True, you are stating a price. Anyone can state a price.
You are, in addition, presenting it as representative.
WRONG. YOU again are misinterpreting what I am saying because once again I am not implying that this is the toal priceing but merely a price. I am merely stating that it exists, as it indeed does. You are interpreting it to be a represtantative price, whatever in you mind that means. What you really mean to say is that anyone can state an inaccurate price -except that mine is totally accurate. By your rationale if I am misrepresentating the price than so are you.
WRONG. YOU again are misinterpreting what I am saying because once again I am not implying that this is the toal priceing but merely a price. I am merely stating that it exists, as it indeed does. You are interpreting it to be a represtantative price, whatever in you mind that means. What you really mean to say is that anyone can state an inaccurate price -except that mine is totally accurate. By your rationale if I am misrepresentating the price than so are you.
What you were doing was stating that the MacBook air was$3,000 in such a way that it was the starting price...which it isn't. It is the price of a variation of the air with many (if not all) of the available upgrades and options. Yes, it is offered directly on the website but that is to facilitate shipping needs. It is not, however, the base model and it certainly isn't the model Apple expects people to die.
That is like saying the iPod touch is $499 (haha which you DID!). It is AVAILABLE with 4 times the memory of the base model for $499 but to state that the iPod touch is $499 without specifying that this is the 32 Gig variation represents that the base is that expensive. And that just isn't cool.
If you REALLY can't understand that, well then...wow.
What you were doing was stating that the MacBook air was$3,000 in such a way that it was the starting price...which it isn't. It is the price of a variation of the air with many (if not all) of the available upgrades and options. Yes, it is offered directly on the website but that is to facilitate shipping needs. It is not, however, the base model and it certainly isn't the model Apple expects people to die.
If you REALLY can't understand that, well then...wow.
Again that is your interpretation and misrepresentation of what I said. You 're the one that doesn't REALLY doesn't understand what I am saying. OK- let me put is a little easier for you to understand :the average price of a MacBookAir is $2,500 - how is that for you?! Can you deny this? one plus one divided by two equals an average. If I can't state the top price then you can state the bottom price . And there are no other price differentials in base models- are there? And you have no way of knowing at this time which is going to sell more of the models and say that that you do because you don't. YOu don't now the base any more than anybody else. And $2,500 is still too high for any new laptop to be introduced in 2008 especially with those specs no matter how light it is. And I am not the sole person saying this.
WRONG. YOU again are misinterpreting what I am saying because once again I am not implying that this is the toal priceing but merely a price. I am merely stating that it exists, as it indeed does. You are interpreting it to be a represtantative price, whatever in you mind that means. What you really mean to say is that anyone can state an inaccurate price -except that mine is totally accurate. By your rationale if I am misrepresentating the price than so are you.
No, the objective observer would think exactly what I think.
OK- let me put is a little easier for you to understand :the average price of a MacBookAir is $2,500 - how is that for you?! Can you deny this?
Quite easily. Clearly, the SSD is not going to sell more (but if it does that must mean it's an awfully good deal, huh?) I think it's safe to say that the mean selling price will be far closer to $1799 than $3100. In fact, I'd bet money that the median sale price will be $1799, or perhaps $1898 if adding the superdrive is a popular option.
• Flounder is correct. teckstud started with the simplest statement which would lead most people to interpret as a starting price of 3,000 dollars. Further, teckstud retains deniability {of stating specifically base price} by using such a simple statement allowing him to provoke an argument. Which he has dragged into all sorts of insignificant points to inflame and distort. A very simple trap indeed.
• This February event does not come as a surprise to me. I thought SJ noted that the iPhone SDK would be released this month. I'm looking forward to this, and I wonder how this is going to fit in with the bigger picture with the Android platform. Some form of cross-compatibility?
• Just registered with AI. Long time reader [≈ 4 years], first time posting.
• Flounder is correct. teckstud started with the simplest statement which would lead most people to interpret as a starting price of 3,000 dollars. Further, teckstud retains deniability {of stating specifically base price} by using such a simple statement allowing him to provoke an argument. Which he has dragged into all sorts of insignificant points to inflame and distort. A very simple trap indeed.
