"Apple offers nearly all its systems with 802.11n-based wireless as standard, preventing any new systems from shipping until Intel's specified August timeframe or later." (Macnn)
and
"Apparently, the Centrino 2 launch will be rolling, with some chipsets hitting in July and others following later. One of the other problems is with FCC certification of the sets with 802.11n, so that wireless N support "may see a slower ramp as Montevina can only be shipped with support 802.11 a/b/g for now." Gizmodo
The Montevenia platform update looks a lot like SR was in relation to the the original merom release in the laptop lineup. A modest and measured improvement but really no reason to delay a purchase IMO.
"Apple offers nearly all its systems with 802.11n-based wireless as standard, preventing any new systems from shipping until Intel's specified August timeframe or later." (Macnn)
and
"Apparently, the Centrino 2 launch will be rolling, with some chipsets hitting in July and others following later. One of the other problems is with FCC certification of the sets with 802.11n, so that wireless N support "may see a slower ramp as Montevina can only be shipped with support 802.11 a/b/g for now." Gizmodo
The Montevenia platform update looks a lot like SR was in relation to the the original merom release in the laptop lineup. A modest and measured improvement but really no reason to delay a purchase IMO.
i really hope to see a release of the new MBP at WWDC, i've been waiting to buy one for about the last month, however, i'd love to get my hands on a new one. i just hope that they wont be delayed into july, due to the fact that i will need it starting in the second week of july. all the speculation flying around is killing me! if the MBP isn't announced/released at WWDC do you guys see a definite date being given for its actual release? i can wait til after WWDC but id love to have it a couple weeks prior to needed it.
It's common knowledge that Apple use Atheros and Broadcom wireless chips. Quite why places like MacNN, Gizmodo and AI can't put 2 and 2 together and realise that if Apple use Atheros chips in Macs, that means they don't use Intel WiFi, is anyone's guess.
"Apple offers nearly all its systems with 802.11n-based wireless as standard, preventing any new systems from shipping until Intel's specified August timeframe or later." (Macnn)
and
"Apparently, the Centrino 2 launch will be rolling, with some chipsets hitting in July and others following later. One of the other problems is with FCC certification of the sets with 802.11n, so that wireless N support "may see a slower ramp as Montevina can only be shipped with support 802.11 a/b/g for now." Gizmodo
Quote:
Originally Posted by FuturePastNow
Apple doesn't use Intel's wireless chips.
This is correct. And the Wi-Fi chips Apple does use are all FCC approved. So, assuming the primary Montevina board is good to go, then we're all set for a new MacBook Pro for WWDC.
In fact, elsewhere there are reports of a container ship loaded to the gunwales with a shipment bound for Apple. Can't just be 3G iPhones.
This is correct. And the Wi-Fi chips Apple does use are all FCC approved. So, assuming the primary Montevina board is good to go, then we're all set for a new MacBook Pro for WWDC.
In fact, elsewhere there are reports of a container ship loaded to the gunwales with a shipment bound for Apple. Can't just be 3G iPhones.
Still, I'd caution anyone from thinking that Intel will release the platform piecemeal. They may not. They haven't even launched the desktop P45/G45 northbridges yet, and mobile variants usually come later. Reportedly, they're having trouble with the integrated graphics component, too, not just the wi-fi.
From all that I've read, this is incorrect. Centrino is low end and not used in MBPs? I don't think so. Not unless Santa Rosa all of a sudden has never been used in the Pros...
I suggest you go to some real technical documents and not make the basic mistake of the popular press and so badly over-simplify that the basic technical facts are wrong. All Apples motherboards are custom affairs, designed in an Intel Facility with Apple engineers on the team. Apple does not use the Intel standard distributions. Every site that says the MBP is a "Santa Rosa" platform is incorrect. Several of the components are common with "Santa Rosa", but it is not "Santa Rosa".
It's just so damn easy for journalists to ignore that little subtle difference and take the easy way out in their story so everyone can feel all warm and fuzzy inside equating Apple hardware to Intel press releases and roadmaps. But I have yet to see an Apple release or technical document saying "Santa Rosa", even though carelessly cited as the case nearly everywhere else. That is the power of the partially informed press.
I suggest you go to some real technical documents and not make the basic mistake of the popular press and so badly over-simplify that the basic technical facts are wrong. All Apples motherboards are custom affairs, designed in an Intel Facility with Apple engineers on the team. Apple does not use the Intel standard distributions. Every site that says the MBP is a "Santa Rosa" platform is incorrect. Several of the components are common with "Santa Rosa", but it is not "Santa Rosa".
