Extremely value added dev tools that use the above.
Long uptimes.
Lack of catastrophic crashes.
A cleaner UI philosophy (I don't mean pinstripes, I mean moving Quit from under File, etc... heck, my computer illiterate mother noticed this right off and commented on it... she *loves* MacOS X over 9, hands down, no question, strictly because it makes more sense to her now)
Wider application base ((Classic + BSD + MacOSX only) > BSD, and > Classic).
Compositing graphics model that is just now starting to be tapped.
A core platform that can be built *on*, not continually shored up.
These alone are worth it to me.
If you really can't see any added value for you, then just don't buy it. What's the problem with that?
Amen, if you don't like it... stick with 8.6 or whatever. Or even better, switch to XP which is, ny the way, no picnic. It's not much more than a pretty NT4.
I am rather content with X now. I have directories with 1000s of files and I don't see these horrible slow downs.. no worse than what I see on my PC.
<strong>and since I am TRULY an "eye-candy" junkie... I will dig all the little extras that changed; Folders "popping open" when you drill-into them, the cursor shadow, the new beach-ball spinning cursor... these things may mean nothing to some people (and it IS low on my list) but it is still there.</strong><hr></blockquote>
This all reminds me of the NeXT days... Your home directory's icon is a house. When you drag item(s) over it, the house's windows all light up. When you drag item(s) over folders, they physically open up. Stuff like this just adds to the coolness factor.
Yeah, Apple needs to speed their junk up, but cut em some slack. I wouldn't go back to OS 9 for anything. In fact, my G4 sat in the closet after using DP1 for awhile.. DP1 wasnt usable for daily tasks but it allowed me to realize what a dog 9 was.
It's a good time to be a Mac user. Stop whining and just be patient.
I have been lurking here for quite a while, but I finally felt the need to actually post something at this point. This thread seems given over to whining about having to pay for jaguar. I wonder if any of you remember the upgrade to 10.1?
All I had to do was drive for ten minutes down to my neighborhood ComUSA and ask for the upgrade disk. I strongly suspect that this upgrade will be handled similarly. In other words, I have NEVER actually paid for OS X. I got a free copy of 10.0.0 and have been getting fre upgrades ever since.
At this point I am looking at buying a new iMac, so I think that I will wait for jaguar to come out
Lastly, those that do have to pay for it, will probably pay a nominal upgrade fee, IF they have a current version (10.1.x). So quit whining until we find out. And for those of you who have paid for OS X multiple times... well, I feel sorry for you.
The upgrade Jaguar cost is not the OS upgrade fee but the need to upgrade relatively new systems with 32MB graphics card or TiBooks (500/400) or other systems to run the new Quartz.
You know the drill. Bloat the OS, upgrade your hardware except unlike most MS users, Apple can depend on us fanatical types to an accelerated upgrade cycle.
I have no problem with paying for upgrade but my TiBook 500 with 8MB video card simply is NOT going to run jaguar which means I am forever stuck with 10.1.x. And forget the iBooks with G3's and 8-16MB video.
<strong>I have no problem with paying for upgrade but my TiBook 500 with 8MB video card simply is NOT going to run jaguar which means I am forever stuck with 10.1.x. And forget the iBooks with G3's and 8-16MB video.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Um, your PowerBook will run Jaguar. You just won't be able to take advantage of Quartz Extreme. The question is will Jaguar be "snappy" (Now Apple's descriptive of choice) enough without it?
<strong>The upgrade Jaguar cost is not the OS upgrade fee but the need to upgrade relatively new systems with 32MB graphics card or TiBooks (500/400) or other systems to run the new Quartz.
You know the drill. Bloat the OS, upgrade your hardware except unlike most MS users, Apple can depend on us fanatical types to an accelerated upgrade cycle.
