I think you've eloquently summed it up for me: the Air represents a very beautiful, very expensive way to use the internet and Microsoft Office.
It will never end...
On an MBA, someone can use a wide variety of apps that help organize and run a business, be creative and otherwise just plain get stuff done. Last week, I used my MBA to plan my next text, down to making rough recordings on the built-in mic (I have a studio for the real deal). A presentation to my work group using the video out sealed the deal and I am almost done.
The MBA is more portable than my MBP and can fit on small coffee shop tables and therefore I tend to carry it more often and can get work done when creativity strikes. Sure beats the heck out of jotting and scribbling on paper and then re-doing everything (or even scanning) later. Normally, the initial process takes me about two weeks, but with the Air with me more of the time, I was done in less than a week and already on the next step.
People may bash the MBA, but it is a great machine that is very capable in the right hands. I wonder what other writers and professionals are doing with theirs?
On an MBA, someone can use a wide variety of apps that help organize and run a business, be creative and otherwise just plain get stuff done. Last week, I used my MBA to plan my next text, down to making rough recordings on the built-in mic (I have a studio for the real deal). A presentation to my work group using the video out sealed the deal and I am almost done.
The MBA is more portable than my MBP and can fit on small coffee shop tables and therefore I tend to carry it more often and can get work done when creativity strikes. Sure beats the heck out of jotting and scribbling on paper and then re-doing everything (or even scanning) later. Normally, the initial process takes me about two weeks, but with the Air with me more of the time, I was done in less than a week and already on the next step.
People may bash the MBA, but it is a great machine that is very capable in the right hands. I wonder what other writers and professionals are doing with theirs?
Back to work...
Don't bother... you've tried to say it, but they're not listening. These are the people who will never buy a Ferrari, or even a Mercedes. They won't buy a Mussoni, or even an Armani, they never fly first class unless somehow they got their business (paid for by someone else) bumped up, and will never understand that lightness, thinness and, yes, style, costs. And many people find that cost to be well worth it. Plus they don't see that the MBA, especially compared to other ultra-lights, is a powerhouse that can do for most business work, let alone light music, video, etc. It ain't a Mac Pro, but then, neither is the MBP (I have both MP's and MBP's).
As for the people I know who have the MPA's -- medical student does all her work on one, CEO Fortune 500 company does deal closers, memos, email, reports (reading and writing), contracts, etc -- multi-platinum recording artist does rough tracks and quick demos when they're on the road, as well as usual email and writing, producer does deals, reads scripts, looks at financial reports, etc. And the list goes on and on. Oh, and an astronomy prof friend of mine is looking at one for when they're off doing research here and there (full sky surveys in the radio frequencies, etc) -- and thinks she'll do just fine with it -- light and more than powerful enough. She'll use the big machines elsewhere for major number crunching which NO notebook can do.
Oh, and being on a budget is not at fault here, it's just people who don't understand that certain things cost more, and are worth the cost. Believe me, the difference between a Ferrari and a Honda (and both are great cars) is well worth it (and I used to always have a Toyota while I had Ferraris, not because Ferraris are always in the shop -- not the latest ones at all -- but for things like camping, skiing, etc.). Right tool for the right job.
Don't bother... you've tried to say it, but they're not listening. These are the people who will never buy a Ferrari, or even a Mercedes. They won't buy a Mussoni, or even an Armani, they never fly first class unless somehow they got their business (paid for by someone else) bumped up, and will never understand that lightness, thinness and, yes, style, costs. And many people find that cost to be well worth it. Plus they don't see that the MBA, especially compared to other ultra-lights, is a powerhouse that can do for most business work, let alone light music, video, etc. It ain't a Mac Pro, but then, neither is the MBP (I have both MP's and MBP's).
As for the people I know who have the MPA's -- medical student does all her work on one, CEO Fortune 500 company does deal closers, memos, email, reports (reading and writing), contracts, etc -- multi-platinum recording artist does rough tracks and quick demos when they're on the road, as well as usual email and writing, producer does deals, reads scripts, looks at financial reports, etc. And the list goes on and on. Oh, and an astronomy prof friend of mine is looking at one for when they're off doing research here and there (full sky surveys in the radio frequencies, etc) -- and thinks she'll do just fine with it -- light and more than powerful enough. She'll use the big machines elsewhere for major number crunching which NO notebook can do.
Oh, and being on a budget is not at fault here, it's just people who don't understand that certain things cost more, and are worth the cost. Believe me, the difference between a Ferrari and a Honda (and both are great cars) is well worth it (and I used to always have a Toyota while I had Ferraris, not because Ferraris are always in the shop -- not the latest ones at all -- but for things like camping, skiing, etc.). Right tool for the right job.
Yep. Even when the right tool's a Ferrari with a Honda under the bonnet
I wish some of those saying how great the Air is didn't feel the need to bolster their case by implying those of us who think it's a bad deal can't afford one when the simple truth is it doesn't meet our needs.
