Oh yea steve jobs came by today and said thats all wrong!, this robe-ought to be dry by now, then I said "clever. now tell me when I wiill be forkign over my cash for the g5" he said "well heres one right now" then he handed me my current system which is a g5 1.6 ghz 333 mhz FSB 512 Megs of 333 mhz ddr-ram with a 120 gig byte hardrive and an ati rage 128 pro(apparently these things are the best)
MacMall rep told me that the Ti Books are 133 MHz bus?MOSR says the New PM due in Feb. will still be QuickSilvers?Would they not want to differentiate them from last yrs models?They state that Apple has been working on a shorter,wider case for the PM for two years.I just hope they ship a G-5 with all the latest technology sometime soon this year.
I think the demand would be dramatic.I really believe that Apollo will be for the low-end PM and also for the Ti PowerBook.
Why is the evidence of the G4 more solid than that of the G5?
1. Moto announced G4 Apollos in Oct 2000. They might actually be making them now.
2. Moto reported that Ghz+ G4 Apollos were "on schedule for early 2002". That would be now.
3. Moto actually makes G4s today, now, currently in "early 2002."
Let's look at the evidence for the G5... ... ... ... the Register ... bunk from AI board ... ... hmm ... ... that's about it.
How about the evidence against the G5.
1. They don't actually make them now.
2. They only announced the 8540 on Oct 17, 2001. A full YEAR after they announced the Apollo, which in case nobody has noticed, is NOT even shipping 1+ years later.
3. As someone else pointed out the first G5 announced isn't even targeted at desktops
4. CPU in #3 won't even begin SAMPLING until 2nd quarter 2002.
5. Motorolas track record.
So in order for there to be a G5 anywhere in the near future, we'd need to see them ship their "next generation" processor at nearly the same time they ship a product announced a year and a half ago AND we haven't even seen that processor yet.
I'd love to see a G5 really soon now(tm), but it just ain't gonna happen no matter how optimistic you are or how pessimistic (realistic) other are.
<strong>Ah, it's good to see others take up the cause of sanity (i.e., the G5 ain't coming tomorrow).
I've actually become quite bored with it.
SdC</strong><hr></blockquote>
"Sanity"? There are plenty of hints from various developers (among other rumors) that the G5 is a real possibility (although not nessesarily a probability). It's not insane to think that a G5 may come. Personally I'm getting "Quite bored" hearing you keep on repeating your opinion that they definately won't come. For the record I think that G4's are more likely but I don't rule out the possibility of a G5.
"Sanity"? There are plenty of hints from various developers (among other rumors) that the G5 is a real possibility (although not nessesarily a probability). It's not insane to think that a G5 may come. Personally I'm getting "Quite bored" hearing you keep on repeating your opinion that they definately won't come. For the record I think that G4's are more likely but I don't rule out the possibility of a G5.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Show me one. Every single G5 link is based on 2 year old news, or by people who don't know shit from shinola.
Presented at Smart Networks Developer Forum, May 20-23, 2001. They focus a great deal on the e-500 core and the upcoming G5 chips. Yes, they're talking about the embedded chip, but it's silly to assume that they're putting all this effort into it if its going to be an embedded chip and nothing more. It is logical to assume that Apple is insisting they keep the desktop version under wraps. They may not be, but it is reasonable to suggest it.
"MOSR has misinformation... (1:50pm EST Tue Apr 10 2001)
...as usual. The G5 will not start out multicore and MacOS Rumors has the speeds wrong. On a 130nm process with SOI and copper, the 14 stage pipeline G5 will start at 1.6GHz and scale well beyond 2GHz. But before that we will see a 7460 G4 made on a 130nm SOI process, functionally equal to the 7450 but on an improved process. This G4 (codenamed Apollo), will achieve 1.2GHz and scall to most likely 1.7-1.8GHz.
Shortly (a quarter) after the debut of the 7460, you will see the 7500 on the same process in early 2002 with speeds between 1.6GHz and 2.5GHz. In late 2002 you will see the 100nm 75X0 start out at 2.4GHz and scale up to 3.5GHz. Also, MOSR neglected to mention that the 7500 will make extensive use of Rapid IO and have an on die DDR memory controller. The RIO ports will have a fast serial connection to several devices on the motherboard such as PCI-X bridges, peripheral controllers, ethernet and firewire controllers. The RIO bus is a serial 16-bit hub topology but runs at high speed (500-1000MHz). - by Mot insider"
[Note: This past summer Moto announced the renaming of the 7500 series to 8500.]