I have no problem with paying for upgrade but my TiBook 500 with 8MB video card simply is NOT going to run jaguar which means I am forever stuck with 10.1.x. And forget the iBooks with G3's and 8-16MB video.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Your 500 TiBook WILL run Jaguar; as will any computer that is currently able to run OS X - and OS X will be faster. Nobody will be "stuck" with 10.1.x! What a stupid statement.
32 MB is the recommendation for getting OPTIMAL performance out of Quartz Extreme. Any of the cards listed by Apple will use QEx. Look up the word "optimal" in a dictionary.
I'm sorry for the rant, but comments like these are popping up all over the Mac forums; filled with wrong information and anti-mac rhetoric.
EatMe, I realize that the onset of puberty can be a difficult time; what with all those hormones flooding your system making you wish to have sex with anything that moves, at a time when your face is covered with unsightly blemishes, so the girls/boys run screaming from your clumsy advances. Be patient. In ten (or 20, in your case) years the upheaval you are currently going through will abate somewhat and you can once again turn your mind to technical matters.
Back to the subject at hand... I don't have a problem with Apple significantly improving the operating system; and am more than willing to pay for these improvements. Not because I am a "fanatical type", but because I recognize worth when I see it.
I hardly see Jaguar forcing an accelerated upgrade cycle, since it will come about a year after 10.1 (a free upgrade) and a year and a half after OS X originally shipped, and I intend to run Jaguar on my 400Mhz G3 PowerBook with it's 8MB video RAM that is over 2 years old and that I don't intend to replace for another one or two years.
I don't see anything accelerated about that at all.
<strong>The upgrade Jaguar cost is not the OS upgrade fee but the need to upgrade relatively new systems with 32MB graphics card or TiBooks (500/400) or other systems to run the new Quartz.
You know the drill. Bloat the OS, upgrade your hardware except unlike most MS users, Apple can depend on us fanatical types to an accelerated upgrade cycle.
I have no problem with paying for upgrade but my TiBook 500 with 8MB video card simply is NOT going to run jaguar which means I am forever stuck with 10.1.x. And forget the iBooks with G3's and 8-16MB video.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Are you crazy? Apple is giving us what we want in this release...more speed, a good AIM client, more integrated Address Book, more speed, Watson for free, and more speed. None of it requires Quartz Extreme. My iMac has 6MB of VRAM. All that I care about is that stuff regardless of what video card setup I have will be faster. Also, I'm one of the unlucky few who didn't know sh!t about Unix when they started using the OS and really screwed up the permisions on my install drive. 10.2 is going to have a free utility to fix that.
I would willingly pay full price for Jaguar just to get that.
But we probably wont, I suspect it will be the same way it was when 10.1 came around. You pay 20 bucks and we ship it to you, or you can pick a disk up free at the Apple Store.
Apple doesn't make its money off of software, it makes it off of its hardware. The software is just the sweet spot in the hardware. Therefore to make its hardware more attractive it must make its software awesome and mostly free.
As for paying for Jaguar, well, I look at it this way. I wasn't thrilled about paying $99 for the handful of improvements in Mac OS 8. I didn't terribly mind paying $99 for 8.5, because I immediately upgraded it to 8.6.1, and that was one of the best iterations of the old Mac OS. I begrudgingly paid for Mac OS 9. Why? Because Apple was busily replacing all the underlying plumbing to the extent that they could. OS 9 was much better behaved than OS 8 (with the possible exception of 8.6.1), or certainly OS 7.
I wasn't stoked to pay for 10.0 or 10.1 either. I knew I was paying for operating systems that didn't have a lot of nice features that the old OS had, just like before I was paying for operating systems that didn't have a lot of the nice features that were coming in the new OS. At least I'm paying for a solid foundation and a growing feature set instead of a relatively complete feature set built on a shaky foundation.
Apple is in a transition period. It's awkward. I'm sure Apple would have loved to have released something like Jaguar as the first OS X version, but it took them as long as it did to get to Jaguar, and if Apple hadn't released 10.0 when they did they'd have lost all credibility. People were already starting to cry "Copland."