.
Thank you for your analysis however flawed and simplistic it may be.
Again why do you infer to deny that Apple introduced a new $3,100 laptop? Would you state that Apple's iPod price is $79 if some asked you how much an iPod cost- as in a shuffle?
If I 'm wrong than so are you- you're low balling it as much as I'm high balling it.
Thank you for your analysis however flawed and simplistic it may be.
Again why do you infer to deny that Apple introduced a new $3,100 laptop? Would you state that Apple's iPod price is $79 if some asked you how much an iPod cost- as in a shuffle?
If I 'm wrong than so are you- you're low balling it as much as I'm high balling it.
No. You missed Flounder's point.
If 20 people buy the 1798 MacBook Air and 1 person buys the 3100 SSD version, then the average price is $1860. To say the MacBook Air is a $3100 machine without qualifying that statement is a flat-out lie. It is intended to deceive and skew.
Thank you for your analysis however flawed and simplistic it may be.
Again why do you infer to deny that Apple introduced a new $3,100 laptop? Would you state that Apple's iPod price is $79 if some asked you how much an iPod cost- as in a shuffle?
If I 'm wrong than so are you- you're low balling it as much as I'm high balling it.
Pray-tell how is my analysis flawed? That the base model will almost assuredly be the most popular? That when one asks about average price, it's the average of what is actually sold? It's sure as heck a lock more accurate than your bizarre definition of average where sales don't matter and you split the difference between only two of the possible configurations.
No, I'm not wrong. iPod is quite clearly is a general term that consists of a whole ecosystem of different products.
If someone asked me how much an iPod cost, I'd ask which kind. It would be just like someone asking how much a mac cost. You'd ask which kind. So, your analogy is illogical and comes up woefully short.
If someone asked me how much a macbook air costs, I'd say it starts at 1800, because that's what you do, start with the base price.
You, on the other hand, harp in thread after thread that the MBA is a $3000 machine, which, once again, is a distorted fact.
Thank you for your analysis however flawed and simplistic it may be.
Again why do you infer to deny that Apple introduced a new $3,100 laptop? Would you state that Apple's iPod price is $79 if some asked you how much an iPod cost- as in a shuffle?
If I 'm wrong than so are you- you're low balling it as much as I'm high balling it.
And no, you don't. You ask how much is an iPod Nano? How much is an iPod Classic? How much is an iPod Touch? If someone asks how much an iPod is, you ask which one. And usually you tell them the starting price, not the price for the most expensive model.
No, the objective observer would think exactly what I think.
Quote:
Originally Posted by teckstud
Thank you for your analysis however flawed and simplistic it may be.
Again why do you infer to deny that Apple introduced a new $3,100 laptop? Would you state that Apple's iPod price is $79 if some asked you how much an iPod cost- as in a shuffle?
If I 'm wrong than so are you- you're low balling it as much as I'm high balling it.
#1: For the analysis however flawed or simplistic it may be? Well, the problem is that your initial statement itself was simplistic, had only one accurate statement in it [a possible price], but presented in a way that would lead people to believe that you are implying that it is the starting price. You didn't have to say it explicitly for that interpretation to be drawn, and you probable had full knowledge that it would be provocative to members on the board. You did the minimum to cover yourself. I see no one defending your statements.
#2: No one here has denied that the MacBook Air's price with additions can inflate the price above 3,000. No one would deny that I could inflate the Mac Pro's price to 15,000. No one is debating the numbers, so that is not a valid comeback to anything me or Flounder has brought up. It is how you stated them, that is what the discussion is on.
#3: On iPod pricing, you are assuming that I'd pick a particular model of iPod, despite there being many. When posed that question, I'd describe the whole array of iPods, features and pricing. The MacBook Air is a niche product, and hence does not have another comparable product {within the Apple line} so you'd state the base price. The base price along with its associated features is the most helpful information that you can provide, and if more is needed, then work your way up. If asked about the Apple laptops in general, you start with the MacBook, and if a better graphics card is needed, then you go onto the MBP. You start low end not high end. Hence why making your first statement with 3,000 price tag was unhelpful and misleading as the first thought is that it is the base price. Regardless of intentions, whether it be carelessness, or the desire for an argument.