In light of what we know has transpired in the last 8 mo., he is very accurate on the Apollo information (particularly if they're what's coming next week at 1.2-1.4 GHz). That lends credance to his comments on the G5.
Those of you who claim there have been no reports of the G5 in the last two years ought to do a little nosing around on Motorola's web site and do a web search for "Motorola G5". You'll get thousands of hits. Yes, a lot of them are reports of a report of a report, but there are a few genuine nuggets in there, too. Its reliability is a matter of opinion, but saying it doesn't exist is ludicrous.
What we are talking about here is information directly stemming from Motorola or Apple. The only recent document that mentions the G5 (the 64 bit processor we want to learn to love) is the roadmap, and that basically gives no information about the non-embedded part.
There is a difference between admissable evidence and hearsay. The geek.com reply is most definitely hearsay, and the only place I've seen it suggested the G5 might have a 14 stage pipeline.
I don't say any of this is wrong just "not proven" (a verdict available only to Scottish courts). I also will not speculate on when it might appear.
I've been reading the posts on whether or not the G5 is coming and I noticed that in general, the posts from people who say "no G5" have an overall negative tone while the posts from people who say "G5 is coming" are generally positive. The "no G5" posts seem to come from people who are unhappy and miserable.
Pessimists, don't worry, be happy. You'll live longer.
<strong>"MOSR has misinformation... (1:50pm EST Tue Apr 10 2001)
...as usual. The G5 will ... <omitted for brevity> </strong><hr></blockquote>
This is at least as plausible as anything else we've heard. Since it is quoted from April 2001 a schedule alteration of +/- 1 quarter could easily be expected -- either way. One way is the usual engineering slippage. The other way is Steve Jobs yelling at them to hurry up. The technical information in the quote looks reasonable as well, nothing outlandish. The only new bit is the 14-stage pipeline. RapidIO is one possibility, but perhaps Apple yanked that out and stuck in HyperTransport because that could help them deliver sooner.
Still no conclusive information either way. The pessimists can continue to be pessimistic, and the optimists can continue to be optimistic. I prefer to be optimistic, and if I'm wrong then I just think about how much money I'm not going to spend on a new Mac for another quarter or two!
This is at least as plausible as anything else we've heard.
<SNIP>
Still no conclusive information either way. The pessimists can continue to be pessimistic, and the optimists can continue to be optimistic. I prefer to be optimistic, and if I'm wrong then I just think about how much money I'm not going to spend on a new Mac for another quarter or two!</strong><hr></blockquote>
Yes indeed. And I so resemble that closing sentence.
"MOSR has misinformation... (1:50pm EST Tue Apr 10 2001)
...as usual. The G5 will ... <omitted for brevity> <hr></blockquote>
Is the Apollo the 7500? The article said the 7500 is now the 8500. Could that be the head of all the confusion and the premise behind the assertion "The G5 will be a renamed G4+ Apollo"?
Maybe everyone is right, the Apollo is coming out as the G5!? That's the best of both worlds if indeed it does scale that high and have all those features.
1.4 GHz is fine with me, G4 or G5 it wouldn't matter very much. I suppose a 1.4 or 1.6 GHz G4 would throw everyone for a loop, since those predicting the Apollo are saying that it will top out at 1.2 GHz or so, and those predicting the G5 are saying 1.4-1.6 GHz.
So basically that would mean that all of the speculation here at AI is wrong, but in a good way!
Basically, G4 Apollo starting at 1.0ghz and possibly topping out at 1.4ghz like NMR said. New mobo!! Also, could be released next week, or in Feb, or in march. So no one knows when we will get them.
But, maybe the Apollo will be the G5? New mobo, 1.4ghz chip, new case, hell, it sounds like a G5 to me!! <img src="graemlins/smokin.gif" border="0" alt="[Chilling]" />
Is the Apollo the 7500? The article said the 7500 is now the 8500. Could that be the head of all the confusion and the premise behind the assertion "The G5 will be a renamed G4+ Apollo"?
Maybe everyone is right, the Apollo is coming out as the G5!? That's the best of both worlds if indeed it does scale that high and have all those features.</strong><hr></blockquote>
I don't think this is the case -- the Apollo is the 7460 and Apple will call it a G4. I don't think they'd want the PR stink that would likely happen if they just rebadged it a G5. The 7500 was renumbered to 8500 when Moto started planning out its "G5" strategy. New core and bus interface.