And yes, people were at least this patient with NT, which MS promised would be "a better UNIX" in its first incarnation, and which never delivered on that promise. As for drivers, it's no accident that USB provides device class drivers for whole categories of peripherals. NT's problem, later on, was that it didn't support USB well. Our newer NT machines still shipped with PS/2 keyboards and mice.
<strong>Apple is in a transition period. It's awkward. I'm sure Apple would have loved to have released something like Jaguar as the first OS X version, but it took them as long as it did to get to Jaguar, and if Apple hadn't released 10.0 when they did they'd have lost all credibility. People were already starting to cry "Copland."</strong><hr></blockquote>
I'm not entirely sure this is the whole story. To be honest, the people that I know that use the classic Mac OS day in, day out in publishing, video editing, design, etc. didn't even know about the planned changes to the foundations coming in OS X. OS 8/9/whatever worked, and though everyone had complaints, they just assumed there'd be another iteration that would fix some problems and bring along many others. Even now, more than a year after the release of 10.0, the vast majority are still using stable versions of OS 8 or 9, waiting for OS X to be proven and for solid applications to appear.
Of course Apple had to get OS X out the door to get users and, more importantly, developers interested.
The reason I questioned the possibility of a full upgrade charge for Jaguar (If indeed that is what happens) is because since January, OS X has been forced upon all customers, and even before that time Apple was trying to persuade people to switch.
As "early adopters", which I'm guessing most people here are, nobody will bat an eyelid at paying for improvements to the badly flawed OS they've been using for more than a year. I just wonder how happy new users will be at being asked to pay for a more complete OS.
One thing is for sure - If MX Studio is as slow, buggy, and feature-incomplete as OS X 10.1.*, I won't wait a year for an update then pay Macromedia to fix flaws in an application that wasn't in a fit state to be sold in the first place.
<strong>dws, the crack about puberty was uncalled-for.
</strong><hr></blockquote>
Perhaps you are right; after all, you are an administrator of this site and all users should listen to your guidance.
However, I felt that the person's claim that Jaguar would not run on older computers & that it was all a plot by Apple to force people into buying new hardware to be so absurd that I attempted to place his comments in an absurd light. My 'crack' was simply an effort to show how juvenile the statements were.
Perhaps I should have inserted an appropriate smiley after my puberty paragraph to show that I was making a sarcastic commentary. I had assumed that it was obvious; but must have written it more poorly than I had intended, since a site administrator took the time to take my comments to task.
I sincerely apologize to anyone who found my comments to be inappropriate.
<strong>I'm not entirely sure this is the whole story. To be honest, the people that I know that use the classic Mac OS day in, day out in publishing, video editing, design, etc. didn't even know about the planned changes to the foundations coming in OS X.</strong><hr></blockquote>
True, and then there are the people who still think Apple went out of business. But those aren't the people Apple had to sell OS X to. The press, and the shareholders, and the developers were the ones freaking out about whether OS X would be another Pink/Taligent/Copland.
[quote]<strong>The reason I questioned the possibility of a full upgrade charge for Jaguar (If indeed that is what happens) is because since January, OS X has been forced upon all customers, and even before that time Apple was trying to persuade people to switch.</strong><hr></blockquote>
I don't think it's a given that Apple will charge for Jaguar. It looks like they'll charge for Jaguar Server. But if Apple does decide to charge us, which is not out of the question, they can argue that we're paying for a bunch of spiffy new features and getting some basic functionality added or improved. Obviously, this is not ideal, but when have Apple been ideal?
[quote]<strong>As "early adopters", which I'm guessing most people here are, nobody will bat an eyelid at paying for improvements to the badly flawed OS they've been using for more than a year. I just wonder how happy new users will be at being asked to pay for a more complete OS.</strong><hr></blockquote>
The overwhelming majority of people never upgrade their OS. Some fraction of those might get incremental updates via Software Update, but a paid upgrade obviously won't be there. So the answer is that most new users will chug along with 10.1.x until they replace their machines. Some new users will doubtless be annoyed or angered at having to pay for an update, but again, what's new?
