Really, Frugality, you really have no right talking about real romantic and sexual love when you've never experienced it. Once you feel it, you will know.
I really hope that everyone here can experience peace and love.
Once you've experienced God's love, you will know it. And you will know that it is better than human love -- heterosexual, or (if you unfortunately sink to that level) otherwise.
I assume that's you and your wife in that picture. Would you be O.K. with her having an affair? Would you be O.K. with her leaving you for another man? Would you be O.K. with her leaving you for a woman?
You brought up the Old Testament, and how you perceive God as harsh. There is a beautiful thread that runs through the Old Testament, and that is the picture of us being married to God. As Israel worshipped the false gods of the nations around them, God referred to them as being an adulterous wife, and himself as the faithful husband. You may recall God saying, "I, your God, am a jealous God." That is becuase he loves us. He loves us enough that he doesn't want us to hurt our relationship with sin. You wouldn't want your wife cheating on you and driving a wedge in your relationship. Likewise, God simply wants us to be faithful to him. And he returns the favor by being faithful to us, more than we deserve.
Once you've experienced God's love, you will know it. And you will know that it is better than human love -- heterosexual, or (if you unfortunately sink to that level) otherwise.
I assume that's you and your wife in that picture. Would you be O.K. with her having an affair? Would you be O.K. with her leaving you for another man? Would you be O.K. with her leaving you for a woman?
frugality....ive kept my quiet throughout this thread, but your posts make me very sad. to go thru ur whole life without human companionship must be very....lonely.
truly tho, i do hope that u find someone to share your life with, outside of someone you read about in a book. but then again...u seem completely happy living alone, so odds are thats how you will die.
Honestly,guys, quit beating on Frugality. He is standing up for his position as a Christian, and you guys keep shooting him down for it. Christians like him (or me, for that matter) believe that homosexual marriage is fundamentally wrong. The rest of you don't. End of story.
Honestly,guys, quit beating on Frugality. He is standing up for his position as a Christian, and you guys keep shooting him down for it. Christians like him (or me, for that matter) believe that homosexual marriage is fundamentally wrong. The rest of you don't. End of story.
It's not just that he says homosexual marriage is wrong. He says homosexuality itself is wrong.
To turn your statement around, we could say, "Atheists like Joe (or me, for that matter) believe that Christianity is fundamentally wrong. End of story." Would you leave a statement like that uncontested if you are a Christian?
The irony, of course, is that religion is a choice, but sexual orientation isn't.
And if you think religion isn't a choice, why do you have to get baptized or christened if you're born Christian? On the other hand, you don't have to "join" or "prove" your homosexuality--you're born that way.
It's not just that he says homosexual marriage is wrong. He says homosexuality itself is wrong.
Yes, that is a correct assesment of what I'm saying.
Quote:
Originally Posted by bikertwin
The irony, of course, is that religion is a choice, but sexual orientation isn't.
Some people are attracted to the opposite sex. The choice is whether to act on those urges or not.
Quote:
Originally Posted by bikertwin
And if you think religion isn't a choice, why do you have to get baptized or christened if you're born Christian? On the other hand, you don't have to "join" or "prove" your homosexuality--you're born that way.
Religion is most definitely a choice. We must choose to accept or reject God, who gave us the free will to do so. Baptism is something that is not necessary (consider that the theif hanging on the cross next to Jesus didn't get the chance to be baptized, yet Jesus said, "I tell you the truth, today you will be with me in paradise"), however we are told that we are to be baptized, as an outward expression of our decision.
Everyone has the choice to follow any other religion, but they will all be dead-ends. All religions at their core contradict each other, so they all claim exclusivity (even the inclusivists like Baha'is exclude the exclusivists.) All religions may be false, but no more than one can be true.
Again, you may be born with urges that are unacceptable to act upon. I am a man who has urges to have sex with a woman. Yet since I haven't met the right woman yet, I am still a virgin. You are under the same rules as I am. No sex outside of a manogamous marital relationship with someone of the opposite sex.
frugality....ive kept my quiet throughout this thread, but your posts make me very sad. to go thru ur whole life without human companionship must be very....lonely.
truly tho, i do hope that u find someone to share your life with, outside of someone you read about in a book. but then again...u seem completely happy living alone, so odds are thats how you will die.