It's just so damn easy for journalists to ignore that little subtle difference and take the easy way out in their story so everyone can feel all warm and fuzzy inside equating Apple hardware to Intel press releases and roadmaps. But I have yet to see an Apple release or technical document saying "Santa Rosa", even though carelessly cited as the case nearly everywhere else. That is the power of the partially informed press.
Very true. It is very grating when all the sites use "Santa Rosa" and other codenames for various versions of the Centrino platform. It's especially annoying given that there are also codenames for the chipsets (northbridge and southbridge) that Apple actually uses.
For example, Apple laptops referred to as "Napa" are actually "Calistoga"
Apple laptops referred to as "Santa Rosa" are actually "Crestline"
and Apple laptops referred to as "Montevina" will actually be "Cantiga".
The thing is, because none of the Apple press use those names, it's pointless as an individual trying to use them; no-one will know what the hell you're on about.
Having said all of that, I don't think that Apple not using Centrino makes Centrino a low-end platform. Certainly the Centrino platform has always incorporated Intel's highest-performance CPUs and mobile motherboard chipsets.
Whatever way you name it, it seems that all the components of "Centrino 2" have been delayed.
Below is a quote from Ars technica:
Quote:
An Intel spokesperson told Ars that the delay was essentially due to "paperwork" surrounding the wireless antennas used in the chipset. "There are no technical problems with the platform," the spokesperson said.
On July 14, the first PM chipsets (which use discrete graphics processors) will appear, along with Core 2 Duo and Core 2 Extreme Mobile CPUs. GM chipsets (integrated graphics) won't hit the market until August, as the spokesperson said Intel needs to rescreen all of the Montevina integrated graphics chipsets.
Montevina is the successor to Intel's current Santa Rosa platform, and will come in two flavors: Shirley Peak and Echo Peak. Like Santa Rosa, Shirley Peak will use a 45nm Penryn CPU and will also include full support for 802.11n (Draft 2.0). Echo Peak will build on Shirley Peak, incorporating full support for WiMAX (802.16e-2005), which Intel says will be capable of speeds of up to 10Mbps down and 4Mbps up, into the chipset.
Intel has yet to announce a shipping date for Echo Peak,
For me that means that Apple computers are also affected by these delays (unless Apple didn't planned to release updated notebooks this summer, which I doubt).
IMO, the MBP will get updated late July and the MacBook mid-August. The iMac can wait a bit longer, and the fate of the Mac mini is yet unknown.
As far as I know, the 1st mobile quad and the small package parts are still expected for September.
You just mentioned that all the "Centrino 2" components have been delayed so do you think that Montevina's delay will cause a ripple effect on the future Intel releases (i.e. Nahalem platform) and the adoption of those chips by other computer manufacturers?
Based on past experience, I had originally expected Apple to announce the new MBP at WWDC on 9th June, but didn't expect it to go on sale before 30th June.
I still think that Apple will announce a revised MBP at WWDC (and quite possibly a new MacBook too), but I don't think either will now go on sale before 14th July and possibly later. The question is whether Apple can afford a significant gap between announcement and on sale. The answer is a probable "yes", because the order books will open, the revenues will flow and people will be prevented from spending their hard-earned dollars on non-Apple products during the crucial college buying season.
But here's something.
When you're a company as large as Apple, your new product pipeline has to be rigorously managed. You simply cannot afford to tie your fortunes to the whims and snafus of another company, namely Intel. You have to have bulletproof timelines.
Apple obviously decided some time ago that a new MacBook Pro was needed and so in developing the new model created a critical path to launch. The key factor here was not a timeline driven by the need to make a WWDC announcement, even though such a thing was desirable, but to catch the back to college wave.
After the first Penryn chips were delayed from January to February, Apple would have almost certainly expected a further delay with the Montevina bits it uses. Therefore, I am pretty certain that it was working closely with Intel to get everything ready for its desired launch timetable.
The $1,000,000 question is has Apple gotten the Intel processors and other components it needs ahead of the competition? I wouldn't bet against it.
The bottom line is that a new MBP will soon be with us, even if it is delayed, it shouldn't be more than a few weeks, a month tops.
You just mentioned that all the "Centrino 2" components have been delayed so do you think that Montevina's delay will cause a ripple effect on the future Intel releases (i.e. Nahalem platform) and the adoption of those chips by other computer manufacturers?
