Acknowledge that it is what physically bigger? I just don't see the advantage of leaving stuff out to reduce weight..
Then, for the zillionth time, you aren't the target audience (and can't imagine the audience?). There are plenty of people who are willing to pay extra (in terms of money and marginally important features) to have a lighter computer to lug around.
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Originally Posted by wizard69
No it doesn't. At least not in the electronics industry. The whole premise of the modern electronic IC is that smaller is cheaper is more capability..
That's just patently absurd.
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Originally Posted by wizard69
In any event maybe iSupply will give us a break down on costs in the near future. From my perspective nothing in AIR should really be that expensive.
Acknowledge that it is what physically bigger? I just don't see the advantage of leaving stuff out to reduce weight..
Then, for the zillionth time, you aren't the target audience (and can't imagine the audience?). There are plenty of people who are willing to pay extra (in terms of money and marginally important features) to have a lighter computer to lug around.
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Originally Posted by wizard69
No it doesn't. At least not in the electronics industry. The whole premise of the modern electronic IC is that smaller is cheaper is more capability..
That's just patently absurd.
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Originally Posted by wizard69
In any event maybe iSupply will give us a break down on costs in the near future. From my perspective nothing in AIR should really be that expensive.
I've read so much arrant rubbish in this thread, I felt compelled for the first time in years to post.
1. MBA offers less value than other Mac portable options
Great, so buy the other Mac product that offers better value.
2. MBA would be better if Apple just added ?insert your favorite feature here?
Perhaps it would. But they didn?t. So if you NEED ?favorite feature here?, buy a machine that has it. Or wait for rev.2 of the MBA to come, cost/component availability may have changed by then so you can buy it.
3. The ?processor/hard drive/SSD? is too ?slow/small/expensive?
So wait a year. It?ll be faster/bigger/cheaper. Guaranteed.
4. If Apple only lowered the price, they?d sell more of these.
Not if they can?t produce any more than they can sell at this price right now. Very basic economics.
5. The average user really wants ?alternate feature set found only in MB or MBP?
Great, so sales of MBA won?t cut into sales of MB or MBP that would have been made to the average user.
6. The MBA is ?less portable? than other Apple products.
Well, this is true if you?re comparing it to the iPod line or the iPhone. Otherwise it?s a cretinous statement.
7. The MBA ?doesn't look all that portable or useful? compared to the MB or MBP
Fortunately, portability has more to do with ease of lugging around than looks. A three pound computer is PRETTY useful; even a pound makes a huge difference over time as I discovered when I moved from an iBook G4 to a MBP. If you regularly have to travel 12 or more hours by air (including stop overs), you don?t need to be convinced about this. If your commute is only between your bedroom and garage/office, then I?d see why you might think a $700 premium is a complete waste. Buy a MB.
8. I can buy ?alternate product? and end up with more ?desired feature(s) here.?
Then buy it, and quit bitching. The people buying the MBA aren?t over at ASUS forums saying ?I could buy the MBA and end up with xyz.?
9. The market for premium ultra-portable doesn?t exist.
The fact that YOU wouldnt buy it, doesn?t mean it doesn?t exist. I heard similar arguments about the iPod. I knew it would be a category killer but waited until the 10G was released before I bought it.
Similar arguments were also made about the iPhone; I knew it?d again be a category killer but decided to wait for rev B or a price drop and bought as soon as the price was reduced. Best phone/PDA I ever had - this coming off a Treo and having owned PDAs since the original Palm Pilot.
10. Apple/Steve Jobs is ?dumb/greedy?; the MBA will NEVER sell.
Bottom line is, who am I going to give the benefit of the doubt about what the correct trade-off is between engineering, packaging, marketing and pricing - the guys who created the completely new categories of personal computer and revolutionized the portable music player and the cellphone industry, or the know-it all guys who rant rabidly on Appleinsider forums on how NOBODY will buy it?
I wish the Air had tons of ports That way I could carry bags of other peripherals along with my ultraportable... which is JUST what you want from an ultraportable I also demand a floppy drive.
Luckily, when I order my Air I won't even need the Superdrive or the Ethernet. And it will still do everything* I've done with my current bulky beast of laptop with ports bristling on all sides. Everybody has their one pet feature (maybe it's 4GB RAM, maybe it's 1/2" less wide screen) that the Air MUST have or it's USELESS. Surely Apple should throw in everybody's one pet feature. They could call it a MacBook Pro
In fact, with cheap USB add-ons and various other means, an Air will let you do anything but download DV camcorder footage. You won't necessarily do everything in the same WAY you are used to. With other MacBooks you could lug a peripheral, its power supply and a cable. With the Air you may have to carry the peripheral, its power supply, a cable, AND a small/cheap adapter or hub stuck on the cable Or you may have to suffer the freedom and convenience (for all but one-time big transfers) of wireless
And Apple is certainly evil for charging mere hundreds less than the slow, thick competition rather than a nice even thousand. Because we all know that ONLY the components make up the cost of a machine. There is no cost to assemble the parts or support the product, and the two years of R&D came free as well. Also, an Asus Eee with the same computing horsepower as my electric toothbrush--and a screen 7" larger--costs almost the same to make as a MacBook Air, while including a software bundle just as powerful and elegant as OS X and iLife Clearly the Air is overpriced. And those suffering the worst seem to be those who aren't buying one anyway...
People really get upset over the Air and want it to fail. I don't much care, just so I get mine I've been waiting a long time for something this small and light--with OS X power and dual 64-bit processors to boot.
The Air "issue" has two extreme sides: one camp putting down those who don't choose an Air. One camp putting down those who do choose an air.
The former camp has zero people in it. The latter camp is a small but vocal group. Meanwhile I and most people take a rational middle view: the Air has unique benefits that make it a great choice for SOME people, while other models are a better choice for other people.
Wow! I have to admit I hadn't been reading any of these Apple forums (yes, I know the correct plural is "fora") until last August. I wanted to see what people thought of the incredibly beautiful new iMac (boy, that'll get me flamed for sure!) I started looking at the MacWorld forum and discovered that it was one of the most virulent Apple-bashing sites out there. I meant to stop reading, but it took their switch to Flash to finally get me to stop altogether. (Masochism is one thing, but waiting for a Flash page to load is beyond that!)
I thought perhaps I would find a little less anti-Apple bile and venom on a site called "AppleInsider." Imagine my surprise! Addressing some of the "contributers" to this thread: Stop complaining about being called trolls! Embrace your trollitude! Apparently you expect the rest of us to!
As a public service. I'd like to contribute the following stock reply for people to cut and paste whenever Apple brings out a new product:
"I bought my first Mac in 1793. That's when you had to toggle the whole operating system in from the front panel every time you started it up. In Octal! By candlelight!
Apple has to listen to my complaints because I'm a fanatical Apple supporter. Of course, I hate every product they ever brought out, I think their way of doing business is criminal, and I think Steve Jobs is the Devil, but other than that....
I want a 12" MacBook Pro with ten of every port ever invented (yes, that includes SCSI!) that's only 4" high when open, and I'm only willing to pay $400 for it. If it's more expensive than that, it's just a ripoff by that devil Jobs. But I'm willing to forgive everything if Steve will kiss my ass on stage at the next MacWorld and discontinue every product that I don't want to run right out and buy! Well, I'll forgive everything until they bring out some other product I don't approve of...."
Wow! I have to admit I hadn't been reading any of these Apple forums (yes, I know the correct plural is "fora") until last August. I wanted to see what people thought of the incredibly beautiful new iMac (boy, that'll get me flamed for sure!) I started looking at the MacWorld forum and discovered that it was one of the most virulent Apple-bashing sites out there. I meant to stop reading, but it took their switch to Flash to finally get me to stop altogether. (Masochism is one thing, but waiting for a Flash page to load is beyond that!)
