I believe thats what Apple have been saying since they released the iPhone. They are concerned about security and stability. You don't have to go through the whole source code to know if a program actually have a trojan or a virus. All programs will be built using Apple iPhone SDK and I am sure that they will have a quick way to check for viruses programed using it.
Sorry, but there is no way to scan a program for a trojan. An address book type app would of course use APIs to get data from the address book and to send emails. But what can Apple check to make sure there's no sending email to nefarious spammers? Stick in a time delay for this to happen, and Apple won't even see it as traffic on the network, most likely.
Ah well, looks like I'll be trying to figure out how to jailbreak my 1.1.4 iPod Touch this weekend.
Me too. I've never even considered jailbreaking. But if there aren't at least a few good apps released next week with promise of lots more to come I'll be there. The games and programs out there for iPhone sound like a lot of fun.
Can you prove that one virus has ever harmed a cell network? No you can't and neither can AT&T nor Apple. Stop believing what they tell you and do some research. You maybe be able to harm the phone, but you can not crash a modern IN enabled cell network.
What an unbelievably naiive thing to say.
Every digital system that has ever been made can be compromised. Did you see that story in the news about Youtube getting hijacked by Pakistani telecom engineers last week? Yeah, the venerable Internet can be broken from time to time. It would not be hard to plan a DoS attack from a few million zombie PCs that would bring the Net to a crawl. Imagine what a few million trojan-infected iPhones could do.
But maybe you can turn your powers of self-delusion to your advantage and apply for a job at Microsoft's marketing department. ;-)
I disagree. Selling exclusively through the iTunes store will virtually guarantee that the apps are actually paid for, instead of pirated. This gives the developer a secure revenue stream, which should help keep prices down for the consumer. Everybody wins.
In the Palm and Windows Mobile market, piracy is rampant, so the majority of the apps are way overpriced for what they deliver. $20-$50 for "baby" software, as Steve would put it. Compare iPod games, for instance, with the average Palm OS game. The same game that's $25 for the Palm platform is $5 for the iPod. Ever wonder why?
What if I want to give away my software? Is Apple preventing me from doing this?
Can't say that I'm surprised; it fits Apple's MO to a T - it's a good thing/bad thing IMO.
Never had a problem with 3rd party apps on WM or Symbian, only the carrier or OEM. Poorly coded apps will still get through, after awhile, Apple will probably just slap a digital sig on the file, as long as the app falls into certain criteria.
Why should a company, or, more importantly, an individual, have to spend any time at all dealing with Apple just to make an application for a phone? More importantly, if you're a developer and have a great idea for an app, will Apple not 'bless' it because they (or one of their partners) have a similar app? Will they refuse to 'bless' an app that cuts into their revenue streams (like an app to download/install music from Amazon?).
And if you develop a quick app for your own use (say an app to talk to your web server to perform quick status checks), do you have to basically PAY YOURSELF (with a stipend to apple) to install it on the phone?
Well put. It will be interesting to see how your questions are answered.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Louzer
Is this something we can look forward to in OS X.6?
I remember the day it happened, the Internet was nearly brought to its knees. Billions of dollars of lost productivity. If it happened with iPhones, Apple could be liable for huge damages. So I think their tight control is a pretty smart move.
That was the blackberry back-end that was being updated. Sure, if you screw up the back-end, it will bring down the network, just as already happened with AT&T and iPhones.
But that ain't the point.
And how is Apple planning on preventing trojans from infecting a phone? Are they going to demand all source code and scrounge it for every possible task it does? Will then indemnify the end-user if a trojan gets passed their system and ends up on your iPhone and steals your contact info? There's no 'real' security against a trojan.
Exactly. There is no recorded history that I am aware of nor my friends at Nokia, or SE, and DSS (State Department Security) that has seen a rogue application bring a network down. This is Jedi Mind Control and marketing trick that all to many Apple followers are willing to believe. Intelligent Networks simply do not crash because of an application. I use Apple products daily, but I have no illusions that Steve Jobs is my friend or that his is looking out for my best interest. His loyalty is to the share holders and the current Mrs. Jobs.
I remember the day it happened, the Internet was nearly brought to its knees. Billions of dollars of lost productivity. If it happened with iPhones, Apple could be liable for huge damages. So I think their tight control is a pretty smart move.
This is not comparable to a cell network. The Internet is not the same. Apples and oranges.
I'm more than happy to let Apple carry out the quality control of software before it is installed on my iPhone.
There are millions of normal iPhone users out there who do not want to hack or jailbreak their phones and those people (like me) will fine this great.
If you want to hack your phone then feel free, it is your hardware after all.
Ian
The point is you are installing the app, not Apple. If you don't want the app, don't install it. But don't put it in the hands of Apple to decide what app can and cannot be installed. If I write my own app for my iPhone, why should it be Apple's business? If I want to give my app away for free, why should Apple prevent this?
