Montevina Delayed -- No MBP at WWDC?

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in Future Apple Hardware edited January 2014
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Comments

  • Reply 1 of 73
    SpamSandwichSpamSandwich Posts: 33,408member
    I thought it was going to be nuthin' but iPhone anyway...
  • Reply 2 of 73
    flounderflounder Posts: 2,674member
    People seem to forget that unless it's a major refresh, apple often forgoes updates at MWSF / WWDC.



    This of course, then leads to bitching about "where are the updates"



    This is then followed by the updates 1-2 months later, followed inevitably by the "Apple screwed me over" bitching.
  • Reply 3 of 73
    techgirltechgirl Posts: 21member
    NOOOOOOO!!!! Ah well. I guess that puts the nail in the coffin of my waiting. If I waited until August, I would then say heck, might as well wait for Nehelem. And I do NOT want to wait six months from now. On the brink of ordering a refurb Penryn MBP. I'll max out the ram myself and be happy. It's not like it will be the last computer I'll ever get, and it is a sweet machine.
  • Reply 4 of 73
    apple does not need to use the on board video they can use a low end real video chip in the lower end systems or use better ATI or NVIDIA on board video.
  • Reply 5 of 73
    tailpipetailpipe Posts: 345member
    This news is really going to mess with Apple's Q3 performance.



    Seems like Intel is limited more by Murphy's Law than by Moore's Law.
  • Reply 6 of 73
    techgirltechgirl Posts: 21member
    Does it always take apple a month or more to implement and release new chips? In other words, is it pretty for-sure that it won't be until August that a montevina MB and MBP will see the light of day?
  • Reply 7 of 73
    mjteixmjteix Posts: 563member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Joe_the_dragon View Post


    apple does not need to use the on board video they can use a low end real video chip in the lower end systems or use better ATI or NVIDIA on board video.



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Tailpipe View Post


    This news is really going to mess with Apple's Q3 performance.



    Seems like Intel is limited more by Murphy's Law than by Moore's Law.



    On circumstances like these, it makes me wonder if Apple shouldn't diversify a little more the cpous/chipsets it uses.



    All Macs expect the Mac Pro are using the same kind of cpus/chipsets, it can be good for the economy of scale, but one "mistake" and 90% of the computer revenue could be temporarly hurt.



    Maybe Apple should at least have another line of computers using different (desktop?) cpus/chipsets.



    The dedicated GPU could add a little to the solution (since this time one of the culprit seems to be the integrated GPU), but it still uses the same southbridge.



    Nehalem will make things worse since the "chipset" will be reduced to only one chip and (as far as I know) it will be the same for many platforms.



    Anyway, it seems to me that Intel has move very quickly to the 45nm process, maybe too quickly as some problems have been reported with early desktop cpus/chipsets and now with mobile cpus/chipsets...



    I'm still confident, but it s*cks anyway.



    TechGirl:

    It really depends on how many working cpus/chipsets Apple can get from Intel and when. Could be a month after the official launch or it could be sooner, it also depends on their agreement with Intel for those particular cpus/chipsets and how Intel will handle the shipping (to who first and how many). For example, Apple wasn't the first to release penryn-based computers but they had access to montevina-like cpus/chipsets for the iMac, they also seem to have 1st dibs on Xeons for the Mac Pro. So anything is yet possible.
  • Reply 8 of 73
    futurepastnowfuturepastnow Posts: 1,772member
    I think it's amusing how you were all taking it for granted that Apple would offer machines with Montevina right away, anyway.



    Who knows. Buy what you need, when you need it.
  • Reply 9 of 73
    vineavinea Posts: 5,585member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by TechGirl View Post


    Does it always take apple a month or more to implement and release new chips? In other words, is it pretty for-sure that it won't be until August that a montevina MB and MBP will see the light of day?



    It also depends on Intel's yields. In the "bad old days" Intel would soft launch a P4 rev with fanfare but very limited qty until much later. I guess arguably Intel soft launched tigerton to rain on the barcelona parade but supply followed fairly quickly.
  • Reply 10 of 73
    techgirltechgirl Posts: 21member
    I did it. I bought a refurb penryn. Can't wait to get it!
  • Reply 11 of 73
    nvidia2008nvidia2008 Posts: 9,262member
    My feeling at this stage is that WWDC is going to be so overwhelmed by iPhone 3G I don't think MBP will be announced *at the same time*. That said, I think June and July *will* see the redesigned (more like MacBook Air stylishness) MBP, not later than late late July...