[quote]<strong>One thing is for sure - If MX Studio is as slow, buggy, and feature-incomplete as OS X 10.1.*, I won't wait a year for an update then pay Macromedia to fix flaws in an application that wasn't in a fit state to be sold in the first place.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Any Quark or Office users care to comment?
[quote]<strong>We're a tolerant bunch round here. Sometimes. </strong><hr></blockquote>
Sometimes you have to be. <img src="graemlins/hmmm.gif" border="0" alt="[Hmmm]" />
You asked what features are worth paying for - we'll here's an answer from probably the least technical guy on this board (I don't even know what Quartz is, something to do with graphics apparently).
In general I'm pretty satisfied with OS X, except that a lot of companies haven't written proper OS X drivers, e.g., Epson printers, OrangeMicro iBot, etc. This is killing me.
Putting two OS'es on one machine is awkward. Everything should be re-written for X (this is, of course, happening).
Those are my two main complaints. Now if Apple accelerates iDisk, improves the printing situation, and in general speeds things up, I'd pay for that. It might also be nice if the Software Update feature tracked all of the software on your machine rather than just Apple software (yes, I know about Version Tracker).
I don't use anywhere near the number of features that most of you use since I mostly use MS Office, surf the web, email (Hotmail), and play games. A little video editing and scanning on occassion too.
Let's face it people, for how many years has Microsoft been charging for revisions with no apparent increase in reliability and usefullness?
MSFT sold Win/98 yet it wasn't all that much better than Win/95 OSR2. Personally, I'd rather pay Apple every 1-2 years for an OS upgrade with real additional substance.
<strong>Those are my two main complaints. Now if Apple accelerates iDisk, improves the printing situation, and in general speeds things up, I'd pay for that.</strong><hr></blockquote>
This is my grievance, though. Surely we have the right to expect proper printer support and a reasonable level of performance in 10.0? It's understandable that Apple had other concerns at the time, and was trying to get the product out the door, but these basics should be provided in free updates.
I'm perfectly happy to pay for all the new stuff that'll come with Jaguar, just a bit miffed at having to pay for basic things that should have been there in the first place.
I'm looking forward to Jaguar as much as anyone, and will pay for the upgrade like everyone else (Assuming it isn't free), but it does surprise me that nobody holds a grudge about paying for basic OS features.
My suggestion is this - Most rumor sites suggest there'll be a minor update in the coming weeks before Jaguar is released. How about Apple includes the basics in that update? A Finder that works, printing that works properly, and all the bug fixes. Then we can decide whether we want to pay for all the "goodies" in Jaguar like iChat, the Address Book, and we can pay for Quartz Extreme if we have a card that supports it.
[quote] My suggestion is this - Most rumor sites suggest there'll be a minor update in the coming weeks before Jaguar is released. How about Apple includes the basics in that update? A Finder that works, printing that works properly, and all the bug fixes. Then we can decide whether we want to pay for all the "goodies" in Jaguar like iChat, the Address Book, and we can pay for Quartz Extreme if we have a card that supports it.<hr></blockquote>
sounds reasonible....my iMac 800 is only a few months old, and i would like my coupons to at least get me a discount on 10.2/10.5....but for all the features i'm hearing and seeing about with the new os, i would buy it if it is reasonably priced (hell, who am i kidding, i'm buying it no matter what, but then i am a fool and a tool that bends at apples will <img src="graemlins/bugeye.gif" border="0" alt="[Skeptical]" /> ) )...but then my machine should benefit from quartz extreme...not all will....as for drivers, my printer has always worked in X, it is my damn umax scanner that i am waiting to use again.....g
One more thing - sleep needs to work better. I gave up on sleep when it would either refuse to sleep or would refuse to wake up. Now I just turn off the LCD and spin down the hard drive.
