But do you get unlimited data (access via browser to the Internet) on your Verizon plan? The $30 is for unlimited data. The $30 is for access to the Internet. Repeat: The $30 is for unlimited data.
When a person was paying for cable TV, did he expect the cable company to throw in unlimited data (access to the Internet) for free? After all, it comes in via the same wire. (And wby not unlimited voice as well; it comes through the same wire, doesn't it?)
(By the way, SMS (and MMS) is a cellular data technology. I know users could care less, but it really is not related to the Internet.)
Hey, I was fully expecting to pay more for an iPhone cell plan. I understand data costs more. I had no problems with the 1G iPhone plans. $109 a month for 2 lines, 700 min, and 200 text messages sounded quite reasonable to me.
It looks like the individual text messaging plans are available. That makes an iPhone plan with 2 lines and 200 text messages apiece starting at ~$140. That is still a good $30 more then the 1G iPhone plan to keep the same amount of text messages, no minutes increases, etc. Only real benefit is 3G data. Is that really worth $30 more or $15 extra per phone over the old iPhone plan? To me, no.
Well AT&T, you just made my decision for me. No new iPhone 3G for me.
We were all set to upgrade my iPhone to the new one and my wife was going to take the old one.
In today's day and age of WiFi, I don't need your beloved 3G speeds that bad. I'll go find a Panera's or Arby's with Free WiFi if I'm out and need to surf at a decent speed.
Hey KindredMac, not to be mean, but Panera and Arby's? Those are the 20-something business major's version of the mall food court. Try a real restaurant with wi fi next time.
You know, I don't see an asterisk or subtitle. Maybe this is suable? They're really doing a bait and switch on the pricing.
If I remember correctly, AT&T press release less than 2 hours after the keynotes clarified that the $199 price is only with a 2 years contract. Furthermore, everyone knew that the $199 price is applied only for with 2 years contract since Apple also sold the 1st generation iPhone with the same contract.
individual iPhone users upgrading to the 3G model will find themselves paying between 12.5% and 25% more to maintain the same level of service. [/url][/c]
Really? First generation iPhone users enjoyed a 3G level of service?
If 3G was more expensive, and therefore required a higher fee, then the fee should be only in the monthy bill,
Because you say so?
Another wannabe dictator who thinks everyone in the world should run their business plans past him for approval.
When you have your own telecomm company, you'll get to make those decisions. You'll also discover that people who don't work for you are not obligated to dance just because you call the tune.
In the meantime, if you don't like the cost of SMS, don't use it.
You don't need to send SMS messages from an iPhone. You can use email, which is much more powerful. Try sending an SMS message to someone on a PC or a Mac or an online service and see what happens.
Furthermore, once you've subscribed to the data plan, email messages are free.
If choose to pay for SMS messages instead of using email, you have only yourself to blame. SMS messaging is a tax on stupidity, like state lotteries.
Quote:
Originally Posted by echosonic
As soon as voice-over-IP is up and running on the iPhone, I will hack it
Please spell the word correctly. You don't mean "hack," you mean "steal."
"Hacker" used to mean a computer programmer, not a cyberthief. Calling yourself a hacker because you steal from AT&T may sound cool but it doesn't make you any better than the guy who stuffs a box of twinkies down his pants at the grocery store.
Its rather dramatic to call it stealing. Since you go into it knowing what it costs.
Figuratively speaking TenoBell, figuratively speaking. Of course they aren't actually stealing since you signed up for it. And yes, you go into to it knowingly but that does not excuse them from abusing their position. I have no choice but to pay for the service if I need it. What's the alternative?
Charging for text messaging isn't stealing? Exactly how much bandwidth does a text message consume? I already have a data plan so why charge an additional fee for text messaging? Because they can get away with it. That's why, and yes it IS stealing. Furthermore, this reasoning that it is OK to charge whatever "because everyone else is charging the same" is just criminals supporting other criminals.
Haaa, criminals is a bit dramatic too isn't? What do you call it? Standard business practices? You know, at one time it was standard to use slaves to do the work for you. Yes I know, I'm dramatic! Maybe I just see as it is.