The good thing is that God doesn't play by odds, and he doesn't expect us to, either. He expects us to trust him when the odds are stacked against us. The odds of me finding a nice, sweet, cute, Jesus Freak chick are slim if you go by odds. In fact, they're even slimmer since I gave up searching for her and am praying and waiting. I'll come back and re-post on this thread when God brings her into my life.
Once I was praying about this and felt God clearly say, "Are you going to trust Me with her?" This doesn't necessarily mean he has someone for me for sure, but it does seem to imply that there will be a 'her' at some point. So I trust, and leave it up to him.
Yes, that is a correct assesment of what I'm saying.
Some people are attracted to the opposite sex. The choice is whether to act on those urges or not.
Religion is most definitely a choice.
Well, I'm glad I've understood you correctly--and finally we find something to agree on: religion is a choice. And we agree that it is a choice on whether to act on homosexuality or not (just as it's a choice whether to act on heterosexuality or not).
I've chosen to abandon any "Christian" religion--or any other religion--that says that my natural instinct (homosexuality) is wrong.
My boyfriend & I do nothing sexually to each other that the other person doesn't enjoy.
What does this mean for me? It means that I am a very happy guy! I'm dating a wonderful man. We kiss and cuddle and hug; we smile a lot; we have deep conversations & debates about many topics (he's more conservative; I'm more liberal); we spend all our free time together; we have jobs and pay taxes; we visit friends & family; we have picnics in the park; go biking & hiking; educate ourselves at museums & occasional night classes; donate money to good causes; volunteer for good causes.
What does this mean for society?
We are, in short, like any other well-adjusted, healthy (physically & mentally), successful, moral, upstanding, community-minded couple.
It is clear now that frugality has serious mental issues. There is no point trying to have a discussion with him until he gets those issues addressed.
It is interesting that Christians (no, Londor, Christianity is not a "religion") do not dismiss your thoughts with accusations of mental illness, stupidity, or epithets. Whereas you, in an attempt to denigrate the beliefs of another insist that the person who simply believes differently from you must have a mental problem. Even though I disagree with your beliefs, I see not point in insulting you. Can you, in turn, afford the same courtesy to others?
It is interesting that Christians (no, Londor, Christianity is not a "religion") do not dismiss your thoughts with accusations of mental illness, stupidity, or epithets. Whereas you, in an attempt to denigrate the beliefs of another insist that the person who simply believes differently from you must have a mental problem. Even though I disagree with your beliefs, I see not point in insulting you. Can you, in turn, afford the same courtesy to others?
Anyone claiming to have an imaginary friend who presents to him, talks to him and tells him what to do has serious mental issues whether you call that imaginary friend god, Captain Hook or whatever.
And no matter how much makeup you want to put on it, Christianity is a religion.
religion |rɪˈlɪdʒ(ə)n|
noun
the belief in and worship of a superhuman controlling power, esp. a personal God or gods
Anyone claiming to have an imaginary friend who presents to him, talks to him and tells him what to do has serious mental issues whether you call that imaginary friend god, Captain Hook or whatever.
By saying that, you've already ruled out the potential of God's existence even before you begin. To say that you know for sure that God can't talk to us, you would have to be omnipotent.
The argument for homosexuality here seems to have been, "if it feels natural, it is natural." Can we apply the same thing here? If it feels natural to talk to God, that can't be a mental issue. Homosexuality was redefined as normal by the stroke of a pen. We can do the same for God, can't we?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Londor
And no matter how much makeup you want to put on it, Christianity is a religion.
I would agree with that statement as the normal definition of religion. I wonder, though, if Sky King was implying that Christianity is Truth, whereas other 'religions' are false, and I would agree with that. In that case, Christianity isn't religion as such, it's walking the true path, it's a way of being. Sort of in the same way Buddhists refer to enlightenment, a state of being rather than merely a bunch of rules and regulations.