Yep. Even when the right tool's a Ferrari with a Honda under the bonnet
I wish some of those saying how great the Air is didn't feel the need to bolster their case by implying those of us who think it's a bad deal can't afford one when the simple truth is it doesn't meet our needs.
I don't think "it doesn't meet our needs" has ever been the question; there seems to be a lot of real ire against the MBA because it doesn't fit some people's needs, where an MB or MBP will. And a lot of it seems to be that it's "too expensive" for what it is. If people just said "not for me," there wouldn't be this "bolster" (which I don't agree there is) -- but so many non-users of it are saying how truly awful it is (in rather mix-ed up manners), yet those who own them all seem to like them (even Bergermeister who had a fan go on his). So the one-sided complaining is what's being responded to... and to my eye, most of the complainers simply can't understand why something that is expensive can still be good. I bring up Ferraris only because it's an extreme example. I got a lot of people lusting after mine, while backhandedly trying to insult me for how expensive they were.
Oh, and how dare you put a Honda engine under the hood... it was always Fords (I believe) under those fiberglass Daytona bodies in Miami Vice. Blasphemy!
Odd, the MBP's are hardly "bulky" (especially compared to all the other power notebooks out there), and the MBA is hardly "crippled."
Heh...the 17" is rather bulky and if I were buying today I'd get a MBA. It certainly isn't crippled in comparison to some of the alternatives and is suitable for many pro users.
Heh...the 17" is rather bulky and if I were buying today I'd get a MBA. It certainly isn't crippled in comparison to some of the alternatives and is suitable for many pro users.
I was more thinking of those giant, thick monstrosities from many a PC company. I booked all over Iceland and the British Isles for a year (working on a series and meeting various people in companies I'd worked with but never actually met in London and Ireland) with my 17" PB, and it never felt that big, but a friend had some giant HP (I think) and he was always complaining. I laughed. A lot. But I do find my 15" MBP sleeker.
What I think mzaslove and Bergermeister are trying to say is this: If you look over the MacBook, MacBook Air, and MacBook Pro, and you decide that the MBA is not for you, that's fine. No one is forcing you to buy it, and you've lost nothing for it's introduction into the Apple lineup.
The consumer's MacBook is still there. The professional's MacBook Pro is still there. Whether you find it a good buy or not, MORE options is ALWAYS better. People have complained since the beginning of time that Apple doesn't try to represent all the various markets, and when they add a totally new machine to cater to a market that has been relatively ignored since the PowerBook 1400, now they get chastised for it? To constantly talk it down is to say that it's not a good machine, and there is absolutely no reason to try to cast an actively negative light on it when it doesn't affect you at all. If you don't like what the MBA has to offer, pass it by and keep on looking. But don't try to make it look bad in an effort to dissuade others from buying it, others who may be just as happy with one as Bergermeister is with his.
I was more thinking of those giant, thick monstrosities from many a PC company. I booked all over Iceland and the British Isles for a year (working on a series and meeting various people in companies I'd worked with but never actually met in London and Ireland) with my 17" PB, and it never felt that big, but a friend had some giant HP (I think) and he was always complaining. I laughed. A lot. But I do find my 15" MBP sleeker.
I can't get my 17" to fit certain things. Normal laptop cases, hotel safes, etc. So its not BULKY bulky as in thickness it is still rather large. Now I knew this and got it for giving demos with the screen real estate but honestly the 15" would have been better.
Now I can get away with just an Air but my replacement cycle isn't up yet.
I can't get my 17" to fit certain things. Normal laptop cases, hotel safes, etc. So its not BULKY bulky as in thickness it is still rather large. Now I knew this and got it for giving demos with the screen real estate but honestly the 15" would have been better.
Now I can get away with just an Air but my replacement cycle isn't up yet.
Never thought about hotel safes. I get all my cases from Acme, so I'm not sure about that. I still like that 17"er, though. But I don't miss much with the 15" oddly enough. MBA when I have to travel a lot next year.
What I think mzaslove and Bergermeister are trying to say is this: If you look over the MacBook, MacBook Air, and MacBook Pro, and you decide that the MBA is not for you, that's fine. No one is forcing you to buy it, and you've lost nothing for it's introduction into the Apple lineup.
This is very much true and frankly it wasn't easy to go up a model to the MBP in my case. Percentage wise it isn't a lot more money, but mentally it is. The trade off of course is the additional capability.
Many people seem to fly off the handle when it is suggested that the AIR is a limited capability machine. I don't really know why as it is obvious. What I do know is that the AIR is a very frustrating machine to look at in the store, for want of a couple of ports I'd have one today.
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The consumer's MacBook is still there. The professional's MacBook Pro is still there. Whether you find it a good buy or not, MORE options is ALWAYS better.
This is very true indeed and frankly I wish Apple would get a Rev 2 out of AIR that gives us a few more options to choose from.
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People have complained since the beginning of time that Apple doesn't try to represent all the various markets, and when they add a totally new machine to cater to a market that has been relatively ignored since the PowerBook 1400, now they get chastised for it?