I thought perhaps I would find a little less anti-Apple bile and venom on a site called "AppleInsider." Imagine my surprise! Addressing some of the "contributers" to this thread: Stop complaining about being called trolls! Embrace your trollitude! Apparently you expect the rest of us to!
As a public service. I'd like to contribute the following stock reply for people to cut and paste whenever Apple brings out a new product:
"I bought my first Mac in 1793. That's when you had to toggle the whole operating system in from the front panel every time you started it up. In Octal! By candlelight!
Apple has to listen to my complaints because I'm a fanatical Apple supporter. Of course, I hate every product they ever brought out, I think their way of doing business is criminal, and I think Steve Jobs is the Devil, but other than that....
I want a 12" MacBook Pro with ten of every port ever invented (yes, that includes SCSI!) that's only 4" high when open, and I'm only willing to pay $400 for it. If it's more expensive than that, it's just a ripoff by that devil Jobs. But I'm willing to forgive everything if Steve will kiss my ass on stage at the next MacWorld and discontinue every product that I don't want to run right out and buy! Well, I'll forgive everything until they bring out some other product I don't approve of...."
Wow! I have to admit I hadn't been reading any of these Apple forums (yes, I know the correct plural is "fora") until last August. I wanted to see what people thought of the incredibly beautiful new iMac (boy, that'll get me flamed for sure!) I started looking at the MacWorld forum and discovered that it was one of the most virulent Apple-bashing sites out there. I meant to stop reading, but it took their switch to Flash to finally get me to stop altogether. (Masochism is one thing, but waiting for a Flash page to load is beyond that!)
I thought perhaps I would find a little less anti-Apple bile and venom on a site called "AppleInsider." Imagine my surprise! Addressing some of the "contributers" to this thread: Stop complaining about being called trolls! Embrace your trollitude! Apparently you expect the rest of us to!
As a public service. I'd like to contribute the following stock reply for people to cut and paste whenever Apple brings out a new product:
"I bought my first Mac in 1793. That's when you had to toggle the whole operating system in from the front panel every time you started it up. In Octal! By candlelight!
Apple has to listen to my complaints because I'm a fanatical Apple supporter. Of course, I hate every product they ever brought out, I think their way of doing business is criminal, and I think Steve Jobs is the Devil, but other than that....
I want a 12" MacBook Pro with ten of every port ever invented (yes, that includes SCSI!) that's only 4" high when open, and I'm only willing to pay $400 for it. If it's more expensive than that, it's just a ripoff by that devil Jobs. But I'm willing to forgive everything if Steve will kiss my ass on stage at the next MacWorld and discontinue every product that I don't want to run right out and buy! Well, I'll forgive everything until they bring out some other product I don't approve of...."
Nice post.
Note: Being a word from Latin, the original plural was fora, but forums is also correct. Google list more uses for forums and dictionaries list both.
?Customers are more curious but less willing to buy the MacBook Air than they were the original MacBook,? Munster writes in a report to clients issued this morning. ?We believe that 16% of Macs by the end of calendar year 2008 will be MacBook Air.?
If this turns out to be accurate, the MBA will certainly do its job contributing to Apple's sales efforts (accounting for one-sixth of units sold of the six available Mac models). Yes its sales are lower than MacBooks and, likely, iMacs but contributing nicely to Apple's top line.
As to the target market for the MBA, I know four people who have purchased one. All have access to another computer and a network. All made a purchase they had not been anticipating prior to the MBA launch thus each was additive to Apple's market-share for this quarter.
Three are very mobile professionals (an attorney and two sales executives) who were attracted both by the weight, the thinness and the full-size keyboard and large display. A smaller footprint is of no consequence to these people because they carry their MBAs in their briefcase which easily accommodates the MBA's x-y dimensions but each is also happy to have a bit of extra space for paperwork due to its thinness. None are complaining about the lack of ports since they all rely on wireless networks (in their offices) and USB drives. By the way, all three were previously using some smallish PC notebook - all switchers in terms of their laptop needs.
The fourth person is my dad who replaced his 15" MBP. My parents are retired and travel a lot; they use their portable to stay in touch while on the road and to share photographs with friends and family. The weight reduction is the primary reason for the switch. - as my dad put it, "Two pounds less for these almost eighty year-old bones is ...well... two pounds less."
I really pressed him on the potential shortcomings but he had already thought things through pretty carefully. When I mentioned lack of Firewire, he reminded me that he shoots only still photographs and all his external drives and both cameras have USB. He has a NAS at home. He did buy the USB ethernet adaptor "just in case" but again reminded me that he always carries an Airport Express with him so the weight of the dongle is insignificant. His biggest concern is the battery even though he said he was never yet swapped the extra battery he carries. All in all, he could not be happier with his purchase and they will be road-testing it next week while in Australia.
For those who think the market for the MBA is very small niche market, I think that the MBA market is actually several small niches that when added together will likely be bigger than what many of the naysayers expect.
Note: Being a word from Latin, the original plural was fora, but forums is also correct. Google list more uses for forums and dictionaries list both.
I know, just a little joke.
Since I don't want to be labeled a troll for that last post, I would like to inject a little reason here. All the: "I don't want one, therefore nobody will buy one" arguments are unanswerable (Oh wait: Don't buy one!) I thought I would address an undercurrent here that seems to think anything smaller should be cheaper.
Every technology has a certain "sweet spot" of size that can be constructed for the minimum cost. I'm old enough to remember the curve with TVs; It used to be that about a 23" table model was the minimum price. Of course, if you wanted the same guts in a nice wooden console, that cost extra, but if you wanted something bigger, you really paid through the nose. Also, if you wanted a 19" "portable" (hey, it had a handle, right?) that cost quite a bit more. There were even a few 12-inchers for that "niche" market, but they were really expensive. A few years later (late 60s) the 19" was the cheapest, and it cost money to go up or down. As the R&D on the smaller components got paid off, the sweet spot moved downward. Finally there was that 5" Sony the fat guy had on his belly in the ad, but that cost an arm and a leg! Now I've seen a 5" B&W TV with an AM/FM radio for $19.95. (Admittedly, it was on sale.)
Color TVs went through the same evolution, just 10 or 15 years behind. It's obvious to me that in the Apple lineup, the MacBook hits the sweet spot. If you want something bigger or smaller, you're going to pay more for it. I expect the works of the MacBook Air to become mainstream eventually, and I think that's what Apple is planning on. Really, the Air doesn't even have to break even: they've got it out there. Can you imagine what some of our forum colleagues would say if Apple brought this out 2 years from now? "Where have you been, Apple? Too little, too late! Everybody's ahead of you!"
When 128 GB SSDs cost only a little more than 160GB HDDs, this (or something very much like it) will be the MacBook. That's the time to bring out something smaller, and yes: More Expensive!
- No a 12" MacBookPro would not necessarily sell better. Especially if it were to thick or too heavy.
When it comes to supporting a professional user it is all about I/O. Apple could put the same screen that is in the current AIR into a MBP and it would sell better. I have no doubt in my mind at all.
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- The tablet market is going nowhere. What tablet have you heard of that sells well.
Lets see iPod Touch is hot as is the iPhone, Nokia is doing a bang up job with its internet tablets, (LG, Sony and other companies) all have tablet devices in the works or available right now. This doesn't even take into account special purpose tablets. Frankly tablets are the hottest part of the computing market with more processor development for that market taking place than ever has. The big problem with the tablet world is that people want to look at slate like devices that don't sell well and call the tablet market a failure. Big mistake but I'm not sure how this even came up in a thread about AIR.
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- PC people that want a ultra-light yes they will.
No they won't? Professionals that travel with PC first need a MS OS which usually means XP. They need that to support Applications that will not run under Mac OS. That is not to slight Apple's OS, as many would like an alternative, but is just a reality. Now XP may run on AIR, I don't really know, but it won't take advantage of AIR specific features so becomes pointless.