This is precisely the reason why I will NOT be getting an iPhone just to deal with AT&Ts bullcrap! I am probably going to piss off people ion this board but I hope Apple suffers from this exclusive deal so they me able to learn from their mistake. They could really wipe the map with customers if they opened up their iphone to more carriers.
at this point, Apple may not have a choice. We don't know the nature of the deal they made with ATT but it is possible that it was made in such a way that there would be huge penalties for trying to get out of it early. not unlike how we service subscribers are treated. only instead of $200, it could be more like $2 billion.
and in the end, can we really say that Verizon, T-Mobile etc wouldn't treat us just the same for an iphone plan. do you really think they would just keep everything the same as their 'normal' phones and not have cancellation fees, upgrade fees and so on. they could end up being just as bad as ATT if they had the chance.
You know, I would have had no problem paying $500.00 or even $600.00 for the 3G iPhone. What tics me off is that we were told by Apple that a 16 G 3G iPhone was being sold for $299.00.
and if you go into an Apple store to buy your 16 Gig phone you will likely pay that plus tax. because the rest of the money will be charged to you by ATT, not Apple.
my trouble is with ATT's math. the idea here is supposed to be that those in the early stages of a contract haven't bought back their 'free' phone, right. but some folks will be one month in, others 23 months in. and not everyone is using the same phone. so why is everyone paying the same amount. that is what the extra money is for. to pay off our old phones. the $200 early termination/failure to gain service fee is the rest of the $399/499 cost of the phone.
Figuratively speaking TenoBell, figuratively speaking. Of course they aren't actually stealing since you signed up for it. And yes, you go into to it knowingly but that does not excuse them from abusing their position. I have no choice but to pay for the service if I need it. What's the alternative?.
If you think its too much, don't pay for it. Its as simple as that.
This is because the IM client is always running in the background waiting for the next message.
Apple will not allow apps to run in the background and drain battery life. Instead Apple will have a push service for apps that need to send messages to the iPhone.
From the responses on this thread, it seems that people are very excited about the new iPhone 3G, however it seems to be a common feeling of disgust towards at&t.
I for one have switched to at&t from t-mo b/c of this phone; I still love the phone after 1 year. And just like everyone else I was excited about the new model, however I cannot go past the at&t's malicious business practices.
All their little charges makes me sick! Shame on you at&t!
I will probably wait for my contract to end and hopefully by then an truly unlocked version is out and t-mo will be updating their 10-year old plans/services.
You do realize that you can use the 1st gen iPhone on TMobile no problem right? You did not have to switch to AT&T. Let your contract run out then go back to Tmobile. Search the web to find out how to do it.
In comparing the current Verizon PDA/SmartPhone plans to AT&T it turns out they no longer include texting either in the base plans and you buy texting blocks similar to AT&T's pricing.
There is a "bundled" plan but that's nothing more than $20 for unlimited texting a month.
and in the end, can we really say that Verizon, T-Mobile etc wouldn't treat us just the same for an iphone plan. do you really think they would just keep everything the same as their 'normal' phones and not have cancellation fees, upgrade fees and so on. they could end up being just as bad as ATT if they had the chance.
This is the point I think most people miss when they bash the AT&T / iPhone deal.
Yes, having a choice of AT&T, T-Mobile or Verizon might help with coverage areas for some people. Granted.
It also could result in better choice and better pricing for iPhone customers. Past history doesn't suggest that, however. Try buying a new cell phone today -- any cell phone.
Do all the carriers push you into a 2 year deal? Yes.
Are your monthly fees higher than what you would like? Yes.
Do they nickle and dime you for every little thing (web, texting, roaming, video, music)? Yes.
Do they cripple your phone, and charge you extra for features the hardware already has? Yes.
So how would life with Verizon or T-Mobile be any better?
Do all the carriers push you into a 2 year deal? Yes.
Are your monthly fees higher than what you would like? Yes.
Do they nickle and dime you for every little thing (web, texting, roaming, video, music)? Yes.