Edit: Dang, beaten to the punch by Tonton and Flounder. gg :-)
QFT. Seriously teckstud, get over it. I don't know what you are trying to compensate for but let me give you a little hint. When the whole board disagrees with you...you are wrong!
If someone asked me how much an iPod cost, I have enough intelligence to ask them which one or perhaps even say "Depending on which model you want, they can cost anywhere from $79 to $499." By your logic, we should tell them that if we are asked that, we should say $499 and in no way clarify.
Apple didn't introduce a laptop that costs $3100. That statement alone implies (to anyone who understands who to write and read) that this is the starting price. Apple produced a $1800 laptop that can upgrade to cost $3100 and they keep this option available for quicker shipping. If someone asked me how much the MacBook air was, I say $1800 not $3100.
Seriously, I can't figure out if you are trying to be a jerk or is really this simple? It really baffles me.
QFT. Seriously teckstud, get over it. I don't know what you are trying to compensate for but let me give you a little hint. When the whole board disagrees with you...you are wrong!
QFT. Seriously teckstud, get over it. I don't know what you are trying to compensate for but let me give you a little hint. When the whole board disagrees with you...you are wrong!
Excuse if I come across to pedantic here but having an entire group disagree with you doesn't make you wrong. If Teckstud is unable to prove his point then he has two viable options. He can either drop the subject altogether or attempt to come at it from n entirely different perspective.
That said, I agree with your logic and examples in regard to Teckstud's argument, Rozilla.
Well , let''s see, we just got the$3,000 MacBookAir and the $500 iPod- so what's next a $4,000 iMac and $5,000 MacBookPro?
Seriously they need to stop the hemorrhaging fast- yesterday AAPL @ $119?????
MY ORIGINAL QUOTE ABOVE.
FOR THE ULTRA-SENSITIVE BOARD I OFFER MY REVISION:
Well , let''s see, Apple just introduced an $1,800 and $3,100 MacBookAir and a $500 iTouch(*) and a $500 iPhone(*). So what's next- a $2,000 and $4,000 iMac and a $3,000 and $5,000 MacBookPro- (ALL CONFIGURED FOR SUPER EASY ORDERING- ALL MAJOR LOANS ACCEPTED)?
(*)- Less expensive versions of both models do exist but have not had a price reduction even though they are over six months old.
Apple needs to introduce more affordable products not more expensive and help reverse the declining AAPL @ $119 Thursday.
Your so-called, self- anointed "board" needs some serious, sensitivity training and fast.
FOR THE ULTRA-SENSITIVE BOARD I OFFER MY REVISION:
Well , let''s see, Apple just introduced an $1,800 and $3,100 MacBookAir and a $500 iTouch - so what's next a $2,000 and $4,000 iMac and $3,000 and $5,000 MacBookPro- (ALL CONFIGURED FOR SUPER EASY ORDERING- ALL MAJOR LOANS ACCEPTED)?
Apple needs to release more affordable products not more expensive and help reverse the declining AAPL @ $119 Thursday.
Your so-called, self- anointed "board" needs some serious, sensitivity training and fast.
Ladies and gentleman , I give you the "board":
? That is absurd. Prices go up as you upgrade or add technology to. You are either upset that Apple doesn't cater enough to your low end market (in which case go buy a PC), upset that Apple makes high end products, or your upset Apple's stock is dropping, but that has nothing to do with "expensive" products Apple currently offers.
? If Apple were to release low end stuff, they wouldn't have as good of margins on it as they do with their other product lines. So it wouldn't help out the stock price that much.
? Absurdity [in examples or statements] is not a counter argument.
? Board is not ultra sensitive, we just don't take crap. Crap from me, you or anyone. The board doesn't need to.