They get chastised for coming real close to making a very desirable machine but for want of design winning over function they produced a highly limited machine.
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To constantly talk it down is to say that it's not a good machine, and there is absolutely no reason to try to cast an actively negative light on it when it doesn't affect you at all.
I hope you are not equating pointing out real limitations on a device to casting a negative light upon it. The AIR is an interesting machine from the engineering standpoint, no body can argue against that. What people need to know though when looking at the different models is that in many ways it will be outperformed by cheaper hardware from Apple.
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If you don't like what the MBA has to offer, pass it by and keep on looking. But don't try to make it look bad in an effort to dissuade others from buying it, others who may be just as happy with one as Bergermeister is with his.
One has an obligation to his fellow man to point out the limitations of a device that he is inquiring about. Many of us wold like to avoid ever falling into the mold of a used car salesman. Being honest about how you fell about something is the best way to keep your integrity intact. In any event I don't think highlighting limitations is trying to dissuade anybody from Buying AIR, it is just giving them a perspective that they can check against their own realities.
Air is not a bad machine as much as it is a frustrating machine. Frustrating in that it doesn't have quite the I/O to be truly versatile. Frustrating in that is priced significantly higher than machines with more capability. Frustrating in that the very same shell that it is in now could have offered up more capability and significantly more with a little work on the case. Could Apple eliminate these frustrations in a Rev2, certainly they could but now I have a MBP there is less of a chance of me buying one in the near future, which is more frustrating.
Air is not a bad machine as much as it is a frustrating machine.
Dave
Dave, I feel your frustration too. I am almost in the market for a new portable and there are things I love about the Air, but I can't see myself spending that amount for what I would end up with. I suspect that I am exactly like you in that regard.
But, though you were very reasonable (unlike others) in your explanation, I find your complaints even more frustrating in what they don't see/acknowledge.
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Frustrating in that it doesn't have quite the I/O to be truly versatile.
The Air's main purpose--its reason for being brought into the world--is to be sleek and very portable. Everyone keeps saying it, but those that don't say it don't seem to hear it. It is not supposed to be a versatile machine. That is what the MB and MBP are for. Versatility would increase size and/or cost. Neither of those options is acceptable.
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Frustrating in that is priced significantly higher than machines with more capability.
With the Air, you are paying for thin and light--not for capability. It is an unavoidable fact that thin and light cost extra. Otherwise every laptop would be sleek and light and you would have a point.
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Frustrating in that the very same shell that it is in now could have offered up more capability and significantly more with a little work on the case.
Well, I am not an engineer. But I have to assume that the engineers at Apple know that people like large HDs and faster processors. And USB ports. And Mac people love their Firewire. And an Express card slot would be cool. And... ...where does it end? You know what I am going to say: MB or MBP.
Now, I am being a bit disengenuous here, because I know you don't want ALL that. But I have been led to believe that any extra features would have forced an increase in size--even a single extra USB slot would necessitate internal controlers and such that would not fit in the present case. The question then becomes what ONE thing do you want to add that is worth a little more size/weight? Is it ths same ONE thing that everybody else who is unhappy with the Air wants? No. To satisfy many more people the size and weight would have to increase not insignificantly, thus turning off the original targeted users of the Air--those who want sleek and light and are willing to pay for it despite the power limitations.
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Could Apple eliminate these frustrations in a Rev2, certainly they could but now I have a MBP there is less of a chance of me buying one in the near future, which is more frustrating.
This is where I feel you the most. Like I said at the beginning, I would love to have an Air. If only it had a little more ooomph. When I buy, it is going to have to last me a while (I'm on a TiBook now and my previous laptop was a PB 160) and I know that in a year or two it is possible that the Air 2.0 will be all I ever wanted and yet out of reach. What frustrates me is not that Apple didn't try hard enough--I am glad that they are putting their efforts into small--but that what I want doesn't exist: Small, light, powerfull and affordable.
The Air fits my needs perfectly. And maybe it won't roast my grapes like the PB does.
If you're need for an MBA is predicated on visions of surfing the internet while watching 4 tivos for fun with your wife, your grapes might already be roasted
On a less biting note, the Mac Book Air is for you if you meet two of the following requirements:
1) you have money
2) you need a laptop
3) you are lazy*
* If you both have money and are lazy, you likely did not earn said money. In any case, Steve Jobs will gladly take it.
Many people seem to fly off the handle when it is suggested that the AIR is a limited capability machine. I don't really know why as it is obvious. What I do know is that the AIR is a very frustrating machine to look at in the store, for want of a couple of ports I'd have one today.
Few are the people who find the perfect notebook for themselves. You always have to compromise. There's a golden rule with computers. They are one or two (but never all) of the following three: powerful, affordable, and mobile. The iMac is powerful and affordable, but not mobile. The MacBook is affordable and mobile, but not as powerful. The MacBook Pro is powerful and mobile, but not easily affordable.