Do they cripple your phone, and charge you extra for features the hardware already has? Yes.
All of which, except maybe the second point (we can always want things for cheaper than it would be reasonable to expect those things to be supplied), are symptoms that the cellular service is not operating within a true free market. The providers are free to act like a cartel or oligopoly.
One thing that the people comparing the new plan fees with Verizon, et al have missed is that many iPhone customers, myself included, were not willing to pay the higher prices of other carriers before the iPhone launch last summer. If it means a cost structure like the new plan to get a smartphone, or no smartphone at all, I'll have no smartphone. When the iPhone came out the monthly cost was just low enough for me to bite, as I am just a casual user of most of those features. At $60-70 a month, OK, I'll do it, but $100 or more? No thanks.
It's all about the value to me - yeah, the iPhone is slick, and sure, the easy access to the web and my email is nice, but it's not life-changing. If I feel like I'm getting gouged, and the new plan prices (along will all of the plan prices for other carriers) make me feel that way, I simply won't pay it, and will drop the service when the time comes that I'd have to upgrade.
It doesn't help that my customer service and call quality experience with AT&T has been abysmal. I can see a cell tower from my second-story window, it's less than a mile away, and I still have a nearly 100% drop rate in my house. That never happened with Verizon in the years I had it before the iPhone.
It will be interesting to see how the next year (until my iPhone contract is up) plays out. Will something in the 2.0 firmware be so awesome that it's a must-have for me? Perhaps, but I doubt it. Will I find some killer app that I simply must have? Maybe, we'll see. Apple appeared to have embraced a market of more casual users with last year's pricing - sure, we're Apple geeks so we'll pay a lot for hardware that we perceive to be better, but don't want to get soaked on monthly service charges. If they no longer embrace that market, that market will go elsewhere.
Are your monthly fees higher than what you would like? Yes.
This is not quite how the issue should be phrased. Most of us would like to pay nothing. The real issue is whether the prices charged are fair for the services delivered. That;'s a much tougher one. Some of AT&Ts fees seem out of line, however using this criterion, especially the fees for text messages.
Comments
To chrisgeleven:
But do you get unlimited data (access via browser to the Internet) on your Verizon plan? The $30 is for unlimited data. The $30 is for access to the Internet. Repeat: The $30 is for unlimited data.
When a person was paying for cable TV, did he expect the cable company to throw in unlimited data (access to the Internet) for free? After all, it comes in via the same wire. (And wby not unlimited voice as well; it comes through the same wire, doesn't it?)
(By the way, SMS (and MMS) is a cellular data technology. I know users could care less, but it really is not related to the Internet.)
Hey, I was fully expecting to pay more for an iPhone cell plan. I understand data costs more. I had no problems with the 1G iPhone plans. $109 a month for 2 lines, 700 min, and 200 text messages sounded quite reasonable to me.
It looks like the individual text messaging plans are available. That makes an iPhone plan with 2 lines and 200 text messages apiece starting at ~$140. That is still a good $30 more then the 1G iPhone plan to keep the same amount of text messages, no minutes increases, etc. Only real benefit is 3G data. Is that really worth $30 more or $15 extra per phone over the old iPhone plan? To me, no.
Well AT&T, you just made my decision for me. No new iPhone 3G for me.
We were all set to upgrade my iPhone to the new one and my wife was going to take the old one.
In today's day and age of WiFi, I don't need your beloved 3G speeds that bad. I'll go find a Panera's or Arby's with Free WiFi if I'm out and need to surf at a decent speed.
Hey KindredMac, not to be mean, but Panera and Arby's? Those are the 20-something business major's version of the mall food court. Try a real restaurant with wi fi next time.
You know, I don't see an asterisk or subtitle. Maybe this is suable? They're really doing a bait and switch on the pricing.
If I remember correctly, AT&T press release less than 2 hours after the keynotes clarified that the $199 price is only with a 2 years contract. Furthermore, everyone knew that the $199 price is applied only for with 2 years contract since Apple also sold the 1st generation iPhone with the same contract.