That is just one issue with getting people to switch from a PC to AIR. That doesn't even include the issues that have been raised in this thread.
I plan on getting an MBA in a couple of weeks, I absolutely love the computer, the best looking laptop I've ever seen.
Ok so we buy computer based on looks and not capability. If that is your metric then there is little to argue against. Sort of like picking a pretty girl over one with brains I guess.
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I don't know why some people want it to fail, I just can't see the reasoning behind it, what point are you trying to prove,
Name one person here that wants to see AIr fail. Absolutely no one has said such a thing. What people are pointing out, is that many see a very limited market for AIR and no long term staying power in the market place. It is not that we want it to fail is that we can't understand the price point, which is highway robbery and the omission of significant I/O. Some of that I/O would not have impacted the design one bit nor the price point.
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if the MBA isn't for you move on and buy something else, people will always find ways to complain and some people will even go as far as to want the product to fail to it can discontinued, a tad bit selfish.
You are stepping a little bit over the line here buddy. No one here is selfish, they are simply expressing opinions which if you have an open mind you might realize will help Apple more than anything else. If customers don't stand up and say "hey Apple Firewire and 'audio in' are important as is 2 USB ports" then how would Apple know?
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What I've also noticed is the MBA attracts people into the Apple stores who are fascinated by it, they may not buy the MBA but they may buy an Apple product which is good for Apple.
Yeah this I will admit to.
What people seem to be confused with is that I find the AIR to be very interesting and certainly don't want ti to fail. Frankly I could have seen this machine becoming Apples best selling laptop and possibly the best in the industry if it had just a bit more thought put into the design and market positioning.
The other way to look at this is as a owner of Apple stock. Right now anybody that is such an owner should be very concerned about Apples price. Not that a correction wasn't due but certainly not to the extent that we have seen. Part of Apples recovery process should involve new products that add significantly to revenues. I could be completely wrong but I don't see AIR as that product.
Then, for the zillionth time, you aren't the target audience (and can't imagine the audience?). There are plenty of people who are willing to pay extra (in terms of money and marginally important features) to have a lighter computer to lug around.
Well thanks for the info like I haven't already pointed that out myself.
The problem isn't that I don't like AIR as a concept but rather as a final product and I reserve the right to point out why it might not be selling as well as some are implying. It is good for Apple and frankly it is good for people trying to make a decision and are reading this forum.
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That's just patently absurd.
Then you know nothing about the electronics industry. Do you think Intel could make profitable chips, with 2 BILLION transistors, with chip process sizes from the 80's or 90's? The electronics industry is all about making things smaller to increase capacity and lower prices. If you don't like Intel as an example look at what IBM has been doing with Cell and the process shrinks there.
All things considered, you have to wonder how much better Apple would do with another CEO and lower prices. After 10 and 1/2 years, it's time for a change of CEO, this time with enough brains to get a university degree...
And Windows will indeed take advantage of Air specific features. Above all, the weight and volume, the full-size screen and keys, and the performance. Windows will also use the Air's infrared remote/receiver (which can control iTunes, Windows Media Player, and even be used to choose between OS X and Windows), the backlit keys, the ambient light sensor, the iSight camera and mic, the optional USB faxmodem, the required Superdrive (since no version of Windows can boot/install a notebook wirelessly like a Mac can), the scroll and context-menu gestures on the trackpad (but not zoom/rotate), USB Ethernet, and of course the optional SSD.
That said, many a business a traveler needs WIndows applications in their work, but doesn't need them on the road, thanks to the Internet, Office for Mac, etc. So some Windows users can buy an Air, NOT install Windows, and still keep using Windows on their PC the same as always. The best of both worlds with no extra Microsoft license to buy
Buying an Air is "pointless" for travelers who use Windows at work? I hope the people doing just that figure it out in time to return their blunder
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Right now anybody that is such an owner should be very concerned about Apples price. Not that a correction wasn't due but certainly not to the extent that we have seen. Part of Apples recovery process should involve new products that add significantly to revenues. I could be completely wrong but I don't see AIR as that product.
The entire tech industry is down--with Apple LESS down than many others.
It doesn't matter if the Air adds significantly to revenues: the cost to make it has happened over several years, which may as well see SOME return now that it's done. The good news is that the Air is not Apple's ONLY product. The Air may not add much to revenues. Neither will the TV cable for iPod Touch. nor the VESA bracket for Cinema Displays. Others will.
But I for one DO expect the Air to pay for its own development and more. In four ways, none of them minor:
1. It will sell to people (like me) for whom Apple previously made NO acceptable laptop--and to others who are less insistent on portability but happen to like it all the same. The ultraportable market is growing as ultraportables get cheaper and more powerful--two trends the Air exemplifies. The notebook market is growing relative to desktops. And the Mac market is growing too. All three trends point to Air sales increasing. Best of all, it seems not to cannibalize other products.
2. It will draw traffic to Apple stores and the Apple web site, thus selling products OTHER than itself.
3. It will draw positive press attention, furthering Apple's mindshare and reputation for quality and innovation, and great industrial design (which is not just looks, by the way).
4. It will push the industry as a whole--but Apple in particular--towards more compact engineering. What Apple learned with the Air will make future Apple products better and more portable. The Air is not the end of this story, it is the beginning. The R&D expense of the Air will be recovered in selling that technology in more products than just the Air.
All four of these are already happening. #4 will be demonstrated when we see another MacBook model using multitouch. Next Tuesday?
It's good though that you are pointing out that the Air "might" not be selling as well as "some" people think... when nobody knows the numbers, we only know it meets a certain need better than anything else on the market.
You're defining "basic hardware" to be a radio and heater. I consider it the ability to seat four people. Your analogy that any car/truck meets mainstream needs while the air doesn't, doesn't hold up.
Sure it does because you are using an artificial requirement. In America the average commuter to work is the sole occupant of the vehicle he is in.
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Well I guess since I'm included in "everyone" I've already proven that wrong. People said the same about floppy disks, and yet here we are.
Sure they did but that doesn't make Apple right every time.
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Your opinion, the fact that so many have put forth being impressed by the form factor seems to discount your guess of what "most people" think. And people do make notebook buying decisions based on size and weight.
It may impress people on its own or as a selling point but when sitting right next to the Mac Book in the Apple store the size feature isn't all that impressive. Sure it weighs less and that is a reason to buy but its physical size just isn't a compelling argument.
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Acknowledge that smaller and ligher is an advantage. You've already made it perfectly clear that you don't find value in that advantage, or consider it worth the tradeoffs, at least you could admit the advantage exists.
Sure if it had this advantage but honestly it only has half of what you are claiming.
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That's true in the case of a chip, but people aren't buying an individual chip. They're buying a computer, which includes many parts including keyboard, display, IO, storage, cooling, power, etc. Until someone can figure out how to put the monitor and keyboard (and everything else) on a chip, putting together a laptop has design constraints that mean smaller=more expensive.
What a fancy fan for the CPU? Take a look at the on line photos, the RAM array looks like any other RAM array. This is what bugs the hell out of me, that is the claim that there is a huge step forward in the design here. Except for the CPU and fan it looks like standard off the shelf parts to me.
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You just provided your own rebuttal. The Eee has a fraction of the memory, drive space (flash), performance, and a seven inch screen. If anything, it shows that you have to cut corners in a huge way to get drastic size and weight reductions.
Err no it shows that you can cram a lot of technology, using laptop type parts into a very small box. In many ways more than what we see in the AIR. It comes back to the idea that has been expressed that the AIR is a great advancement in electronics technology. I just don't buy it. Maybe a better review will change my mind but I will stick to my claim until then that the AIR is a very cheap machine to produce.