Comments
True, you are stating a price. Anyone can state a price.
You are, in addition, presenting it as representative.
WRONG. YOU again are misinterpreting what I am saying because once again I am not implying that this is the toal priceing but merely a price. I am merely stating that it exists, as it indeed does. You are interpreting it to be a represtantative price, whatever in you mind that means. What you really mean to say is that anyone can state an inaccurate price -except that mine is totally accurate. By your rationale if I am misrepresentating the price than so are you.
WRONG. YOU again are misinterpreting what I am saying because once again I am not implying that this is the toal priceing but merely a price. I am merely stating that it exists, as it indeed does. You are interpreting it to be a represtantative price, whatever in you mind that means. What you really mean to say is that anyone can state an inaccurate price -except that mine is totally accurate. By your rationale if I am misrepresentating the price than so are you.
What you were doing was stating that the MacBook air was$3,000 in such a way that it was the starting price...which it isn't. It is the price of a variation of the air with many (if not all) of the available upgrades and options. Yes, it is offered directly on the website but that is to facilitate shipping needs. It is not, however, the base model and it certainly isn't the model Apple expects people to die.
That is like saying the iPod touch is $499 (haha which you DID!). It is AVAILABLE with 4 times the memory of the base model for $499 but to state that the iPod touch is $499 without specifying that this is the 32 Gig variation represents that the base is that expensive. And that just isn't cool.
If you REALLY can't understand that, well then...wow.
What you were doing was stating that the MacBook air was$3,000 in such a way that it was the starting price...which it isn't. It is the price of a variation of the air with many (if not all) of the available upgrades and options. Yes, it is offered directly on the website but that is to facilitate shipping needs. It is not, however, the base model and it certainly isn't the model Apple expects people to die.
If you REALLY can't understand that, well then...wow.
Again that is your interpretation and misrepresentation of what I said. You 're the one that doesn't REALLY doesn't understand what I am saying. OK- let me put is a little easier for you to understand :the average price of a MacBookAir is $2,500 - how is that for you?! Can you deny this? one plus one divided by two equals an average. If I can't state the top price then you can state the bottom price . And there are no other price differentials in base models- are there? And you have no way of knowing at this time which is going to sell more of the models and say that that you do because you don't. YOu don't now the base any more than anybody else. And $2,500 is still too high for any new laptop to be introduced in 2008 especially with those specs no matter how light it is. And I am not the sole person saying this.
WRONG. YOU again are misinterpreting what I am saying because once again I am not implying that this is the toal priceing but merely a price. I am merely stating that it exists, as it indeed does. You are interpreting it to be a represtantative price, whatever in you mind that means. What you really mean to say is that anyone can state an inaccurate price -except that mine is totally accurate. By your rationale if I am misrepresentating the price than so are you.
No, the objective observer would think exactly what I think.
OK- let me put is a little easier for you to understand :the average price of a MacBookAir is $2,500 - how is that for you?! Can you deny this?
Quite easily. Clearly, the SSD is not going to sell more (but if it does that must mean it's an awfully good deal, huh?) I think it's safe to say that the mean selling price will be far closer to $1799 than $3100. In fact, I'd bet money that the median sale price will be $1799, or perhaps $1898 if adding the superdrive is a popular option.
• This February event does not come as a surprise to me. I thought SJ noted that the iPhone SDK would be released this month. I'm looking forward to this, and I wonder how this is going to fit in with the bigger picture with the Android platform. Some form of cross-compatibility?
• Just registered with AI. Long time reader [≈ 4 years], first time posting.
Clearly, the SSD is not going to sell more (but if it does that must mean it's an awfully good deal, huh?) .
I'm sure that if you bought an SSD for $3,000 that you would think it's a good deal.
• Flounder is correct. teckstud started with the simplest statement which would lead most people to interpret as a starting price of 3,000 dollars. Further, teckstud retains deniability {of stating specifically base price} by using such a simple statement allowing him to provoke an argument. Which he has dragged into all sorts of insignificant points to inflame and distort. A very simple trap indeed.
.