Comments
<strong>Belle, you're joking, right?
BSD core.
Industrial networking.
Standardized developer tools at the CLI.
Extremely value added dev tools that use the above.
Long uptimes.
Lack of catastrophic crashes.
A cleaner UI philosophy (I don't mean pinstripes, I mean moving Quit from under File, etc... heck, my computer illiterate mother noticed this right off and commented on it... she *loves* MacOS X over 9, hands down, no question, strictly because it makes more sense to her now)
Wider application base ((Classic + BSD + MacOSX only) > BSD, and > Classic).
Compositing graphics model that is just now starting to be tapped.
A core platform that can be built *on*, not continually shored up.
These alone are worth it to me.
If you really can't see any added value for you, then just don't buy it. What's the problem with that?
[ 05-17-2002: Message edited by: Kickaha ]</strong><hr></blockquote>
Amen, if you don't like it... stick with 8.6 or whatever. Or even better, switch to XP which is, ny the way, no picnic. It's not much more than a pretty NT4.
I am rather content with X now. I have directories with 1000s of files and I don't see these horrible slow downs.. no worse than what I see on my PC.
<strong>and since I am TRULY an "eye-candy" junkie... I will dig all the little extras that changed; Folders "popping open" when you drill-into them, the cursor shadow, the new beach-ball spinning cursor... these things may mean nothing to some people (and it IS low on my list) but it is still there.</strong><hr></blockquote>
This all reminds me of the NeXT days... Your home directory's icon is a house. When you drag item(s) over it, the house's windows all light up. When you drag item(s) over folders, they physically open up. Stuff like this just adds to the coolness factor.
Yeah, Apple needs to speed their junk up, but cut em some slack. I wouldn't go back to OS 9 for anything. In fact, my G4 sat in the closet after using DP1 for awhile.. DP1 wasnt usable for daily tasks but it allowed me to realize what a dog 9 was.
It's a good time to be a Mac user. Stop whining and just be patient.
All I had to do was drive for ten minutes down to my neighborhood ComUSA and ask for the upgrade disk. I strongly suspect that this upgrade will be handled similarly. In other words, I have NEVER actually paid for OS X. I got a free copy of 10.0.0 and have been getting fre upgrades ever since.
At this point I am looking at buying a new iMac, so I think that I will wait for jaguar to come out
Lastly, those that do have to pay for it, will probably pay a nominal upgrade fee, IF they have a current version (10.1.x). So quit whining until we find out. And for those of you who have paid for OS X multiple times... well, I feel sorry for you.
[edit: stupid spelling mistakes... /edit]
[ 05-18-2002: Message edited by: Ringwraith ]</p>
Hey if 1 person says, "no" and whines, while 20 people hands over the money. Hey it doesn't take a genius in business to screw that one minority.
SO yes, you are "price-taker".
Take it or go run along. Very simple, clean, and economic.
Apple like any business knows the game fairly well. They haven't had any fiascos in a long time(no matter what a small amount of critics say)
I trust they will be able to make something to satisfy MOST people.
~Kuku
<strong>Hahah make us PAY for a Cocoa finder. Damn them!
Hmm? The Finder won't be written in Cocoa in Jaguar. What are you on about?
You know the drill. Bloat the OS, upgrade your hardware except unlike most MS users, Apple can depend on us fanatical types to an accelerated upgrade cycle.
I have no problem with paying for upgrade but my TiBook 500 with 8MB video card simply is NOT going to run jaguar which means I am forever stuck with 10.1.x. And forget the iBooks with G3's and 8-16MB video.
<strong>I have no problem with paying for upgrade but my TiBook 500 with 8MB video card simply is NOT going to run jaguar which means I am forever stuck with 10.1.x. And forget the iBooks with G3's and 8-16MB video.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Um, your PowerBook will run Jaguar. You just won't be able to take advantage of Quartz Extreme. The question is will Jaguar be "snappy" (Now Apple's descriptive of choice) enough without it?