All of that before product release.
individual iPhone users upgrading to the 3G model will find themselves paying between 12.5% and 25% more to maintain the same level of service. [/url][/c]
Really? First generation iPhone users enjoyed a 3G level of service?
Details, please.
If 3G was more expensive, and therefore required a higher fee, then the fee should be only in the monthy bill,
Because you say so?
Another wannabe dictator who thinks everyone in the world should run their business plans past him for approval.
When you have your own telecomm company, you'll get to make those decisions. You'll also discover that people who don't work for you are not obligated to dance just because you call the tune.
In the meantime, if you don't like the cost of SMS, don't use it.
You don't need to send SMS messages from an iPhone. You can use email, which is much more powerful. Try sending an SMS message to someone on a PC or a Mac or an online service and see what happens.
Furthermore, once you've subscribed to the data plan, email messages are free.
If choose to pay for SMS messages instead of using email, you have only yourself to blame. SMS messaging is a tax on stupidity, like state lotteries.
As soon as voice-over-IP is up and running on the iPhone, I will hack it
Please spell the word correctly. You don't mean "hack," you mean "steal."
"Hacker" used to mean a computer programmer, not a cyberthief. Calling yourself a hacker because you steal from AT&T may sound cool but it doesn't make you any better than the guy who stuffs a box of twinkies down his pants at the grocery store.
Its rather dramatic to call it stealing. Since you go into it knowing what it costs.
Figuratively speaking TenoBell, figuratively speaking. Of course they aren't actually stealing since you signed up for it. And yes, you go into to it knowingly but that does not excuse them from abusing their position. I have no choice but to pay for the service if I need it. What's the alternative?
Charging for text messaging isn't stealing? Exactly how much bandwidth does a text message consume? I already have a data plan so why charge an additional fee for text messaging? Because they can get away with it. That's why, and yes it IS stealing. Furthermore, this reasoning that it is OK to charge whatever "because everyone else is charging the same" is just criminals supporting other criminals.
Haaa, criminals is a bit dramatic too isn't? What do you call it? Standard business practices? You know, at one time it was standard to use slaves to do the work for you. Yes I know, I'm dramatic! Maybe I just see as it is.
This is precisely the reason why I will NOT be getting an iPhone just to deal with AT&Ts bullcrap! I am probably going to piss off people ion this board but I hope Apple suffers from this exclusive deal so they me able to learn from their mistake. They could really wipe the map with customers if they opened up their iphone to more carriers.
at this point, Apple may not have a choice. We don't know the nature of the deal they made with ATT but it is possible that it was made in such a way that there would be huge penalties for trying to get out of it early. not unlike how we service subscribers are treated. only instead of $200, it could be more like $2 billion.
and in the end, can we really say that Verizon, T-Mobile etc wouldn't treat us just the same for an iphone plan. do you really think they would just keep everything the same as their 'normal' phones and not have cancellation fees, upgrade fees and so on. they could end up being just as bad as ATT if they had the chance.
You know, I would have had no problem paying $500.00 or even $600.00 for the 3G iPhone. What tics me off is that we were told by Apple that a 16 G 3G iPhone was being sold for $299.00.
and if you go into an Apple store to buy your 16 Gig phone you will likely pay that plus tax. because the rest of the money will be charged to you by ATT, not Apple.
my trouble is with ATT's math. the idea here is supposed to be that those in the early stages of a contract haven't bought back their 'free' phone, right. but some folks will be one month in, others 23 months in. and not everyone is using the same phone. so why is everyone paying the same amount. that is what the extra money is for. to pay off our old phones. the $200 early termination/failure to gain service fee is the rest of the $399/499 cost of the phone.
Figuratively speaking TenoBell, figuratively speaking. Of course they aren't actually stealing since you signed up for it. And yes, you go into to it knowingly but that does not excuse them from abusing their position. I have no choice but to pay for the service if I need it. What's the alternative?.
If you think its too much, don't pay for it. Its as simple as that.
This is because the IM client is always running in the background waiting for the next message.