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If it's really so easy to make a comparable machine for hundreds less (and add ports and other stuff in the process), why isn't some other company doing it? Why not?
I don't really know, but address the issue of the ASUS Eee PC why is it that such machine where so high priced until ASUS came out with their machine? It isn't because of vastly different technology.
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If they don't have to be, then why are they expensive? If it was possible to sell an ultraportable for way cheaper, why doesn't some company do it and sell a boatload?
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Well here we play a classification game because I don't consider the AIR to be an ultra portable. It is a light weight laptop, I think most would agree on that.
I will roll around back to the ASUS Eee PC and that class of machine. ASUS is certainly selling boatloads there and it would be considered an ultra portable or maybe a sub portable. Again an issue of classification. The point is ASUS clean up against the competition and did so on a very low cost machine.
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The cube was released in 2000. The apple hifi was another apple flop, and the aTV is a question mark with the new software update. When you look at what the company has done right since 2000, is "making the same mistakes over and over again" really the best way to describe the situation?
Well if you see a common theme then yes. That is a situation where design all of a sudden outweighs functionality. That is not saying that design isn't important as it has kept Apple alive through some really tough times. It just that I see a machine that was designed to be very portable and at the same time missing things that I would think the man on the go might want.
One example would be dirt simple VoIP that doesn't involve Bluetooth. Something that could have been added to the very hardware we have now with no changes at all to the physical machine by simply using iPhone headsets. All one would need is a different jack hooked up to the analog in that is likely already on the motherboard someplace.
You see sometimes I think people are getting the wrong impression, it is not like I don't like the AIR's design. There are certainly good points to be had there. What just blows my mind are the trade offs that where made, some of which have no logical explanation. That and the price for what you get.
........ the scroll and context-menu gestures on the trackpad (but not zoom/rotate), USB Ethernet, and of course the optional SSD.
OK this perplexes me a bit as I'm not sure how gestures could be translated into useful actions on Windows. Well scroll I can understand and there are standards for I/O here. We are loosing the zoom / rotate and likely any other thing that Apple comes up with. At least i would be very surprised to see Apple and MS evolve in the same way there.
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That said, many a business a traveler needs WIndows applications in their work, but doesn't need them on the road, thanks to the Internet, Office for Mac, etc. So some Windows users can buy an Air, NOT install Windows, and still keep using Windows on their PC the same as always. The best of both worlds with no extra Microsoft license to buy
Many a corporate traveler I know is stuck with whatever the IT department supplies them with. I think it is a bit of a stretch to imagine what you describe above as being wide spread practices.
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Buying an Air is "pointless" for travelers who use Windows at work? I hope the people doing just that figure it out in time to return their blunder
Even with the XP compatibility you describe above I still see it as pointless.
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The entire tech industry is down--with Apple LESS down than many others.
Interesting because there where day where the major complaint was that the index would have been up if it wasn't for Apple.
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It doesn't matter if the Air adds significantly to revenues: the cost to make it has happened over several years, which may as well see SOME return now that it's done. The good news is that the Air is not Apple's ONLY product. The Air may not add much to revenues. Neither will the TV cable for iPod Touch. nor the VESA bracket for Cinema Displays. Others will.
For all we know Apple could have funded the entire project out of cash flow. I know I've seen huge projects done locally that way. But I think that we are being foolish if we are trying to convince ourselves that AIR doesn't have to contribute to the bottom line significantly.
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But I for one DO expect the Air to pay for its own development and more. In four ways, none of them minor:
1. It will sell to people (like me) for whom Apple previously made NO acceptable laptop--and to others who are less insistent on portability but happen to like it all the same. The ultraportable market is growing as ultraportables get cheaper and more powerful--two trends the Air exemplifies. The notebook market is growing relative to desktops. And the Mac market is growing too. All three trends point to Air sales increasing. Best of all, it seems not to cannibalize other products.
As I mentioned in another response this whole issue of classifying the AIR as an ultra portable doesn't really fly with me. The notebook market is certainly growing and my whole concern with AIR is that it could have been a much bigger part of that growth. Frankly without making a profoundly different machine.
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2. It will draw traffic to Apple stores and the Apple web site, thus selling products OTHER than itself.
Sure so does the pink display which probably cost a lot less than the AIR.
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3. It will draw positive press attention, furthering Apple's mindshare and reputation for quality and innovation, and great industrial design (which is not just looks, by the way).
The AIR is very high quality for what you get, you only need to hold one in your hands to realize that. Industrial design is another issue though, as you say it is not just looks and frankly as has been highlighted here a major concern for many.
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4. It will push the industry as a whole--but Apple in particular--towards more compact engineering. What Apple learned with the Air will make future Apple products better and more portable.
What Apple has learned? Sorry I don't see the huge learning process here. Apple has learned more about small from the iPhone and iPod lines than the AIR. I just don't see the great accomplishments from the electronics end.
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The Air is not the end of this story, it is the beginning. The R&D expense of the Air will be recovered in selling that technology in more products than just the Air.
All four of these are already happening. #4 will be demonstrated when we see another MacBook model using multitouch. Next Tuesday?
Now I feel like you are trying to rewrite history here. MultiTouch came out well before AIR did, this is not an innovation in any shape or form.
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It's good though that you are pointing out that the Air "might" not be selling as well as "some" people think... when nobody knows the numbers, we only know it meets a certain need better than anything else on the market.
Well considering this whole thread is the result of an Analysts note, it is pretty obvious that what might be happening does shake people up. Given the track record of analysts and there other interests they should be taken with a grain of salt.
What I wonder about and frankly this whole thread revolves around is you statement that the AIR is ".... better than anything else on the market". Granted there are special needs that I can not argue with. What is debatable in my mind is the size of that market.
.... the folks predicting the failure of the MacBook Air may want to mosey on over to http://store.apple.com and look at what the best selling Mac is..... I'll give you a hint.
Its the MacBook Air.
Now scroll down to the bottom of the online store, and choose another country.
What's your problem wizard? Upset that others may see the world differently?
I have given up on this thread because you and truckturd refusing to see that others see the world differently and have other needs and priorities. You have wasted much to much time arguing about the short comings of the Air. Much more than the product is worth.
And for your information esthetics does matter. I have found over and over again that when someone takes the time and effort to make something look good they have usually taken the time to make it right. A good rule of thumb is "If it looks like crap, it probably is crap.
Now you have been arguing constantly that the right computer for everybody is a MacBook. For me it isn't. My main problem with it is its screen size. I would much rather have a 15" screen. But as my G4 PowerBook has now passed its fourth birthday I have been looking at both the MacBook and the MacBook Pro for a replacement. And while I have been rejecting the Pro for its cost, and my current needs are modest, I can't accept the MacBook because of its unprofessional/kiddy like appearance. Thus I am waiting for the new Pro's to come out. At which time I will look at them, inspect the Air and see if that 2" delta is a big deal or not. None of your other so called limitations of the Air matter to me. I can live with these "limitation" because they mean nothing. I don't use them now, so why should I feel limited.
.... the folks predicting the failure of the MacBook Air may want to mosey on over to http://store.apple.com and look at what the best selling Mac is..... I'll give you a hint.
Are you saying the premise of this article is wrong? Are you saying the financial analysts don't know which unit is selling more?
This list you link to only includes sales at the online store. Apple Retail Store sales are over 20% (and growing) of their revenue ... so that is not reflected. Also other retail outlets like Best Buy/J and R/ etc, etc. account for very significant sales.
I would expect sales for the Air to be higher at the online store because it costs more money to buy it online at apple then to buy it from most other large retail establishments. This follows the niche market theory that most agree with on this postings
Comments
Acknowledge that it is what physically bigger? I just don't see the advantage of leaving stuff out to reduce weight..