The MacBook Air is similar to the Mac Mini and Mac Pro in that it breaks from that triangle. The Mini is not powerful nor mobile, but is doubly affordable when compared to other Macs. The Mac Pro is not easily affordable nor mobile. but is doubly powerful in return. The MacBook Air completes this pattern, in that it is not exceptionally powerful nor affordable, but is doubly mobile.
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Originally Posted by wizard69
They get chastised for coming real close to making a very desirable machine but for want of design winning over function they produced a highly limited machine.
Even crap on a stick, as long as it doesn't take away from the others in the lineup, is an addition to the options. If even one person finds the MacBook Air to be a perfect match, why not? That's one person that didn't have to settle for a MacBook or MacBook Pro, while no one lost the opportunity to buy those machines.
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Originally Posted by wizard69
I hope you are not equating pointing out real limitations on a device to casting a negative light upon it. The AIR is an interesting machine from the engineering standpoint, no body can argue against that. What people need to know though when looking at the different models is that in many ways it will be outperformed by cheaper hardware from Apple.
No I wouldn't imply that, and pointing out flaws is one thing, but some people (not dropping names) have taken this too far, and have decided to essentially attack the machine for not being what they expected/predicted/got their hopes up for, regardless of it's own unique strengths.
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Originally Posted by wizard69
One has an obligation to his fellow man to point out the limitations of a device that he is inquiring about. Many of us wold like to avoid ever falling into the mold of a used car salesman. Being honest about how you fell about something is the best way to keep your integrity intact. In any event I don't think highlighting limitations is trying to dissuade anybody from Buying AIR, it is just giving them a perspective that they can check against their own realities.
Telling someone to, for instance, "take into account this and that before you buy" is perfectly acceptable, and generally even helpful. But I see a lot of "it's underpowered" and "it doesn't have enough X or Y" or other such things. It must be kept in mind that the value of a computer is a completely subjective thing. One person's perfect computer may be another's last choice. So keep in mind that no matter what your qualms are with a machine, someone else can look past those because of it's other strengths. And this validates it as much as, if not more, than the arguments of those that don't like it detract from it.
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Originally Posted by wizard69
Air is not a bad machine as much as it is a frustrating machine. Frustrating in that it doesn't have quite the I/O to be truly versatile. Frustrating in that is priced significantly higher than machines with more capability. Frustrating in that the very same shell that it is in now could have offered up more capability and significantly more with a little work on the case. Could Apple eliminate these frustrations in a Rev2, certainly they could but now I have a MBP there is less of a chance of me buying one in the near future, which is more frustrating.
Again, subjective arguments. I'd point you to Bergermeister for a first-hand opinion on it's versatility, but I think you and I both know where he stands.
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Originally Posted by Bageljoey
This is where I feel you the most. Like I said at the beginning, I would love to have an Air. If only it had a little more ooomph. When I buy, it is going to have to last me a while (I'm on a TiBook now and my previous laptop was a PB 160) and I know that in a year or two it is possible that the Air 2.0 will be all I ever wanted and yet out of reach. What frustrates me is not that Apple didn't try hard enough--I am glad that they are putting their efforts into small--but that what I want doesn't exist: Small, light, powerfull and affordable.
That, my friend, is called the Holy Grail.
...and you waited until the TiBook to move up from a 160? I don't envy your Y2K.
Even crap on a stick, as long as it doesn't take away from the others in the lineup, is an addition to the options. If even one person finds the MacBook Air to be a perfect match, why not? That's one person that didn't have to settle for a MacBook or MacBook Pro, while no one lost the opportunity to buy those machines.
Ah, but those of us hoping to buy a 12" or 13" MBP have lost the opportunity to buy those machines, because instead of the much requested 12" or 13" MBP Apple have given us the Air, which is, functionally, a very poor substitution. Crap on a stick indeed.
Ah, but those of us hoping to buy a 12" or 13" MBP have lost the opportunity to buy those machines, because instead of the much requested 12" or 13" MBP Apple have given us the Air, which is, functionally, a very poor substitution.
But its introduction means we're very unlikely to see another 12 inch MBP in the near future. Therefore, as an addition to the line-up it's also a part-substitution for something that was there before and many hoped would be again.
But its introduction means we're very unlikely to see another 12 inch MBP in the near future. Therefore, as an addition to the line-up it's also a part-substitution for something that was there before and many hoped would be again.
i honestly believe that the missing firewire (as much as the integrated graphics) on the MBA means it is definitely not intended to be any kind of substitute for the 12" PB whatsoever. they completely different machines, with different price points, for completely different purposes and different markets.
i honestly believe that the missing firewire (as much as the integrated graphics) on the MBA means it is definitely not intended to be any kind of substitute for the 12" PB whatsoever. they completely different machines, with different price points, for completely different purposes and different markets.
Personally, I don't think we will see the 12" PB again... the MB is its successor.
