Tidbits: Retail blackout days; 3G iPhone ad filming; iPhone GPS

135

Comments

  • Reply 41 of 82
    cnocbuicnocbui Posts: 3,613member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by gar View Post


    It's criminal behavior...



    Next time they get bored, they rape a 13 year old girl just to explore their potential and have some fun!



    Or come after you with a baseball bat to explore the thickness of your skull, take your MacBook from your cold hands, remove your account and put a new password on it... just for fun!



    It isn't fun, it is vandalism.

    It isn't exploring, it is boredom



    dump kids... bah



    I think you are mentally challenged. Someone else has already drawn attention to the illegal activities of Apples founders when they were kids. So how did those kids turn out again? How could you write such drivel after reading such a brilliant example - or didn't you read it and comprehend the irony? Just to help you understand the previous sentence, here's a hint, irony has nothing to do with ferrous metals.



    Your extrapolations are extreme, rendering your argument nonsensical.
  • Reply 42 of 82
    nasdarqnasdarq Posts: 137member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by cnocbui View Post


    To use a photo of someone, or in which a person appears and is identifiable, for commercial purposes, don't you need a model release signed by the person/s in the photograph?



    I am not a lawyer, but Apple engages in commercial enterprise and if it is using images of these two as part of furthering its commercial activities...



    Looks very dodgy indeed. And apart from the photo story, it seems as if a private company (not the State) has prosecuted those kids and imposed some kind of a "vertical" penalty (no visit to Apple stores for life!!!), which also applies "horizontally" (in all jurisdictions ...). Or is this some kind of a bizarre "exclusion clause" if we approach the matter from the purely contract law point of view? But contracts have to be negotiated and entered into in the first place, and the exclusion clauses have to be properly brought to the attention and to be "reasonable" ... This is so disputable. But I don't think those kids will go to court now will they? At the end of the day, one must admit that Apple may have well started a criminal complaint against the kids, which they didn't. So it's probably just a trade-off, after all.
  • Reply 43 of 82
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by gar View Post


    It's criminal behavior...



    Next time they get bored, they rape a 13 year old girl just to explore their potential and have some fun!



    Or come after you with a baseball bat to explore the thickness of your skull, take your MacBook from your cold hands, remove your account and put a new password on it... just for fun!



    It isn't fun, it is vandalism.

    It isn't exploring, it is boredom



    dump kids... bah



    kind of sucks calling someone dumb and spelling it wrong.



    Anyway, another poster stated that the punishment should be proportionate to the crime here. Did they break store rules.. absolutely. If the manager "created" a lifetime ban in his anger, great. It will probably only be in effect for that store. How many of the rugrats working is apple are going to notice that these kids resemble the faux wanted poster created by the manager? How does the manager of this store have the power to ban someone from every Apple store? It is a toothless punishment.



    As far as comparing what they did to other crimes. Remember, the penal law in this country (at the Federal level and the state level) classify levels of felonies and misdemeanors because some criminal activity is not as serious as others. To call what they did vandalism is a bit inaccurate. In New York, you have either committed graffiti and/or criminal mischief. There are different degrees based on a number of factors, including but not limited to the amount of monetary damaged caused.



    Looking at this scenario, these little idiots were barely responsible for disorderly conduct (which is a violation, like a traffic ticket, and is not a crime). Monetary damage? Less than ten minutes to restore the item. So factor in ten minutes of the Apple employees time to this, ten minutes of his/her BS hourly wage will not get you up to criminal mischief.



    What they did was tedious and annoying. What the manager did was more than adequate on behalf of Apple (although totally useless). The damage, if any, was committed on a display model. Comparing the display model (not an actual retail box model) to a test driven porsche is overreaching. Comparing to allowing young kids to rape a 13 year old, get control of yourself.

    Since what they did amounts to a violation, a traffic ticket, will you tell the cop that pulls you over and let's you go that what he just did amounts to letting someone get away with rape because they have an otherwise clean record? Apples and oranges, people.
  • Reply 44 of 82
    knightlieknightlie Posts: 282member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by AtomicGarden View Post


    oh my.... why not throw them in prison, send them to a boot camp or let his holiness mr steve jobs I torture them personally... - in twenty years time they might become one of those famous examples: "thrown out by apple, employed by whoever - millionaires today"...



    apple is going all nuts - as much as I love my iPod and Mac, I don't agree with Apples philosophy of doing business at all - they are becoming worse than Microsoft in more and more cases...