Then, for the zillionth time, you aren't the target audience (and can't imagine the audience?). There are plenty of people who are willing to pay extra (in terms of money and marginally important features) to have a lighter computer to lug around.
No it doesn't. At least not in the electronics industry. The whole premise of the modern electronic IC is that smaller is cheaper is more capability..
That's just patently absurd.
In any event maybe iSupply will give us a break down on costs in the near future. From my perspective nothing in AIR should really be that expensive.
We shall see.
Acknowledge that it is what physically bigger? I just don't see the advantage of leaving stuff out to reduce weight..
Then, for the zillionth time, you aren't the target audience (and can't imagine the audience?). There are plenty of people who are willing to pay extra (in terms of money and marginally important features) to have a lighter computer to lug around.
No it doesn't. At least not in the electronics industry. The whole premise of the modern electronic IC is that smaller is cheaper is more capability..
That's just patently absurd.
In any event maybe iSupply will give us a break down on costs in the near future. From my perspective nothing in AIR should really be that expensive.
We shall see. I expect you will be surprised.
I've read so much arrant rubbish in this thread, I felt compelled for the first time in years to post.
1. MBA offers less value than other Mac portable options
Great, so buy the other Mac product that offers better value.
2. MBA would be better if Apple just added ?insert your favorite feature here?
Perhaps it would. But they didn?t. So if you NEED ?favorite feature here?, buy a machine that has it. Or wait for rev.2 of the MBA to come, cost/component availability may have changed by then so you can buy it.
3. The ?processor/hard drive/SSD? is too ?slow/small/expensive?
So wait a year. It?ll be faster/bigger/cheaper. Guaranteed.
4. If Apple only lowered the price, they?d sell more of these.
Not if they can?t produce any more than they can sell at this price right now. Very basic economics.
5. The average user really wants ?alternate feature set found only in MB or MBP?
Great, so sales of MBA won?t cut into sales of MB or MBP that would have been made to the average user.
6. The MBA is ?less portable? than other Apple products.
Well, this is true if you?re comparing it to the iPod line or the iPhone. Otherwise it?s a cretinous statement.
7. The MBA ?doesn't look all that portable or useful? compared to the MB or MBP
Fortunately, portability has more to do with ease of lugging around than looks. A three pound computer is PRETTY useful; even a pound makes a huge difference over time as I discovered when I moved from an iBook G4 to a MBP. If you regularly have to travel 12 or more hours by air (including stop overs), you don?t need to be convinced about this. If your commute is only between your bedroom and garage/office, then I?d see why you might think a $700 premium is a complete waste. Buy a MB.
8. I can buy ?alternate product? and end up with more ?desired feature(s) here.?
Then buy it, and quit bitching. The people buying the MBA aren?t over at ASUS forums saying ?I could buy the MBA and end up with xyz.?
9. The market for premium ultra-portable doesn?t exist.
The fact that YOU wouldnt buy it, doesn?t mean it doesn?t exist. I heard similar arguments about the iPod. I knew it would be a category killer but waited until the 10G was released before I bought it.
Similar arguments were also made about the iPhone; I knew it?d again be a category killer but decided to wait for rev B or a price drop and bought as soon as the price was reduced. Best phone/PDA I ever had - this coming off a Treo and having owned PDAs since the original Palm Pilot.
10. Apple/Steve Jobs is ?dumb/greedy?; the MBA will NEVER sell.
Bottom line is, who am I going to give the benefit of the doubt about what the correct trade-off is between engineering, packaging, marketing and pricing - the guys who created the completely new categories of personal computer and revolutionized the portable music player and the cellphone industry, or the know-it all guys who rant rabidly on Appleinsider forums on how NOBODY will buy it?
Couldn't have put it better, well said.
Couldn't have put it better, well said.
Agreed, that's a great summary of the issues.
Luckily, when I order my Air I won't even need the Superdrive or the Ethernet. And it will still do everything* I've done with my current bulky beast of laptop with ports bristling on all sides. Everybody has their one pet feature (maybe it's 4GB RAM, maybe it's 1/2" less wide screen) that the Air MUST have or it's USELESS. Surely Apple should throw in everybody's one pet feature. They could call it a MacBook Pro
In fact, with cheap USB add-ons and various other means, an Air will let you do anything but download DV camcorder footage. You won't necessarily do everything in the same WAY you are used to. With other MacBooks you could lug a peripheral, its power supply and a cable. With the Air you may have to carry the peripheral, its power supply, a cable, AND a small/cheap adapter or hub stuck on the cable
And Apple is certainly evil for charging mere hundreds less than the slow, thick competition rather than a nice even thousand. Because we all know that ONLY the components make up the cost of a machine. There is no cost to assemble the parts or support the product, and the two years of R&D came free as well. Also, an Asus Eee with the same computing horsepower as my electric toothbrush--and a screen 7" larger--costs almost the same to make as a MacBook Air, while including a software bundle just as powerful and elegant as OS X and iLife
People really get upset over the Air and want it to fail. I don't much care, just so I get mine
See point #2 here. Classic.
The Air "issue" has two extreme sides: one camp putting down those who don't choose an Air. One camp putting down those who do choose an air.
The former camp has zero people in it. The latter camp is a small but vocal group. Meanwhile I and most people take a rational middle view: the Air has unique benefits that make it a great choice for SOME people, while other models are a better choice for other people.
* Except... no, wait... everything.
I thought perhaps I would find a little less anti-Apple bile and venom on a site called "AppleInsider." Imagine my surprise! Addressing some of the "contributers" to this thread: Stop complaining about being called trolls! Embrace your trollitude! Apparently you expect the rest of us to!
As a public service. I'd like to contribute the following stock reply for people to cut and paste whenever Apple brings out a new product:
"I bought my first Mac in 1793. That's when you had to toggle the whole operating system in from the front panel every time you started it up. In Octal! By candlelight!
Apple has to listen to my complaints because I'm a fanatical Apple supporter. Of course, I hate every product they ever brought out, I think their way of doing business is criminal, and I think Steve Jobs is the Devil, but other than that....
I want a 12" MacBook Pro with ten of every port ever invented (yes, that includes SCSI!) that's only 4" high when open, and I'm only willing to pay $400 for it. If it's more expensive than that, it's just a ripoff by that devil Jobs. But I'm willing to forgive everything if Steve will kiss my ass on stage at the next MacWorld and discontinue every product that I don't want to run right out and buy! Well, I'll forgive everything until they bring out some other product I don't approve of...."
Wow! I have to admit I hadn't been reading any of these Apple forums (yes, I know the correct plural is "fora") until last August. I wanted to see what people thought of the incredibly beautiful new iMac (boy, that'll get me flamed for sure!) I started looking at the MacWorld forum and discovered that it was one of the most virulent Apple-bashing sites out there. I meant to stop reading, but it took their switch to Flash to finally get me to stop altogether. (Masochism is one thing, but waiting for a Flash page to load is beyond that!)
I thought perhaps I would find a little less anti-Apple bile and venom on a site called "AppleInsider." Imagine my surprise! Addressing some of the "contributers" to this thread: Stop complaining about being called trolls! Embrace your trollitude! Apparently you expect the rest of us to!
As a public service. I'd like to contribute the following stock reply for people to cut and paste whenever Apple brings out a new product:
"I bought my first Mac in 1793. That's when you had to toggle the whole operating system in from the front panel every time you started it up. In Octal! By candlelight!
Apple has to listen to my complaints because I'm a fanatical Apple supporter. Of course, I hate every product they ever brought out, I think their way of doing business is criminal, and I think Steve Jobs is the Devil, but other than that....
I want a 12" MacBook Pro with ten of every port ever invented (yes, that includes SCSI!) that's only 4" high when open, and I'm only willing to pay $400 for it. If it's more expensive than that, it's just a ripoff by that devil Jobs. But I'm willing to forgive everything if Steve will kiss my ass on stage at the next MacWorld and discontinue every product that I don't want to run right out and buy! Well, I'll forgive everything until they bring out some other product I don't approve of...."
