The iPod has been very open. There have always been abundant legal options for content other than iTunes. The only restriction was the use of DRM other than Fairplay. The list of non-DRM sources of music only grows.
Video on the other hand has always had copy protection. Video will always have DRM. Because of this the only legal option for content on Apple TV is iTunes. There needs to be more options.
It may be my lack of imagination. But I really don't see what Apple can bring to DVR service that is so much better or a geat deal more covenient than what is already available. That this function will make the ATV a billion dollar device.
Depending on your DVR, I think you can hook up your DVR to one of the new DTV converter boxes. You would have to have one per tuner to do a multi-tuner setup.
The new converter box will only allow us to DVD-R the show I am watching on TV ...unlike I can now. ..I now can watch one show while taping another show...
As much as we would all love to see it happen, I have doubts. Having the ability to record shows I may miss, or movies on HBO would seriously conflict with my desire or need to buy shows through iTunes. That being said, perhaps they see that market not going anywhere and they are planning for a different approach.
The iPod has been very open. There have always been abundant legal options for content other than iTunes. The only restriction was the use of DRM other than Fairplay. The list of non-DRM sources of music only grows.
Video on the other hand has always had copy protection. Video will always have DRM. Because of this the only legal option for content on Apple TV is iTunes. There needs to be more options.
No the iPod has not been very open. Unless you only mean that it could play non-DRM'd music. Great. The AppleTV can play non-DRM'd video too, so that make it just as open. Maybe there are not as many non-DRM'd options for video sources, but that does't make it less open. Try buying DRM music from one of the other vendors and playing it on your iPod, without stripping the DRM first.
You say the only restriction on the iPod was the use of DRM other than Fairplay..how is this different for AppleTV? So long as it is a supported video codec, it should play on the AppleTV, just as supported non-DRM's codec make the iPod "open".
Not in the phrase "All for one and one for All" in its original context it ment 4 so "All" = 4
So.. that'll be the Mac pro, the Mac Book Pro, the iMac and the Mac Book.
go on, I double dare you to be pedantic
The dare is on.
No, "All" did not equal 4. It was the motto of Athos, Porthos, and Aramis ? inseparable friends (Three Muskateers) who lived by the motto, "One for all, and all for one" Let's see, that means 3.
Now it is the traditional motto of Switzerland, which refers to the entire population.
By the way, it is Mac Pro, MacBook Pro and MacBook. The latter, I doubt, will be awhile coming.
It may be my lack of imagination. But I really don't see what Apple can bring to DVR service that is so much better or a geat deal more covenient than what is already available. That this function will make the ATV a billion dollar device.
Identical comments were made on these boards when the iPod first came out. "What can apple bring to MP3 players that isn't already out there"
Maybe it is a matter of what is offered, how it is offered and who is offering it. Sort of Apple's specialty of late.
I think this is a good idea. Consumers love DVR on their tv sets once they get them.
My only concern is that my cable operator has me locked into their DVR service. In order for me to receive HD channels I had to get their HD set top box which has DVR included. Its a Motorola 'box' and its been disappointing to me. The set has had to be replaced once already (within the first 6 months) and it is extremely noisy even when the tv is turned off.
I imagine an ATV would blow my moxie box away. But I'm not sure I'll ever get to find out.
No the iPod has not been very open. Unless you only mean that it could play non-DRM'd music. Great. The AppleTV can play non-DRM'd video too, so that make it just as open. Maybe there are not as many non-DRM'd options for video sources, but that does't make it less open. Try buying DRM music from one of the other vendors and playing it on your iPod, without stripping the DRM first.
You say the only restriction on the iPod was the use of DRM other than Fairplay..how is this different for AppleTV? So long as it is a supported video codec, it should play on the AppleTV, just as supported non-DRM's codec make the iPod "open".
Without getting into "open" vs "standard" vs "common", you could argue that Apple TV is LESS than the iPod in that it supports only a very limited set of video formats compared to the formats that are in common use today. It would be as if the iPod only supported ACC but not MP3, which is a far, far more commonly used format.
So for open (ie, non-DRM) formats, Apple TV is very limited compared to the iPod. Factor in the availability of non-DRM vs DRM content and the ability to play your existing content (CD vs DVD), and you could very easily argue that the Apple TV is less open than the iPod (from a usabilty standpoint if not from the strict sense of "open standards").
