretty sure he had said that, but he didn't.
For some reason I can't find any information on Apple's ATv section about exactly what ATv does with the files. It does show that it will play all the files the computer plays, but that's it.
I watched it again, too. He does mention that purchased files will sync back to iTunes, but that is it. It is pretty shrewd the way it's all mentioned. Kudos to all who picked up on that.
I concede that my assumption of SD rentals via AppleTV could be synced back to iTunes and iDevices may indeed be absolutely incorrect.
I watched it again, too. He does mention that purchased files will sync back to iTunes, but that is it. It is pretty shrewd the way it's all mentioned. Kudos to all who picked up on that.
I concede that my assumption of SD rentals via AppleTV could be synced back to iTunes and iDevices may indeed be absolutely incorrect.
It was a short sequence. The time for the iTunes - ATv presentation was just a few minites. PC Mag has some sections of his presentation broken out, and viewable on their own, so it's easy to get to the right spot.
What happened was that he announced movie rentals on iTunes first. That's where he said that you could start watching the movie you rented at home, and then move it to your iPod to watch on the plane.
THEN he got into the ATv, and didn't mention it again, though he mentioned auto syncing back to your computer. That's where it becomes unclear.
Can we just sync back the Tv shows, music videos, and songs we purchased over ATv, or does it also sync back the movie rentals (presumably at 720 x 480), as well as the HD movies?
That's a question I didn't see specifically addressed by him.
So the question still remains. IF we have sync back to our computer of ALL files, including HD and SD movies, then can they then be moved (possibly being transcoded in the process) to the iPod/iPhone?
We won't know until the new ATV, and software upgrades, arrive.
It was a short sequence. The time for the iTunes - ATv presentation was just a few minites. PC Mag has some sections of his presentation broken out, and viewable on their own, so it's easy to get to the right spot.
What happened was that he announced movie rentals on iTunes first. That's where he said that you could start watching the movie you rented at home, and then move it to your iPod to watch on the plane.
THEN he got into the ATv, and didn't mention it again, though he mentioned auto syncing back to your computer. That's where it becomes unclear.
Can we just sync back the Tv shows, music videos, and songs we purchased over ATv, or does it also sync back the movie rentals (presumably at 720 x 480), as well as the HD movies?
That's a question I didn't see specifically addressed by him.
So the question still remains. IF we have sync back to our computer of ALL files, including HD and SD movies, then can they then be moved (possibly being transcoded in the process) to the iPod/iPhone?
We won't know until the new ATV, and software upgrades, arrive.
I presumed it was no syncing back of HD video because even though your computer can handle it it might cause some confusion with people thinking they can sync it to their iDevices. Of course they may of just said "no syncing back of any rented media" to make it even simpler. I guess we'll find out shortly.
So far I've been quite happy with the rentals, though I'm quite surprised that we alter the film's remain time by doing a simple time or date change. Apple must have thought of this. I'm thinking they did, but that the studios didn't so Apple hasn't bothered as of yet. Or perhaps it's something that needs more than update to iTunes and it will be rectified with 10.5.2.
I presumed it was no syncing back of HD video because even though your computer can handle it it might cause some confusion with people thinking they can sync it to their iDevices. Of course they may of just said "no syncing back of any rented media" to make it even simpler. I guess we'll find out shortly.
So far I've been quite happy with the rentals, though I'm quite surprised that we alter the film's remain time by doing a simple time or date change. Apple must have thought of this. I'm thinking they did, but that the studios didn't so Apple hasn't bothered as of yet. Or perhaps it's something that needs more than update to iTunes and it will be rectified with 10.5.2.
We'll see. But Im curious about it. Maybe not much more than a week to go before we find out. Though I'd like to be able to rent higher quality through my computer as well.
I didn't try the date thing though.
Did you try this, or did you read it? I'm asking because I'm curious to see whether changing the date back a week would then give a week to see it, or if it only works during the 24 hour period, but doesn't extend more than a day. If you have another rental, as mine already expired, perhaps you could see.
Did you try this, or did you read it? I'm asking because I'm curious to see whether changing the date back a week would then give a week to see it, or if it only works during the 24 hour period, but doesn't extend more than a day. If you have another rental, as mine already expired, perhaps you could see.
Read it and then tried it. Whether it is the 30 day or 24 hour expiration it will add the additional time. I did it for a few years, but you can do it for many more apparantly. The better way to do it is to set your time ahead—when you have nothing waiting because it will expire them permanently—and then set it back once you have the file downloaded. This will keep your time correct and give you the additional time.