As to the much requested bit in another post: where? Does anyone have access to Apple's internal data and their surveys of what customers wanted? The MBA is selling better than the MB and the MBP, so it seems that it was what people wanted.
Comments
I think you've eloquently summed it up for me: the Air represents a very beautiful, very expensive way to use the internet and Microsoft Office.
It will never end...
On an MBA, someone can use a wide variety of apps that help organize and run a business, be creative and otherwise just plain get stuff done. Last week, I used my MBA to plan my next text, down to making rough recordings on the built-in mic (I have a studio for the real deal). A presentation to my work group using the video out sealed the deal and I am almost done.
The MBA is more portable than my MBP and can fit on small coffee shop tables and therefore I tend to carry it more often and can get work done when creativity strikes. Sure beats the heck out of jotting and scribbling on paper and then re-doing everything (or even scanning) later. Normally, the initial process takes me about two weeks, but with the Air with me more of the time, I was done in less than a week and already on the next step.
People may bash the MBA, but it is a great machine that is very capable in the right hands. I wonder what other writers and professionals are doing with theirs?
Back to work...
It will never end...
On an MBA, someone can use a wide variety of apps that help organize and run a business, be creative and otherwise just plain get stuff done. Last week, I used my MBA to plan my next text, down to making rough recordings on the built-in mic (I have a studio for the real deal). A presentation to my work group using the video out sealed the deal and I am almost done.
The MBA is more portable than my MBP and can fit on small coffee shop tables and therefore I tend to carry it more often and can get work done when creativity strikes. Sure beats the heck out of jotting and scribbling on paper and then re-doing everything (or even scanning) later. Normally, the initial process takes me about two weeks, but with the Air with me more of the time, I was done in less than a week and already on the next step.
People may bash the MBA, but it is a great machine that is very capable in the right hands. I wonder what other writers and professionals are doing with theirs?
Back to work...
Don't bother... you've tried to say it, but they're not listening. These are the people who will never buy a Ferrari, or even a Mercedes. They won't buy a Mussoni, or even an Armani, they never fly first class unless somehow they got their business (paid for by someone else) bumped up, and will never understand that lightness, thinness and, yes, style, costs. And many people find that cost to be well worth it. Plus they don't see that the MBA, especially compared to other ultra-lights, is a powerhouse that can do for most business work, let alone light music, video, etc. It ain't a Mac Pro, but then, neither is the MBP (I have both MP's and MBP's).
As for the people I know who have the MPA's -- medical student does all her work on one, CEO Fortune 500 company does deal closers, memos, email, reports (reading and writing), contracts, etc -- multi-platinum recording artist does rough tracks and quick demos when they're on the road, as well as usual email and writing, producer does deals, reads scripts, looks at financial reports, etc. And the list goes on and on. Oh, and an astronomy prof friend of mine is looking at one for when they're off doing research here and there (full sky surveys in the radio frequencies, etc) -- and thinks she'll do just fine with it -- light and more than powerful enough. She'll use the big machines elsewhere for major number crunching which NO notebook can do.
Oh, and being on a budget is not at fault here, it's just people who don't understand that certain things cost more, and are worth the cost. Believe me, the difference between a Ferrari and a Honda (and both are great cars) is well worth it (and I used to always have a Toyota while I had Ferraris, not because Ferraris are always in the shop -- not the latest ones at all -- but for things like camping, skiing, etc.). Right tool for the right job.
Don't bother... you've tried to say it, but they're not listening. These are the people who will never buy a Ferrari, or even a Mercedes. They won't buy a Mussoni, or even an Armani, they never fly first class unless somehow they got their business (paid for by someone else) bumped up, and will never understand that lightness, thinness and, yes, style, costs. And many people find that cost to be well worth it. Plus they don't see that the MBA, especially compared to other ultra-lights, is a powerhouse that can do for most business work, let alone light music, video, etc. It ain't a Mac Pro, but then, neither is the MBP (I have both MP's and MBP's).
As for the people I know who have the MPA's -- medical student does all her work on one, CEO Fortune 500 company does deal closers, memos, email, reports (reading and writing), contracts, etc -- multi-platinum recording artist does rough tracks and quick demos when they're on the road, as well as usual email and writing, producer does deals, reads scripts, looks at financial reports, etc. And the list goes on and on. Oh, and an astronomy prof friend of mine is looking at one for when they're off doing research here and there (full sky surveys in the radio frequencies, etc) -- and thinks she'll do just fine with it -- light and more than powerful enough. She'll use the big machines elsewhere for major number crunching which NO notebook can do.
Oh, and being on a budget is not at fault here, it's just people who don't understand that certain things cost more, and are worth the cost. Believe me, the difference between a Ferrari and a Honda (and both are great cars) is well worth it (and I used to always have a Toyota while I had Ferraris, not because Ferraris are always in the shop -- not the latest ones at all -- but for things like camping, skiing, etc.). Right tool for the right job.