    Even without the hyperbole you're just wrong. And how the heck did you get Microsoft into this? Does Bill Gates go around photographing and banning hackers or something? Do you agree with M$ business practices of copying two-year old tech and claiming it as their own "innovation?"



    as for these irritating teens, if I walk into a store and take all the products off the shelves and lay them out on the floor, the shop has every right to evict me, ban me and even call the police, as I'm probably breaking some kind of law. The fact that the products can be easily picked up and put back on the shelf - kind of like the iPhone being restored - is irrelevant. You don't go into a shop and screw up the products, and you certainly don't vandalise electronic goods like an iPhone and not expect punishment.



    If these were plain, simple vandals everyone would agree with the manager, but as they are "hackers," people seem to think we should bow down to their superior skilz and all that BS. Good riddance to them, it's a pity they weren't arrested.
  • Reply 45 of 82
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by nasdarq View Post


    Looks very dodgy indeed. And apart from the photo story, it seems as if a private company (not the State) has prosecuted those kids and imposed some kind of a "vertical" penalty (no visit to Apple stores for life!!!), which also applies "horizontally" (in all jurisdictions ...). Or is this some kind of a bizarre "exclusion clause" if we approach the matter from the purely contract law point of view? But contracts have to be negotiated and entered into in the first place, and the exclusion clauses have to be properly brought to the attention and to be "reasonable" ... This is so disputable. But I don't think those kids will go to court now will they? At the end of the day, one must admit that Apple may have well started a criminal complaint against the kids, which they didn't. So it's probably just a trade-off, after all.



    There is no meeting of the minds as far as referring to any type of contract law here. Taking pictures of the two kids is not "further" commercial activity, but to protect their physical property from further damage by these individuals. The damage is seriously minor. Vertical and horizontal penalties don't apply here since this is a private business. They can only be complainants, not prosecutors of this activity (other than being plaintiffs in a civil action to recover damages). There is no condition that would permit Apple's counsel to appointed as special prosecutor because the state/city/municipality is unable to proceed. I fail to see the "prosecution" here. Are you a first year?
  • Reply 46 of 82
    knightlieknightlie Posts: 282member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by cnocbui View Post


    To use a photo of someone, or in which a person appears and is identifiable, for commercial purposes, don't you need a model release signed by the person/s in the photograph?



    I am not a lawyer, but Apple engages in commercial enterprise and if it is using images of these two as part of furthering its commercial activities...



    They aren't furthering commercial activities using these photos. How does banning a couple of dumb hackers from a store equate to that?





    Quote:
    Originally Posted by winterspan View Post


    All of you defending this Apple store employee remind me just how many nutjobs there are in the world. The kids didn't "vandalize" anything you old stiffs. They simply visited a webpage that exploited a bug that then allowed them to download a 3rd party game. The manager is obviously some incompetent lunatic that completely *overreacted* for the situation. If he was one of my employees, he would have been fired on the spot. In fact, being so obviously devoid of judgment, he would have never been hired in the first place.



    I think you can cross "Store Manager" off your list off potential employment options.



    Quote:

    Let's get some perspective, here. There is ABSOLUTELY ZERO permanent consequences of what the kids were doing --- It's all a bunch of ones and zeros being moved about.

    And it's not as if the kids set the phone to display explicit porno to other customers --- they downloaded a race-car game for god sakes. Should the kids be doing that on the iPhones in the store? Probably not. Does that mean they should be chased down the street and interrogated by police? Obviously, anyone with a functioning cerebrum wouldn't think so. If the apple store manager didn't want third party games on the iPhone, he could have restored the demo unit in about 3 minutes. I hope this idiot lost his job.



    They messed up the phones and left them requiring maintenance to get working again. There are many crimes in the world whose consequences can be corrected, with varying levels of ease - do you think those crimes should be rescinded? Or do you just want to come on here and call everyone childish names if they don't agree with you?



    Someone drew a line up the side of my car a couple of years ago. It was fairly easy to clean off, and there was no harm done, but whoever did it was guilty of vandalism, pure and simple, and if the opportunity arose I'd be more than happy for them to be punished. Presumably you'd just let them walk away? Unless it was your own car, of course, or your own iPhone, in which case you'd be singing a very different tune.



    One problem with the world today is that more and more crimes are becoming "acceptable" - usually motoring offences, but increasingly of types of crime. The level of "acceptable crime" - which in itself in an oxymoron, IMO - keeps rising. "Hey, it's only a phone, Apple has loads more of them."
  • Reply 47 of 82
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Panu View Post


    I think Apple's reaction was entirely appropriate. Anyone who goes into any store and vandalizes the merchandise should expect the same treatment. There are actual monetary damages, because they have to pay an employee to fix the phone, just as they would have to pay someone to clean graffiti off the wall, so the kids are lucky that Apple was kind enough not to press charges. I wouldn't be surprised at all if the pictures are really sent around to all the stores, because they may repeat the behavior, especially since they have a cheering section in these comments. I doubt Apple will make good on their threat to make it a lifetime ban.