Why would Apple put DVR functions in an Apple TV when it wants you to buy the show or rent the movie from iTunes. Apple has the potential to become a 'TV' company using the Internet connection in your home, Apple TV and iTunes. I could agree with the idea of adding an over-the-air tuner and DVR in to capture broadcast TV. It still cannibalizes iTunes sales but adds the ability to replace the cable company in that you have your "cable" channels on iTunes and regular news and sports via antenna. Kind of like what the dish companies have had to do. But having a DVR to supplement cable does not make any sense. Sure they could do it way, way better but that takes them further away from the real prize which is having people cancel their cable subscription all together and just use iTunes, like I do. All I had to do was get an Apple TV, some rabbit ears, anEyeTV for my mac and no more Comcast for me. Oh the joy of never having to see another cable bill.
I think this is a good idea. Consumers love DVR on their tv sets once they get them.
My only concern is that my cable operator has me locked into their DVR service. In order for me to receive HD channels I had to get their HD set top box which has DVR included. Its a Motorola 'box' and its been disappointing to me. The set has had to be replaced once already (within the first 6 months) and it is extremely noisy even when the tv is turned off.
I imagine an ATV would blow my moxie box away. But I'm not sure I'll ever get to find out.
Who is your cable provider? Unless it's a small mom-and-pop operation, cable providers are required to support a method for use of 3rd party set-top boxes. Currently, that means CableCard support. So they are not allowed to force you to use their set-top box to use their TV service (note, you'll lose VOD and PPV, which currently does require their set-up box). It's true that a TiVo will not work with your HD cable box, but with a TiVo HD, you don't need the HD cable box. It replaces both the DVR and the tuner (cable box). The CableCard is in essence the tuner. You get that from your cable provider and insert it into the slot in the TiVo (or whatever other device you have).
Who is your cable provider? Unless it's a small mom-and-pop operation, cable providers are required to support a method for use of 3rd party set-top boxes. Currently, that means CableCard support. So they are not allowed to force you to use their set-top box to use their TV service (note, you'll lose VOD and PPV, which currently does require their set-up box). It's true that a TiVo will not work with your HD cable box, but with a TiVo HD, you don't need the HD cable box. It replaces both the DVR and the tuner (cable box). The CableCard is in essence the tuner. You get that from your cable provider and insert it into the slot in the TiVo (or whatever other device you have).
It is a 'mom and pop' operator. Its called new wave communications.
I live in a rural area and we don't get a lot of choice when it comes to technology.
Wu said the cost of hardware components needed to equip the media box with DVR features is almost negligible, or about $12-15 in incremental cost per unit.
"We (as well as many others) have been clamoring for DVR and/or TV tuner capabilities since the introduction of Apple TV 1.0 in January 2007 and even Apple TV 2.0 with movie rentals in January 2008," he added. "We are pleased to see Apple listening to customers similar to what it has done with iPhone, with adding native access to Exchange server."
It's scary, but I have to agree with Shaw Wu. As usual, there are plenty of things that Apple COULD do, and more that Apple SHOULD do if it were a normal company run by a normal CEO with a university business degree. Alas, we're stuck with the present CEO, his high school degree and his so-called "vision".
The real question is:
Why didn't Apple include DVR and digital TV tuner capabilities with any of its Apple TV units?
Since I don't have an HDTV, Apple TV is of no use to me. Perhaps in a few years I'll get one. When I do, it will require new furniture so it will be an expensive proposition.
That's odd, I bought a Sony 32" Bravia last October and don't recall new furniture under the requirements on the Apple TV box. So far my old couch works perfectly with it.
I had a roommate with Tivo. It was fine. But once I moved out, I didn't find it worth the service charge for how rarely I used it. If AppleTV had DVR functionality without the service charge, I would use it much more.
I realize ~$13 a month is not a ton, but for how often I would use it, I'd rather buy a few more beers with that cash.
Man the ability to season pass the MANY shows we watch, record/organize them for me and to search for new ones makes that fee seem miniscule. If time is money, then the cost is equal to about 15-30 minutes of my time. Not bad.
I would buy one ASAP but only if it does not have monthly fee. As much as I enjoy using TiVo, $12.95/month ($8.31/month if one prepays $299 for 3 years) for what amounts to occasional software update and TV listing is exorbitant for many folks. I suspect monthly subscription is the primary reason for slow user adoption.
If TV Guide, Yahoo!, etc. can provide TV listing for free (with banner advertisements), then Apple, too, can provide DVR with ads (or other clever revenue generator) in lieu of monthly fee. Heck, El Gato provides TV listing without fee of any kind. And I don't see how software features such as season pass warrant recurring fee.
So what DVR is better? It's sure not the ones supplied by the cable or FiOS companies.
