First Look: Apple's new MacBook Air (with photos and video)

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  • Reply 101 of 186
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by JeffDM View Post


    1 & 2 They didn't show the guts of the screen side. There may be antennas and other things in that "wasted space". The screen backlight setup could be forcing a certain geometry. They might be showing a simplified diagram.

    3 It's a difference of about a hair's thickness. I highly doubt you can see the difference in footprint relative to the MB. I'm almost certain you couldn't even measure the difference in length and width unless you happened to own a caliper big enough to measure those dimensions.

    4 PB was twice as thick and only had an XGA screen.



    Bottom line is the space on left and right adds nothing to screen or keyboard. So if it could be compressed, you could have a narrower computer. PB using a new LED would not be 2x thick. It would be closer to .8, especially with no optical drive. Oh and it had 2 speakers.
  • Reply 102 of 186
    jeffdmjeffdm Posts: 12,953member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by NYCMacFan View Post


    Bottom line is the space on left and right adds nothing to screen or keyboard.



    The real bottom line is that you either did not read or did not comprehend what I posted.



    Quote:

    So if it could be compressed, you could have a narrower computer.



    You don't know what the change in backlight really does to the panel shape. Or whether or not there are other things in that "void" that were not shown in the presentation. Even technical graphics often leave out items not important to the point of the graphic , so I think it's bad to assert that there is nothing there only based on the keynote.



    Quote:

    PB using a new LED would not be 2x thick. It would be closer to .8, especially with no optical drive.



    You're saying that a 12" powerbook with LED and no optical would be thinner than MacBook Air?



    Quote:

    Oh and



    Please do not use that expression. It does not help you look like you know what you are saying, it does the opposite.
  • Reply 103 of 186
    junkiejunkie Posts: 122member
    When the iMac came out people freaked out because it did not have ADB, a Floppy or SCSI. I remember that I kept having to post - this computer is not for you - relax. If you need that stuff, don't buy it. But there was a market for the iMac. My parents got one. They did not know what was missing, they just liked it, used it for years and moved on. They never needed a floppy or SCSI.



    My friend's Dad is interested in an Air. He has a pb12 and was going to get a Macbook but was waiting to see what came out. I asked him to check how much disk space he has used after years on the PB 12, he has used 15 gig of the 60 gig drive. He does not need to upgrade but the Intel machines are faster and the built-in cam is nice for grandkids. An Air is great for him. He travels a lot. 80 gig is fine for him. One USB, its not going to be a problem. I don't think he uses his optical much and I just told him to buy the super drive - at $99 it a great deal.



    The thing I am really impressed with about the Air is that when closed it is very compact but when opened it has a really nice, useable screen, very nice crisp legible keyboard. Its really a nice form factor for simple use.



    People freaking out here are probably not the target for this computer. This computer is great for people who want something really small, depend on a computer but are not pushing it to the limit. They do email, web. A lot of people don't even know that they can watch a dvd on their computer. They are not running Final Cut Pro. They would never think to have an extra battery - I never have had a second myself. So calm down.



    So many people out there barely scratch the surface of what they can do with a computer, but they can still appreciate that a computer is small, light, fast, has a nice screen and was not a hassle to bring along with them where ever they went. For them, a computer that is the same size as a notepad but more useful - that is compelling. When they get home from their trip it backs itself up automatically, wirelessly - sorry what is the problem? If they want to watch a movie they just rent it, watch it and it disappears. Lovely. You think they are better off dealing with Netflix?



    Bluetooth mouse is nice while traveling. At home I have an ethernet printer. Its awesome. Why do I need so much USB anyway?



    So please stop freaking out over this model. Its not like the others are not available.



    And to the person who has a 12 and wants a full function, compact computer with Intel - why don't you just get a black Macbook? Its exactly what you are asking for. Its .4 lb heavier than your 12 with a bigger screen. Big deal.
  • Reply 104 of 186
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by NYCMacFan View Post


    Easy.

    1. Tapering of case shows little is in there.

    2. The look at the inside in Steve job's presentation.

    3. The fact that the EXISTING macbook is already has slightly less width and length.

    4. Oh and that they fit a full computer into the old 12inch powerbook in less of a footprint.



    You missed the possibility that that space is necessary to provide structural integrity.



    When you make something thinner, it's more apt to bend and flex. From what I've read, they needed some material to provide stiffness for the case.



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by NYCMacFan View Post


    Does this mean that I spend $2,000 on a laptop that supposedly didn't compromise and I can't watch a video on itunes in my hotel room without using headphones? The sound had better work on this.