No I don't think this will affect the Nehalem timeline. As of today:
- Q4 2008 for Server and High-end desktop cpus/chipsets
Bah, who cares about Intel roadmaps.. The things in the latest iMacs aren't on any roadmap either... nor are the MacBook Air processors, just wait and see.
Foolish? Possibly, even probably. But as I don't tear apart computers, when I want to investigate a quick fact, I'll go to the partially informed press before I believe the word of a random person on a forum. Will I take that word into consideration and go do better research? Yes. Will I believe blindly? No. I've seen too much bullshit claimed to be gospel by self-proclaimed "experts" on forums. Not saying what you claim isn't true, just saying why in the world would you be such a jerk about it? Very disappointing.
Foolish? Possibly, even probably. But as I don't tear apart computers, when I want to investigate a quick fact, I'll go to the partially informed press before I believe the word of a random person on a forum. Will I take that word into consideration and go do better research? Yes. Will I believe blindly? No. I've seen too much bullshit claimed to be gospel by self-proclaimed "experts" on forums. Not saying what you claim isn't true, just saying why in the world would you be such a jerk about it? Very disappointing.
For someone with a handle including "tech" I would think you could actually take the time to check out the ADC site or other Apple releases for personal education rather than get whiny over a couple smilies -- after you took ME to task for not doing research! Calling me a jerk, because of my humorous response to you effectively calling me lazy and/or uninformed and getting schooled on the boomerang return is a bit childish. Grow up.
You don't need to believe me if you don't want to, but anyone blindly believing the press at face value is going to be misdirected in this day and age. Period.
Beyond that, actually proving a negative information link is awful hard. No matter how much I might like to I cannot provide that nonexistent link which says Apple denies using chipset "xxx". it just does not exist. You have to pay attention for months of press releases and hardware technotes. You need to pay close attention to posted past WWDC session videos where the engineers describe their hardware strategy. You have to pay attention to the repeated hardware tear-downs and notice that the chipsets are not exactly what the popular sites say, only use a subset of the components. You have to put all that together with logic and what is and is not said explicitly. It also helps to have liaison engineers tell you big picture stuff such as this too. I can talk about it because those were not under NDA and not specifically about any particular hardware, but that only makes it easier for me to see the confirmation in all the other venues. None of it is hidden, you just have to be able to see the big black spaceship by seeing the hole in the star-field.
Oh yeah. None of that makes me an expert, never said I was. I just pay attention and am one cynical, meticulous, SOB.
Comments
What about the fact that
"Apple offers nearly all its systems with 802.11n-based wireless as standard, preventing any new systems from shipping until Intel's specified August timeframe or later." (Macnn)
and
"Apparently, the Centrino 2 launch will be rolling, with some chipsets hitting in July and others following later. One of the other problems is with FCC certification of the sets with 802.11n, so that wireless N support "may see a slower ramp as Montevina can only be shipped with support 802.11 a/b/g for now." Gizmodo
The Montevenia platform update looks a lot like SR was in relation to the the original merom release in the laptop lineup. A modest and measured improvement but really no reason to delay a purchase IMO.
The next 'big thing' looks like Nehalem.
Tailpipe:
What about the fact that
"Apple offers nearly all its systems with 802.11n-based wireless as standard, preventing any new systems from shipping until Intel's specified August timeframe or later." (Macnn)
and
"Apparently, the Centrino 2 launch will be rolling, with some chipsets hitting in July and others following later. One of the other problems is with FCC certification of the sets with 802.11n, so that wireless N support "may see a slower ramp as Montevina can only be shipped with support 802.11 a/b/g for now." Gizmodo
Apple doesn't use Intel's wireless chips.
I don't see this as a disaster.
The Montevenia platform update looks a lot like SR was in relation to the the original merom release in the laptop lineup. A modest and measured improvement but really no reason to delay a purchase IMO.
The next 'big thing' looks like Nehalem.
Exactly. It's a very minor improvement.
Apple doesn't use Intel's wireless chips.
What is your source?
What is your source?
Tear open the laptop and look.
What is your source?
It's common knowledge that Apple use Atheros and Broadcom wireless chips. Quite why places like MacNN, Gizmodo and AI can't put 2 and 2 together and realise that if Apple use Atheros chips in Macs, that means they don't use Intel WiFi, is anyone's guess.
Tailpipe:
What about the fact that
"Apple offers nearly all its systems with 802.11n-based wireless as standard, preventing any new systems from shipping until Intel's specified August timeframe or later." (Macnn)
and
"Apparently, the Centrino 2 launch will be rolling, with some chipsets hitting in July and others following later. One of the other problems is with FCC certification of the sets with 802.11n, so that wireless N support "may see a slower ramp as Montevina can only be shipped with support 802.11 a/b/g for now." Gizmodo
Apple doesn't use Intel's wireless chips.