I'm afraid Steve's bullheadedness will kill the potential of the iPhone in the long run.
Every digital system that has ever been made can be compromised. Did you see that story in the news about Youtube getting hijacked by Pakistani telecom engineers last week? Yeah, the venerable Internet can be broken from time to time. It would not be hard to plan a DoS attack from a few million zombie PCs that would bring the Net to a crawl. Imagine what a few million trojan-infected iPhones could do.
But maybe you can turn your powers of self-delusion to your advantage and apply for a job at Microsoft's marketing department. ;-)
You are displaying a lack of understanding how a cell phone network functions. The Internet is not a cell network. Your comparison is moot and pointless.
By flooding it with traffic. Analogy...ever been stuck in traffic? The network (road) is fine...are you happy...no.
/Mikael
Basestations do use IN technologies to provide provisioning and traffic shaping. If cells become saturated, they simply dump the data calls and use the newly allocated bandwidth for voice calls as voice has a priority over data.
Basestations do use IN technologies to provide provisioning and traffic shaping. If cells become saturated, they simply dump the data calls and use the newly allocated bandwidth for voice calls as voice has a priority over data.
Granted - but what if you were dependant on the *d*a*t*a* bit of the network. Granted it will be a long time before anyone will get a SLA on that - but still. imagine a dDoS of some sort and you are the poor service technician who tries to synch his PDA ? The words shaft and ed springs to mind....
Granted that this is an issue the would concern more the WinMob fraction then anything/-one else but MS is not tied commercially to any network. I guess if an iPhone app (official) brings down the AT&T data network => they would sue for liability and too right too.
Stop letting apple off the hook on this. Why hasn't AT&Ts network crashed already. Millions of BlackBerrys, WM phones, Nokia N model phones have all types of open 3rd party support, and AT&Ts network seems to be just fine.
Granted - but what if you were dependant on the *d*a*t*a* bit of the network. Granted it will be a long time before anyone will get a SLA on that - but still. imagine a dDoS of some sort and you are the poor service technician who tries to synch his PDA ? The words shaft and ed springs to mind....
Granted that this is an issue the would concern more the WinMob fraction then anything/-one else but MS is not tied commercially to any network. I guess if an iPhone app (official) brings down the AT&T data network => they would sue for liability and too right too.
Apple Inc. will have the final say over which third-party iPhone and iPod touch applications are deemed suitable for release, according to a new report, which also confirms several other suspicions previously waged regarding the firm's upcoming software developers kit (SDK) and its associated policies.
I would hope so.
They say that it costs over a billion dollars to bring a new drug to market today. Years of research, in vivo/in vitro studies, Phase I, Phase II, Phase II and Phase IV clinical trials, etc., and yet never a guarantee that it will be effective, safe or even succeed. A particularly uncertain venture with new chemical entities with unique modes of action. And once approved, it still is required that the developer continue to support its claims of effectiveness and safety as long as they are selling it. In the US we have the FDA to help monitor the situation, but the responsibility is still in the hands of the developer.
This scenario is not far from that which has occurred with the iPhone and what one should hope to happen with any application for which it is designed to be used on. Not that it is a life threatening concern, but for the primary reason that Apple stated was their only priority right from the beginning. Above everything else, the iPhone must work as a phone. Everything else is secondary.
And by the sounds of things, it is working. Even with all the surfing and voice mail, something we couldn't do or as well before, the iPhone continues to work.
So what is the problem that Apple devises a strategy that helps ensure that anything I add to my iPhone will maintain its integrity and I continue to get a dial tone when I want to call home or a familiar ring when my mom calls me. And not a, 'Can't find the server', or Low battery message.
Image for the moment if every diabetic syringe couldn't be loaded with heroin.
What happened to the concept of an open market? Monopolistic is what comes to mind when speaking of Apple. Also, why is it that Apple can get away with this type of anti-marketing behavior and everyone else gets their day in court?
Bottom line is that Apple wants complete control over the manufacturing and sale of devices/softare designed to run with their products. Why should they have the final word on what is good software? Let the consumer and the marketplace have the final word.
Your "counter culture" attitude is exactly why Apple has to do this. Unlike a computer Apple has to make sure the iPhone platform is stable and "safe" for the phone network as well. I think the smart thing to do is start out conservative and work you way on up.
Either you work for Apple, or you are royally full of crap, or both. First, I can well afford to pay for software?and do. Second, I do not need Apple to act in my behave regarding the software I wish to upload. Third, I take full accountability for my actions should said software cause issues.
Apple is doing this solely for the money. Having had a Mac since 1984, I have seen a great deal of how Apple works, and they are becoming more like Big Brother.