I love my Toshiba 120GB Tivo 2 box. I'm able to use it with my DirectTV account and also decode to my Mac using Tivo DecodeManager. I nearly bought a Tivo 3 box but after reading about the shortcomings I went to eBay and found this slightly used Tivo 2. The only thing I've had to do was upgrade from the 802.11 "b" USB transmitter to the "g" version when I upgraded to the Airport Extreme "n". I just couldn't get my new "n" network to reconize the WEP password of the old one.
ouragan, your post MUST be sarcasm. I mean, it IS sarcasm right? How can anyone be so collossally ignorant of how brilliant Steve Jobs has been in running Apple? Hundreds of thousands of people have gotten "business degrees" in the last decade or two, how many are running a company with a market cap of over 100 BILLION? I'll answer for you, not very many.
The best part is that you probably HAVE a business degree. So please, amaze us with all your business accomplishments!
Comments
The iPod has been very open. There have always been abundant legal options for content other than iTunes. The only restriction was the use of DRM other than Fairplay. The list of non-DRM sources of music only grows.
Video on the other hand has always had copy protection. Video will always have DRM. Because of this the only legal option for content on Apple TV is iTunes. There needs to be more options.
It may be my lack of imagination. But I really don't see what Apple can bring to DVR service that is so much better or a geat deal more covenient than what is already available. That this function will make the ATV a billion dollar device.
Depending on your DVR, I think you can hook up your DVR to one of the new DTV converter boxes. You would have to have one per tuner to do a multi-tuner setup.
The new converter box will only allow us to DVD-R the show I am watching on TV ...unlike I can now. ..I now can watch one show while taping another show...
@Tulkas
The iPod has been very open. There have always been abundant legal options for content other than iTunes. The only restriction was the use of DRM other than Fairplay. The list of non-DRM sources of music only grows.
Video on the other hand has always had copy protection. Video will always have DRM. Because of this the only legal option for content on Apple TV is iTunes. There needs to be more options.
No the iPod has not been very open. Unless you only mean that it could play non-DRM'd music. Great. The AppleTV can play non-DRM'd video too, so that make it just as open. Maybe there are not as many non-DRM'd options for video sources, but that does't make it less open. Try buying DRM music from one of the other vendors and playing it on your iPod, without stripping the DRM first.
You say the only restriction on the iPod was the use of DRM other than Fairplay..how is this different for AppleTV? So long as it is a supported video codec, it should play on the AppleTV, just as supported non-DRM's codec make the iPod "open".
Not in the phrase "All for one and one for All" in its original context it ment 4 so "All" = 4
So.. that'll be the Mac pro, the Mac Book Pro, the iMac and the Mac Book.
go on, I double dare you to be pedantic
The dare is on.
No, "All" did not equal 4. It was the motto of Athos, Porthos, and Aramis ? inseparable friends (Three Muskateers) who lived by the motto, "One for all, and all for one" Let's see, that means 3.
Now it is the traditional motto of Switzerland, which refers to the entire population.
By the way, it is Mac Pro, MacBook Pro and MacBook. The latter, I doubt, will be awhile coming.
It is great to be surrounded by so many profs.
@JeffDM
It may be my lack of imagination. But I really don't see what Apple can bring to DVR service that is so much better or a geat deal more covenient than what is already available. That this function will make the ATV a billion dollar device.
Identical comments were made on these boards when the iPod first came out. "What can apple bring to MP3 players that isn't already out there"
Maybe it is a matter of what is offered, how it is offered and who is offering it. Sort of Apple's specialty of late.
My only concern is that my cable operator has me locked into their DVR service. In order for me to receive HD channels I had to get their HD set top box which has DVR included. Its a Motorola 'box' and its been disappointing to me. The set has had to be replaced once already (within the first 6 months) and it is extremely noisy even when the tv is turned off.
I imagine an ATV would blow my moxie box away. But I'm not sure I'll ever get to find out.
No the iPod has not been very open. Unless you only mean that it could play non-DRM'd music. Great. The AppleTV can play non-DRM'd video too, so that make it just as open. Maybe there are not as many non-DRM'd options for video sources, but that does't make it less open. Try buying DRM music from one of the other vendors and playing it on your iPod, without stripping the DRM first.
You say the only restriction on the iPod was the use of DRM other than Fairplay..how is this different for AppleTV? So long as it is a supported video codec, it should play on the AppleTV, just as supported non-DRM's codec make the iPod "open".
Without getting into "open" vs "standard" vs "common", you could argue that Apple TV is LESS than the iPod in that it supports only a very limited set of video formats compared to the formats that are in common use today. It would be as if the iPod only supported ACC but not MP3, which is a far, far more commonly used format.
So for open (ie, non-DRM) formats, Apple TV is very limited compared to the iPod. Factor in the availability of non-DRM vs DRM content and the ability to play your existing content (CD vs DVD), and you could very easily argue that the Apple TV is less open than the iPod (from a usabilty standpoint if not from the strict sense of "open standards").