Wow! I have to admit I hadn't been reading any of these Apple forums (yes, I know the correct plural is "fora") until last August. I wanted to see what people thought of the incredibly beautiful new iMac (boy, that'll get me flamed for sure!) I started looking at the MacWorld forum and discovered that it was one of the most virulent Apple-bashing sites out there. I meant to stop reading, but it took their switch to Flash to finally get me to stop altogether. (Masochism is one thing, but waiting for a Flash page to load is beyond that!)
I thought perhaps I would find a little less anti-Apple bile and venom on a site called "AppleInsider." Imagine my surprise! Addressing some of the "contributers" to this thread: Stop complaining about being called trolls! Embrace your trollitude! Apparently you expect the rest of us to!
As a public service. I'd like to contribute the following stock reply for people to cut and paste whenever Apple brings out a new product:
"I bought my first Mac in 1793. That's when you had to toggle the whole operating system in from the front panel every time you started it up. In Octal! By candlelight!
Apple has to listen to my complaints because I'm a fanatical Apple supporter. Of course, I hate every product they ever brought out, I think their way of doing business is criminal, and I think Steve Jobs is the Devil, but other than that....
I want a 12" MacBook Pro with ten of every port ever invented (yes, that includes SCSI!) that's only 4" high when open, and I'm only willing to pay $400 for it. If it's more expensive than that, it's just a ripoff by that devil Jobs. But I'm willing to forgive everything if Steve will kiss my ass on stage at the next MacWorld and discontinue every product that I don't want to run right out and buy! Well, I'll forgive everything until they bring out some other product I don't approve of...."
Note: Being a word from Latin, the original plural was fora, but forums is also correct. Google list more uses for forums and dictionaries list both.
?Customers are more curious but less willing to buy the MacBook Air than they were the original MacBook,? Munster writes in a report to clients issued this morning. ?We believe that 16% of Macs by the end of calendar year 2008 will be MacBook Air.?
If this turns out to be accurate, the MBA will certainly do its job contributing to Apple's sales efforts (accounting for one-sixth of units sold of the six available Mac models). Yes its sales are lower than MacBooks and, likely, iMacs but contributing nicely to Apple's top line.
As to the target market for the MBA, I know four people who have purchased one. All have access to another computer and a network. All made a purchase they had not been anticipating prior to the MBA launch thus each was additive to Apple's market-share for this quarter.
Three are very mobile professionals (an attorney and two sales executives) who were attracted both by the weight, the thinness and the full-size keyboard and large display. A smaller footprint is of no consequence to these people because they carry their MBAs in their briefcase which easily accommodates the MBA's x-y dimensions but each is also happy to have a bit of extra space for paperwork due to its thinness. None are complaining about the lack of ports since they all rely on wireless networks (in their offices) and USB drives. By the way, all three were previously using some smallish PC notebook - all switchers in terms of their laptop needs.
The fourth person is my dad who replaced his 15" MBP. My parents are retired and travel a lot; they use their portable to stay in touch while on the road and to share photographs with friends and family. The weight reduction is the primary reason for the switch. - as my dad put it, "Two pounds less for these almost eighty year-old bones is ...well... two pounds less."
I really pressed him on the potential shortcomings but he had already thought things through pretty carefully. When I mentioned lack of Firewire, he reminded me that he shoots only still photographs and all his external drives and both cameras have USB. He has a NAS at home. He did buy the USB ethernet adaptor "just in case" but again reminded me that he always carries an Airport Express with him so the weight of the dongle is insignificant. His biggest concern is the battery even though he said he was never yet swapped the extra battery he carries. All in all, he could not be happier with his purchase and they will be road-testing it next week while in Australia.
For those who think the market for the MBA is very small niche market, I think that the MBA market is actually several small niches that when added together will likely be bigger than what many of the naysayers expect.
Note: Being a word from Latin, the original plural was fora, but forums is also correct. Google list more uses for forums and dictionaries list both.
I know, just a little joke.
Since I don't want to be labeled a troll for that last post, I would like to inject a little reason here. All the: "I don't want one, therefore nobody will buy one" arguments are unanswerable (Oh wait: Don't buy one!) I thought I would address an undercurrent here that seems to think anything smaller should be cheaper.
Every technology has a certain "sweet spot" of size that can be constructed for the minimum cost. I'm old enough to remember the curve with TVs; It used to be that about a 23" table model was the minimum price. Of course, if you wanted the same guts in a nice wooden console, that cost extra, but if you wanted something bigger, you really paid through the nose. Also, if you wanted a 19" "portable" (hey, it had a handle, right?) that cost quite a bit more. There were even a few 12-inchers for that "niche" market, but they were really expensive. A few years later (late 60s) the 19" was the cheapest, and it cost money to go up or down. As the R&D on the smaller components got paid off, the sweet spot moved downward. Finally there was that 5" Sony the fat guy had on his belly in the ad, but that cost an arm and a leg! Now I've seen a 5" B&W TV with an AM/FM radio for $19.95. (Admittedly, it was on sale.)
Color TVs went through the same evolution, just 10 or 15 years behind. It's obvious to me that in the Apple lineup, the MacBook hits the sweet spot. If you want something bigger or smaller, you're going to pay more for it. I expect the works of the MacBook Air to become mainstream eventually, and I think that's what Apple is planning on. Really, the Air doesn't even have to break even: they've got it out there. Can you imagine what some of our forum colleagues would say if Apple brought this out 2 years from now? "Where have you been, Apple? Too little, too late! Everybody's ahead of you!"
When 128 GB SSDs cost only a little more than 160GB HDDs, this (or something very much like it) will be the MacBook. That's the time to bring out something smaller, and yes: More Expensive!
- No a 12" MacBookPro would not necessarily sell better. Especially if it were to thick or too heavy.
When it comes to supporting a professional user it is all about I/O. Apple could put the same screen that is in the current AIR into a MBP and it would sell better. I have no doubt in my mind at all.
- The tablet market is going nowhere. What tablet have you heard of that sells well.
Lets see iPod Touch is hot as is the iPhone, Nokia is doing a bang up job with its internet tablets, (LG, Sony and other companies) all have tablet devices in the works or available right now. This doesn't even take into account special purpose tablets. Frankly tablets are the hottest part of the computing market with more processor development for that market taking place than ever has. The big problem with the tablet world is that people want to look at slate like devices that don't sell well and call the tablet market a failure. Big mistake but I'm not sure how this even came up in a thread about AIR.
- PC people that want a ultra-light yes they will.
No they won't? Professionals that travel with PC first need a MS OS which usually means XP. They need that to support Applications that will not run under Mac OS. That is not to slight Apple's OS, as many would like an alternative, but is just a reality. Now XP may run on AIR, I don't really know, but it won't take advantage of AIR specific features so becomes pointless.
That is just one issue with getting people to switch from a PC to AIR. That doesn't even include the issues that have been raised in this thread.
Dave
I plan on getting an MBA in a couple of weeks, I absolutely love the computer, the best looking laptop I've ever seen.
Ok so we buy computer based on looks and not capability. If that is your metric then there is little to argue against. Sort of like picking a pretty girl over one with brains I guess.
I don't know why some people want it to fail, I just can't see the reasoning behind it, what point are you trying to prove,
Name one person here that wants to see AIr fail. Absolutely no one has said such a thing. What people are pointing out, is that many see a very limited market for AIR and no long term staying power in the market place. It is not that we want it to fail is that we can't understand the price point, which is highway robbery and the omission of significant I/O. Some of that I/O would not have impacted the design one bit nor the price point.
if the MBA isn't for you move on and buy something else, people will always find ways to complain and some people will even go as far as to want the product to fail to it can discontinued, a tad bit selfish.
