3G ... the chip is smaller, cheaper and far less power hungry.
Instead of the Blackjack, compare the size of the new Samsung F480:
It's slimmer and considerably smaller than the iPhone and packs 7.2Mbit 3G HSDPA and a 5 megapixel autofocus camera. (Along with a large touch screen, etc)
Apple can easily fit all of these things AND a bigger battery in something the same size or SMALLER than todays iPhone.
Instead of the Blackjack, compare the size of the new Samsung F480:
It's slimmer and considerably smaller than the iPhone and packs 7.2Mbit 3G HSDPA and a 5 megapixel autofocus camera. (Along with a large touch screen, etc)
Apple can easily fit all of these things AND a bigger battery in something the same size or SMALLER than todays iPhone.
You can do it. I grabbed that pic from AnandTech as it clearly shows the size differences between chip types. Of course things are smaller now and Apple is more apt than others to making the most with a small space.
edit:
I just checked the specs on the Samsung F480 due out this Spring. There are some nice features to it but the real killer, outside of the OS, is the QVGA display. That is half the resolution of the iPhone. And at 2.8" vs the iPhones 3.5" the pixels are a lot larger too.
The iPhone is slightly larger on all three dimensions but not by much and the more fluid rounding of the iPhone indicated that the volume of the two devices are music closer than the HxLxD indicate. I'm sure it will have it's followers. It's an attractive phone and the large stereo speakers and FM radio will be wanted by some.
Still, we can't open up a device that isn't on the market yet so we'll just have for it to be released before someone does a full breakdown of it.
I would assume "streaming HD" means high definition for a mobile device. It's all relative, high definition just means higher than you're used to doesn't it? 320x240 is perfectly acceptable on a small screen, so something like 640x480 would be absolutely fantastic, etc. etc.
Well, you MIGHT be right. What I think is more likely though, is that you're simply saying something more intelligent than the analyst said, and you're cutting him some slack and saying that's probably what he meant. But the idea of "HD" is now ingrained enough that we all know it's either 720p, 1080i, or 1080p. I think he really meant HD.
It reminds me of Scott Adams talking about managers wanting to sound intelligent by combining concepts, and ending up saying stuff like "Let's make the fax multimedia." One of the guy's engineers might come along and say something clever about what that might mean, but the cleverness was on the part of the second guy, not the first.
out of everything the iPhone can do i'm surprised it can't even capture video =[ i was really dissapointed in that. When i got it I thought my iPhone was broken lol
Macs can't even rent HD quality movies, only apple tv can. Second, WHY would you want to watch HD video that will have to get scaled down 4x to fit the screen, unless they invent the worlds smallest 1080p cell phone. Oh yeah you'd only be streaming GBs of data, hope the new phones have about 60 gigs in storage.
Streaming HD video does seem a bit weird! Certainly no point on the phone (and the 3G networks aren't going to give unlimited downloads of HD videos!).
However, my brother would love to visit my parents (or his wife's work or my home) where he could login to the network on his iPhone and rent a HD movie - to take home and sync to his AppleTV. His home network is incapable.
I've had an iPhone since September and have been mostly happy with the EDGE network. This 3G network of which you speak will have to be a helluva lot better than what I have now, or disappointment can turn into anger.
Are you sure it's going to be that great?
And, by the way, if you are one of those saying that the only thing holding you back from buying an iPhone was that it wasn't 3G, and the next version IS 3G, you damn well had better buy one or you are nothing but a liar!
I hope you are right. I hope the web on the iPhone becomes awesomely fast. But, I have also heard lots of hype and seen lots of under-delivering and I have this gnawing feeling that 3G will only be marginally better than EDGE. Don't bother throwing specs at me (USB 2.0 is better than FireWire 400? Yeah, right.), I'll reserve judgment until I can see real-world performance!
One of the two things I've been waiting for in the iPhone IS 3G. The second is third party (supported) apps.
We are getting the second first.
As for 3G, yeah, it is a lot faster. I have friends with the iPhone. My Treo 700p has 3G, and when we try getting to the same pages, my phone loads much faster. Now, it's true that the iPhone has a bit more to load per page, but, even so, the difference is pronounced.
As for battery life and size, 2mm would be noticeably thicker. I really, really like the current iPhone form factor, though I guess I might grant you an extra 1mm at a push.
I'm not too worried about battery life. I'm never away from a computer for more than a day at a time, and I've got spare iPod dock connectors coming out of my ears, so if I had to charge it every night that wouldn't be too much of a problem. The fact I can comfortably go a couple of days without charging right now means I never have to worry about it.
Noticeable only when comparing two phones side by side. Otherwise, you would never know.
Battery life is always important. More is always better.
I'm sure someone here will say that they do, but It's not that big of an issue.
I've used two batteries with all sorts of my cell phones!