Apple will not allow apps to run in the background and drain battery life. Instead Apple will have a push service for apps that need to send messages to the iPhone.
Now that's genius.
From the responses on this thread, it seems that people are very excited about the new iPhone 3G, however it seems to be a common feeling of disgust towards at&t.
I for one have switched to at&t from t-mo b/c of this phone; I still love the phone after 1 year. And just like everyone else I was excited about the new model, however I cannot go past the at&t's malicious business practices.
All their little charges makes me sick! Shame on you at&t!
I will probably wait for my contract to end and hopefully by then an truly unlocked version is out and t-mo will be updating their 10-year old plans/services.
You do realize that you can use the 1st gen iPhone on TMobile no problem right? You did not have to switch to AT&T. Let your contract run out then go back to Tmobile. Search the web to find out how to do it.
http://www.google.com/mobile/apple/talk/
I think it's outrageous to charge for texting. Should be unlimited and included in every plan. Then I stumbled upon this little diddy for iPhone...
http://www.google.com/mobile/apple/talk/
In comparing the current Verizon PDA/SmartPhone plans to AT&T it turns out they no longer include texting either in the base plans and you buy texting blocks similar to AT&T's pricing.
There is a "bundled" plan but that's nothing more than $20 for unlimited texting a month.
and in the end, can we really say that Verizon, T-Mobile etc wouldn't treat us just the same for an iphone plan. do you really think they would just keep everything the same as their 'normal' phones and not have cancellation fees, upgrade fees and so on. they could end up being just as bad as ATT if they had the chance.
This is the point I think most people miss when they bash the AT&T / iPhone deal.
Yes, having a choice of AT&T, T-Mobile or Verizon might help with coverage areas for some people. Granted.
It also could result in better choice and better pricing for iPhone customers. Past history doesn't suggest that, however. Try buying a new cell phone today -- any cell phone.
Do all the carriers push you into a 2 year deal? Yes.
Are your monthly fees higher than what you would like? Yes.
Do they nickle and dime you for every little thing (web, texting, roaming, video, music)? Yes.
Do they cripple your phone, and charge you extra for features the hardware already has? Yes.
So how would life with Verizon or T-Mobile be any better?
Do all the carriers push you into a 2 year deal? Yes.
Are your monthly fees higher than what you would like? Yes.
Do they nickle and dime you for every little thing (web, texting, roaming, video, music)? Yes.
Do they cripple your phone, and charge you extra for features the hardware already has? Yes.
All of which, except maybe the second point (we can always want things for cheaper than it would be reasonable to expect those things to be supplied), are symptoms that the cellular service is not operating within a true free market. The providers are free to act like a cartel or oligopoly.
It's all about the value to me - yeah, the iPhone is slick, and sure, the easy access to the web and my email is nice, but it's not life-changing. If I feel like I'm getting gouged, and the new plan prices (along will all of the plan prices for other carriers) make me feel that way, I simply won't pay it, and will drop the service when the time comes that I'd have to upgrade.
It doesn't help that my customer service and call quality experience with AT&T has been abysmal. I can see a cell tower from my second-story window, it's less than a mile away, and I still have a nearly 100% drop rate in my house. That never happened with Verizon in the years I had it before the iPhone.
It will be interesting to see how the next year (until my iPhone contract is up) plays out. Will something in the 2.0 firmware be so awesome that it's a must-have for me? Perhaps, but I doubt it. Will I find some killer app that I simply must have? Maybe, we'll see. Apple appeared to have embraced a market of more casual users with last year's pricing - sure, we're Apple geeks so we'll pay a lot for hardware that we perceive to be better, but don't want to get soaked on monthly service charges. If they no longer embrace that market, that market will go elsewhere.
Are your monthly fees higher than what you would like? Yes.
This is not quite how the issue should be phrased. Most of us would like to pay nothing. The real issue is whether the prices charged are fair for the services delivered. That;'s a much tougher one. Some of AT&Ts fees seem out of line, however using this criterion, especially the fees for text messages.