There's a song on Christian radio stations that's about heaven, and it has a line that goes, "There's a place where religion finally dies." It means that when we get to heaven, we'll be seeing God in all his glory, face to face. Whereas now we only hear his voice now and then, see his hand moving in events in our lives, etc., the vagueness will be gone. He will be totally revealed. Religion will be unnecessary, since religion is a framework for belief based partly on evidence and partly on faith. That framework won't be needed when we are in the very presence of God himself. He will be fully evident.
We are, in short, like any other well-adjusted, healthy (physically & mentally), successful, moral, upstanding, community-minded couple.
The bigger question is: What does this mean for God? Society's definition, or your or my own personal definition of 'well-adjusted, healthy, successful, moral, upstanding' doesn't matter.
Quote:
Originally Posted by bikertwin
I've chosen to abandon any "Christian" religion--or any other religion--that says that my natural instinct (homosexuality) is wrong.
Not everything that is an urge is acceptable to God, but he gave you free will, including the option of rejecting him.
By saying that, you've already ruled out the potential of God's existence even before you begin. To say that you know for sure that God can't talk to us, you would have to be omnipotent.
You just keep proving time and time again that among other things your grasp of the language is pretty poor. Omnipotent is not the same as having universal knowledge.
omnipotent |ɒmˈnɪpət(ə)nt|
adjective
(of a deity) having unlimited power
But when you say you are in possession of the "Truth" it must be because you have universal knowledge and that is obviously not the case.
Anyway I, unlike you, am open to any possibility. I approach everything with an open mind so come up with the goods and show the world substantial evidence that demonstrates the existence of a superhuman being who is the creator and ruler of the universe and source of all moral authority and then not only I but everyone will acknowledge it. Until that moment arrives what you are saying has to be considered as nothing more than a fairy tale, a product of your and other people's imagination.
Whilst having imaginary friends per se is not classified as having a mental disorder when you fail to understand that they are not real and interfere with your everyday life they become a problem that should be looked at by a mental health professional.
Quote:
The argument for homosexuality here seems to have been, "if it feels natural, it is natural." Can we apply the same thing here? If it feels natural to talk to God, that can't be a mental issue. Homosexuality was redefined as normal by the stroke of a pen. We can do the same for God, can't we?
You have to be pretty thick to use the same argument that was used by those who defend what you consider fundamentally wrong to support your case because by doing that you are in fact legitimising what you thought was wrong which is an utter contradiction on your part.
Earlier you made a revealing statement. That your personal circumstances were improved when you firmly adopted this christian belief system. It gave you comfort and a sense of completeness.
That, right there, is your reason.
Religiosity is commonplace. All over the world, and all through time people have believed in supernatural companions of one sort or another. It's almost universal.
Weather and nature spirits explained the animated and troublesome aspects of nature.
Inventive human minds evolved these ideas into increasingly more sophisticated representations.
The Romans and Greeks had a sort of soap opera of the skies. With a collection of popular characters. The Norse and Indian pantheons are similar.
And the Abrahamic religions refined this even more with fewer gods.
Christians say they are down to just the one. ( although many also believe in a second minor deity called the "devil". Who appears to be possess many godlike attributes.)
Truth is like mathematics. The square root of 25 is the same all over the world. It's the same in the past and in the future.
Religion is more like popular drinks. Here it's tea. There it's beer. And every liquid is a different strength served in a different container.
So where's the universal truth?
Religiosity driven by human need. All humans share ....
A Fear of death.
B Anger at injustice.
C Confusion at the rather brutal character of Nature and the Universe.
D Fear of loneliness.
These are natural human reactions to their existence. And because we have evolved a potent imagination, it allows us to invent solutions. We imagine supernatural creatures, who...
A Keep us alive after we die.
B Right all wrongs.
C Have dominion over nature.
D Provide permanent, loving companionship.
