I doubt it would be because they are "behind the ball" so much as there are different factors affecting each's talk time perhaps?
You miss the point entirely. If Nokia can get 3G to be 70% of 2G talk taime, why can Apple only get 50% of 2G talk time? The answer, probably because their analog engineering is not as good as Nokia's.
It's got nothing to do with the fact that 3G is more power hungry that 2G, we know that, its to do with the choices Apple have made and the designs they use.
You miss the point entirely. If Nokia can get 3G to be 70% of 2G talk taime, why can Apple only get 50% of 2G talk time? The answer, probably because their analog engineering is not as good as Nokia's.
You make a valid point but I think we have to wait until independent parties test it before we make a decision. Remember, Apple now uses a more "real world" metric than others hat may affect the battery usage numbers.
Besides that, there is no doubt that Nokia can rings around Apple when it comes to 3G radio optimization. They won't have their first one out for over a month. I wonder if they we'll see any noticeable improvements with subsequent firmware updates.
That's a bit of what I was thinking. There haven't been any for sale for maybe a month already.
It also sucks because I have a flight that day and I was hoping to travel with it. I might be able to get it earlier, but I have to leave for the airport at 9. That doesn't leave much time to get it, have it activated and sync it before leaving. Worse, my thinking is it may be sold out quickly. They have the release the thing on a fucking Friday?
You miss the point entirely. If Nokia can get 3G to be 70% of 2G talk taime, why can Apple only get 50% of 2G talk time? The answer, probably because their analog engineering is not as good as Nokia's.
It's got nothing to do with the fact that 3G is more power hungry that 2G, we know that, its to do with the choices Apple have made and the designs they use.
The example you linked to has a talk time of 3.5 hours GSM and 2.5 hours 3G. The ratio doesn't enter into it, in my opinion, because all the Nokias I've been in contact with in later years have had atrocious battery life.
I I might be able to get it earlier, but I have to leave for the airport at 9. That doesn't leave much time to get it, have it activated and sync it before leaving. Worse, my thinking is it may be sold out quickly. They have the release the thing on a fucking Friday?
I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but last year's iPhone was released on a Friday @5pm in each time zone. I postponed a several month trip to Asia last year as long as I could to get it but had to leave the week before it came out. Sucked for me too, though I did get the lower price when I returned.
The ratio doesn't enter into it, in my opinion, because all the Nokias I've been in contact with in later years have had atrocious battery life.
These could be different things. The Nokia phones in question may have had heavily used batteries, old tech batteries and/or small capacity batteries. We need to see how much power is required to run a 3G radio while surfing the internet for x amount of time to make a determination on way or the other.
I just did a quick comparison check with a few SonyEricsson 3G phones, and they seem to have a 3G talk time of about 30% to 40% of the GSM talk time. And their GSM talk time is comparable to the IPhones 10 hours. So I think the case here is more that Nokias GSM optimization is god awful, not that Apples 3G optimization is lacking.
However, final judgement will have to wait untill we get real life numbers.
These could be different things. The Nokia phones in question may have had heavily used batteries, old tech batteries and/or small capacity batteries. We need to see how much power is required to run a 3G radio while surfing the internet for x amount of time to make a determination on way or the other.
I should add that I work tech suport for a mobile phone operator, so the number of phones I've been in contact with is larger than most people. It's still anecdotal evidence, and should be regarded as such, but I think Nokias numbers speak for themselves. 3.5 hours GSM? That is not anywhere near acceptable. The N73 as 4.5 hours. The N95 has 6.5 hours GSM and 3 hours 3G. This is not something to be lauded, regardless of ratio.
I just did a quick comparison check with a few SonyEricsson 3G phones, and they seem to have a 3G talk time of about 30% to 40% of the GSM talk time. And their GSM talk time is comparable to the IPhones 10 hours. So I think the case here is more that Nokias GSM optimization is god awful, not that Apples 3G optimization is lacking.
However, final judgement will have to wait untill we get real life numbers.
I think it would be interesting to compare battery sizes for each of the phones in question. The Nokia's battery is 900mAh, have you got a reference link for the SE phones?
The example you linked to has a talk time of 3.5 hours GSM and 2.5 hours 3G. The ratio doesn't enter into it, in my opinion, because all the Nokias I've been in contact with in later years have had atrocious battery life.
The ratio is the whole point because it's independent of the size of the battery. Sheesh.
is larger than most people. It's still anecdotal evidence, and should be regarded as such, but I think Nokias numbers speak for themselves. 3.5 hours GSM? That is not anywhere near acceptable. The N73 as 4.5 hours. The N95 has 6.5 hours GSM and 3 hours 3G. This is not something to be lauded, regardless of ratio.