This is correct. And the Wi-Fi chips Apple does use are all FCC approved. So, assuming the primary Montevina board is good to go, then we're all set for a new MacBook Pro for WWDC.
In fact, elsewhere there are reports of a container ship loaded to the gunwales with a shipment bound for Apple. Can't just be 3G iPhones.
What is your source?
I know more about computers than MacNN.
This is correct. And the Wi-Fi chips Apple does use are all FCC approved. So, assuming the primary Montevina board is good to go, then we're all set for a new MacBook Pro for WWDC.
In fact, elsewhere there are reports of a container ship loaded to the gunwales with a shipment bound for Apple. Can't just be 3G iPhones.
Still, I'd caution anyone from thinking that Intel will release the platform piecemeal. They may not. They haven't even launched the desktop P45/G45 northbridges yet, and mobile variants usually come later. Reportedly, they're having trouble with the integrated graphics component, too, not just the wi-fi.
From all that I've read, this is incorrect. Centrino is low end and not used in MBPs? I don't think so. Not unless Santa Rosa all of a sudden has never been used in the Pros...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Centrin...orm_.282008.29
http://www.anandtech.com/mac/showdoc.aspx?i=3246&p=2
http://www.appletell.com/apple/comme...-pros-in-june/
Research: it's a beautiful thing
You actually believe them!!!
I suggest you go to some real technical documents and not make the basic mistake of the popular press and so badly over-simplify that the basic technical facts are wrong. All Apples motherboards are custom affairs, designed in an Intel Facility with Apple engineers on the team. Apple does not use the Intel standard distributions. Every site that says the MBP is a "Santa Rosa" platform is incorrect. Several of the components are common with "Santa Rosa", but it is not "Santa Rosa".
It's just so damn easy for journalists to ignore that little subtle difference and take the easy way out in their story so everyone can feel all warm and fuzzy inside equating Apple hardware to Intel press releases and roadmaps. But I have yet to see an Apple release or technical document saying "Santa Rosa", even though carelessly cited as the case nearly everywhere else. That is the power of the partially informed press.
I suggest you go to some real technical documents and not make the basic mistake of the popular press and so badly over-simplify that the basic technical facts are wrong. All Apples motherboards are custom affairs, designed in an Intel Facility with Apple engineers on the team. Apple does not use the Intel standard distributions. Every site that says the MBP is a "Santa Rosa" platform is incorrect. Several of the components are common with "Santa Rosa", but it is not "Santa Rosa".
It's just so damn easy for journalists to ignore that little subtle difference and take the easy way out in their story so everyone can feel all warm and fuzzy inside equating Apple hardware to Intel press releases and roadmaps. But I have yet to see an Apple release or technical document saying "Santa Rosa", even though carelessly cited as the case nearly everywhere else. That is the power of the partially informed press.
Very true. It is very grating when all the sites use "Santa Rosa" and other codenames for various versions of the Centrino platform. It's especially annoying given that there are also codenames for the chipsets (northbridge and southbridge) that Apple actually uses.
For example, Apple laptops referred to as "Napa" are actually "Calistoga"
Apple laptops referred to as "Santa Rosa" are actually "Crestline"
and Apple laptops referred to as "Montevina" will actually be "Cantiga".
The thing is, because none of the Apple press use those names, it's pointless as an individual trying to use them; no-one will know what the hell you're on about.
Having said all of that, I don't think that Apple not using Centrino makes Centrino a low-end platform. Certainly the Centrino platform has always incorporated Intel's highest-performance CPUs and mobile motherboard chipsets.
Below is a quote from Ars technica:
An Intel spokesperson told Ars that the delay was essentially due to "paperwork" surrounding the wireless antennas used in the chipset. "There are no technical problems with the platform," the spokesperson said.
On July 14, the first PM chipsets (which use discrete graphics processors) will appear, along with Core 2 Duo and Core 2 Extreme Mobile CPUs. GM chipsets (integrated graphics) won't hit the market until August, as the spokesperson said Intel needs to rescreen all of the Montevina integrated graphics chipsets.
Montevina is the successor to Intel's current Santa Rosa platform, and will come in two flavors: Shirley Peak and Echo Peak. Like Santa Rosa, Shirley Peak will use a 45nm Penryn CPU and will also include full support for 802.11n (Draft 2.0). Echo Peak will build on Shirley Peak, incorporating full support for WiMAX (802.16e-2005), which Intel says will be capable of speeds of up to 10Mbps down and 4Mbps up, into the chipset.