Each culture constructs its own solution. There are no universal beliefs, but there are quite universal human frailties providing the fuel.
For you, I am sure, the solution works. It's a highly-sophisticated fantasy. It well-engineered self-deception. Done properly, it makes you happy with your life.
But for me, a lie, however sweet it is, however good it makes you feel, is still a lie. My conscience just won't let me buy into it. My genome didn't make me that way.
Anyone claiming to have an imaginary friend who presents to him, talks to him and tells him what to do has serious mental issues whether you call that imaginary friend god, Captain Hook or whatever.
Look, I take serious offense to the fact that you blow me and everyone else who has a religion as someone with "Seious mental issues." I would like to politely ask you to shut the FUCK up. You have no place to tell me that what I believe is wrong, or that i am just suffering from serious delusions. You seem to be asking Christians to be accepting of homosexuals, yet you can't find it in you to be accepting of Christians. So stop being an asshole about this whole thing. Let me see how clear I can be.
1. Christians (and a few other religions) belive that homosexualtiy/homosexual marraige is wrong.
2. Other people don't.
3. These debates will likely never be solved.
There is no reason that this thread should be this long. I would ask that moderators close this thread.
Look, I take serious offense to the fact that you blow me and everyone else who has a religion as someone with "Seious mental issues." I would like to politely ask you to shut the FUCK up. You have no place to tell me that what I believe is wrong, or that i am just suffering from serious delusions. You seem to be asking Christians to be accepting of homosexuals, yet you can't find it in you to be accepting of Christians. So stop being an asshole about this whole thing. Let me see how clear I can be.
1. Christians (and a few other religions) belive that homosexualtiy/homosexual marraige is wrong.
2. Other people don't.
3. These debates will likely never be solved.
There is no reason that this thread should be this long. I would ask that moderators close this thread.
Um... you didn't read what he said. By no means did he call "everyone who has a religion" anything. Just the ones who claim that God communicates directly to them using more than just their imagination.
You have no place to tell me that what I believe is wrong, or that i am just suffering from serious delusions. You seem to be asking Christians to be accepting of homosexuals, yet you can't find it in you to be accepting of Christians. So stop being an asshole about this whole thing. Let me see how clear I can be.
1. Christians (and a few other religions) belive that homosexualtiy/homosexual marraige is wrong.
So according to you I have no place to tell you what you believe is wrong (something I have never done) but you can tell people how they have to live their lives, how wrong and disgusting their behaviour is and how they are gonna burn in hell for their sins. Give me a break.
If you choose to believe then that is up to you and I respect your beliefs but religion is a personal thing so keep it to yourself and shut the fuck up.
And read the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders (4th Edition Text Revision) and you will find out that as I said anyone claiming to have an imaginary friend who presents to him/her, talks to him/her and tells him/her what to do is considered to have serious mental issues.
So according to you I have no place to tell you what you believe is wrong (something I have never done) but you can tell people how they have to live their lives, how wrong and disgusting their behaviour is and how they are gonna burn in hell for their sins. Give me a break.
EDIT: Heh, well I guess I did say that, but I meant more of:
No, I said you have no place to say that me or anyone else who believe in a religion is mentally ill. And you did say that.
Now, when have I ever said that anyone will burn in hell? All I said was that I believe that that homosexual marriage is wrong.
Many denominations of Christianity agree that sexual orientation is not a choice. However, I, as well as several denominations of Christianity believe that acting on it is wrong, because, according to Christians, marriage is defined as a union between a man and a woman, and Christians believe that having sexual intercourse before marriage is wrong.
Quote:
And read the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders (4th Edition Text Revision) and you will find out that as I said anyone claiming to have an imaginary friend who presents to him/her, talks to him/her and tells him/her what to do is considered to have serious mental issues.
Ok, Christians do not have an "imagninary friend" in their head that speaks to them. God guides our actions indirectly, and communicates indirectly. When someone says that they "talked to God" it is more of a metaphore for a deeper experience then a simple conversation.
If you are going to put down any group for any reason, first know what you are talking about.