    If Montevina is still facing f* ups then they're ready to go with Penryn, and then bump it later.



    Hard to predict through the haze of iPhone 3G MADNESS. OH THE MADNESS.
  • Reply 12 of 73
    nvidia2008nvidia2008 Posts: 9,262member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by TechGirl View Post


    I did it. I bought a refurb penryn. Can't wait to get it!



    It's frickin fast. Upgrade (if you haven't) to a 7200rpm drive and 4GB and you'll be pretty blown away. Luckily the Penryns reduce the burning of your lap.
  • Reply 13 of 73
    hirohiro Posts: 2,663member
    Montevina is a Centrino chipset. That means low end like MacBooks. Apple wouldn't be using these for MacBook Pros at all. Not to mention the likelihood of announcing MBs at WWDC is pretty damn slim anyway. Calm down people.
  • Reply 14 of 73
    mdriftmeyermdriftmeyer Posts: 7,501member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Flounder View Post


    People seem to forget that unless it's a major refresh, apple often forgoes updates at MWSF / WWDC.



    This of course, then leads to bitching about "where are the updates"



    This is then followed by the updates 1-2 months later, followed inevitably by the "Apple screwed me over" bitching.



    Imagine dating these people. You'd wanna shoot yourself.
  • Reply 15 of 73
    techgirltechgirl Posts: 21member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Hiro View Post


    Montevina is a Centrino chipset. That means low end like MacBooks. Apple wouldn't be using these for MacBook Pros at all. Not to mention the likelihood of announcing MBs at WWDC is pretty damn slim anyway. Calm down people.





    From all that I've read, this is incorrect. Centrino is low end and not used in MBPs? I don't think so. Not unless Santa Rosa all of a sudden has never been used in the Pros...



    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Centrin...orm_.282008.29



    http://www.anandtech.com/mac/showdoc.aspx?i=3246&p=2



    http://www.appletell.com/apple/comme...-pros-in-june/



    Research: it's a beautiful thing
  • Reply 16 of 73
    futurepastnowfuturepastnow Posts: 1,772member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Hiro View Post


    Montevina is a Centrino chipset. That means low end like MacBooks. Apple wouldn't be using these for MacBook Pros at all. Not to mention the likelihood of announcing MBs at WWDC is pretty damn slim anyway. Calm down people.



    Centrino is not low-end. Intel considers it to be high-end, since it gives them a complete platform that they can support, and manufacturers can put the sticker on their laptops and use it as a selling point. Originally, the marketing was business-oriented if I recall correctly.



    Actually, Apple has never used Centrino on any laptop (and thus has not used Napa or Santa Rosa), since to carry that name the platform must include Intel's wireless chip. Apple sources their own wi-fi chips from Atheros and Broadcom. Presumably, Apple will continue to do this, and thus won't technically use Montevina or Centrino 2 at all.



    But Apple does use the platfoms' northbridge chips, currently GM965 on the Macbook and PM965 on the MBP. The only difference there being the presence or absence of integrated graphics. Sooner or later, Apple will transition the Macbook and MBP to GM45 and PM45, respectively, but one is not "low end" compared to the other.
  • Reply 17 of 73
    fishyesquefishyesque Posts: 725member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Flounder View Post


    People seem to forget that unless it's a major refresh, apple often forgoes updates at MWSF / WWDC.



    This of course, then leads to bitching about "where are the updates"



    This is then followed by the updates 1-2 months later, followed inevitably by the "Apple screwed me over" bitching.



    Spot on.
  • Reply 18 of 73
    mr. hmr. h Posts: 4,797member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by FuturePastNow View Post


    Centrino is not low-end. Intel considers it to be high-end, since it gives them a complete platform that they can support, and manufacturers can put the sticker on their laptops and use it as a selling point. Originally, the marketing was business-oriented if I recall correctly.