You have a valid point as well. At very least, Nokia really should up the battery capacity or battery technology to allow for longer talk times.
I'm not sure how common it is these days, but cell manufacturers would release a very small battery to report the weigh and thickness, but then have a fat battery pack option that stated a much higher talk time.
I should add that I work tech suport for a mobile phone operator, so the number of phones I've been in contact with is larger than most people. It's still anecdotal evidence, and should be regarded as such, but I think Nokias numbers speak for themselves. 3.5 hours GSM? That is not anywhere near acceptable. The N73 as 4.5 hours. The N95 has 6.5 hours GSM and 3 hours 3G. This is not something to be lauded, regardless of ratio.
Obviously it depends on the size of the phone and it's a trade-off you can't escape. Bigger phones generally have better talk time. N95 and iPhones are much bigger than the Nokia 6620c.
You have a valid point as well. At very least, Nokia really should up the battery capacity or battery technology to allow for longer talk times.
I'm not sure how common it is these days, but cell manufacturers would release a very small battery to report the weigh and thickness, but then have a fat battery pack option that stated a much higher talk time.
I disagree. I want a really small, light phone and I don't care that much about talk time. You're looking at it from one side. If you don't talk on the phone a lot, but you want to have one handy without it getting in the way, then you're going to be like me.
Different battery sizes wen out long ago. Where have you been! Maybe there is the odd model around today but I can't think of one.
Yes, it's true, it's not much thicker, but the battery life isn't fantastically better, only about 25% on 2G. Still 10 hours is pretty good talk time. But Apple have done a pretty poor job of the 3G talk time. A comparable phone like the Nokia 6220 Classic has a 3G/2G ratio of 70%, while Apple's is 50%. Goes to show that Apple is behind the 8 ball when it comes to analog and RF design.
You are comparing apples and oranges. Unless both phones were being equally tested in the same location, under the same conditions, at the same time, there is no way that one can make a comparison.
"Battery Life (iPhone)
2G: eight hours of talk time, up to 250 hours of standby, six hours of internet use, seven hours of video playback, and up to 24 hours of audio playback.
3G: up to five hours of talk time using 3G, or 10 hours using 2G, standby is 300 hours, five hours of 3G internet use and six hours of Wi-Fi internet use, seven hours of video playback and up to 24 hours of audio playback." http://techdigest.tv/2008/06/first_generatio.html
v.s. as you referenced for the Nokia: GSM: up to 3.5 hours vs WCDMA: up to 2.5 hours; but then you have a giant screen to contend with which makes that 8 ball look so small.
The ratio is the whole point because it's independent of the size of the battery. Sheesh.
While it seems it unfathomable to me that Nokia would fail at optimizing GSM, we don't have any way of testing this until we can get some battery stats.
Either way, it looks like you and Blütnerd are about to go toe to toe in an assumptive argument that will yield no results. Anyone here no how to break down battery stats into real world figures? I don't have a clue!
Quote:
Originally Posted by merdhead
Different battery sizes wen out long ago. Where have you been!
I go under hot sleep with Somec between keynotes. It's only been 2 weeks for me since the Motorola StarTAC came out. (I'll be suprised if anyone gets that without googling it)
I should add that I work tech suport for a mobile phone operator, so the number of phones I've been in contact with is larger than most people. It's still anecdotal evidence, and should be regarded as such, but I think Nokias numbers speak for themselves. 3.5 hours GSM? That is not anywhere near acceptable. The N73 as 4.5 hours. The N95 has 6.5 hours GSM and 3 hours 3G. This is not something to be lauded, regardless of ratio.
While it seems it unfathomable to me that Nokia would fail at optimizing GSM, we don't have any way of testing this until we can get some battery stats.
Either way, it looks like you and Blütnerd are about to go toe to toe in an assumptive argument that will yield no results. Anyone here no how to break down battery stats into real world figures? I don't have a clue!
I go under hot sleep with Somec between keynotes. It's only been 2 weeks for since the Motorola StarTAC came out. (I'll be suprised if anyone gets that without googling it)
As we do in medicine. Double-blind tral conducted at the same time. Perhaps using, as Apple does outline better than most, if not the best, other companies, the protocol as outlined on the iPhone Tech Specs, e.g.,
Talk time: Testing conducted by Apple in May and June 2008 using preproduction iPhone 3G units and software. iPhone 3G units were connected to a 1900MHz network or a 2100MHz network. All settings were default except: Call Forwarding was turned on; the Wi-Fi feature Ask to Join Networks was turned off. Wi-Fi was enabled but not associated with a network. Battery life depends on the mobile network, location, signal strength, feature configuration, usage, and many other factors. Battery tests are conducted using specific iPhone units; actual results may vary.