I think this is a good idea. Consumers love DVR on their tv sets once they get them.
My only concern is that my cable operator has me locked into their DVR service. In order for me to receive HD channels I had to get their HD set top box which has DVR included. Its a Motorola 'box' and its been disappointing to me. The set has had to be replaced once already (within the first 6 months) and it is extremely noisy even when the tv is turned off.
I imagine an ATV would blow my moxie box away. But I'm not sure I'll ever get to find out.
Who is your cable provider? Unless it's a small mom-and-pop operation, cable providers are required to support a method for use of 3rd party set-top boxes. Currently, that means CableCard support. So they are not allowed to force you to use their set-top box to use their TV service (note, you'll lose VOD and PPV, which currently does require their set-up box). It's true that a TiVo will not work with your HD cable box, but with a TiVo HD, you don't need the HD cable box. It replaces both the DVR and the tuner (cable box). The CableCard is in essence the tuner. You get that from your cable provider and insert it into the slot in the TiVo (or whatever other device you have).
That would be unlikely, because Cisco owns Scientific Atlanta,
which is a major set-top box manufacturer.
Why would this be an issue?
The two boxes would connect to each other.
Apple isnt making a cable receiver.
You need both.
I think this is possible...
Who is your cable provider? Unless it's a small mom-and-pop operation, cable providers are required to support a method for use of 3rd party set-top boxes. Currently, that means CableCard support. So they are not allowed to force you to use their set-top box to use their TV service (note, you'll lose VOD and PPV, which currently does require their set-up box). It's true that a TiVo will not work with your HD cable box, but with a TiVo HD, you don't need the HD cable box. It replaces both the DVR and the tuner (cable box). The CableCard is in essence the tuner. You get that from your cable provider and insert it into the slot in the TiVo (or whatever other device you have).
It is a 'mom and pop' operator. Its called new wave communications.
I live in a rural area and we don't get a lot of choice when it comes to technology.
Wu said the cost of hardware components needed to equip the media box with DVR features is almost negligible, or about $12-15 in incremental cost per unit.
"We (as well as many others) have been clamoring for DVR and/or TV tuner capabilities since the introduction of Apple TV 1.0 in January 2007 and even Apple TV 2.0 with movie rentals in January 2008," he added. "We are pleased to see Apple listening to customers similar to what it has done with iPhone, with adding native access to Exchange server."
It's scary, but I have to agree with Shaw Wu. As usual, there are plenty of things that Apple COULD do, and more that Apple SHOULD do if it were a normal company run by a normal CEO with a university business degree. Alas, we're stuck with the present CEO, his high school degree and his so-called "vision".
The real question is:
Why didn't Apple include DVR and digital TV tuner capabilities with any of its Apple TV units?
Since I don't have an HDTV, Apple TV is of no use to me. Perhaps in a few years I'll get one. When I do, it will require new furniture so it will be an expensive proposition.
That's odd, I bought a Sony 32" Bravia last October and don't recall new furniture under the requirements on the Apple TV box. So far my old couch works perfectly with it.
But today cable companies dominate the DVR market that I'd unlikely to change.
Today RIM/Blackberry dominate the smartphone market. At one time somebody dominated the MP3 player market.
I had a roommate with Tivo. It was fine. But once I moved out, I didn't find it worth the service charge for how rarely I used it. If AppleTV had DVR functionality without the service charge, I would use it much more.
I realize ~$13 a month is not a ton, but for how often I would use it, I'd rather buy a few more beers with that cash.
Man the ability to season pass the MANY shows we watch, record/organize them for me and to search for new ones makes that fee seem miniscule. If time is money, then the cost is equal to about 15-30 minutes of my time. Not bad.
If TV Guide, Yahoo!, etc. can provide TV listing for free (with banner advertisements), then Apple, too, can provide DVR with ads (or other clever revenue generator) in lieu of monthly fee. Heck, El Gato provides TV listing without fee of any kind. And I don't see how software features such as season pass warrant recurring fee.
So what DVR is better? It's sure not the ones supplied by the cable or FiOS companies.
I love my Toshiba 120GB Tivo 2 box. I'm able to use it with my DirectTV account and also decode to my Mac using Tivo DecodeManager. I nearly bought a Tivo 3 box but after reading about the shortcomings I went to eBay and found this slightly used Tivo 2. The only thing I've had to do was upgrade from the 802.11 "b" USB transmitter to the "g" version when I upgraded to the Airport Extreme "n". I just couldn't get my new "n" network to reconize the WEP password of the old one.
The best part is that you probably HAVE a business degree. So please, amaze us with all your business accomplishments!