    Pay some to fix it?!? Laughing there is some there getting paid to fix something some kid or adult has messed up on a minute by minute basis. As a Apple employee (Mac Genius) we hear about such things all the time and think.. huh I guess there is a bit more work to do. As far as the manager pulling this stunt: here is a little break down for you. IT'S RETAIL. When have you not met a store manager with a GOD complex. Just as the Mall of Georgia and 5th ave store both managers have this "I am GOD there for you are nothing because I am a store manager of a retail store." So yea the chasing down and the long winded talk was nothing more than transference of the manager getting yell at by his/her boss and taking it out on some kids. As far as the ban, yea not going to happen. On a side note this store is one of the worse stores in the company. Yea it's our little secret. This manager is nothing more than a sad excuse for someone who can't move into a real position. Management is nothing more than a bully pulpit, which sadly is needed in the retail store. So thank you dear store manager for proving a point, about retail.
  • Reply 48 of 82
    Granted, we're all expecting that 3G iPhone then, but keep in mind that Apple's end-of-quarter is June 30th, so all the deals that the company needs to make have to be made then. So yeah, makes sense that nobody is allowed to take vacations during that block of time.

    This is also the reason the big Student-push is happening before July.

    Yeah, we love Apple and their innovative products, but they're a big company like any other looking to make as much money as possible - this drives further development and keeps them in the black!
  • Reply 49 of 82
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Professor P View Post


    \



    I hate to break this to you, but people do this to display computers all the time - change the backgrounds, set passwords, etc. Display units get reset a lot.



    And that makes it okay to do? Because other people do it "all the time." Gimme a break.



    For the few of you who happen to think that it's okay to go into someone else's place of business and "hack" the computers, whether they're display or not, please post your business address so that I can come by and hack yours. You shouldn't mind, since it's all just good natured fun.



    Even if it only takes 10 mins to restore an iPhone as someone pointed out, that's 10 mins of an employee's time that the company has to pay for.



    Now, just so I don't sound to self-righteous, it occurred to me in the early days of iPhone hacking that going to the jailbreak website with a display model would be humorous, until my maturity response kicked back in and realized it was just the wrong thing to do.



    edit:



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by ncee View Post


    Hey leave your MBP, iPhone, iPod around, that them pick it up and FU$%#*CK around with it, and then tell me you are ok with it … NOT!



    Read your post after mine. We're on the same page.
  • Reply 50 of 82
    ameristamerist Posts: 77member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by AppleInsider View Post


    Though its long been a given that the 3G iPhone will likely include traditional GSP functionality...



    What is GSP?
  • Reply 51 of 82
    macinthe408macinthe408 Posts: 1,050member
    Quote:

    filming outside the Apple Store Fifth Avenue in Manhattan was indeed tied to the upcoming 3G iPhone launch



    Geezus, you guys are funny. Why don't you guys point out what isn't purportedly tied to Apple 3G's phone launch!?



    I ate at the BJ's Brewery by the Apple HQ the other day in Cupertino, and saw a bunch of Apple engineers sitting at an outside table.



    The abundance of Apple engineers at one establishment...must be tied to the upcoming 3G iPhone launch.
  • Reply 52 of 82
    rbonnerrbonner Posts: 635member
    The photo that was published looks way more polished than a shot of criminals on the street, more of a head shot, like it was planned.
  • Reply 53 of 82
    I can't believe some people on this forum don't understand the difference between hacking someone else's phone and using a demo model at a store. Now, I've never used an iPhone at an apple store, but I have used the demo models of many different computers there and then must use something like net-restore, ccc, etc to re-image the machines every night or possibly more often. People are always screwing up the hardware on display. This is normal and to be expected. The models on display are for playing with. If something breaks then you just replace it with a spare from the back room and re-image it. 15 minutes later everything is back to normal. If these two kids had hacked someone's personal iPhone then they should be arrested, but using a demo model to do anything should be allowed.



    --laurence
  • Reply 54 of 82
    irelandireland Posts: 17,798member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by jawporta View Post


    So Gay, and I mean Gay in the non homophobic way.