Comments
I believe thats what Apple have been saying since they released the iPhone. They are concerned about security and stability. You don't have to go through the whole source code to know if a program actually have a trojan or a virus. All programs will be built using Apple iPhone SDK and I am sure that they will have a quick way to check for viruses programed using it.
Sorry, but there is no way to scan a program for a trojan. An address book type app would of course use APIs to get data from the address book and to send emails. But what can Apple check to make sure there's no sending email to nefarious spammers? Stick in a time delay for this to happen, and Apple won't even see it as traffic on the network, most likely.
Ah well, looks like I'll be trying to figure out how to jailbreak my 1.1.4 iPod Touch this weekend.
Me too. I've never even considered jailbreaking. But if there aren't at least a few good apps released next week with promise of lots more to come I'll be there. The games and programs out there for iPhone sound like a lot of fun.
Explain how an app can crash a network.
By flooding it with traffic. Analogy...ever been stuck in traffic? The network (road) is fine...are you happy...no.
/Mikael
Can you prove that one virus has ever harmed a cell network? No you can't and neither can AT&T nor Apple. Stop believing what they tell you and do some research. You maybe be able to harm the phone, but you can not crash a modern IN enabled cell network.
What an unbelievably naiive thing to say.
Every digital system that has ever been made can be compromised. Did you see that story in the news about Youtube getting hijacked by Pakistani telecom engineers last week? Yeah, the venerable Internet can be broken from time to time. It would not be hard to plan a DoS attack from a few million zombie PCs that would bring the Net to a crawl. Imagine what a few million trojan-infected iPhones could do.
But maybe you can turn your powers of self-delusion to your advantage and apply for a job at Microsoft's marketing department. ;-)
I disagree. Selling exclusively through the iTunes store will virtually guarantee that the apps are actually paid for, instead of pirated. This gives the developer a secure revenue stream, which should help keep prices down for the consumer. Everybody wins.
In the Palm and Windows Mobile market, piracy is rampant, so the majority of the apps are way overpriced for what they deliver. $20-$50 for "baby" software, as Steve would put it. Compare iPod games, for instance, with the average Palm OS game. The same game that's $25 for the Palm platform is $5 for the iPod. Ever wonder why?
What if I want to give away my software? Is Apple preventing me from doing this?
Never had a problem with 3rd party apps on WM or Symbian, only the carrier or OEM. Poorly coded apps will still get through, after awhile, Apple will probably just slap a digital sig on the file, as long as the app falls into certain criteria.
Why should a company, or, more importantly, an individual, have to spend any time at all dealing with Apple just to make an application for a phone? More importantly, if you're a developer and have a great idea for an app, will Apple not 'bless' it because they (or one of their partners) have a similar app? Will they refuse to 'bless' an app that cuts into their revenue streams (like an app to download/install music from Amazon?).
And if you develop a quick app for your own use (say an app to talk to your web server to perform quick status checks), do you have to basically PAY YOURSELF (with a stipend to apple) to install it on the phone?
Well put. It will be interesting to see how your questions are answered.
Is this something we can look forward to in OS X.6?
Don't be to surprised.
Explain how an app can crash a network.
This is probably the most famous:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Morris_worm
I remember the day it happened, the Internet was nearly brought to its knees. Billions of dollars of lost productivity. If it happened with iPhones, Apple could be liable for huge damages. So I think their tight control is a pretty smart move.
There are millions of normal iPhone users out there who do not want to hack or jailbreak their phones and those people (like me) will fine this great.
If you want to hack your phone then feel free, it is your hardware after all.
Ian
That was the blackberry back-end that was being updated. Sure, if you screw up the back-end, it will bring down the network, just as already happened with AT&T and iPhones.
But that ain't the point.
And how is Apple planning on preventing trojans from infecting a phone? Are they going to demand all source code and scrounge it for every possible task it does? Will then indemnify the end-user if a trojan gets passed their system and ends up on your iPhone and steals your contact info? There's no 'real' security against a trojan.
Exactly. There is no recorded history that I am aware of nor my friends at Nokia, or SE, and DSS (State Department Security) that has seen a rogue application bring a network down. This is Jedi Mind Control and marketing trick that all to many Apple followers are willing to believe. Intelligent Networks simply do not crash because of an application. I use Apple products daily, but I have no illusions that Steve Jobs is my friend or that his is looking out for my best interest. His loyalty is to the share holders and the current Mrs. Jobs.
This is probably the most famous:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Morris_worm
I remember the day it happened, the Internet was nearly brought to its knees. Billions of dollars of lost productivity. If it happened with iPhones, Apple could be liable for huge damages. So I think their tight control is a pretty smart move.
This is not comparable to a cell network. The Internet is not the same. Apples and oranges.
I'm more than happy to let Apple carry out the quality control of software before it is installed on my iPhone.