You are stepping a little bit over the line here buddy. No one here is selfish, they are simply expressing opinions which if you have an open mind you might realize will help Apple more than anything else. If customers don't stand up and say "hey Apple Firewire and 'audio in' are important as is 2 USB ports" then how would Apple know?
What I've also noticed is the MBA attracts people into the Apple stores who are fascinated by it, they may not buy the MBA but they may buy an Apple product which is good for Apple.
Yeah this I will admit to.
What people seem to be confused with is that I find the AIR to be very interesting and certainly don't want ti to fail. Frankly I could have seen this machine becoming Apples best selling laptop and possibly the best in the industry if it had just a bit more thought put into the design and market positioning.
The other way to look at this is as a owner of Apple stock. Right now anybody that is such an owner should be very concerned about Apples price. Not that a correction wasn't due but certainly not to the extent that we have seen. Part of Apples recovery process should involve new products that add significantly to revenues. I could be completely wrong but I don't see AIR as that product.
Dave
Then, for the zillionth time, you aren't the target audience (and can't imagine the audience?). There are plenty of people who are willing to pay extra (in terms of money and marginally important features) to have a lighter computer to lug around.
Well thanks for the info like I haven't already pointed that out myself.
The problem isn't that I don't like AIR as a concept but rather as a final product and I reserve the right to point out why it might not be selling as well as some are implying. It is good for Apple and frankly it is good for people trying to make a decision and are reading this forum.
That's just patently absurd.
Then you know nothing about the electronics industry. Do you think Intel could make profitable chips, with 2 BILLION transistors, with chip process sizes from the 80's or 90's? The electronics industry is all about making things smaller to increase capacity and lower prices. If you don't like Intel as an example look at what IBM has been doing with Cell and the process shrinks there.
We shall see.
Hopefully.
All things considered, you have to wonder how much better Apple would do with another CEO and lower prices. After 10 and 1/2 years, it's time for a change of CEO, this time with enough brains to get a university degree...
Mate, you are a fool!
When it comes to supporting a professional user it is all about I/O.
Not with ultraportables. It's about portability. Not about connecting more devices.
Now XP may run on AIR, I don't really know, but it won't take advantage of AIR specific features so becomes pointless.
XP does run on the Air. So does Vista: Vista Ultimate runs well, which cannot be said for many a PC ultraportable.
And Windows will indeed take advantage of Air specific features. Above all, the weight and volume, the full-size screen and keys, and the performance. Windows will also use the Air's infrared remote/receiver (which can control iTunes, Windows Media Player, and even be used to choose between OS X and Windows), the backlit keys, the ambient light sensor, the iSight camera and mic, the optional USB faxmodem, the required Superdrive (since no version of Windows can boot/install a notebook wirelessly like a Mac can), the scroll and context-menu gestures on the trackpad (but not zoom/rotate), USB Ethernet, and of course the optional SSD.
That said, many a business a traveler needs WIndows applications in their work, but doesn't need them on the road, thanks to the Internet, Office for Mac, etc. So some Windows users can buy an Air, NOT install Windows, and still keep using Windows on their PC the same as always. The best of both worlds with no extra Microsoft license to buy
Buying an Air is "pointless" for travelers who use Windows at work? I hope the people doing just that figure it out in time to return their blunder
Right now anybody that is such an owner should be very concerned about Apples price. Not that a correction wasn't due but certainly not to the extent that we have seen. Part of Apples recovery process should involve new products that add significantly to revenues. I could be completely wrong but I don't see AIR as that product.
The entire tech industry is down--with Apple LESS down than many others.
It doesn't matter if the Air adds significantly to revenues: the cost to make it has happened over several years, which may as well see SOME return now that it's done. The good news is that the Air is not Apple's ONLY product. The Air may not add much to revenues. Neither will the TV cable for iPod Touch. nor the VESA bracket for Cinema Displays. Others will.
But I for one DO expect the Air to pay for its own development and more. In four ways, none of them minor:
1. It will sell to people (like me) for whom Apple previously made NO acceptable laptop--and to others who are less insistent on portability but happen to like it all the same. The ultraportable market is growing as ultraportables get cheaper and more powerful--two trends the Air exemplifies. The notebook market is growing relative to desktops. And the Mac market is growing too. All three trends point to Air sales increasing. Best of all, it seems not to cannibalize other products.
2. It will draw traffic to Apple stores and the Apple web site, thus selling products OTHER than itself.
3. It will draw positive press attention, furthering Apple's mindshare and reputation for quality and innovation, and great industrial design (which is not just looks, by the way).
4. It will push the industry as a whole--but Apple in particular--towards more compact engineering. What Apple learned with the Air will make future Apple products better and more portable. The Air is not the end of this story, it is the beginning. The R&D expense of the Air will be recovered in selling that technology in more products than just the Air.
All four of these are already happening. #4 will be demonstrated when we see another MacBook model using multitouch. Next Tuesday?
It's good though that you are pointing out that the Air "might" not be selling as well as "some" people think... when nobody knows the numbers, we only know it meets a certain need better than anything else on the market.
You're defining "basic hardware" to be a radio and heater. I consider it the ability to seat four people. Your analogy that any car/truck meets mainstream needs while the air doesn't, doesn't hold up.
Sure it does because you are using an artificial requirement. In America the average commuter to work is the sole occupant of the vehicle he is in.
Well I guess since I'm included in "everyone" I've already proven that wrong. People said the same about floppy disks, and yet here we are.
Sure they did but that doesn't make Apple right every time.
Your opinion, the fact that so many have put forth being impressed by the form factor seems to discount your guess of what "most people" think. And people do make notebook buying decisions based on size and weight.
It may impress people on its own or as a selling point but when sitting right next to the Mac Book in the Apple store the size feature isn't all that impressive. Sure it weighs less and that is a reason to buy but its physical size just isn't a compelling argument.
Acknowledge that smaller and ligher is an advantage. You've already made it perfectly clear that you don't find value in that advantage, or consider it worth the tradeoffs, at least you could admit the advantage exists.
Sure if it had this advantage but honestly it only has half of what you are claiming.
That's true in the case of a chip, but people aren't buying an individual chip. They're buying a computer, which includes many parts including keyboard, display, IO, storage, cooling, power, etc. Until someone can figure out how to put the monitor and keyboard (and everything else) on a chip, putting together a laptop has design constraints that mean smaller=more expensive.
What a fancy fan for the CPU? Take a look at the on line photos, the RAM array looks like any other RAM array. This is what bugs the hell out of me, that is the claim that there is a huge step forward in the design here. Except for the CPU and fan it looks like standard off the shelf parts to me.
You just provided your own rebuttal. The Eee has a fraction of the memory, drive space (flash), performance, and a seven inch screen. If anything, it shows that you have to cut corners in a huge way to get drastic size and weight reductions.
Err no it shows that you can cram a lot of technology, using laptop type parts into a very small box. In many ways more than what we see in the AIR. It comes back to the idea that has been expressed that the AIR is a great advancement in electronics technology. I just don't buy it. Maybe a better review will change my mind but I will stick to my claim until then that the AIR is a very cheap machine to produce.
If it's really so easy to make a comparable machine for hundreds less (and add ports and other stuff in the process), why isn't some other company doing it? Why not?
I don't really know, but address the issue of the ASUS Eee PC why is it that such machine where so high priced until ASUS came out with their machine? It isn't because of vastly different technology.
[/quote]
If they don't have to be, then why are they expensive? If it was possible to sell an ultraportable for way cheaper, why doesn't some company do it and sell a boatload?
[/quote]
Well here we play a classification game because I don't consider the AIR to be an ultra portable. It is a light weight laptop, I think most would agree on that.