But here's the catch. It has been because I am lazy. Having an extra battery around allows me to avoid charging it at night -- or generally approach charging from a sloppy perspective -- and still have juice when I need it. Now that I have an iPhone I charge it almost every night. Battery life has never been a problem for me with the iPhone. Even though I use it pretty regularly it can easily make it through a few days without getting too critical in battery life (it was ugly for a little while after one of the patches, though).
The fuss about replaceable batteries really is over-hyped.
Well, you MIGHT be right. What I think is more likely though, is that you're simply saying something more intelligent than the analyst said, and you're cutting him some slack and saying that's probably what he meant. But the idea of "HD" is now ingrained enough that we all know it's either 720p, 1080i, or 1080p. I think he really meant HD.
It reminds me of Scott Adams talking about managers wanting to sound intelligent by combining concepts, and ending up saying stuff like "Let's make the fax multimedia." One of the guy's engineers might come along and say something clever about what that might mean, but the cleverness was on the part of the second guy, not the first.
Well, you know, one of the best features of the iPhone's video, just like that of the iPod, is that it can be played over a Tv. And don't forget that an iPhone, and iPod now, can store, and play back, a 640 x 480 movie, or video, over that Tv.
It would be great if it could do that for a 720p video as well. Perhaps that's what he means. I think we're jumping over him for no good reason.
I've used two batteries with all sorts of my cell phones!
But here's the catch. It has been because I am lazy. Having an extra battery around allows me to avoid charging it at night -- or generally approach charging from a sloppy perspective -- and still have juice when I need it. Now that I have an iPhone I charge it almost every night. Battery life has never been a problem for me with the iPhone. Even though I use it pretty regularly it can easily make it through a few days without getting too critical in battery life (it was ugly for a little while after one of the patches, though).
The fuss about replaceable batteries really is over-hyped.
There's always someone.
But, that's the truth. As long as you plug in over night, which is certainly easy enough, there's no problem. How many people are using their phone for 7 hours every day?
streaming HD video? What the heck is he talking about? First, where are you going to stream from? Macs can't even rent HD quality movies, only apple tv can. Second, WHY would you want to watch HD video that will have to get scaled down 4x to fit the screen, unless they invent the worlds smallest 1080p cell phone. Oh yeah you'd only be streaming GBs of data, hope the new phones have about 60 gigs in storage. how is this guy an analyst?
So narrow a view.
Many people in Europe use 3G mobile data instead of fixed line broadband. It's now fast enough and cheap enough that it competes quite well. If Apple added 3G to the iPhone AND added the missing support to allow what you call 'tethering' in the USA, there's no reason why you couldn't use it for streaming HD video.
1) All phones have to get FCC approval for use in the US. That's one reason why Nokia etc tend to release phones in Europe first. They can sell them on day one there while applying for the FCC approval. Jobs will announce in July and deliver in October.
2) 3G is vastly faster but most phone's processors mean that web pages are rendered as slowly as EDGE. Using a laptop over 3G is great. To have an idea of what 3G will be like on 3G: get a s60 phone in a 3G area, turn it into a wifi hotspot and then use an iPhone over the S60's 3G network. It's not bad.
The problem with the iPhone 'EDGE is as fast as 3G' apologists is that 3G is a broad term. IIRC technically EDGE is fast enough to classed as 3G.
Yes, the iPhone managed to just about hold it's own in a test with an E series Nokia 3G phone from 2005 using a CPU a third the speed and a 3G radio chip that only just managed to dip it's toe into the low end of 3G.
The problem for Apple is that it's 2008, not 2005. 3G speeds in Europe are usually 3.6Mbps or 7.2Mbps and people use them instead of wifi. Increasingly people are using them instead of fixed broadband lines. Sometimes it's actually faster than ADSLMax (8Mb theoretically - more often more like 4) in the UK.
The other problem being that we never had EDGE until the iPhone as it wasn't needed.
I agree that folks are underestimating the number of people waiting for the 3G version of the iPhone to release. I know I'm not the only one waiting for the next version before jumping into the iPhone pool. People may not just be waiting for the 3G feature, but are saving their iPhone dollars for the next version.
I decided in Jan that I would buy the next gen iPhone as soon as it became available. So count me in that group who has their $600 put aside and waiting.
I am not a real tech geek, so maybe this is off-base. Aside from no-3G, one of the biggest complaints for the iPhone was lack of Flash support. Might Apple in their wisdom not included Flash because people accessing Flash content via the edge network would have really complained about poor speed? And with the addition of 3G, could Flash support follow? In other words, when the virtual pipe is large enough (3G), will Flash be added? I'll take that over streaming HD
Comments
3G ... the chip is smaller, cheaper and far less power hungry.