    Who says this doesn't compromise? The whole point of this is minimal size and weight - by definition, there is a ton of compromise involved. It's just a question of which compromise is the smart one. And there is a speaker, what makes you think it doesn't work?
  • Reply 105 of 186
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by JeffDM View Post


    The real bottom line is that you either did not read or did not comprehend what I posted.



    You don't know what the change in backlight really does to the panel shape. Or whether or not there are other things in that "void" that were not shown in the presentation.



    You're saying that a 12" powerbook with LED and no optical would be thinner than MacBook Air?



    Please do not use that expression. It does not help you look like you know what you are saying, it does the opposite.



    Very easily understood your point. Odd to complain about my expressions with "you did not read or did not comprehend" in yours.



    My point is that a keyboard or screen size is a pure constraint on size. Then the footprint, can't be shrunk. You can't go less than 11inches with a full sized keyboard. That is an absolute. But they go closer to 13inches. Why?



    You can look at LEDs from rival brands and see less space on either side of the screen. See pic of the Toshiba R500 below (you know the full sized keyboard, 1.75 lb core2duo machine with LED screen and SSD).



    By thw way, 0.8 is not thinner than the MBA. The MBA is .76. 0.8 is about where a MBP could be without an optical drive or a MB with a non-plastic case could be. Also see Toshiba R500.



    Now I assume something is in that space. But my point is that if you sacrificed some thinness in the tapering, you create more space closer to the track pad. Given no clear constraint on width caused by a screen or a keyboard, ergo it is reasonable to assume that a laptop that was .76 or .8 in thickness across the board without tapering would have space that could be used.



    This is not a new or an earth shattering point. Go examine the dimensions of the Toshiba or Panasonic lines and you can see they fit it all in a smaller footprint.



    Their issue is that they either opt for a 12 or 14 inch screen. But there is no logical reason when you look inside the Toshiba R500 that Apple could not have shaved 1inch off the width. They are 2inch narrower with a 12inch widescreen. So wouldn't Apple only need 1inch more for a 13inch. . Again that is like what .78 or .8 in thickness.



    That Toshiba uses a 2.5inch drive or an SSD, a Core 2 duo processor, motherboard, detachable battery. Its dimensions are 11.1 x 8.5 x .77 (front) and 1 inch (rear). It has a 120GB drive at 5400 rpm (believe it is a 2.5). When they remove an optical drive and use an SSD it is not 1.75lbs.



    Do you have any reason to believe if you just changed the screen to 13.3, it would need to add a full 2 inches in width and 1.25lbs in weight?



  • Reply 106 of 186
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by minderbinder View Post


    You missed the possibility that that space is necessary to provide structural integrity.



    When you make something thinner, it's more apt to bend and flex. From what I've read, they needed some material to provide stiffness for the case.



    Who says this doesn't compromise? The whole point of this is minimal size and weight - by definition, there is a ton of compromise involved. It's just a question of which compromise is the smart one. And there is a speaker, what makes you think it doesn't work?



    1. I agree that it may be a reinforcement issue and my hope is that this explains why it is .5 lbs heavier than it should be given the weights of the various component.

    2. Panasonic and Toshiba are equally light and still have reasonable sound (but going to point 1, they do have lots of flex). I will have to wait and see on Apple's sound.

    3. Recall Apple argued that they did not compromise with it. I'd argue that sacrificing ports and an optical drive is no big deal at all. But I wonder if they opted for a thin tapering case that led to undue width and depth and the loss of a good speaker.
  • Reply 107 of 186
    tbagginstbaggins Posts: 2,306member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Bergermeister View Post


    I don't follow the markets at all, but the curve on this graph shows things going down until March, when they start going up again.



    http://finance.yahoo.com/q/bc?s=AAPL&t=1y



    This one shows a very brief spike, followed by an abrupt drop.

    http://finance.yahoo.com/q/bc?s=AAPL...=on&z=m&q=l&c=



    Can't pinpoint dates.







    Well, Macworld was earlier in the month last year, so a 1-yr chart doesn't do much good. Let's try a 2-yr one, size large:













    As you can see, from early though mid-January '07, the stock went up. The 2007 Macworld Keynote was on January 9.









    .
  • Reply 108 of 186
    solipsismsolipsism Posts: 25,726member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by minderbinder View Post


    You missed the possibility that that space is necessary to provide structural integrity

    Who says this doesn't compromise? The whole point of this is minimal size and weight - by definition, there is a ton of compromise involved. It's just a question of which compromise is the smart one. And there is a speaker, what makes you think it doesn't work?



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by JeffDM View Post


    1 & 2 They didn't show the guts of the screen side. There may be antennas and other things in that "wasted space". The screen backlight setup could be forcing a certain geometry. They might be showing a simplified diagram.