Um... you didn't read what he said. By no means did he call "everyone who has a religion" anything. Just the ones who claim that God communicates directly to them using more than just their imagination.
Yes, I did read what he said. In prayer or meditation, which is something that any religion with a deity has, the individual "talks to God."
Comments
Really, Frugality, you really have no right talking about real romantic and sexual love when you've never experienced it. Once you feel it, you will know.
I really hope that everyone here can experience peace and love.
Once you've experienced God's love, you will know it. And you will know that it is better than human love -- heterosexual, or (if you unfortunately sink to that level) otherwise.
I assume that's you and your wife in that picture. Would you be O.K. with her having an affair? Would you be O.K. with her leaving you for another man? Would you be O.K. with her leaving you for a woman?
You brought up the Old Testament, and how you perceive God as harsh. There is a beautiful thread that runs through the Old Testament, and that is the picture of us being married to God. As Israel worshipped the false gods of the nations around them, God referred to them as being an adulterous wife, and himself as the faithful husband. You may recall God saying, "I, your God, am a jealous God." That is becuase he loves us. He loves us enough that he doesn't want us to hurt our relationship with sin. You wouldn't want your wife cheating on you and driving a wedge in your relationship. Likewise, God simply wants us to be faithful to him. And he returns the favor by being faithful to us, more than we deserve.
Once you've experienced God's love, you will know it. And you will know that it is better than human love -- heterosexual, or (if you unfortunately sink to that level) otherwise.
I assume that's you and your wife in that picture. Would you be O.K. with her having an affair? Would you be O.K. with her leaving you for another man? Would you be O.K. with her leaving you for a woman?
frugality....ive kept my quiet throughout this thread, but your posts make me very sad. to go thru ur whole life without human companionship must be very....lonely.
truly tho, i do hope that u find someone to share your life with, outside of someone you read about in a book. but then again...u seem completely happy living alone, so odds are thats how you will die.
Honestly,guys, quit beating on Frugality. He is standing up for his position as a Christian, and you guys keep shooting him down for it. Christians like him (or me, for that matter) believe that homosexual marriage is fundamentally wrong. The rest of you don't. End of story.
It's not just that he says homosexual marriage is wrong. He says homosexuality itself is wrong.
To turn your statement around, we could say, "Atheists like Joe (or me, for that matter) believe that Christianity is fundamentally wrong. End of story." Would you leave a statement like that uncontested if you are a Christian?
The irony, of course, is that religion is a choice, but sexual orientation isn't.
And if you think religion isn't a choice, why do you have to get baptized or christened if you're born Christian? On the other hand, you don't have to "join" or "prove" your homosexuality--you're born that way.
It's not just that he says homosexual marriage is wrong. He says homosexuality itself is wrong.
Yes, that is a correct assesment of what I'm saying.
The irony, of course, is that religion is a choice, but sexual orientation isn't.
Some people are attracted to the opposite sex. The choice is whether to act on those urges or not.
And if you think religion isn't a choice, why do you have to get baptized or christened if you're born Christian? On the other hand, you don't have to "join" or "prove" your homosexuality--you're born that way.
Religion is most definitely a choice. We must choose to accept or reject God, who gave us the free will to do so. Baptism is something that is not necessary (consider that the theif hanging on the cross next to Jesus didn't get the chance to be baptized, yet Jesus said, "I tell you the truth, today you will be with me in paradise"), however we are told that we are to be baptized, as an outward expression of our decision.
Everyone has the choice to follow any other religion, but they will all be dead-ends. All religions at their core contradict each other, so they all claim exclusivity (even the inclusivists like Baha'is exclude the exclusivists.) All religions may be false, but no more than one can be true.
Again, you may be born with urges that are unacceptable to act upon. I am a man who has urges to have sex with a woman. Yet since I haven't met the right woman yet, I am still a virgin. You are under the same rules as I am. No sex outside of a manogamous marital relationship with someone of the opposite sex.
frugality....ive kept my quiet throughout this thread, but your posts make me very sad. to go thru ur whole life without human companionship must be very....lonely.
truly tho, i do hope that u find someone to share your life with, outside of someone you read about in a book. but then again...u seem completely happy living alone, so odds are thats how you will die.