Thank you for your analysis however flawed and simplistic it may be.
Again why do you infer to deny that Apple introduced a new $3,100 laptop? Would you state that Apple's iPod price is $79 if some asked you how much an iPod cost- as in a shuffle?
If I 'm wrong than so are you- you're low balling it as much as I'm high balling it.
Thank you for your analysis however flawed and simplistic it may be.
Again why do you infer to deny that Apple introduced a new $3,100 laptop? Would you state that Apple's iPod price is $79 if some asked you how much an iPod cost- as in a shuffle?
If I 'm wrong than so are you- you're low balling it as much as I'm high balling it.
No. You missed Flounder's point.
If 20 people buy the 1798 MacBook Air and 1 person buys the 3100 SSD version, then the average price is $1860. To say the MacBook Air is a $3100 machine without qualifying that statement is a flat-out lie. It is intended to deceive and skew.
Well at least Apple notebooks are cheaper than Dells. Dell notebooks cost $4000.
Thank you for your analysis however flawed and simplistic it may be.
Again why do you infer to deny that Apple introduced a new $3,100 laptop? Would you state that Apple's iPod price is $79 if some asked you how much an iPod cost- as in a shuffle?
If I 'm wrong than so are you- you're low balling it as much as I'm high balling it.
Pray-tell how is my analysis flawed? That the base model will almost assuredly be the most popular? That when one asks about average price, it's the average of what is actually sold? It's sure as heck a lock more accurate than your bizarre definition of average where sales don't matter and you split the difference between only two of the possible configurations.
No, I'm not wrong. iPod is quite clearly is a general term that consists of a whole ecosystem of different products.
If someone asked me how much an iPod cost, I'd ask which kind. It would be just like someone asking how much a mac cost. You'd ask which kind. So, your analogy is illogical and comes up woefully short.
If someone asked me how much a macbook air costs, I'd say it starts at 1800, because that's what you do, start with the base price.
You, on the other hand, harp in thread after thread that the MBA is a $3000 machine, which, once again, is a distorted fact.
Thank you for your analysis however flawed and simplistic it may be.
Again why do you infer to deny that Apple introduced a new $3,100 laptop? Would you state that Apple's iPod price is $79 if some asked you how much an iPod cost- as in a shuffle?
If I 'm wrong than so are you- you're low balling it as much as I'm high balling it.
And no, you don't. You ask how much is an iPod Nano? How much is an iPod Classic? How much is an iPod Touch? If someone asks how much an iPod is, you ask which one. And usually you tell them the starting price, not the price for the most expensive model.
No, the objective observer would think exactly what I think.
Thank you for your analysis however flawed and simplistic it may be.
Again why do you infer to deny that Apple introduced a new $3,100 laptop? Would you state that Apple's iPod price is $79 if some asked you how much an iPod cost- as in a shuffle?
If I 'm wrong than so are you- you're low balling it as much as I'm high balling it.
#1: For the analysis however flawed or simplistic it may be? Well, the problem is that your initial statement itself was simplistic, had only one accurate statement in it [a possible price], but presented in a way that would lead people to believe that you are implying that it is the starting price. You didn't have to say it explicitly for that interpretation to be drawn, and you probable had full knowledge that it would be provocative to members on the board. You did the minimum to cover yourself. I see no one defending your statements.
#2: No one here has denied that the MacBook Air's price with additions can inflate the price above 3,000. No one would deny that I could inflate the Mac Pro's price to 15,000. No one is debating the numbers, so that is not a valid comeback to anything me or Flounder has brought up. It is how you stated them, that is what the discussion is on.
#3: On iPod pricing, you are assuming that I'd pick a particular model of iPod, despite there being many. When posed that question, I'd describe the whole array of iPods, features and pricing. The MacBook Air is a niche product, and hence does not have another comparable product {within the Apple line} so you'd state the base price. The base price along with its associated features is the most helpful information that you can provide, and if more is needed, then work your way up. If asked about the Apple laptops in general, you start with the MacBook, and if a better graphics card is needed, then you go onto the MBP. You start low end not high end. Hence why making your first statement with 3,000 price tag was unhelpful and misleading as the first thought is that it is the base price. Regardless of intentions, whether it be carelessness, or the desire for an argument.