Standby time: Testing conducted by Apple in May and June 2008 using preproduction iPhone 3G units and software. All settings were default except: Call Forwarding was turned on; the Wi-Fi feature Ask to Join Networks was turned off. Wi-Fi was enabled but not associated with a network. Battery life depends on the mobile network, location, signal strength, feature configuration, usage, and many other factors. Battery tests are conducted using specific iPhone units; actual results may vary.
Internet use over 3G: Testing conducted by Apple in May and June 2008 using preproduction iPhone 3G units and software. Internet over 3G tests were conducted over a 1900MHz 3G network using dedicated web and mail servers, browsing snapshot versions of 20 popular web pages, and receiving mail once an hour. All settings were default except: Call Forwarding was turned on; the Wi-Fi feature Ask to Join Networks and Auto-Brightness were turned off. Wi-Fi was enabled but not associated with a network. Battery life depends on the mobile network, location, signal strength, 3G connectivity, feature configuration, usage, and many other factors. Battery tests are conducted using specific iPhone units; actual results may vary.
Internet use over Wi-Fi: Testing conducted by Apple in May and June 2008 using preproduction iPhone 3G units and software. Internet over Wi-Fi tests were conducted using a closed network and dedicated web and mail servers, browsing snapshot versions of 20 popular web pages, and receiving mail once an hour. All settings were default except: Call Forwarding was turned on; the Wi-Fi feature Ask to Join Networks and Auto-Brightness were turned off; WPA2 encryption was enabled. Battery life depends on the mobile network, location, signal strength, Wi-Fi connectivity, feature configuration, usage, and many other factors. Battery tests are conducted using specific iPhone units; actual results may vary.http://www.apple.com/uk/iphone/specs.html
Comments
Thicker is not better. It's a negative. You like having your phone bigger?
It is 0.02 inches, i.e., 0.508 mm, thicker. So what is the problem?
Just a note to the Canadians that apple.ca says that the iPhone will be coming to both Rogers and Fido, which was previously unannounced.
http://www.apple.com/ca/iphone/buy/
Rogers owns FIDO.
I doubt it would be because they are "behind the ball" so much as there are different factors affecting each's talk time perhaps?
You miss the point entirely. If Nokia can get 3G to be 70% of 2G talk taime, why can Apple only get 50% of 2G talk time? The answer, probably because their analog engineering is not as good as Nokia's.
It's got nothing to do with the fact that 3G is more power hungry that 2G, we know that, its to do with the choices Apple have made and the designs they use.
You miss the point entirely. If Nokia can get 3G to be 70% of 2G talk taime, why can Apple only get 50% of 2G talk time? The answer, probably because their analog engineering is not as good as Nokia's.
You make a valid point but I think we have to wait until independent parties test it before we make a decision. Remember, Apple now uses a more "real world" metric than others hat may affect the battery usage numbers.
Besides that, there is no doubt that Nokia can rings around Apple when it comes to 3G radio optimization. They won't have their first one out for over a month. I wonder if they we'll see any noticeable improvements with subsequent firmware updates.
That's a bit of what I was thinking. There haven't been any for sale for maybe a month already.
It also sucks because I have a flight that day and I was hoping to travel with it. I might be able to get it earlier, but I have to leave for the airport at 9. That doesn't leave much time to get it, have it activated and sync it before leaving. Worse, my thinking is it may be sold out quickly. They have the release the thing on a fucking Friday?
AHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!
You miss the point entirely. If Nokia can get 3G to be 70% of 2G talk taime, why can Apple only get 50% of 2G talk time? The answer, probably because their analog engineering is not as good as Nokia's.
It's got nothing to do with the fact that 3G is more power hungry that 2G, we know that, its to do with the choices Apple have made and the designs they use.
The example you linked to has a talk time of 3.5 hours GSM and 2.5 hours 3G. The ratio doesn't enter into it, in my opinion, because all the Nokias I've been in contact with in later years have had atrocious battery life.
I I might be able to get it earlier, but I have to leave for the airport at 9. That doesn't leave much time to get it, have it activated and sync it before leaving. Worse, my thinking is it may be sold out quickly. They have the release the thing on a fucking Friday?