The good thing is that God doesn't play by odds, and he doesn't expect us to, either.
Once I was praying about this and felt God clearly say, "Are you going to trust Me with her?" This doesn't necessarily mean he has someone for me for sure, but it does seem to imply that there will be a 'her' at some point. So I trust, and leave it up to him.
Yes, that is a correct assesment of what I'm saying.
Some people are attracted to the opposite sex. The choice is whether to act on those urges or not.
Religion is most definitely a choice.
Well, I'm glad I've understood you correctly--and finally we find something to agree on: religion is a choice. And we agree that it is a choice on whether to act on homosexuality or not (just as it's a choice whether to act on heterosexuality or not).
I've chosen to abandon any "Christian" religion--or any other religion--that says that my natural instinct (homosexuality) is wrong.
My boyfriend & I do nothing sexually to each other that the other person doesn't enjoy.
What does this mean for me? It means that I am a very happy guy! I'm dating a wonderful man. We kiss and cuddle and hug; we smile a lot; we have deep conversations & debates about many topics (he's more conservative; I'm more liberal); we spend all our free time together; we have jobs and pay taxes; we visit friends & family; we have picnics in the park; go biking & hiking; educate ourselves at museums & occasional night classes; donate money to good causes; volunteer for good causes.
What does this mean for society?
We are, in short, like any other well-adjusted, healthy (physically & mentally), successful, moral, upstanding, community-minded couple.
It is clear now that frugality has serious mental issues. There is no point trying to have a discussion with him until he gets those issues addressed.
It is interesting that Christians (no, Londor, Christianity is not a "religion") do not dismiss your thoughts with accusations of mental illness, stupidity, or epithets. Whereas you, in an attempt to denigrate the beliefs of another insist that the person who simply believes differently from you must have a mental problem. Even though I disagree with your beliefs, I see not point in insulting you. Can you, in turn, afford the same courtesy to others?
It is interesting that Christians (no, Londor, Christianity is not a "religion") do not dismiss your thoughts with accusations of mental illness, stupidity, or epithets. Whereas you, in an attempt to denigrate the beliefs of another insist that the person who simply believes differently from you must have a mental problem. Even though I disagree with your beliefs, I see not point in insulting you. Can you, in turn, afford the same courtesy to others?
Anyone claiming to have an imaginary friend who presents to him, talks to him and tells him what to do has serious mental issues whether you call that imaginary friend god, Captain Hook or whatever.
And no matter how much makeup you want to put on it, Christianity is a religion.
religion |rɪˈlɪdʒ(ə)n|
noun
the belief in and worship of a superhuman controlling power, esp. a personal God or gods
Anyone claiming to have an imaginary friend who presents to him, talks to him and tells him what to do has serious mental issues whether you call that imaginary friend god, Captain Hook or whatever.
By saying that, you've already ruled out the potential of God's existence even before you begin. To say that you know for sure that God can't talk to us, you would have to be omnipotent.
The argument for homosexuality here seems to have been, "if it feels natural, it is natural." Can we apply the same thing here? If it feels natural to talk to God, that can't be a mental issue. Homosexuality was redefined as normal by the stroke of a pen. We can do the same for God, can't we?
And no matter how much makeup you want to put on it, Christianity is a religion.
I would agree with that statement as the normal definition of religion. I wonder, though, if Sky King was implying that Christianity is Truth, whereas other 'religions' are false, and I would agree with that. In that case, Christianity isn't religion as such, it's walking the true path, it's a way of being. Sort of in the same way Buddhists refer to enlightenment, a state of being rather than merely a bunch of rules and regulations.