[ 05-19-2002: Message edited by: Belle ]</p>
<strong>The upgrade Jaguar cost is not the OS upgrade fee but the need to upgrade relatively new systems with 32MB graphics card or TiBooks (500/400) or other systems to run the new Quartz.
You know the drill. Bloat the OS, upgrade your hardware except unlike most MS users, Apple can depend on us fanatical types to an accelerated upgrade cycle.
I have no problem with paying for upgrade but my TiBook 500 with 8MB video card simply is NOT going to run jaguar which means I am forever stuck with 10.1.x. And forget the iBooks with G3's and 8-16MB video.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Your 500 TiBook WILL run Jaguar; as will any computer that is currently able to run OS X - and OS X will be faster. Nobody will be "stuck" with 10.1.x! What a stupid statement.
32 MB is the recommendation for getting OPTIMAL performance out of Quartz Extreme. Any of the cards listed by Apple will use QEx. Look up the word "optimal" in a dictionary.
I'm sorry for the rant, but comments like these are popping up all over the Mac forums; filled with wrong information and anti-mac rhetoric.
EatMe, I realize that the onset of puberty can be a difficult time; what with all those hormones flooding your system making you wish to have sex with anything that moves, at a time when your face is covered with unsightly blemishes, so the girls/boys run screaming from your clumsy advances. Be patient. In ten (or 20, in your case) years the upheaval you are currently going through will abate somewhat and you can once again turn your mind to technical matters.
Back to the subject at hand... I don't have a problem with Apple significantly improving the operating system; and am more than willing to pay for these improvements. Not because I am a "fanatical type", but because I recognize worth when I see it.
I don't see anything accelerated about that at all.
<strong>The upgrade Jaguar cost is not the OS upgrade fee but the need to upgrade relatively new systems with 32MB graphics card or TiBooks (500/400) or other systems to run the new Quartz.
You know the drill. Bloat the OS, upgrade your hardware except unlike most MS users, Apple can depend on us fanatical types to an accelerated upgrade cycle.
I have no problem with paying for upgrade but my TiBook 500 with 8MB video card simply is NOT going to run jaguar which means I am forever stuck with 10.1.x. And forget the iBooks with G3's and 8-16MB video.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Are you crazy? Apple is giving us what we want in this release...more speed, a good AIM client, more integrated Address Book, more speed, Watson for free, and more speed. None of it requires Quartz Extreme. My iMac has 6MB of VRAM. All that I care about is that stuff regardless of what video card setup I have will be faster. Also, I'm one of the unlucky few who didn't know sh!t about Unix when they started using the OS and really screwed up the permisions on my install drive. 10.2 is going to have a free utility to fix that.
I would willingly pay full price for Jaguar just to get that.
But we probably wont, I suspect it will be the same way it was when 10.1 came around. You pay 20 bucks and we ship it to you, or you can pick a disk up free at the Apple Store.
Apple doesn't make its money off of software, it makes it off of its hardware. The software is just the sweet spot in the hardware. Therefore to make its hardware more attractive it must make its software awesome and mostly free.
Calm down, it wont be much.
As for paying for Jaguar, well, I look at it this way. I wasn't thrilled about paying $99 for the handful of improvements in Mac OS 8. I didn't terribly mind paying $99 for 8.5, because I immediately upgraded it to 8.6.1, and that was one of the best iterations of the old Mac OS. I begrudgingly paid for Mac OS 9. Why? Because Apple was busily replacing all the underlying plumbing to the extent that they could. OS 9 was much better behaved than OS 8 (with the possible exception of 8.6.1), or certainly OS 7.
I wasn't stoked to pay for 10.0 or 10.1 either. I knew I was paying for operating systems that didn't have a lot of nice features that the old OS had, just like before I was paying for operating systems that didn't have a lot of the nice features that were coming in the new OS. At least I'm paying for a solid foundation and a growing feature set instead of a relatively complete feature set built on a shaky foundation.