Yep. Even when the right tool's a Ferrari with a Honda under the bonnet
I wish some of those saying how great the Air is didn't feel the need to bolster their case by implying those of us who think it's a bad deal can't afford one when the simple truth is it doesn't meet our needs.
Yep. Even when the right tool's a Ferrari with a Honda under the bonnet
I wish some of those saying how great the Air is didn't feel the need to bolster their case by implying those of us who think it's a bad deal can't afford one when the simple truth is it doesn't meet our needs.
I don't think "it doesn't meet our needs" has ever been the question; there seems to be a lot of real ire against the MBA because it doesn't fit some people's needs, where an MB or MBP will. And a lot of it seems to be that it's "too expensive" for what it is. If people just said "not for me," there wouldn't be this "bolster" (which I don't agree there is) -- but so many non-users of it are saying how truly awful it is (in rather mix-ed up manners), yet those who own them all seem to like them (even Bergermeister who had a fan go on his). So the one-sided complaining is what's being responded to... and to my eye, most of the complainers simply can't understand why something that is expensive can still be good. I bring up Ferraris only because it's an extreme example. I got a lot of people lusting after mine, while backhandedly trying to insult me for how expensive they were.
Oh, and how dare you put a Honda engine under the hood... it was always Fords (I believe) under those fiberglass Daytona bodies in Miami Vice. Blasphemy!
Get over yourself, I never insulted anyone, it was merely a bit of sarcasm.
Riiiight. Just more of the same from you Ireland.
Odd, the MBP's are hardly "bulky" (especially compared to all the other power notebooks out there), and the MBA is hardly "crippled."
Heh...the 17" is rather bulky and if I were buying today I'd get a MBA. It certainly isn't crippled in comparison to some of the alternatives and is suitable for many pro users.
Heh...the 17" is rather bulky and if I were buying today I'd get a MBA. It certainly isn't crippled in comparison to some of the alternatives and is suitable for many pro users.
I was more thinking of those giant, thick monstrosities from many a PC company. I booked all over Iceland and the British Isles for a year (working on a series and meeting various people in companies I'd worked with but never actually met in London and Ireland) with my 17" PB, and it never felt that big, but a friend had some giant HP (I think) and he was always complaining. I laughed. A lot. But I do find my 15" MBP sleeker.
The consumer's MacBook is still there. The professional's MacBook Pro is still there. Whether you find it a good buy or not, MORE options is ALWAYS better. People have complained since the beginning of time that Apple doesn't try to represent all the various markets, and when they add a totally new machine to cater to a market that has been relatively ignored since the PowerBook 1400, now they get chastised for it? To constantly talk it down is to say that it's not a good machine, and there is absolutely no reason to try to cast an actively negative light on it when it doesn't affect you at all. If you don't like what the MBA has to offer, pass it by and keep on looking. But don't try to make it look bad in an effort to dissuade others from buying it, others who may be just as happy with one as Bergermeister is with his.
I was more thinking of those giant, thick monstrosities from many a PC company. I booked all over Iceland and the British Isles for a year (working on a series and meeting various people in companies I'd worked with but never actually met in London and Ireland) with my 17" PB, and it never felt that big, but a friend had some giant HP (I think) and he was always complaining. I laughed. A lot. But I do find my 15" MBP sleeker.
I can't get my 17" to fit certain things. Normal laptop cases, hotel safes, etc. So its not BULKY bulky as in thickness it is still rather large. Now I knew this and got it for giving demos with the screen real estate but honestly the 15" would have been better.
Now I can get away with just an Air but my replacement cycle isn't up yet.
I can't get my 17" to fit certain things. Normal laptop cases, hotel safes, etc. So its not BULKY bulky as in thickness it is still rather large. Now I knew this and got it for giving demos with the screen real estate but honestly the 15" would have been better.
Now I can get away with just an Air but my replacement cycle isn't up yet.
Never thought about hotel safes. I get all my cases from Acme, so I'm not sure about that. I still like that 17"er, though. But I don't miss much with the 15" oddly enough. MBA when I have to travel a lot next year.
What I think mzaslove and Bergermeister are trying to say is this: If you look over the MacBook, MacBook Air, and MacBook Pro, and you decide that the MBA is not for you, that's fine. No one is forcing you to buy it, and you've lost nothing for it's introduction into the Apple lineup.
This is very much true and frankly it wasn't easy to go up a model to the MBP in my case. Percentage wise it isn't a lot more money, but mentally it is. The trade off of course is the additional capability.
Many people seem to fly off the handle when it is suggested that the AIR is a limited capability machine. I don't really know why as it is obvious. What I do know is that the AIR is a very frustrating machine to look at in the store, for want of a couple of ports I'd have one today.
The consumer's MacBook is still there. The professional's MacBook Pro is still there. Whether you find it a good buy or not, MORE options is ALWAYS better.
This is very true indeed and frankly I wish Apple would get a Rev 2 out of AIR that gives us a few more options to choose from.