There's a song on Christian radio stations that's about heaven, and it has a line that goes, "There's a place where religion finally dies." It means that when we get to heaven, we'll be seeing God in all his glory, face to face. Whereas now we only hear his voice now and then, see his hand moving in events in our lives, etc., the vagueness will be gone. He will be totally revealed. Religion will be unnecessary, since religion is a framework for belief based partly on evidence and partly on faith. That framework won't be needed when we are in the very presence of God himself. He will be fully evident.
What does this mean for society?
We are, in short, like any other well-adjusted, healthy (physically & mentally), successful, moral, upstanding, community-minded couple.
The bigger question is: What does this mean for God? Society's definition, or your or my own personal definition of 'well-adjusted, healthy, successful, moral, upstanding' doesn't matter.
I've chosen to abandon any "Christian" religion--or any other religion--that says that my natural instinct (homosexuality) is wrong.
Not everything that is an urge is acceptable to God, but he gave you free will, including the option of rejecting him.
By saying that, you've already ruled out the potential of God's existence even before you begin. To say that you know for sure that God can't talk to us, you would have to be omnipotent.
You just keep proving time and time again that among other things your grasp of the language is pretty poor. Omnipotent is not the same as having universal knowledge.
omnipotent |ɒmˈnɪpət(ə)nt|
adjective
(of a deity) having unlimited power
But when you say you are in possession of the "Truth" it must be because you have universal knowledge and that is obviously not the case.
Anyway I, unlike you, am open to any possibility. I approach everything with an open mind so come up with the goods and show the world substantial evidence that demonstrates the existence of a superhuman being who is the creator and ruler of the universe and source of all moral authority and then not only I but everyone will acknowledge it. Until that moment arrives what you are saying has to be considered as nothing more than a fairy tale, a product of your and other people's imagination.
Whilst having imaginary friends per se is not classified as having a mental disorder when you fail to understand that they are not real and interfere with your everyday life they become a problem that should be looked at by a mental health professional.
The argument for homosexuality here seems to have been, "if it feels natural, it is natural." Can we apply the same thing here? If it feels natural to talk to God, that can't be a mental issue. Homosexuality was redefined as normal by the stroke of a pen. We can do the same for God, can't we?
You have to be pretty thick to use the same argument that was used by those who defend what you consider fundamentally wrong to support your case because by doing that you are in fact legitimising what you thought was wrong which is an utter contradiction on your part.
Earlier you made a revealing statement. That your personal circumstances were improved when you firmly adopted this christian belief system. It gave you comfort and a sense of completeness.
That, right there, is your reason.
Religiosity is commonplace. All over the world, and all through time people have believed in supernatural companions of one sort or another. It's almost universal.
Weather and nature spirits explained the animated and troublesome aspects of nature.
Inventive human minds evolved these ideas into increasingly more sophisticated representations.
The Romans and Greeks had a sort of soap opera of the skies. With a collection of popular characters. The Norse and Indian pantheons are similar.
And the Abrahamic religions refined this even more with fewer gods.
Christians say they are down to just the one. ( although many also believe in a second minor deity called the "devil". Who appears to be possess many godlike attributes.)
Truth is like mathematics. The square root of 25 is the same all over the world. It's the same in the past and in the future.
Religion is more like popular drinks. Here it's tea. There it's beer. And every liquid is a different strength served in a different container.
So where's the universal truth?
Religiosity driven by human need. All humans share ....
A Fear of death.
B Anger at injustice.
C Confusion at the rather brutal character of Nature and the Universe.
D Fear of loneliness.
These are natural human reactions to their existence. And because we have evolved a potent imagination, it allows us to invent solutions. We imagine supernatural creatures, who...
A Keep us alive after we die.
B Right all wrongs.
C Have dominion over nature.
D Provide permanent, loving companionship.
Each culture constructs its own solution. There are no universal beliefs, but there are quite universal human frailties providing the fuel.
For you, I am sure, the solution works. It's a highly-sophisticated fantasy. It well-engineered self-deception. Done properly, it makes you happy with your life.
But for me, a lie, however sweet it is, however good it makes you feel, is still a lie. My conscience just won't let me buy into it. My genome didn't make me that way.
C.