    3 It's a difference of about a hair's thickness. I highly doubt you can see the difference in footprint relative to the MB. I'm almost certain you couldn't even measure the difference in length and width unless you happened to own a caliper big enough to measure those dimensions.

    4 PB was twice as thick and only had an XGA screen.



    Come on, Dudes! NYCMacFan is a guy on the internet so of course he understands what can and can't be done better than the dozens of Apple engineers who have been working on this project for the past year.
  • Reply 109 of 186
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by solipsism View Post


    Come on, Dudes! NYCMacFan is a guy on the internet so of course he understands what can and can't be done better than the dozens of Apple engineers who have been working on this project for the past year.



    No Just what Panasonic, Toshiba and of course those former Apple engineers that did the 12inch PB could do.
  • Reply 110 of 186
    tbagginstbaggins Posts: 2,306member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by NYCMacFan


    Oh and



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by JeffDM View Post


    Please do not use that expression. It does not help you look like you know what you are saying, it does the opposite.





    Lighten up and stop bullying the man. "Oh and" is just conversational speech. His use of it does not harm his credibility one whit, but you taking him to task over it does make you seem a tad anal.



    .
  • Reply 111 of 186
    jeffdmjeffdm Posts: 12,953member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by TBaggins View Post


    Lighten up and stop bullying the man. "Oh and" is just conversational speech. His use of it does not harm his credibility one whit, but you taking him to task over it does make you seem a tad anal.



    I complain about it just once and I'm bullying? The problem I have is that it looks really dumb when written. I think it sounds dumb when spoken too, but that's a different matter. I think it shows a difficulty in constructing thoughts, and it seems to show in other ways too.





    But with regards to the practicality and whether there is any "wasted space" I think we will have to defer to Kodawarisan when they do a tear-down.
  • Reply 112 of 186
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by JeffDM View Post


    I complain about it just once and I'm bullying? The problem I have is that it looks really dumb when written. I think it sounds dumb when spoken too, but that's a different matter. I think it shows a difficulty in constructing thoughts, and it seems to show in other ways too.





    But with regards to the practicality and whether there is any "wasted space" I think we will have to defer to Kodawarisan when they do a tear-down.



    I wrote it because that's how people speak and it sounds like a more honest conversational colloquialism. And we are typing fast. I'm a college professor and happy with writing skills, though one should always strive to do better.



    Please bear in mind, these are my honest comments and I really do think that this tapered effect was more costly than people realize.



    I love Apple's OS and will still probably buy the MBA. Work is paying and so I may even get the SSD.



    But I do believe it could have been delivered a touch lighter and with a touch smaller footprint. And again, I think their calls on not having an optical port, reducing the number of ports, and sticking with a 13inch screen and a full sized keyboard were all correct. I'd also give them credit for going with a low voltage 1.6/1.8 processor over an ultra low voltage (ULV and an SSD might have allowed a slightly smaller battery and more weight/space savings.)



    I just do think a lot of us do have some minimum sound/volume expectations and that a touch smaller in return for a more brick like design would still have been appealing. I think their was a sacrifice for form here. I also readily admit that the greater size may offer greater rigidity. But I thick a more brick like design might still be able to accomplish that.
  • Reply 113 of 186
    tbagginstbaggins Posts: 2,306member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by JeffDM View Post


    I complain about it just once and I'm bullying? The problem I have is that it looks really dumb when written. I think it sounds dumb when spoken too, but that's a different matter. I think it shows a difficulty in constructing thoughts, and it seems to show in other ways too.



    Complaining about something like that looks far dumber to me than the original phrase. \



    Sorry Jeff, I respect you otherwise (you are likely one of the Top 10 smartest folks here), but not when you're being anal.





    .
  • Reply 114 of 186
    tbagginstbaggins Posts: 2,306member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by NYCMacFan View Post


    I wrote it because that's how people speak and it sounds like a more honest conversational colloquialism. And we are typing fast. I'm a college professor and happy with writing skills, though one should always strive to do better.



    Please bear in mind, these are my honest comments and I really do think that this tapered effect was more costly than people realize.



    I love Apple's OS and will still probably buy the MBA. Work is paying and so I may even get the SSD.



    But I do believe it could have been delivered a touch lighter and with a touch smaller footprint. And again, I think their calls on not having an optical port, reducing the number of ports, and sticking with a 13inch screen and a full sized keyboard were all correct. I'd also give them credit for going with a low voltage 1.6/1.8 processor over an ultra low voltage (ULV and an SSD might have allowed a slightly smaller battery and more weight/space savings.)



    I just do think a lot of us do have some minimum sound/volume expectations and that a touch smaller in return for a more brick like design would still have been appealing. I think their was a sacrifice for form here. I also readily admit that the greater size may offer greater rigidity. But I thick a more brick like design might still be able to accomplish that.