Comments
I think the demand would be dramatic.I really believe that Apollo will be for the low-end PM and also for the Ti PowerBook.
1. Moto announced G4 Apollos in Oct 2000. They might actually be making them now.
2. Moto reported that Ghz+ G4 Apollos were "on schedule for early 2002". That would be now.
3. Moto actually makes G4s today, now, currently in "early 2002."
Let's look at the evidence for the G5... ... ... ... the Register ... bunk from AI board ... ... hmm ... ... that's about it.
How about the evidence against the G5.
1. They don't actually make them now.
2. They only announced the 8540 on Oct 17, 2001. A full YEAR after they announced the Apollo, which in case nobody has noticed, is NOT even shipping 1+ years later.
3. As someone else pointed out the first G5 announced isn't even targeted at desktops
4. CPU in #3 won't even begin SAMPLING until 2nd quarter 2002.
5. Motorolas track record.
So in order for there to be a G5 anywhere in the near future, we'd need to see them ship their "next generation" processor at nearly the same time they ship a product announced a year and a half ago AND we haven't even seen that processor yet.
I'd love to see a G5 really soon now(tm), but it just ain't gonna happen no matter how optimistic you are or how pessimistic (realistic) other are.
[ 01-15-2002: Message edited by: SFVcpz ]</p>
1. They don't actually make them now. <hr></blockquote>
So you've been to Moto and IBM's plants to see what currently on the lines? Wow, then you are more knopwledable then I thought!
I've actually become quite bored with it.
SdC
<a href="http://www.canadacomputes.com/v3/story/1,1017,7912,00.html?tag=81&sb=124"; target="_blank">http://www.canadacomputes.com/v3/story/1,1017,7912,00.html?tag=81&sb=124</a>;
<strong>Ah, it's good to see others take up the cause of sanity (i.e., the G5 ain't coming tomorrow).
I've actually become quite bored with it.
SdC</strong><hr></blockquote>
"Sanity"? There are plenty of hints from various developers (among other rumors) that the G5 is a real possibility (although not nessesarily a probability). It's not insane to think that a G5 may come. Personally I'm getting "Quite bored" hearing you keep on repeating your opinion that they definately won't come. For the record I think that G4's are more likely but I don't rule out the possibility of a G5.
<strong>
"Sanity"? There are plenty of hints from various developers (among other rumors) that the G5 is a real possibility (although not nessesarily a probability). It's not insane to think that a G5 may come. Personally I'm getting "Quite bored" hearing you keep on repeating your opinion that they definately won't come. For the record I think that G4's are more likely but I don't rule out the possibility of a G5.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Show me one. Every single G5 link is based on 2 year old news, or by people who don't know shit from shinola.
SdC
<strong>
Show me one. Every single G5 link is based on 2 year old news, or by people who don't know shit from shinola.
SdC</strong><hr></blockquote>
Interesting isn't it? When did you last hear of a processor that was on the way disappearing from view for two years?
Michael
<a href="http://e-www.motorola.com/collateral/SNDFH1101.pdf"; target="_blank">Motorola PowerPC Microprocessor Family, Today and Tomorrow</a>
Presented at Smart Networks Developer Forum, May 20-23, 2001. They focus a great deal on the e-500 core and the upcoming G5 chips. Yes, they're talking about the embedded chip, but it's silly to assume that they're putting all this effort into it if its going to be an embedded chip and nothing more. It is logical to assume that Apple is insisting they keep the desktop version under wraps. They may not be, but it is reasonable to suggest it.
Another interesting link: <a href="http://www.geek.com/news/geeknews/2001apr/bch20010410005320.htm"; target="_blank">Geek.com News</a> from April 2001. The article itself isn't much, but the reply from "Mot Insider" is:
"MOSR has misinformation... (1:50pm EST Tue Apr 10 2001)
...as usual. The G5 will not start out multicore and MacOS Rumors has the speeds wrong. On a 130nm process with SOI and copper, the 14 stage pipeline G5 will start at 1.6GHz and scale well beyond 2GHz. But before that we will see a 7460 G4 made on a 130nm SOI process, functionally equal to the 7450 but on an improved process. This G4 (codenamed Apollo), will achieve 1.2GHz and scall to most likely 1.7-1.8GHz.