Regarding AppleTV content resolution, at Macworld the Apple emps
demoed the three resolutions for widescreen at 1280x720p, the current
iTunes standard 640x360, and the new resolution for SD rentals --
720x480 anamorphic, just like DVD, but transcoded to H.264.
Thanks, that confirms what we've been speculating, and goes a way towards answering addabox's original question.
On moving rentals, I found this to confirm some of the speculation:
You can move the movie between devices as many times as you wish during the rental period, but the movie can only be played on one device at a time. If you rent the movie on your Apple TV, it is not transferable to any other device and you must watch it on your Apple TV.
I just rented another movie. My clock is correct and I'm getting a 5103 error. The didn't fix it they actually broke it. I'm not the only one. Anyone who has apparently altered their clock (unsure of timeframe) will be able to download the rental but not play it. This is very discouraging and sheds a darkness over the rentals. There is no resolution on Apple's site yet. I'll call tomorrow to find a solution.
DO NOT ADJUST YOUR CLOCK TO TEST THIS OUT ? DO NOT ADJUST YOUR CLOCK TO TEST THIS OUT ? DO NOT ADJUST YOUR CLOCK TO TEST THIS OUT ? DO NOT ADJUST YOUR CLOCK TO TEST THIS OUT ? DO NOT ADJUST YOUR CLOCK TO TEST THIS OUT ? DO NOT ADJUST YOUR CLOCK TO TEST THIS OUT ? DO NOT ADJUST YOUR CLOCK TO TEST THIS OUT ? DO NOT ADJUST YOUR CLOCK TO TEST THIS OUT ? DO NOT ADJUST YOUR CLOCK TO TEST THIS OUT
Since it went to check with iTunes before it gave the error, I wonder what would happen if you did that, disconnected the computer from the internet, and moved it to the iPod first, as that can't get to iTunes?
Does anyone if you rent iTunes movies that are playable on your iphone/computer, can you stream these to your AppleTV?
Maybe with the update, when you connect to a itunes account over the network, the "rentals" tab in iTunes will show up, and you'll be able to finish what you started on the big screen.
On a side note, how does streaming wirelessly work? I have an airport extreme N hooked up via ethernet to my appletv, and my G5 is wireless G. Would it help for streaming to have all my videos on my external drive, as an air-disk connected to my AEBS?
I don't understand why purchasing the film in HD on your Apple TV couldn't grant you free access to download an iPod-compatible version on your computer. Worse-case scenario, a user could extend their viewing time from 24 hours to 48 hours by starting the film in one place one day, and starting it in another the next, but what honestly is the harm in that? Throw people a freakin' bone here.
Does anyone if you rent iTunes movies that are playable on your iphone/computer, can you stream these to your AppleTV?
Yes, but only if you rent them from your computer first, and not from the AppleTV first. But not until the AppleTV update. (That seems like to be the general consensus, anyway)
Quote:
On a side note, how does streaming wirelessly work? I have an airport extreme N hooked up via ethernet to my appletv, and my G5 is wireless G. Would it help for streaming to have all my videos on my external drive, as an air-disk connected to my AEBS?
It certainly would be faster when AppleTV accessed the external HDD connected to the AEBS via Ethernet.
However, your iTunes Music folder (rentals are saved under Movies in that folder) would have to reside on that disk or it would still have to be transfered wirelessly from your G5 via 802.11g to the AEBS, then to the AppleTV via Ethernet.
I imagine the only difference would be a few seconds of delay for spooling the movie as 802.11g is certainly fast enough to accommodate a 1.5Mbps file.
So if I have iTunes referencing movies residing on my hard drive connected to AEBS, I should see a dramatic speed increase (compared to just over wirelessG), or not? Is itunes bypassed....appletv asks for the file, and it goes straight across ethernet, or does it go appletv to itunes/computer back to router then ethernet to appletv?
I'm not 100% sure as the software may change, but currently iTunes has to be open to allow AppleTV "Take 1" to stream content from a connected computer. Also, you won't see a "dramatic speed increase" as it'll start playing as soon as enough is queued, which should only be a couple seconds, certainly not enough time to keep you waiting. Now, if your G5 is already being bogged down with other tasks, especially heavy network traffic, then there will be a longer delay.
You can also synchronize files from one iTunes account. You can pick and choose, or set up the criteria you wish to sync as the AppleTV HDD may not hold your entire library. For example, you can choose the most recently un-played movies or TV Shows. I imagine this will be the same with movie rentals. Since it can't hold your entire library you can also stream from that computer too.