I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but last year's iPhone was released on a Friday @5pm in each time zone. I postponed a several month trip to Asia last year as long as I could to get it but had to leave the week before it came out. Sucked for me too, though I did get the lower price when I returned.
The ratio doesn't enter into it, in my opinion, because all the Nokias I've been in contact with in later years have had atrocious battery life.
These could be different things. The Nokia phones in question may have had heavily used batteries, old tech batteries and/or small capacity batteries. We need to see how much power is required to run a 3G radio while surfing the internet for x amount of time to make a determination on way or the other.
However, final judgement will have to wait untill we get real life numbers.
These could be different things. The Nokia phones in question may have had heavily used batteries, old tech batteries and/or small capacity batteries. We need to see how much power is required to run a 3G radio while surfing the internet for x amount of time to make a determination on way or the other.
I should add that I work tech suport for a mobile phone operator, so the number of phones I've been in contact with is larger than most people. It's still anecdotal evidence, and should be regarded as such, but I think Nokias numbers speak for themselves. 3.5 hours GSM? That is not anywhere near acceptable. The N73 as 4.5 hours. The N95 has 6.5 hours GSM and 3 hours 3G. This is not something to be lauded, regardless of ratio.
I just did a quick comparison check with a few SonyEricsson 3G phones, and they seem to have a 3G talk time of about 30% to 40% of the GSM talk time. And their GSM talk time is comparable to the IPhones 10 hours. So I think the case here is more that Nokias GSM optimization is god awful, not that Apples 3G optimization is lacking.
However, final judgement will have to wait untill we get real life numbers.
I think it would be interesting to compare battery sizes for each of the phones in question. The Nokia's battery is 900mAh, have you got a reference link for the SE phones?
The example you linked to has a talk time of 3.5 hours GSM and 2.5 hours 3G. The ratio doesn't enter into it, in my opinion, because all the Nokias I've been in contact with in later years have had atrocious battery life.
The ratio is the whole point because it's independent of the size of the battery. Sheesh.
is larger than most people. It's still anecdotal evidence, and should be regarded as such, but I think Nokias numbers speak for themselves. 3.5 hours GSM? That is not anywhere near acceptable. The N73 as 4.5 hours. The N95 has 6.5 hours GSM and 3 hours 3G. This is not something to be lauded, regardless of ratio.
You have a valid point as well. At very least, Nokia really should up the battery capacity or battery technology to allow for longer talk times.
I'm not sure how common it is these days, but cell manufacturers would release a very small battery to report the weigh and thickness, but then have a fat battery pack option that stated a much higher talk time.
I should add that I work tech suport for a mobile phone operator, so the number of phones I've been in contact with is larger than most people. It's still anecdotal evidence, and should be regarded as such, but I think Nokias numbers speak for themselves. 3.5 hours GSM? That is not anywhere near acceptable. The N73 as 4.5 hours. The N95 has 6.5 hours GSM and 3 hours 3G. This is not something to be lauded, regardless of ratio.
Obviously it depends on the size of the phone and it's a trade-off you can't escape. Bigger phones generally have better talk time. N95 and iPhones are much bigger than the Nokia 6620c.
You have a valid point as well. At very least, Nokia really should up the battery capacity or battery technology to allow for longer talk times.
I'm not sure how common it is these days, but cell manufacturers would release a very small battery to report the weigh and thickness, but then have a fat battery pack option that stated a much higher talk time.
I disagree. I want a really small, light phone and I don't care that much about talk time. You're looking at it from one side. If you don't talk on the phone a lot, but you want to have one handy without it getting in the way, then you're going to be like me.
Different battery sizes wen out long ago. Where have you been! Maybe there is the odd model around today but I can't think of one.
Yes, it's true, it's not much thicker, but the battery life isn't fantastically better, only about 25% on 2G. Still 10 hours is pretty good talk time. But Apple have done a pretty poor job of the 3G talk time. A comparable phone like the Nokia 6220 Classic has a 3G/2G ratio of 70%, while Apple's is 50%. Goes to show that Apple is behind the 8 ball when it comes to analog and RF design.
Ref: http://www.forum.nokia.com/devices/6220_classic
Love to see your credentials.
You are comparing apples and oranges. Unless both phones were being equally tested in the same location, under the same conditions, at the same time, there is no way that one can make a comparison.
"Battery Life (iPhone)
2G: eight hours of talk time, up to 250 hours of standby, six hours of internet use, seven hours of video playback, and up to 24 hours of audio playback.