People have complained since the beginning of time that Apple doesn't try to represent all the various markets, and when they add a totally new machine to cater to a market that has been relatively ignored since the PowerBook 1400, now they get chastised for it?
They get chastised for coming real close to making a very desirable machine but for want of design winning over function they produced a highly limited machine.
To constantly talk it down is to say that it's not a good machine, and there is absolutely no reason to try to cast an actively negative light on it when it doesn't affect you at all.
I hope you are not equating pointing out real limitations on a device to casting a negative light upon it. The AIR is an interesting machine from the engineering standpoint, no body can argue against that. What people need to know though when looking at the different models is that in many ways it will be outperformed by cheaper hardware from Apple.
If you don't like what the MBA has to offer, pass it by and keep on looking. But don't try to make it look bad in an effort to dissuade others from buying it, others who may be just as happy with one as Bergermeister is with his.
One has an obligation to his fellow man to point out the limitations of a device that he is inquiring about. Many of us wold like to avoid ever falling into the mold of a used car salesman. Being honest about how you fell about something is the best way to keep your integrity intact. In any event I don't think highlighting limitations is trying to dissuade anybody from Buying AIR, it is just giving them a perspective that they can check against their own realities.
Air is not a bad machine as much as it is a frustrating machine. Frustrating in that it doesn't have quite the I/O to be truly versatile. Frustrating in that is priced significantly higher than machines with more capability. Frustrating in that the very same shell that it is in now could have offered up more capability and significantly more with a little work on the case. Could Apple eliminate these frustrations in a Rev2, certainly they could but now I have a MBP there is less of a chance of me buying one in the near future, which is more frustrating.
Dave
Air is not a bad machine as much as it is a frustrating machine.
Dave
Dave, I feel your frustration too. I am almost in the market for a new portable and there are things I love about the Air, but I can't see myself spending that amount for what I would end up with. I suspect that I am exactly like you in that regard.
But, though you were very reasonable (unlike others) in your explanation, I find your complaints even more frustrating in what they don't see/acknowledge.
Frustrating in that it doesn't have quite the I/O to be truly versatile.
The Air's main purpose--its reason for being brought into the world--is to be sleek and very portable. Everyone keeps saying it, but those that don't say it don't seem to hear it. It is not supposed to be a versatile machine. That is what the MB and MBP are for. Versatility would increase size and/or cost. Neither of those options is acceptable.
Frustrating in that is priced significantly higher than machines with more capability.
With the Air, you are paying for thin and light--not for capability. It is an unavoidable fact that thin and light cost extra. Otherwise every laptop would be sleek and light and you would have a point.
Frustrating in that the very same shell that it is in now could have offered up more capability and significantly more with a little work on the case.
Well, I am not an engineer. But I have to assume that the engineers at Apple know that people like large HDs and faster processors. And USB ports. And Mac people love their Firewire. And an Express card slot would be cool. And... ...where does it end? You know what I am going to say: MB or MBP.
Now, I am being a bit disengenuous here, because I know you don't want ALL that. But I have been led to believe that any extra features would have forced an increase in size--even a single extra USB slot would necessitate internal controlers and such that would not fit in the present case. The question then becomes what ONE thing do you want to add that is worth a little more size/weight? Is it ths same ONE thing that everybody else who is unhappy with the Air wants? No. To satisfy many more people the size and weight would have to increase not insignificantly, thus turning off the original targeted users of the Air--those who want sleek and light and are willing to pay for it despite the power limitations.
Could Apple eliminate these frustrations in a Rev2, certainly they could but now I have a MBP there is less of a chance of me buying one in the near future, which is more frustrating.
This is where I feel you the most. Like I said at the beginning, I would love to have an Air. If only it had a little more ooomph. When I buy, it is going to have to last me a while (I'm on a TiBook now and my previous laptop was a PB 160) and I know that in a year or two it is possible that the Air 2.0 will be all I ever wanted and yet out of reach. What frustrates me is not that Apple didn't try hard enough--I am glad that they are putting their efforts into small--but that what I want doesn't exist: Small, light, powerfull and affordable.
The Air fits my needs perfectly. And maybe it won't roast my grapes like the PB does.
If you're need for an MBA is predicated on visions of surfing the internet while watching 4 tivos for fun with your wife, your grapes might already be roasted
On a less biting note, the Mac Book Air is for you if you meet two of the following requirements:
1) you have money
2) you need a laptop
3) you are lazy*
* If you both have money and are lazy, you likely did not earn said money. In any case, Steve Jobs will gladly take it.
Many people seem to fly off the handle when it is suggested that the AIR is a limited capability machine. I don't really know why as it is obvious. What I do know is that the AIR is a very frustrating machine to look at in the store, for want of a couple of ports I'd have one today.
Few are the people who find the perfect notebook for themselves. You always have to compromise. There's a golden rule with computers. They are one or two (but never all) of the following three: powerful, affordable, and mobile. The iMac is powerful and affordable, but not mobile. The MacBook is affordable and mobile, but not as powerful. The MacBook Pro is powerful and mobile, but not easily affordable.