There are millions of normal iPhone users out there who do not want to hack or jailbreak their phones and those people (like me) will fine this great.
If you want to hack your phone then feel free, it is your hardware after all.
Ian
The point is you are installing the app, not Apple. If you don't want the app, don't install it. But don't put it in the hands of Apple to decide what app can and cannot be installed. If I write my own app for my iPhone, why should it be Apple's business? If I want to give my app away for free, why should Apple prevent this?
I'm afraid Steve's bullheadedness will kill the potential of the iPhone in the long run.
What an unbelievably naiive thing to say.
Every digital system that has ever been made can be compromised. Did you see that story in the news about Youtube getting hijacked by Pakistani telecom engineers last week? Yeah, the venerable Internet can be broken from time to time. It would not be hard to plan a DoS attack from a few million zombie PCs that would bring the Net to a crawl. Imagine what a few million trojan-infected iPhones could do.
But maybe you can turn your powers of self-delusion to your advantage and apply for a job at Microsoft's marketing department. ;-)
You are displaying a lack of understanding how a cell phone network functions. The Internet is not a cell network. Your comparison is moot and pointless.
By flooding it with traffic. Analogy...ever been stuck in traffic? The network (road) is fine...are you happy...no.
/Mikael
Basestations do use IN technologies to provide provisioning and traffic shaping. If cells become saturated, they simply dump the data calls and use the newly allocated bandwidth for voice calls as voice has a priority over data.
Basestations do use IN technologies to provide provisioning and traffic shaping. If cells become saturated, they simply dump the data calls and use the newly allocated bandwidth for voice calls as voice has a priority over data.
Granted - but what if you were dependant on the *d*a*t*a* bit of the network. Granted it will be a long time before anyone will get a SLA on that - but still. imagine a dDoS of some sort and you are the poor service technician who tries to synch his PDA ? The words shaft and ed springs to mind....
Granted that this is an issue the would concern more the WinMob fraction then anything/-one else but MS is not tied commercially to any network. I guess if an iPhone app (official) brings down the AT&T data network => they would sue for liability and too right too.
Granted - but what if you were dependant on the *d*a*t*a* bit of the network. Granted it will be a long time before anyone will get a SLA on that - but still. imagine a dDoS of some sort and you are the poor service technician who tries to synch his PDA ? The words shaft and ed springs to mind....
Granted that this is an issue the would concern more the WinMob fraction then anything/-one else but MS is not tied commercially to any network. I guess if an iPhone app (official) brings down the AT&T data network => they would sue for liability and too right too.
Apple Inc. will have the final say over which third-party iPhone and iPod touch applications are deemed suitable for release, according to a new report, which also confirms several other suspicions previously waged regarding the firm's upcoming software developers kit (SDK) and its associated policies.
I would hope so.
They say that it costs over a billion dollars to bring a new drug to market today. Years of research, in vivo/in vitro studies, Phase I, Phase II, Phase II and Phase IV clinical trials, etc., and yet never a guarantee that it will be effective, safe or even succeed. A particularly uncertain venture with new chemical entities with unique modes of action. And once approved, it still is required that the developer continue to support its claims of effectiveness and safety as long as they are selling it. In the US we have the FDA to help monitor the situation, but the responsibility is still in the hands of the developer.
This scenario is not far from that which has occurred with the iPhone and what one should hope to happen with any application for which it is designed to be used on. Not that it is a life threatening concern, but for the primary reason that Apple stated was their only priority right from the beginning. Above everything else, the iPhone must work as a phone. Everything else is secondary.
And by the sounds of things, it is working. Even with all the surfing and voice mail, something we couldn't do or as well before, the iPhone continues to work.
So what is the problem that Apple devises a strategy that helps ensure that anything I add to my iPhone will maintain its integrity and I continue to get a dial tone when I want to call home or a familiar ring when my mom calls me. And not a, 'Can't find the server', or Low battery message.
Image for the moment if every diabetic syringe couldn't be loaded with heroin.
Bottom line is that Apple wants complete control over the manufacturing and sale of devices/softare designed to run with their products. Why should they have the final word on what is good software? Let the consumer and the marketplace have the final word.
Your "counter culture" attitude is exactly why Apple has to do this. Unlike a computer Apple has to make sure the iPhone platform is stable and "safe" for the phone network as well. I think the smart thing to do is start out conservative and work you way on up.
Either you work for Apple, or you are royally full of crap, or both. First, I can well afford to pay for software?and do. Second, I do not need Apple to act in my behave regarding the software I wish to upload. Third, I take full accountability for my actions should said software cause issues.
Apple is doing this solely for the money. Having had a Mac since 1984, I have seen a great deal of how Apple works, and they are becoming more like Big Brother.
Here's another great movement: Democratic bill could force Apple, AT&T to unlock iPhone