Instead of the Blackjack, compare the size of the new Samsung F480:
It's slimmer and considerably smaller than the iPhone and packs 7.2Mbit 3G HSDPA and a 5 megapixel autofocus camera. (Along with a large touch screen, etc)
Apple can easily fit all of these things AND a bigger battery in something the same size or SMALLER than todays iPhone.
Instead of the Blackjack, compare the size of the new Samsung F480:
It's slimmer and considerably smaller than the iPhone and packs 7.2Mbit 3G HSDPA and a 5 megapixel autofocus camera. (Along with a large touch screen, etc)
Apple can easily fit all of these things AND a bigger battery in something the same size or SMALLER than todays iPhone.
You can do it. I grabbed that pic from AnandTech as it clearly shows the size differences between chip types. Of course things are smaller now and Apple is more apt than others to making the most with a small space.
edit:
I just checked the specs on the Samsung F480 due out this Spring. There are some nice features to it but the real killer, outside of the OS, is the QVGA display. That is half the resolution of the iPhone. And at 2.8" vs the iPhones 3.5" the pixels are a lot larger too.
The iPhone is slightly larger on all three dimensions but not by much and the more fluid rounding of the iPhone indicated that the volume of the two devices are music closer than the HxLxD indicate. I'm sure it will have it's followers. It's an attractive phone and the large stereo speakers and FM radio will be wanted by some.
Still, we can't open up a device that isn't on the market yet so we'll just have for it to be released before someone does a full breakdown of it.
That's hilarious.
A) Know the difference between EDGE and 3G;
C) If they give a damn, would be willing to make any significant sacrifice in battery life to get it.
I suspect the far right tail of that distribution is very small; I'm certainly not in it.
I would love to see a scientific poll (not a sampling of opinions by tech forum posters) on what percentage of even iPhone buyers:
A) Know the difference between EDGE and 3G;
C) If they give a damn, would be willing to make any significant sacrifice in battery life to get it.
I suspect the far right tail of that distribution is very small; I'm certainly not in it.
Reminds me of the debate over DRM iTunes songs... turns out that no, America doesn't give a rat's colon about it.
I would assume "streaming HD" means high definition for a mobile device. It's all relative, high definition just means higher than you're used to doesn't it? 320x240 is perfectly acceptable on a small screen, so something like 640x480 would be absolutely fantastic, etc. etc.
Well, you MIGHT be right. What I think is more likely though, is that you're simply saying something more intelligent than the analyst said, and you're cutting him some slack and saying that's probably what he meant. But the idea of "HD" is now ingrained enough that we all know it's either 720p, 1080i, or 1080p. I think he really meant HD.
It reminds me of Scott Adams talking about managers wanting to sound intelligent by combining concepts, and ending up saying stuff like "Let's make the fax multimedia." One of the guy's engineers might come along and say something clever about what that might mean, but the cleverness was on the part of the second guy, not the first.
Macs can't even rent HD quality movies, only apple tv can. Second, WHY would you want to watch HD video that will have to get scaled down 4x to fit the screen, unless they invent the worlds smallest 1080p cell phone. Oh yeah you'd only be streaming GBs of data, hope the new phones have about 60 gigs in storage.
Streaming HD video does seem a bit weird! Certainly no point on the phone (and the 3G networks aren't going to give unlimited downloads of HD videos!).
However, my brother would love to visit my parents (or his wife's work or my home) where he could login to the network on his iPhone and rent a HD movie - to take home and sync to his AppleTV. His home network is incapable.
I know I'm not the only one waiting for the next version before jumping into the iPhone pool.
I'm waiting too. It's killing me!
I've had an iPhone since September and have been mostly happy with the EDGE network. This 3G network of which you speak will have to be a helluva lot better than what I have now, or disappointment can turn into anger.
Are you sure it's going to be that great?
And, by the way, if you are one of those saying that the only thing holding you back from buying an iPhone was that it wasn't 3G, and the next version IS 3G, you damn well had better buy one or you are nothing but a liar!
I hope you are right. I hope the web on the iPhone becomes awesomely fast. But, I have also heard lots of hype and seen lots of under-delivering and I have this gnawing feeling that 3G will only be marginally better than EDGE. Don't bother throwing specs at me (USB 2.0 is better than FireWire 400? Yeah, right.), I'll reserve judgment until I can see real-world performance!
One of the two things I've been waiting for in the iPhone IS 3G. The second is third party (supported) apps.
We are getting the second first.
As for 3G, yeah, it is a lot faster. I have friends with the iPhone. My Treo 700p has 3G, and when we try getting to the same pages, my phone loads much faster. Now, it's true that the iPhone has a bit more to load per page, but, even so, the difference is pronounced.
As for battery life and size, 2mm would be noticeably thicker. I really, really like the current iPhone form factor, though I guess I might grant you an extra 1mm at a push.