I hope they make this a little more seamless than in "Take 1" which required to go to Setting and switch from synced to streaming, even though it was the same computer. I hope they allow for the AppleTV to show all the media from the synced computer and then determine if it is a locally synced file or one that requires streaming.
Does anyone if you rent iTunes movies that are playable on your iphone/computer, can you stream these to your AppleTV?
It looks like you'll be able to do that, but if the intention is to watch them on your TV, it makes more sense to rent directly via AppleTV because the quality will be higher - the standard def is higher, not to mention HD.
Comments
Sure, but the problem with the sub-DVD res, heavily compressed material Apple has been selling is that it looks particularly dreadful on exactly the kind of biggish, fixed resolution displays that consumers of their movie offerings are most likely to be viewing them on-- whereas the same stuff probably looks OK on smaller CRTs.
When the compression artifacts on SD material are already vexing, the scaling on the average LCD really makes it eye watering.
Which is why I why I wonder if the current state of the SD movies for sale, or rent, or both, have seen any improvement. Somehow it seems like, if Apple TV is going to come out of the shadows and put its best foot forward, Apple has to provide better quality SD stuff-- if for no other reason that the contrast is going to be particularly glaring next to HD material from the same store.
The stuff I saw when the Atv was introduced looked like a trial run-- just good enough to convey the concept. I don't think Apple can get away with that, now, if they're serious about making their movie business a winner (unless they figure SD video is going the same way as optical discs and ports, so they see no reason to put much effort into their SD encoding).
To a certain extent, what you're saying is true. But, I don't agree that it's a bad as you think.
The cross section of society doesn't know, and despite what they may say, doesn't really care. The few who do will wait until what they want is available on HD.
Look, 128 kb?s is really terrible. I can even hear problems with cheap earbuds. But Apple has now sold over 4 billion of them, and very few complain about the quality of the music, evwn though they may get better headphones to listen through.
Eventually, all video will be hi def, but the publuic isn't educated enough to care now for a quality level which is better than what they get over SD Tv.
And, in case you're wondering why I say it's better, it's simple.
Almost all viewing these days is done over cable, and satellite. Bothe compress the hell out of the signal, more than Apple is doing here.
In addition, there are transmission difficulties, esp with satellite, that show blocking. That won't happen here either.
The movies show less noise as well.
Overall, they look fine, if a bit softer than you may want. But with almost everyone sitting too far from their screen to tell, it really won't affect most people.
I think it's an issue looking for an audience.
It doesn't matter what a few people think.
So then you do have proof of this? Because it sounds like you know for certain - like you've done it yourself, or you've seen the screen on the AppleTV that shows a rental being moved to iTunes. (I know you can do it from iTunes to iPod, but I'm saying you can't do it from AppleTV to iTunes, because that would be the higher, DVD-resolution rental which is not playable on the iPod.)
I'm sorry, I don't have absolute proof, but it's only thing that's consistent with all of what Apple has said, and all the information and screenshots that are out there, and I'm willing to bet on it. Are you? A friendly wager? You seem absolutely 100% certain, and I'm not, so it should be a good bet for you, right?
My belief is that Apple recognizes the exact problem that addabox is outlining, and so has upped the resolution for the ATv rentals, and put up a firewall between the ATv and iTunes so people don't try to put those videos on their ipods. But the problem still remains for purchased movies and TV shows, which are all at the lower resolution.
You're probably right. I just checked Job's presentation on the ATv and iTunes. It was pretty sure he had said that, but he didn't.
For some reason I can't find any information on Apple's ATv section about exactly what ATv does with the files. It does show that it will play all the files the computer plays, but that's it.
demoed the three resolutions for widescreen at 1280x720p, the current
iTunes standard 640x360, and the new resolution for SD rentals --
720x480 anamorphic, just like DVD, but transcoded to H.264.
See the AppleTV specs for the mention of official acceptance of 720x480 anamorphic.
480 vertical lines for SD makes a big difference for the common cinematic
2.35:1 aspect ratio, which presumably were/are shipped as 640x272 files
for non-AppleTV content.
Perhaps more important is the HD datarate (they would only say 5mbps max,
which would imply somewhat more than an hour of progressive-download buffering
for a 2-hour movie using 3.0mbps DSL, the max available in many areas.)
You're probably right. I just checked Job's presentation on the ATv and iTunes. It was pretty sure he had said that, but he didn't.