Anyone claiming to have an imaginary friend who presents to him, talks to him and tells him what to do has serious mental issues whether you call that imaginary friend god, Captain Hook or whatever.
Look, I take serious offense to the fact that you blow me and everyone else who has a religion as someone with "Seious mental issues." I would like to politely ask you to shut the FUCK up. You have no place to tell me that what I believe is wrong, or that i am just suffering from serious delusions. You seem to be asking Christians to be accepting of homosexuals, yet you can't find it in you to be accepting of Christians. So stop being an asshole about this whole thing. Let me see how clear I can be.
1. Christians (and a few other religions) belive that homosexualtiy/homosexual marraige is wrong.
2. Other people don't.
3. These debates will likely never be solved.
There is no reason that this thread should be this long. I would ask that moderators close this thread.
1. Christians (and a few other religions) belive that homosexualtiy/homosexual marraige is wrong.
There are a number of segments of Christianity and Christians that don't share that belief.
Look, I take serious offense to the fact that you blow me and everyone else who has a religion as someone with "Seious mental issues." I would like to politely ask you to shut the FUCK up. You have no place to tell me that what I believe is wrong, or that i am just suffering from serious delusions. You seem to be asking Christians to be accepting of homosexuals, yet you can't find it in you to be accepting of Christians. So stop being an asshole about this whole thing. Let me see how clear I can be.
1. Christians (and a few other religions) belive that homosexualtiy/homosexual marraige is wrong.
2. Other people don't.
3. These debates will likely never be solved.
There is no reason that this thread should be this long. I would ask that moderators close this thread.
Um... you didn't read what he said. By no means did he call "everyone who has a religion" anything. Just the ones who claim that God communicates directly to them using more than just their imagination.
You have no place to tell me that what I believe is wrong, or that i am just suffering from serious delusions. You seem to be asking Christians to be accepting of homosexuals, yet you can't find it in you to be accepting of Christians. So stop being an asshole about this whole thing. Let me see how clear I can be.
1. Christians (and a few other religions) belive that homosexualtiy/homosexual marraige is wrong.
So according to you I have no place to tell you what you believe is wrong (something I have never done) but you can tell people how they have to live their lives, how wrong and disgusting their behaviour is and how they are gonna burn in hell for their sins. Give me a break.
If you choose to believe then that is up to you and I respect your beliefs but religion is a personal thing so keep it to yourself and shut the fuck up.
And read the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders (4th Edition Text Revision) and you will find out that as I said anyone claiming to have an imaginary friend who presents to him/her, talks to him/her and tells him/her what to do is considered to have serious mental issues.
So according to you I have no place to tell you what you believe is wrong (something I have never done) but you can tell people how they have to live their lives, how wrong and disgusting their behaviour is and how they are gonna burn in hell for their sins. Give me a break.
EDIT: Heh, well I guess I did say that, but I meant more of:
No, I said you have no place to say that me or anyone else who believe in a religion is mentally ill. And you did say that.
Now, when have I ever said that anyone will burn in hell? All I said was that I believe that that homosexual marriage is wrong.
Many denominations of Christianity agree that sexual orientation is not a choice. However, I, as well as several denominations of Christianity believe that acting on it is wrong, because, according to Christians, marriage is defined as a union between a man and a woman, and Christians believe that having sexual intercourse before marriage is wrong.
And read the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders (4th Edition Text Revision) and you will find out that as I said anyone claiming to have an imaginary friend who presents to him/her, talks to him/her and tells him/her what to do is considered to have serious mental issues.
Ok, Christians do not have an "imagninary friend" in their head that speaks to them. God guides our actions indirectly, and communicates indirectly. When someone says that they "talked to God" it is more of a metaphore for a deeper experience then a simple conversation.
If you are going to put down any group for any reason, first know what you are talking about.
Um... you didn't read what he said. By no means did he call "everyone who has a religion" anything. Just the ones who claim that God communicates directly to them using more than just their imagination.
Yes, I did read what he said. In prayer or meditation, which is something that any religion with a deity has, the individual "talks to God."