Apple is in a transition period. It's awkward. I'm sure Apple would have loved to have released something like Jaguar as the first OS X version, but it took them as long as it did to get to Jaguar, and if Apple hadn't released 10.0 when they did they'd have lost all credibility. People were already starting to cry "Copland."
And yes, people were at least this patient with NT, which MS promised would be "a better UNIX" in its first incarnation, and which never delivered on that promise. As for drivers, it's no accident that USB provides device class drivers for whole categories of peripherals. NT's problem, later on, was that it didn't support USB well. Our newer NT machines still shipped with PS/2 keyboards and mice.
<strong>Apple is in a transition period. It's awkward. I'm sure Apple would have loved to have released something like Jaguar as the first OS X version, but it took them as long as it did to get to Jaguar, and if Apple hadn't released 10.0 when they did they'd have lost all credibility. People were already starting to cry "Copland."</strong><hr></blockquote>
I'm not entirely sure this is the whole story. To be honest, the people that I know that use the classic Mac OS day in, day out in publishing, video editing, design, etc. didn't even know about the planned changes to the foundations coming in OS X. OS 8/9/whatever worked, and though everyone had complaints, they just assumed there'd be another iteration that would fix some problems and bring along many others. Even now, more than a year after the release of 10.0, the vast majority are still using stable versions of OS 8 or 9, waiting for OS X to be proven and for solid applications to appear.
Of course Apple had to get OS X out the door to get users and, more importantly, developers interested.
The reason I questioned the possibility of a full upgrade charge for Jaguar (If indeed that is what happens) is because since January, OS X has been forced upon all customers, and even before that time Apple was trying to persuade people to switch.
As "early adopters", which I'm guessing most people here are, nobody will bat an eyelid at paying for improvements to the badly flawed OS they've been using for more than a year. I just wonder how happy new users will be at being asked to pay for a more complete OS.
One thing is for sure - If MX Studio is as slow, buggy, and feature-incomplete as OS X 10.1.*, I won't wait a year for an update then pay Macromedia to fix flaws in an application that wasn't in a fit state to be sold in the first place.
We're a tolerant bunch round here. Sometimes.
<strong>dws, the crack about puberty was uncalled-for.
</strong><hr></blockquote>
Perhaps you are right; after all, you are an administrator of this site and all users should listen to your guidance.
However, I felt that the person's claim that Jaguar would not run on older computers & that it was all a plot by Apple to force people into buying new hardware to be so absurd that I attempted to place his comments in an absurd light. My 'crack' was simply an effort to show how juvenile the statements were.
Perhaps I should have inserted an appropriate smiley after my puberty paragraph to show that I was making a sarcastic commentary. I had assumed that it was obvious; but must have written it more poorly than I had intended, since a site administrator took the time to take my comments to task.
I sincerely apologize to anyone who found my comments to be inappropriate.
<strong>I sincerely apologize to anyone who found my comments to be inappropriate.
I don't think that rolling eyes smiley is going to get you anywhere fast. :-P
<strong>I'm not entirely sure this is the whole story. To be honest, the people that I know that use the classic Mac OS day in, day out in publishing, video editing, design, etc. didn't even know about the planned changes to the foundations coming in OS X.</strong><hr></blockquote>
True, and then there are the people who still think Apple went out of business.
[quote]<strong>The reason I questioned the possibility of a full upgrade charge for Jaguar (If indeed that is what happens) is because since January, OS X has been forced upon all customers, and even before that time Apple was trying to persuade people to switch.</strong><hr></blockquote>
I don't think it's a given that Apple will charge for Jaguar. It looks like they'll charge for Jaguar Server. But if Apple does decide to charge us, which is not out of the question, they can argue that we're paying for a bunch of spiffy new features and getting some basic functionality added or improved. Obviously, this is not ideal, but when have Apple been ideal?