The MacBook Air is similar to the Mac Mini and Mac Pro in that it breaks from that triangle. The Mini is not powerful nor mobile, but is doubly affordable when compared to other Macs. The Mac Pro is not easily affordable nor mobile. but is doubly powerful in return. The MacBook Air completes this pattern, in that it is not exceptionally powerful nor affordable, but is doubly mobile.
They get chastised for coming real close to making a very desirable machine but for want of design winning over function they produced a highly limited machine.
Even crap on a stick, as long as it doesn't take away from the others in the lineup, is an addition to the options. If even one person finds the MacBook Air to be a perfect match, why not? That's one person that didn't have to settle for a MacBook or MacBook Pro, while no one lost the opportunity to buy those machines.
I hope you are not equating pointing out real limitations on a device to casting a negative light upon it. The AIR is an interesting machine from the engineering standpoint, no body can argue against that. What people need to know though when looking at the different models is that in many ways it will be outperformed by cheaper hardware from Apple.
No I wouldn't imply that, and pointing out flaws is one thing, but some people (not dropping names) have taken this too far, and have decided to essentially attack the machine for not being what they expected/predicted/got their hopes up for, regardless of it's own unique strengths.
One has an obligation to his fellow man to point out the limitations of a device that he is inquiring about. Many of us wold like to avoid ever falling into the mold of a used car salesman. Being honest about how you fell about something is the best way to keep your integrity intact. In any event I don't think highlighting limitations is trying to dissuade anybody from Buying AIR, it is just giving them a perspective that they can check against their own realities.
Telling someone to, for instance, "take into account this and that before you buy" is perfectly acceptable, and generally even helpful. But I see a lot of "it's underpowered" and "it doesn't have enough X or Y" or other such things. It must be kept in mind that the value of a computer is a completely subjective thing. One person's perfect computer may be another's last choice. So keep in mind that no matter what your qualms are with a machine, someone else can look past those because of it's other strengths. And this validates it as much as, if not more, than the arguments of those that don't like it detract from it.
Air is not a bad machine as much as it is a frustrating machine. Frustrating in that it doesn't have quite the I/O to be truly versatile. Frustrating in that is priced significantly higher than machines with more capability. Frustrating in that the very same shell that it is in now could have offered up more capability and significantly more with a little work on the case. Could Apple eliminate these frustrations in a Rev2, certainly they could but now I have a MBP there is less of a chance of me buying one in the near future, which is more frustrating.
Again, subjective arguments. I'd point you to Bergermeister for a first-hand opinion on it's versatility, but I think you and I both know where he stands.
This is where I feel you the most. Like I said at the beginning, I would love to have an Air. If only it had a little more ooomph. When I buy, it is going to have to last me a while (I'm on a TiBook now and my previous laptop was a PB 160) and I know that in a year or two it is possible that the Air 2.0 will be all I ever wanted and yet out of reach. What frustrates me is not that Apple didn't try hard enough--I am glad that they are putting their efforts into small--but that what I want doesn't exist: Small, light, powerfull and affordable.
That, my friend, is called the Holy Grail.
...and you waited until the TiBook to move up from a 160? I don't envy your Y2K.
Even crap on a stick, as long as it doesn't take away from the others in the lineup, is an addition to the options. If even one person finds the MacBook Air to be a perfect match, why not? That's one person that didn't have to settle for a MacBook or MacBook Pro, while no one lost the opportunity to buy those machines.
Ah, but those of us hoping to buy a 12" or 13" MBP have lost the opportunity to buy those machines, because instead of the much requested 12" or 13" MBP Apple have given us the Air, which is, functionally, a very poor substitution. Crap on a stick indeed.
Ah, but those of us hoping to buy a 12" or 13" MBP have lost the opportunity to buy those machines, because instead of the much requested 12" or 13" MBP Apple have given us the Air, which is, functionally, a very poor substitution.
it was never intended to be so.
it was never intended to be so.
But its introduction means we're very unlikely to see another 12 inch MBP in the near future. Therefore, as an addition to the line-up it's also a part-substitution for something that was there before and many hoped would be again.
But its introduction means we're very unlikely to see another 12 inch MBP in the near future. Therefore, as an addition to the line-up it's also a part-substitution for something that was there before and many hoped would be again.
i honestly believe that the missing firewire (as much as the integrated graphics) on the MBA means it is definitely not intended to be any kind of substitute for the 12" PB whatsoever. they completely different machines, with different price points, for completely different purposes and different markets.
i honestly believe that the missing firewire (as much as the integrated graphics) on the MBA means it is definitely not intended to be any kind of substitute for the 12" PB whatsoever. they completely different machines, with different price points, for completely different purposes and different markets.
I hope you're right, but I'm not so certain.
As to the much requested bit in another post: where? Does anyone have access to Apple's internal data and their surveys of what customers wanted? The MBA is selling better than the MB and the MBP, so it seems that it was what people wanted.