    Very reasonably said. And I agree that Apple likely made a compromise or two in favor of upping the 'sexay' quotient. Not that I don't like 'teh sexay'.



    Hey Jeff, I just used 'net slang. That's far worse than 'oh and'. Wanna shoot me?



    Edit- Oh noes. I just used 'wanna'. Unforgivable. Aurghhhhhhhhhhhh....



    .
  • Reply 115 of 186
    solipsismsolipsism Posts: 25,726member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by NYCMacFan View Post


    No Just what Panasonic, Toshiba and of course those former Apple engineers that did the 12inch PB could do.



    So you want a 4:3 notebook?



    I'd say that Apple knows that the public would look upon a 4:3 display as going backwards, not forwards. On a plane, train or automobile you have plenty of vertical space but very limited horizontal space. This makes, as I have said many times on this forum, that anything under 13" would need to go back to 4:3 as a small widescreen is only good for watching movies and not reading webpages in a comfortable fashion. You can disagree as it is just my opinion, but I think it would be hard pressed to find a market for such a small display.











    The .3" Sony X505 (below, right) from 4 years ago had a 4:3 ratio screen which allos for much better viewing of text.







    Note: All these machines have approximately the same size border around the display so perhaps the case could have been smaller on the bottom.... just not the top. \
  • Reply 116 of 186
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by solipsism View Post


    So you want a 4:3 notebook?



    I'd say that Apple knows that the public would look upon a 4:3 display as going backwards, not forwards.



    I love 4:3 as it optmizied for typing and surfing, but I do agree that would be looking backward. I think in widescreen you do need 13.3 or you lack usable vertical space and so I suport the Apple choice of screens.



    My point was on the overall real estate inside the 12inch PB case. They fit a lot in a small case and that was 4 years ago. Apple now has a smaller motherboard and chip given its work with Intel and 1.8 inch drives. I especially wonder whether the new MBA could have been 11.5 instead of 12.5inches from end to end if they had chosen to keep it at .76 all around.
  • Reply 117 of 186
    solipsismsolipsism Posts: 25,726member
    I wonder if Apple will be pushing digital download software purchases via iTunes and/or the Apple Store to help pull customers away from DVD media. I'm not saying that DVD titles won't still be available for purchase, but for Apple to truly embrace it as a '"revolution" they will need to offer an alternative



    Could this be done with an OS?

    There would be some obstacles but these could be tackled with some automation of the abilities already found in Leopard. The current OS would have to check to see if the purchase has enough disk space remaining for the DL and install. Then it would have to dynamically create a temp partition for the installation files to reside in case you want to format & install instead of upgrading. (You can do this Leopard's Disk Utility so there is no reason why it can't be transparent to the user) Upon clicking the install button you would be asked to restart—just like the install DVD—and it would goes through the installation as if there was a disc in the optical drive.



    Just a thought...
  • Reply 118 of 186
    tbagginstbaggins Posts: 2,306member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by NYCMacFan View Post


    I love 4:3 as it optmizied for typing and surfing, but I do agree that would be looking backward. I think in widescreen you do need 13.3 or you lack usable vertical space and so I suport the Apple choice of screens.



    I myself am torn. I love 4:3 for most things (esp. Word and the web), but widescreen for watching DVDs, something I do a lot on my notebook (OMG... I'm someone who actually USES THEIR OPTICAL DRIVE! Heretic! Leper outcast unclean! ).



    I kinda wish they could all be 3:2, but whatev. Just as long as they aren't 16:9. I don't like having so little vertical space to work in. Even the current 16:10 kinda annoys me, and that's with the dock on the side. \



    .
  • Reply 119 of 186
    solipsismsolipsism Posts: 25,726member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Untouchable View Post


    I myself am torn. I love 4:3 for most things (esp. Word and the web), but widescreen for watching DVDs, something I do a lot on my notebook (OMG... I'm someone who actually USES THEIR OPTICAL DRIVE! Heretic! Leper outcast unclean! ).



    I kinda wish they could all be 3:2, but whatev. Just as long as they aren't 16:9. I don't like having so little vertical space to work in. Even the current 16:10 kinda annoys me, and that's with the dock on the side. \



    Me too. Remember the Macs that were taller than they were wide, matching a sheet of notebook paper. That made sense back then! Who would have thought the screen would be turn 90˚ and stretched out even wider.
  • Reply 120 of 186
    solipsismsolipsism Posts: 25,726member
    "Earlier this week Apple announced its MacBook Air, and within hours we had the mystery of its "60% smaller" CPU uncovered. Or at least we thought.



    It turns out there's even more depth to the CPU in the MacBook Air, it's even less conventional than we originally thought. Here's what happened over the past couple of days."
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