For some reason I can't find any information on Apple's ATv section about exactly what ATv does with the files. It does show that it will play all the files the computer plays, but that's it.
I watched it again, too. He does mention that purchased files will sync back to iTunes, but that is it. It is pretty shrewd the way it's all mentioned. Kudos to all who picked up on that.
I concede that my assumption of SD rentals via AppleTV could be synced back to iTunes and iDevices may indeed be absolutely incorrect.
I watched it again, too. He does mention that purchased files will sync back to iTunes, but that is it. It is pretty shrewd the way it's all mentioned. Kudos to all who picked up on that.
I concede that my assumption of SD rentals via AppleTV could be synced back to iTunes and iDevices may indeed be absolutely incorrect.
It was a short sequence. The time for the iTunes - ATv presentation was just a few minites. PC Mag has some sections of his presentation broken out, and viewable on their own, so it's easy to get to the right spot.
What happened was that he announced movie rentals on iTunes first. That's where he said that you could start watching the movie you rented at home, and then move it to your iPod to watch on the plane.
THEN he got into the ATv, and didn't mention it again, though he mentioned auto syncing back to your computer. That's where it becomes unclear.
Can we just sync back the Tv shows, music videos, and songs we purchased over ATv, or does it also sync back the movie rentals (presumably at 720 x 480), as well as the HD movies?
That's a question I didn't see specifically addressed by him.
So the question still remains. IF we have sync back to our computer of ALL files, including HD and SD movies, then can they then be moved (possibly being transcoded in the process) to the iPod/iPhone?
We won't know until the new ATV, and software upgrades, arrive.
It was a short sequence. The time for the iTunes - ATv presentation was just a few minites. PC Mag has some sections of his presentation broken out, and viewable on their own, so it's easy to get to the right spot.
What happened was that he announced movie rentals on iTunes first. That's where he said that you could start watching the movie you rented at home, and then move it to your iPod to watch on the plane.
THEN he got into the ATv, and didn't mention it again, though he mentioned auto syncing back to your computer. That's where it becomes unclear.
Can we just sync back the Tv shows, music videos, and songs we purchased over ATv, or does it also sync back the movie rentals (presumably at 720 x 480), as well as the HD movies?
That's a question I didn't see specifically addressed by him.
So the question still remains. IF we have sync back to our computer of ALL files, including HD and SD movies, then can they then be moved (possibly being transcoded in the process) to the iPod/iPhone?
We won't know until the new ATV, and software upgrades, arrive.
I presumed it was no syncing back of HD video because even though your computer can handle it it might cause some confusion with people thinking they can sync it to their iDevices. Of course they may of just said "no syncing back of any rented media" to make it even simpler. I guess we'll find out shortly.
So far I've been quite happy with the rentals, though I'm quite surprised that we alter the film's remain time by doing a simple time or date change. Apple must have thought of this. I'm thinking they did, but that the studios didn't so Apple hasn't bothered as of yet. Or perhaps it's something that needs more than update to iTunes and it will be rectified with 10.5.2.
I presumed it was no syncing back of HD video because even though your computer can handle it it might cause some confusion with people thinking they can sync it to their iDevices. Of course they may of just said "no syncing back of any rented media" to make it even simpler. I guess we'll find out shortly.
So far I've been quite happy with the rentals, though I'm quite surprised that we alter the film's remain time by doing a simple time or date change. Apple must have thought of this. I'm thinking they did, but that the studios didn't so Apple hasn't bothered as of yet. Or perhaps it's something that needs more than update to iTunes and it will be rectified with 10.5.2.
We'll see. But Im curious about it. Maybe not much more than a week to go before we find out. Though I'd like to be able to rent higher quality through my computer as well.
I didn't try the date thing though.
Did you try this, or did you read it? I'm asking because I'm curious to see whether changing the date back a week would then give a week to see it, or if it only works during the 24 hour period, but doesn't extend more than a day. If you have another rental, as mine already expired, perhaps you could see.
Did you try this, or did you read it? I'm asking because I'm curious to see whether changing the date back a week would then give a week to see it, or if it only works during the 24 hour period, but doesn't extend more than a day. If you have another rental, as mine already expired, perhaps you could see.
Read it and then tried it. Whether it is the 30 day or 24 hour expiration it will add the additional time. I did it for a few years, but you can do it for many more apparantly. The better way to do it is to set your time ahead—when you have nothing waiting because it will expire them permanently—and then set it back once you have the file downloaded. This will keep your time correct and give you the additional time.