I'm not too worried about battery life. I'm never away from a computer for more than a day at a time, and I've got spare iPod dock connectors coming out of my ears, so if I had to charge it every night that wouldn't be too much of a problem. The fact I can comfortably go a couple of days without charging right now means I never have to worry about it.
Noticeable only when comparing two phones side by side. Otherwise, you would never know.
Battery life is always important. More is always better.
I'm sure someone here will say that they do, but It's not that big of an issue.
I've used two batteries with all sorts of my cell phones!
But here's the catch. It has been because I am lazy. Having an extra battery around allows me to avoid charging it at night -- or generally approach charging from a sloppy perspective -- and still have juice when I need it. Now that I have an iPhone I charge it almost every night. Battery life has never been a problem for me with the iPhone. Even though I use it pretty regularly it can easily make it through a few days without getting too critical in battery life (it was ugly for a little while after one of the patches, though).
The fuss about replaceable batteries really is over-hyped.
Well, you MIGHT be right. What I think is more likely though, is that you're simply saying something more intelligent than the analyst said, and you're cutting him some slack and saying that's probably what he meant. But the idea of "HD" is now ingrained enough that we all know it's either 720p, 1080i, or 1080p. I think he really meant HD.
It reminds me of Scott Adams talking about managers wanting to sound intelligent by combining concepts, and ending up saying stuff like "Let's make the fax multimedia." One of the guy's engineers might come along and say something clever about what that might mean, but the cleverness was on the part of the second guy, not the first.
Well, you know, one of the best features of the iPhone's video, just like that of the iPod, is that it can be played over a Tv. And don't forget that an iPhone, and iPod now, can store, and play back, a 640 x 480 movie, or video, over that Tv.
It would be great if it could do that for a 720p video as well. Perhaps that's what he means. I think we're jumping over him for no good reason.
I've used two batteries with all sorts of my cell phones!
But here's the catch. It has been because I am lazy. Having an extra battery around allows me to avoid charging it at night -- or generally approach charging from a sloppy perspective -- and still have juice when I need it. Now that I have an iPhone I charge it almost every night. Battery life has never been a problem for me with the iPhone. Even though I use it pretty regularly it can easily make it through a few days without getting too critical in battery life (it was ugly for a little while after one of the patches, though).
The fuss about replaceable batteries really is over-hyped.
There's always someone.
But, that's the truth. As long as you plug in over night, which is certainly easy enough, there's no problem. How many people are using their phone for 7 hours every day?
Ori Blum
Nice name.
What else was your post about?
streaming HD video? What the heck is he talking about? First, where are you going to stream from? Macs can't even rent HD quality movies, only apple tv can. Second, WHY would you want to watch HD video that will have to get scaled down 4x to fit the screen, unless they invent the worlds smallest 1080p cell phone. Oh yeah you'd only be streaming GBs of data, hope the new phones have about 60 gigs in storage. how is this guy an analyst?
So narrow a view.
Many people in Europe use 3G mobile data instead of fixed line broadband. It's now fast enough and cheap enough that it competes quite well. If Apple added 3G to the iPhone AND added the missing support to allow what you call 'tethering' in the USA, there's no reason why you couldn't use it for streaming HD video.
2) 3G is vastly faster but most phone's processors mean that web pages are rendered as slowly as EDGE. Using a laptop over 3G is great. To have an idea of what 3G will be like on 3G: get a s60 phone in a 3G area, turn it into a wifi hotspot and then use an iPhone over the S60's 3G network. It's not bad.
Yes, the iPhone managed to just about hold it's own in a test with an E series Nokia 3G phone from 2005 using a CPU a third the speed and a 3G radio chip that only just managed to dip it's toe into the low end of 3G.
The problem for Apple is that it's 2008, not 2005. 3G speeds in Europe are usually 3.6Mbps or 7.2Mbps and people use them instead of wifi. Increasingly people are using them instead of fixed broadband lines. Sometimes it's actually faster than ADSLMax (8Mb theoretically - more often more like 4) in the UK.
The other problem being that we never had EDGE until the iPhone as it wasn't needed.
I agree that folks are underestimating the number of people waiting for the 3G version of the iPhone to release. I know I'm not the only one waiting for the next version before jumping into the iPhone pool. People may not just be waiting for the 3G feature, but are saving their iPhone dollars for the next version.
I decided in Jan that I would buy the next gen iPhone as soon as it became available. So count me in that group who has their $600 put aside and waiting.
I am not a real tech geek, so maybe this is off-base. Aside from no-3G, one of the biggest complaints for the iPhone was lack of Flash support. Might Apple in their wisdom not included Flash because people accessing Flash content via the edge network would have really complained about poor speed? And with the addition of 3G, could Flash support follow? In other words, when the virtual pipe is large enough (3G), will Flash be added? I'll take that over streaming HD