Intel has yet to announce a shipping date for Echo Peak,
For me that means that Apple computers are also affected by these delays (unless Apple didn't planned to release updated notebooks this summer, which I doubt).
IMO, the MBP will get updated late July and the MacBook mid-August. The iMac can wait a bit longer, and the fate of the Mac mini is yet unknown.
As far as I know, the 1st mobile quad and the small package parts are still expected for September.
I still think that Apple will announce a revised MBP at WWDC (and quite possibly a new MacBook too), but I don't think either will now go on sale before 14th July and possibly later. The question is whether Apple can afford a significant gap between announcement and on sale. The answer is a probable "yes", because the order books will open, the revenues will flow and people will be prevented from spending their hard-earned dollars on non-Apple products during the crucial college buying season.
But here's something.
When you're a company as large as Apple, your new product pipeline has to be rigorously managed. You simply cannot afford to tie your fortunes to the whims and snafus of another company, namely Intel. You have to have bulletproof timelines.
Apple obviously decided some time ago that a new MacBook Pro was needed and so in developing the new model created a critical path to launch. The key factor here was not a timeline driven by the need to make a WWDC announcement, even though such a thing was desirable, but to catch the back to college wave.
After the first Penryn chips were delayed from January to February, Apple would have almost certainly expected a further delay with the Montevina bits it uses. Therefore, I am pretty certain that it was working closely with Intel to get everything ready for its desired launch timetable.
The $1,000,000 question is has Apple gotten the Intel processors and other components it needs ahead of the competition? I wouldn't bet against it.
The bottom line is that a new MBP will soon be with us, even if it is delayed, it shouldn't be more than a few weeks, a month tops.
You just mentioned that all the "Centrino 2" components have been delayed so do you think that Montevina's delay will cause a ripple effect on the future Intel releases (i.e. Nahalem platform) and the adoption of those chips by other computer manufacturers?
No I don't think this will affect the Nehalem timeline. As of today:
- Q4 2008 for Server and High-end desktop cpus/chipsets
- Q1 2009 for regular Desktop cpus/chipsets
- Q2 2009 for regular Mobile cpus/chipsets
- Q3 2009 for Specialty cpus/chipsets
You actually believe them!!!
.
Foolish? Possibly, even probably. But as I don't tear apart computers, when I want to investigate a quick fact, I'll go to the partially informed press before I believe the word of a random person on a forum. Will I take that word into consideration and go do better research? Yes. Will I believe blindly? No. I've seen too much bullshit claimed to be gospel by self-proclaimed "experts" on forums. Not saying what you claim isn't true, just saying why in the world would you be such a jerk about it?
Foolish? Possibly, even probably. But as I don't tear apart computers, when I want to investigate a quick fact, I'll go to the partially informed press before I believe the word of a random person on a forum. Will I take that word into consideration and go do better research? Yes. Will I believe blindly? No. I've seen too much bullshit claimed to be gospel by self-proclaimed "experts" on forums. Not saying what you claim isn't true, just saying why in the world would you be such a jerk about it?
For someone with a handle including "tech" I would think you could actually take the time to check out the ADC site or other Apple releases for personal education rather than get whiny over a couple smilies -- after you took ME to task for not doing research! Calling me a jerk, because of my humorous response to you effectively calling me lazy and/or uninformed and getting schooled on the boomerang return is a bit childish. Grow up.
You don't need to believe me if you don't want to, but anyone blindly believing the press at face value is going to be misdirected in this day and age. Period.
Beyond that, actually proving a negative information link is awful hard. No matter how much I might like to I cannot provide that nonexistent link which says Apple denies using chipset "xxx". it just does not exist. You have to pay attention for months of press releases and hardware technotes. You need to pay close attention to posted past WWDC session videos where the engineers describe their hardware strategy. You have to pay attention to the repeated hardware tear-downs and notice that the chipsets are not exactly what the popular sites say, only use a subset of the components. You have to put all that together with logic and what is and is not said explicitly. It also helps to have liaison engineers tell you big picture stuff such as this too. I can talk about it because those were not under NDA and not specifically about any particular hardware, but that only makes it easier for me to see the confirmation in all the other venues. None of it is hidden, you just have to be able to see the big black spaceship by seeing the hole in the star-field.
Oh yeah. None of that makes me an expert, never said I was. I just pay attention and am one cynical, meticulous, SOB.