Regarding AppleTV content resolution, at Macworld the Apple emps
demoed the three resolutions for widescreen at 1280x720p, the current
iTunes standard 640x360, and the new resolution for SD rentals --
720x480 anamorphic, just like DVD, but transcoded to H.264.
Thanks, that confirms what we've been speculating, and goes a way towards answering addabox's original question.
On moving rentals, I found this to confirm some of the speculation:
You can move the movie between devices as many times as you wish during the rental period, but the movie can only be played on one device at a time. If you rent the movie on your Apple TV, it is not transferable to any other device and you must watch it on your Apple TV.
http://www.macnn.com/articles/08/01/...tal.bug.fixed/
the current iTunes standard 640x360
Don't you mean 640x480?
Don't you mean 640x480?
I think it might depend on whether it was widescreen or not. 640x360 is 16:9.
They've already patched the date thing.
http://www.macnn.com/articles/08/01/...tal.bug.fixed/
I just rented another movie. My clock is correct and I'm getting a 5103 error. The didn't fix it they actually broke it. I'm not the only one. Anyone who has apparently altered their clock (unsure of timeframe) will be able to download the rental but not play it. This is very discouraging and sheds a darkness over the rentals. There is no resolution on Apple's site yet. I'll call tomorrow to find a solution.
DO NOT ADJUST YOUR CLOCK TO TEST THIS OUT ? DO NOT ADJUST YOUR CLOCK TO TEST THIS OUT ? DO NOT ADJUST YOUR CLOCK TO TEST THIS OUT ? DO NOT ADJUST YOUR CLOCK TO TEST THIS OUT ? DO NOT ADJUST YOUR CLOCK TO TEST THIS OUT ? DO NOT ADJUST YOUR CLOCK TO TEST THIS OUT ? DO NOT ADJUST YOUR CLOCK TO TEST THIS OUT ? DO NOT ADJUST YOUR CLOCK TO TEST THIS OUT ? DO NOT ADJUST YOUR CLOCK TO TEST THIS OUT
They've already patched the date thing.
http://www.macnn.com/articles/08/01/...tal.bug.fixed/
Too bad, but expected.
Since it went to check with iTunes before it gave the error, I wonder what would happen if you did that, disconnected the computer from the internet, and moved it to the iPod first, as that can't get to iTunes?
Ahh! They probably figured that out too.
Maybe with the update, when you connect to a itunes account over the network, the "rentals" tab in iTunes will show up, and you'll be able to finish what you started on the big screen.
On a side note, how does streaming wirelessly work? I have an airport extreme N hooked up via ethernet to my appletv, and my G5 is wireless G. Would it help for streaming to have all my videos on my external drive, as an air-disk connected to my AEBS?
Thanks...
Does anyone if you rent iTunes movies that are playable on your iphone/computer, can you stream these to your AppleTV?
Yes, but only if you rent them from your computer first, and not from the AppleTV first. But not until the AppleTV update. (That seems like to be the general consensus, anyway)
On a side note, how does streaming wirelessly work? I have an airport extreme N hooked up via ethernet to my appletv, and my G5 is wireless G. Would it help for streaming to have all my videos on my external drive, as an air-disk connected to my AEBS?
It certainly would be faster when AppleTV accessed the external HDD connected to the AEBS via Ethernet.
However, your iTunes Music folder (rentals are saved under Movies in that folder) would have to reside on that disk or it would still have to be transfered wirelessly from your G5 via 802.11g to the AEBS, then to the AppleTV via Ethernet.
I imagine the only difference would be a few seconds of delay for spooling the movie as 802.11g is certainly fast enough to accommodate a 1.5Mbps file.
Thanks, sorry if its a little confusing.
You can also synchronize files from one iTunes account. You can pick and choose, or set up the criteria you wish to sync as the AppleTV HDD may not hold your entire library. For example, you can choose the most recently un-played movies or TV Shows. I imagine this will be the same with movie rentals. Since it can't hold your entire library you can also stream from that computer too.
I hope they make this a little more seamless than in "Take 1" which required to go to Setting and switch from synced to streaming, even though it was the same computer. I hope they allow for the AppleTV to show all the media from the synced computer and then determine if it is a locally synced file or one that requires streaming.
Does anyone if you rent iTunes movies that are playable on your iphone/computer, can you stream these to your AppleTV?
It looks like you'll be able to do that, but if the intention is to watch them on your TV, it makes more sense to rent directly via AppleTV because the quality will be higher - the standard def is higher, not to mention HD.