    Actually, Apple has never used Centrino on any laptop (and thus has not used Napa or Santa Rosa), since to carry that name the platform must include Intel's wireless chip. Apple sources their own wi-fi chips from Atheros and Broadcom. Presumably, Apple will continue to do this, and thus won't technically use Montevina or Centrino 2 at all.



    But Apple does use the platfoms' northbridge chips, currently GM965 on the Macbook and PM965 on the MBP. The only difference there being the presence or absence of integrated graphics. Sooner or later, Apple will transition the Macbook and MBP to GM45 and PM45, respectively, but one is not "low end" compared to the other.



    Hurrah! Someone who knows what they're talking about. I wish the tech sites like Gizmodo and AppleInsider would get with the program already! Apple don't use Centrino; they never have and they probably never will.
  • Reply 19 of 73
    tailpipetailpipe Posts: 345member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by FuturePastNow View Post


    Centrino is not low-end. Intel considers it to be high-end, since it gives them a complete platform that they can support, and manufacturers can put the sticker on their laptops and use it as a selling point. Originally, the marketing was business-oriented if I recall correctly.



    Actually, Apple has never used Centrino on any laptop (and thus has not used Napa or Santa Rosa), since to carry that name the platform must include Intel's wireless chip. Apple sources their own wi-fi chips from Atheros and Broadcom. Presumably, Apple will continue to do this, and thus won't technically use Montevina or Centrino 2 at all.



    But Apple does use the platfoms' northbridge chips, currently GM965 on the Macbook and PM965 on the MBP. The only difference there being the presence or absence of integrated graphics. Sooner or later, Apple will transition the Macbook and MBP to GM45 and PM45, respectively, but one is not "low end" compared to the other.



    This is absolutely right. Apple uses the core Centrino platform plus a number of its own components including the GPU and wireless chip. What is not clear is whether Apple had planned to transition to Intel's own wi-fi chips or what the exact problem with Montevina / Centrino 2 is causing the delay.



    Piecing together various bits of intel about the likely configuration of the new MBP, I am pretty certain that it will feature, among other processors options, Intel's T9600 Penryn chip running at 2.8 Mhz on the new Montevina board but with Atheros/ Broadcom wi-fi chips and a suitable Nvidia / ATI GPU. This essentially gives Apple a custom chipset that reduces its dependency on Intel. I suspect Apple has been working on this for some time and so, actually, I do expect the new MBP to arrive in time for WWDC. So, everyone, take a deep breath and relax.



    Add 4 Gb of RAM and 256 Gb SSDs as BTOs, and you have the recipe for one neat machine. My understanding is that the basic board unit design enables Apple to design a smaller form factor. I expect a thickness of about 20 mm-22mm versus current 25mm. Not much thinner, but it will provide a worthwhile reduction in weight.



    Overall benefits are a reduced power consumption for longer battery life, slightly faster processing speeds, (helped noticeably by 4 GBs of RAM), better video streaming capabilities for all you budding editors out there, thinner/ lighter enclosure in a machine that runs less hot than existing MBPs. A new tapered enclosure design, new keyboard and gesture trackpad will all enhance the overall package. It won't eat the MBA's lunch, but will be a pleasantly streamlined version of existing MBP. As I've said before, think evolution, not revolution.



    In summary, therefore I believe that the new MBP is STILL ON TRACK FOR A WWDC RELEASE unless there is a fundamental problem with the primary Centrino 2 board, which seems not to be the case. (The culprit is intel's own GPU chip which I imagine is causing much derision at Nvidia.) Assuming that the basic Montevina board is on track, Apple will have already successfully integrated the other components giving it the jump on regular Centrino 2 customers.



    What the delay does mean however is that new MacBooks are unlikely to arrive before August and probably in September.
  • Reply 20 of 73
    mjteixmjteix Posts: 563member
    Not that I want to bring more bad news, but Intel's spokesman Bill Kircos declaration makes me wonder if Apple (or others) will be able to get their hands on any Montevina cpus/chipsets before the official launch, even if the problems are on the Wifi and integrated graphics parts:



    Quote:

    Both of these led us to establishing a launch date for our mobile processors and discrete chipsets of the week of July 14th, and taking a couple of weeks to get the right readiness and volume for the rest of our components -- we're looking at early August for that.



    full article here
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