Edit: Dang, beaten to the punch by Tonton and Flounder. gg :-)
QFT. Seriously teckstud, get over it. I don't know what you are trying to compensate for but let me give you a little hint. When the whole board disagrees with you...you are wrong!
If someone asked me how much an iPod cost, I have enough intelligence to ask them which one or perhaps even say "Depending on which model you want, they can cost anywhere from $79 to $499." By your logic, we should tell them that if we are asked that, we should say $499 and in no way clarify.
Apple didn't introduce a laptop that costs $3100. That statement alone implies (to anyone who understands who to write and read) that this is the starting price. Apple produced a $1800 laptop that can upgrade to cost $3100 and they keep this option available for quicker shipping. If someone asked me how much the MacBook air was, I say $1800 not $3100.
Seriously, I can't figure out if you are trying to be a jerk or is really this simple? It really baffles me.
QFT. Seriously teckstud, get over it. I don't know what you are trying to compensate for but let me give you a little hint. When the whole board disagrees with you...you are wrong!
Exactly.
QFT. Seriously teckstud, get over it. I don't know what you are trying to compensate for but let me give you a little hint. When the whole board disagrees with you...you are wrong!
Excuse if I come across to pedantic here but having an entire group disagree with you doesn't make you wrong. If Teckstud is unable to prove his point then he has two viable options. He can either drop the subject altogether or attempt to come at it from n entirely different perspective.
That said, I agree with your logic and examples in regard to Teckstud's argument, Rozilla.
Well , let''s see, we just got the$3,000 MacBookAir and the $500 iPod- so what's next a $4,000 iMac and $5,000 MacBookPro?
Seriously they need to stop the hemorrhaging fast- yesterday AAPL @ $119?????
MY ORIGINAL QUOTE ABOVE.
FOR THE ULTRA-SENSITIVE BOARD I OFFER MY REVISION:
Well , let''s see, Apple just introduced an $1,800 and $3,100 MacBookAir and a $500 iTouch(*) and a $500 iPhone(*). So what's next- a $2,000 and $4,000 iMac and a $3,000 and $5,000 MacBookPro- (ALL CONFIGURED FOR SUPER EASY ORDERING- ALL MAJOR LOANS ACCEPTED)?
(*)- Less expensive versions of both models do exist but have not had a price reduction even though they are over six months old.
Apple needs to introduce more affordable products not more expensive and help reverse the declining AAPL @ $119 Thursday.
Your so-called, self- anointed "board" needs some serious, sensitivity training and fast.
Ladies and gentleman , I give you the "board":
MY ORIGINAL QUOTE ABOVE.
FOR THE ULTRA-SENSITIVE BOARD I OFFER MY REVISION:
Well , let''s see, Apple just introduced an $1,800 and $3,100 MacBookAir and a $500 iTouch - so what's next a $2,000 and $4,000 iMac and $3,000 and $5,000 MacBookPro- (ALL CONFIGURED FOR SUPER EASY ORDERING- ALL MAJOR LOANS ACCEPTED)?
Apple needs to release more affordable products not more expensive and help reverse the declining AAPL @ $119 Thursday.
Your so-called, self- anointed "board" needs some serious, sensitivity training and fast.
Ladies and gentleman , I give you the "board":
? That is absurd. Prices go up as you upgrade or add technology to. You are either upset that Apple doesn't cater enough to your low end market (in which case go buy a PC), upset that Apple makes high end products, or your upset Apple's stock is dropping, but that has nothing to do with "expensive" products Apple currently offers.
? If Apple were to release low end stuff, they wouldn't have as good of margins on it as they do with their other product lines. So it wouldn't help out the stock price that much.
? Absurdity [in examples or statements] is not a counter argument.
? Board is not ultra sensitive, we just don't take crap. Crap from me, you or anyone. The board doesn't need to.