3G: up to five hours of talk time using 3G, or 10 hours using 2G, standby is 300 hours, five hours of 3G internet use and six hours of Wi-Fi internet use, seven hours of video playback and up to 24 hours of audio playback." http://techdigest.tv/2008/06/first_generatio.html
v.s. as you referenced for the Nokia: GSM: up to 3.5 hours vs WCDMA: up to 2.5 hours; but then you have a giant screen to contend with which makes that 8 ball look so small.
The ratio is the whole point because it's independent of the size of the battery. Sheesh.
While it seems it unfathomable to me that Nokia would fail at optimizing GSM, we don't have any way of testing this until we can get some battery stats.
Either way, it looks like you and Blütnerd are about to go toe to toe in an assumptive argument that will yield no results. Anyone here no how to break down battery stats into real world figures? I don't have a clue!
Different battery sizes wen out long ago. Where have you been!
I go under hot sleep with Somec between keynotes. It's only been 2 weeks for me since the Motorola StarTAC came out. (I'll be suprised if anyone gets that without googling it)
I should add that I work tech suport for a mobile phone operator, so the number of phones I've been in contact with is larger than most people. It's still anecdotal evidence, and should be regarded as such, but I think Nokias numbers speak for themselves. 3.5 hours GSM? That is not anywhere near acceptable. The N73 as 4.5 hours. The N95 has 6.5 hours GSM and 3 hours 3G. This is not something to be lauded, regardless of ratio.
Even worse. N95, GSM up to 4 hours and WCDMS up to 2.7 hours. http://www.forum.nokia.com/devices/N95
While it seems it unfathomable to me that Nokia would fail at optimizing GSM, we don't have any way of testing this until we can get some battery stats.
Either way, it looks like you and Blütnerd are about to go toe to toe in an assumptive argument that will yield no results. Anyone here no how to break down battery stats into real world figures? I don't have a clue!
I go under hot sleep with Somec between keynotes. It's only been 2 weeks for since the Motorola StarTAC came out. (I'll be suprised if anyone gets that without googling it)
As we do in medicine. Double-blind tral conducted at the same time. Perhaps using, as Apple does outline better than most, if not the best, other companies, the protocol as outlined on the iPhone Tech Specs, e.g.,
Talk time: Testing conducted by Apple in May and June 2008 using preproduction iPhone 3G units and software. iPhone 3G units were connected to a 1900MHz network or a 2100MHz network. All settings were default except: Call Forwarding was turned on; the Wi-Fi feature Ask to Join Networks was turned off. Wi-Fi was enabled but not associated with a network. Battery life depends on the mobile network, location, signal strength, feature configuration, usage, and many other factors. Battery tests are conducted using specific iPhone units; actual results may vary.
Standby time: Testing conducted by Apple in May and June 2008 using preproduction iPhone 3G units and software. All settings were default except: Call Forwarding was turned on; the Wi-Fi feature Ask to Join Networks was turned off. Wi-Fi was enabled but not associated with a network. Battery life depends on the mobile network, location, signal strength, feature configuration, usage, and many other factors. Battery tests are conducted using specific iPhone units; actual results may vary.
Internet use over 3G: Testing conducted by Apple in May and June 2008 using preproduction iPhone 3G units and software. Internet over 3G tests were conducted over a 1900MHz 3G network using dedicated web and mail servers, browsing snapshot versions of 20 popular web pages, and receiving mail once an hour. All settings were default except: Call Forwarding was turned on; the Wi-Fi feature Ask to Join Networks and Auto-Brightness were turned off. Wi-Fi was enabled but not associated with a network. Battery life depends on the mobile network, location, signal strength, 3G connectivity, feature configuration, usage, and many other factors. Battery tests are conducted using specific iPhone units; actual results may vary.
Internet use over Wi-Fi: Testing conducted by Apple in May and June 2008 using preproduction iPhone 3G units and software. Internet over Wi-Fi tests were conducted using a closed network and dedicated web and mail servers, browsing snapshot versions of 20 popular web pages, and receiving mail once an hour. All settings were default except: Call Forwarding was turned on; the Wi-Fi feature Ask to Join Networks and Auto-Brightness were turned off; WPA2 encryption was enabled. Battery life depends on the mobile network, location, signal strength, Wi-Fi connectivity, feature configuration, usage, and many other factors. Battery tests are conducted using specific iPhone units; actual results may vary. http://www.apple.com/uk/iphone/specs.html