I will roll around back to the ASUS Eee PC and that class of machine. ASUS is certainly selling boatloads there and it would be considered an ultra portable or maybe a sub portable. Again an issue of classification. The point is ASUS clean up against the competition and did so on a very low cost machine.
The cube was released in 2000. The apple hifi was another apple flop, and the aTV is a question mark with the new software update. When you look at what the company has done right since 2000, is "making the same mistakes over and over again" really the best way to describe the situation?
Well if you see a common theme then yes. That is a situation where design all of a sudden outweighs functionality. That is not saying that design isn't important as it has kept Apple alive through some really tough times. It just that I see a machine that was designed to be very portable and at the same time missing things that I would think the man on the go might want.
One example would be dirt simple VoIP that doesn't involve Bluetooth. Something that could have been added to the very hardware we have now with no changes at all to the physical machine by simply using iPhone headsets. All one would need is a different jack hooked up to the analog in that is likely already on the motherboard someplace.
You see sometimes I think people are getting the wrong impression, it is not like I don't like the AIR's design. There are certainly good points to be had there. What just blows my mind are the trade offs that where made, some of which have no logical explanation. That and the price for what you get.
Dave
Not with ultraportables. It's about portability. Not about connecting more devices.
Well first I'm not sure classifying the AIR as an ultra portable is right. It is no more portable than the Mac Book. AIR is simply a light laptop.
In any event that is a discussion in and of itself. With respect to I/O I will simply say that I respectfully disagree.
XP does run on the Air. So does Vista:
Good news for someone I'm sure!
Vista Ultimate runs well, which cannot be said for many a PC ultraportable.
........ the scroll and context-menu gestures on the trackpad (but not zoom/rotate), USB Ethernet, and of course the optional SSD.
OK this perplexes me a bit as I'm not sure how gestures could be translated into useful actions on Windows. Well scroll I can understand and there are standards for I/O here. We are loosing the zoom / rotate and likely any other thing that Apple comes up with. At least i would be very surprised to see Apple and MS evolve in the same way there.
That said, many a business a traveler needs WIndows applications in their work, but doesn't need them on the road, thanks to the Internet, Office for Mac, etc. So some Windows users can buy an Air, NOT install Windows, and still keep using Windows on their PC the same as always. The best of both worlds with no extra Microsoft license to buy
Many a corporate traveler I know is stuck with whatever the IT department supplies them with. I think it is a bit of a stretch to imagine what you describe above as being wide spread practices.
Buying an Air is "pointless" for travelers who use Windows at work? I hope the people doing just that figure it out in time to return their blunder
Even with the XP compatibility you describe above I still see it as pointless.
The entire tech industry is down--with Apple LESS down than many others.
Interesting because there where day where the major complaint was that the index would have been up if it wasn't for Apple.
It doesn't matter if the Air adds significantly to revenues: the cost to make it has happened over several years, which may as well see SOME return now that it's done. The good news is that the Air is not Apple's ONLY product. The Air may not add much to revenues. Neither will the TV cable for iPod Touch. nor the VESA bracket for Cinema Displays. Others will.
For all we know Apple could have funded the entire project out of cash flow. I know I've seen huge projects done locally that way. But I think that we are being foolish if we are trying to convince ourselves that AIR doesn't have to contribute to the bottom line significantly.
But I for one DO expect the Air to pay for its own development and more. In four ways, none of them minor:
1. It will sell to people (like me) for whom Apple previously made NO acceptable laptop--and to others who are less insistent on portability but happen to like it all the same. The ultraportable market is growing as ultraportables get cheaper and more powerful--two trends the Air exemplifies. The notebook market is growing relative to desktops. And the Mac market is growing too. All three trends point to Air sales increasing. Best of all, it seems not to cannibalize other products.
As I mentioned in another response this whole issue of classifying the AIR as an ultra portable doesn't really fly with me. The notebook market is certainly growing and my whole concern with AIR is that it could have been a much bigger part of that growth. Frankly without making a profoundly different machine.
2. It will draw traffic to Apple stores and the Apple web site, thus selling products OTHER than itself.
Sure so does the pink display which probably cost a lot less than the AIR.
3. It will draw positive press attention, furthering Apple's mindshare and reputation for quality and innovation, and great industrial design (which is not just looks, by the way).
The AIR is very high quality for what you get, you only need to hold one in your hands to realize that. Industrial design is another issue though, as you say it is not just looks and frankly as has been highlighted here a major concern for many.
4. It will push the industry as a whole--but Apple in particular--towards more compact engineering. What Apple learned with the Air will make future Apple products better and more portable.
What Apple has learned? Sorry I don't see the huge learning process here. Apple has learned more about small from the iPhone and iPod lines than the AIR. I just don't see the great accomplishments from the electronics end.
The Air is not the end of this story, it is the beginning. The R&D expense of the Air will be recovered in selling that technology in more products than just the Air.
All four of these are already happening. #4 will be demonstrated when we see another MacBook model using multitouch. Next Tuesday?
Now I feel like you are trying to rewrite history here. MultiTouch came out well before AIR did, this is not an innovation in any shape or form.
It's good though that you are pointing out that the Air "might" not be selling as well as "some" people think... when nobody knows the numbers, we only know it meets a certain need better than anything else on the market.
Well considering this whole thread is the result of an Analysts note, it is pretty obvious that what might be happening does shake people up. Given the track record of analysts and there other interests they should be taken with a grain of salt.
What I wonder about and frankly this whole thread revolves around is you statement that the AIR is ".... better than anything else on the market". Granted there are special needs that I can not argue with. What is debatable in my mind is the size of that market.
Dave
Its the MacBook Air.
Now scroll down to the bottom of the online store, and choose another country.
#1 in France.
#1 in Japan.
#1 in UK.
#1 in Spain
#1 in Italy
#1 in Ireland
#1 in Belgium
#1 in Luxembourg
#1 in The Netherlands (Nederland)
#1 in Austria (Osterrich)
#1 in Denmark
#1 in Germany (Deutschland)
#1 in Norway (Norge)
#1 in Switzerland (Schweiz)
#1 in Finland (Suomi)
#1 in Sweeden (Sverige)
What do the "floppers" have to say for themselves now?
I have given up on this thread because you and truckturd refusing to see that others see the world differently and have other needs and priorities. You have wasted much to much time arguing about the short comings of the Air. Much more than the product is worth.
And for your information esthetics does matter. I have found over and over again that when someone takes the time and effort to make something look good they have usually taken the time to make it right. A good rule of thumb is "If it looks like crap, it probably is crap.
Now you have been arguing constantly that the right computer for everybody is a MacBook. For me it isn't. My main problem with it is its screen size. I would much rather have a 15" screen. But as my G4 PowerBook has now passed its fourth birthday I have been looking at both the MacBook and the MacBook Pro for a replacement. And while I have been rejecting the Pro for its cost, and my current needs are modest, I can't accept the MacBook because of its unprofessional/kiddy like appearance. Thus I am waiting for the new Pro's to come out. At which time I will look at them, inspect the Air and see if that 2" delta is a big deal or not. None of your other so called limitations of the Air matter to me. I can live with these "limitation" because they mean nothing. I don't use them now, so why should I feel limited.
.... the folks predicting the failure of the MacBook Air may want to mosey on over to http://store.apple.com and look at what the best selling Mac is..... I'll give you a hint.
Are you saying the premise of this article is wrong? Are you saying the financial analysts don't know which unit is selling more?
This list you link to only includes sales at the online store. Apple Retail Store sales are over 20% (and growing) of their revenue ... so that is not reflected. Also other retail outlets like Best Buy/J and R/ etc, etc. account for very significant sales.
I would expect sales for the Air to be higher at the online store because it costs more money to buy it online at apple then to buy it from most other large retail establishments. This follows the niche market theory that most agree with on this postings