[quote]<strong>As "early adopters", which I'm guessing most people here are, nobody will bat an eyelid at paying for improvements to the badly flawed OS they've been using for more than a year. I just wonder how happy new users will be at being asked to pay for a more complete OS.</strong><hr></blockquote>
The overwhelming majority of people never upgrade their OS. Some fraction of those might get incremental updates via Software Update, but a paid upgrade obviously won't be there. So the answer is that most new users will chug along with 10.1.x until they replace their machines. Some new users will doubtless be annoyed or angered at having to pay for an update, but again, what's new?
[quote]<strong>One thing is for sure - If MX Studio is as slow, buggy, and feature-incomplete as OS X 10.1.*, I won't wait a year for an update then pay Macromedia to fix flaws in an application that wasn't in a fit state to be sold in the first place.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Any Quark or Office users care to comment?
[quote]<strong>We're a tolerant bunch round here. Sometimes.
Sometimes you have to be. <img src="graemlins/hmmm.gif" border="0" alt="[Hmmm]" />
[ 05-20-2002: Message edited by: Amorph ]</p>
You asked what features are worth paying for - we'll here's an answer from probably the least technical guy on this board (I don't even know what Quartz is, something to do with graphics apparently).
In general I'm pretty satisfied with OS X, except that a lot of companies haven't written proper OS X drivers, e.g., Epson printers, OrangeMicro iBot, etc. This is killing me.
Putting two OS'es on one machine is awkward. Everything should be re-written for X (this is, of course, happening).
Those are my two main complaints. Now if Apple accelerates iDisk, improves the printing situation, and in general speeds things up, I'd pay for that. It might also be nice if the Software Update feature tracked all of the software on your machine rather than just Apple software (yes, I know about Version Tracker).
I don't use anywhere near the number of features that most of you use since I mostly use MS Office, surf the web, email (Hotmail), and play games. A little video editing and scanning on occassion too.
Let's face it people, for how many years has Microsoft been charging for revisions with no apparent increase in reliability and usefullness?
MSFT sold Win/98 yet it wasn't all that much better than Win/95 OSR2. Personally, I'd rather pay Apple every 1-2 years for an OS upgrade with real additional substance.
<strong>Those are my two main complaints. Now if Apple accelerates iDisk, improves the printing situation, and in general speeds things up, I'd pay for that.</strong><hr></blockquote>
This is my grievance, though. Surely we have the right to expect proper printer support and a reasonable level of performance in 10.0? It's understandable that Apple had other concerns at the time, and was trying to get the product out the door, but these basics should be provided in free updates.
I'm perfectly happy to pay for all the new stuff that'll come with Jaguar, just a bit miffed at having to pay for basic things that should have been there in the first place.
I'm looking forward to Jaguar as much as anyone, and will pay for the upgrade like everyone else (Assuming it isn't free), but it does surprise me that nobody holds a grudge about paying for basic OS features.
My suggestion is this - Most rumor sites suggest there'll be a minor update in the coming weeks before Jaguar is released. How about Apple includes the basics in that update? A Finder that works, printing that works properly, and all the bug fixes. Then we can decide whether we want to pay for all the "goodies" in Jaguar like iChat, the Address Book, and we can pay for Quartz Extreme if we have a card that supports it.
[ 05-20-2002: Message edited by: Belle ]</p>
sounds reasonible....my iMac 800 is only a few months old, and i would like my coupons to at least get me a discount on 10.2/10.5....but for all the features i'm hearing and seeing about with the new os, i would buy it if it is reasonably priced (hell, who am i kidding, i'm buying it no matter what, but then i am a fool and a tool that bends at apples will <img src="graemlins/bugeye.gif" border="0" alt="[Skeptical]" /> ) )...but then my machine should benefit from quartz extreme...not all will....as for drivers, my printer has always worked in X, it is my damn umax scanner that i am waiting to use again.....g
One more thing - sleep needs to work better. I gave up on sleep when it would either refuse to sleep or would refuse to wake up. Now I just turn off the LCD and spin down the hard drive.