Shortly (a quarter) after the debut of the 7460, you will see the 7500 on the same process in early 2002 with speeds between 1.6GHz and 2.5GHz. In late 2002 you will see the 100nm 75X0 start out at 2.4GHz and scale up to 3.5GHz. Also, MOSR neglected to mention that the 7500 will make extensive use of Rapid IO and have an on die DDR memory controller. The RIO ports will have a fast serial connection to several devices on the motherboard such as PCI-X bridges, peripheral controllers, ethernet and firewire controllers. The RIO bus is a serial 16-bit hub topology but runs at high speed (500-1000MHz). - by Mot insider"
[Note: This past summer Moto announced the renaming of the 7500 series to 8500.]
In light of what we know has transpired in the last 8 mo., he is very accurate on the Apollo information (particularly if they're what's coming next week at 1.2-1.4 GHz). That lends credance to his comments on the G5.
Those of you who claim there have been no reports of the G5 in the last two years ought to do a little nosing around on Motorola's web site and do a web search for "Motorola G5". You'll get thousands of hits. Yes, a lot of them are reports of a report of a report, but there are a few genuine nuggets in there, too. Its reliability is a matter of opinion, but saying it doesn't exist is ludicrous.
[edit: typo]
[ 01-15-2002: Message edited by: TJM ]</p>
There is a difference between admissable evidence and hearsay. The geek.com reply is most definitely hearsay, and the only place I've seen it suggested the G5 might have a 14 stage pipeline.
I don't say any of this is wrong just "not proven" (a verdict available only to Scottish courts). I also will not speculate on when it might appear.
Michael
Pessimists, don't worry, be happy. You'll live longer.
- Mark
<strong>"MOSR has misinformation... (1:50pm EST Tue Apr 10 2001)
...as usual. The G5 will ... <omitted for brevity> </strong><hr></blockquote>
This is at least as plausible as anything else we've heard. Since it is quoted from April 2001 a schedule alteration of +/- 1 quarter could easily be expected -- either way. One way is the usual engineering slippage. The other way is Steve Jobs yelling at them to hurry up. The technical information in the quote looks reasonable as well, nothing outlandish. The only new bit is the 14-stage pipeline. RapidIO is one possibility, but perhaps Apple yanked that out and stuck in HyperTransport because that could help them deliver sooner.
Still no conclusive information either way. The pessimists can continue to be pessimistic, and the optimists can continue to be optimistic. I prefer to be optimistic, and if I'm wrong then I just think about how much money I'm not going to spend on a new Mac for another quarter or two!
<strong>
This is at least as plausible as anything else we've heard.
<SNIP>
Still no conclusive information either way. The pessimists can continue to be pessimistic, and the optimists can continue to be optimistic. I prefer to be optimistic, and if I'm wrong then I just think about how much money I'm not going to spend on a new Mac for another quarter or two!</strong><hr></blockquote>
Yes indeed. And I so resemble that closing sentence.
"MOSR has misinformation... (1:50pm EST Tue Apr 10 2001)
...as usual. The G5 will ... <omitted for brevity> <hr></blockquote>
Is the Apollo the 7500? The article said the 7500 is now the 8500. Could that be the head of all the confusion and the premise behind the assertion "The G5 will be a renamed G4+ Apollo"?
Maybe everyone is right, the Apollo is coming out as the G5!? That's the best of both worlds if indeed it does scale that high and have all those features.
So basically that would mean that all of the speculation here at AI is wrong, but in a good way!
Think Secret just chimed in-
<a href="http://www.thinksecret.com/features/apollog4update.html"; target="_blank">http://www.thinksecret.com/features/apollog4update.html</a>;
Basically, G4 Apollo starting at 1.0ghz and possibly topping out at 1.4ghz like NMR said. New mobo!! Also, could be released next week, or in Feb, or in march. So no one knows when we will get them.
But, maybe the Apollo will be the G5? New mobo, 1.4ghz chip, new case, hell, it sounds like a G5 to me!! <img src="graemlins/smokin.gif" border="0" alt="[Chilling]" />
<strong>
Is the Apollo the 7500? The article said the 7500 is now the 8500. Could that be the head of all the confusion and the premise behind the assertion "The G5 will be a renamed G4+ Apollo"?
Maybe everyone is right, the Apollo is coming out as the G5!? That's the best of both worlds if indeed it does scale that high and have all those features.</strong><hr></blockquote>
I don't think this is the case -- the Apollo is the 7460 and Apple will call it a G4. I don't think they'd want the PR stink that would likely happen if they just rebadged it a G5. The 7500 was renumbered to 8500 when Moto started planning out its "G5" strategy. New core and bus interface.