    Oh grow up.
  • Reply 55 of 82
    thttht Posts: 5,349member
    If you read the Palo Alto article, which has a different tone than the Appleinsider "summary", it appears the one Apple Store manager overreacted. If I may read between the lines, the manager was on a bit of power trip. In this particular case, the kids weren't doing much wrong, and the Apple Store manager calling the police and having them detain the kids for 2 hours for an "admonishment" is way over the top. In this particular case, the worst the kids should have experienced is being kicked out of the store for the day.



    In general though, teens are criminally stupid. They can explore all they want, but if they start doing things outside of accepted behavior, such as vandalism, yeah, they should be punished.
  • Reply 56 of 82
    esxxiesxxi Posts: 75member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by nasdarq View Post


    Absolutely. The sickness of grandeur. Among few examples:

    - Opening iTunes to .mp3 but not .avi - don't you see a paradox there as both are formats for 'stolen' playbacks?

    - Quicktime - who the hell uses it anyway?

    - Disgrace with not fully enabling all Bluetooth capabilities on iPhone - that could give so much more to a user (apart from the downside of being attacked by proximity advertising messages).

    - Tying all their machines to Safari - which sucks more and more to compare with its counterparts (have switched to Firefox since 2 years now, and never going back).

    - Their increasing distrust of all innovation by Adobe and Google (apart from allowing youtube on iPhone, ironically - since youtube is also by an large only a bazaar of 'illegal' uploads).

    The list can go on and on.



    This literally made me face-palm. None of these made any sense related to who you quoted and the majority of them are just baseless whining concerning what you think Apple should be doing or are just plain wrong.



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by steviet02 View Post


    Apparently you have no idea what you are talking about. Some of the best 'hackers' in the world have been caught, sentenced to jail and upon their release are hired by companies and sometimes the government in order to lead their cyber security groups. I'm not comparing these kids to some of the worlds best hackers, but to say that all security experts are clean, you're wrong.



    Script-kiddies ≠ Hackers.
  • Reply 57 of 82
    sdbryansdbryan Posts: 351member
    If they took a screwdriver to an iPhone and started cutting wires this might not be so absurd. They did NOT vandalize any merchandise. They did show how much cooler the iPhone will be in a few weeks when Apple corrects their initial blunder of assuming all worthwhile ideas will come from Apple. They made the same sort of blunder with the Lisa and weren't able to recover from it in time with third party apps. If you are an Apple shareholder you can only hope that the iPhone won't be rendered passé by third party apps on Android.



    The other possibility which might be an issue is whether the parents of these teen-agers from Palo Alto are both rich and pissed off. The manager ran down the street and dragged the kids back into the store over this incident? Have you heard of false imprisonment? They didn't shoplift or vandalize anything. If they were my kids I can guarantee I would be talking to a lawyer about bringing action. They were tinkering with a display model which was on display for people to tinker with and see how it operates. I know the store employees aren't exactly Apple engineers but this level of stupidity reflects poorly on Apple.
  • Reply 58 of 82
    felix01felix01 Posts: 294member
    I don't see this is much different than potential customers browsing web sites in the store and bookmarking them...only to be erased when the machines are returned to "stock" configuration during the after-hours restore process.



    The manager's actions were dumber than dirt and he should have been the one sanctioned.



    As articulated above, the store units are there for customers to tinker with. No foul as long as they can be restored at day's end.
  • Reply 59 of 82
    nofeernofeer Posts: 2,427member
    apple has the right to protect its products, remember wouldn't someone else "demo" the phone as well, it's apple's store. then have them buy it walk out the store then do it. also it wouldn't take no time for them to put their video exploits on youtube or myspace to gloat. it's apples store so good for them....protect their product and send a message.
  • Reply 60 of 82
    areseearesee Posts: 776member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Felix01 View Post


    I don't see this is much different than potential customers browsing web sites in the store and bookmarking them...only to be erased when the machines are returned to "stock" configuration during the after-hours restore process.



    The manager's actions were dumber than dirt and he should have been the one sanctioned.



    As articulated above, the store units are there for customers to tinker with. No foul as long as they can be restored at day's end.



    There is a great deal of difference between the acts. Allowing a potential customer to add Safari bookmarks is a demonstration of the devices functions and capabilities. What the kids did was to alter the functionality of the iPhone. It no longer was the device that Apple was selling. That is their crime, altering a merchants wares into a product that is not being offered.



    For all of you who think that this is ok, do you think it is acceptable to go around adding files and apps to display computers? Or do you think that some is ok (Firefox for example) and others are not (porn screen savers)?
Sign In or Register to comment.