Did you read my post? When you have your own handset you can get cheaper monthly costs for the same tarrif, this is because the carriers are not having to factor in the price of the handset.
Look at Optus for their iPhone plans in Australia. They start at $19 per month, but all their plans do not include the iPhone, you have to buy that separately and it will cost you $600 to buy, but they will fianance it for you so on a 12 month contract the 8GB will cost you an extra $50 a month on top of your tarrif.
We were talking about AT&T and Apple in the US. I cannot talk about the rest of the world because I have no idea how things work there. In the US, AT&T is not charging the 3G iPhone users more than what they usually charge for any other phone. If you disagree (regarding AT&T) please show me the link were AT&T is offering reduced price of their plans for people without contract. Otherwise, you are the one who have no idea what you are talking about.
We were talking about AT&T and Apple in the US. I cannot talk about the rest of the world because I have no idea how things work there. In the US, AT&T is not charging the 3G iPhone users more than what they usually charge for any other phone. If you disagree (regarding AT&T) please show me the link were AT&T is offering reduced price of their plans for people without contract. Otherwise, you are the one who have no idea what you are talking about.
But with other phones AT&T also do things the same way, you pay a portion of the phones worth upfront and the rest of the cost of the phone in hidden in your monthly payments.
Why do you think they make you sign a 24 month contract? It is because they need to make sure you pay them back the money they have spent on the handset.
In other countries they are much more transparent about all of this, most consumers fully understand they are not really getting a cheap phone, they know they are paying the full amount but just spread over the cost of the contract. It aint rocket science, it is just business.
I just looked at a Blackberry Curve on AT&T, $399 retail but they are selling for $149 on a 24 month contract. Do you really think they are selling a $399 BB for $149?
The truth of the matter certainly lies in the much more transparent sale of an 8GB iPhone on Optus in Australia. They do not insult the intelligence of their customers by even trying to pretend the iPhone is free or cheap. They are selling it for $600 on a 1 yr contract with $19 per month tarrifs. Increase your tarrif's and they will then start to "subsidize" the iphone slightly, but overall you will still be paying your $600 no matter which way it is hidden.
But with other phones AT&T also do things the same way, you pay a portion of the phones worth upfront and the rest of the cost of the phone in hidden in your monthly payments.
Why do you think they make you sign a 24 month contract? It is because they need to make sure you pay them back the money they have spent on the handset.
In other countries they are much more transparent about all of this, most consumers fully understand they are not really getting a cheap phone, they know they are paying the full amount but just spread over the cost of the contract. It aint rocket science, it is just business.
I just looked at a Blackberry Curve on AT&T, $399 retail but they are selling for $149 on a 24 month contract. Do you really think they are selling a $399 BB for $149?
The truth of the matter certainly lies in the much more transparent sale of an 8GB iPhone on Optus in Australia. They do not insult the intelligence of their customers by even trying to pretend the iPhone is free or cheap. They are selling it for $600 on a 1 yr contract with $19 per month tarrifs. Increase your tarrif's and they will then start to "subsidize" the iphone slightly, but overall you will still be paying your $600 no matter which way it is hidden.
It all depends on the market. In other countries competition and market capacity might force them to go this way. The reason, at least in the US, they discounting phones for 2 years contract is to increase their network efficiency and make sure they have steady income for the contract duration.
This example was by my economics professor more than 10 years ago. If a wireless company have a capacity of 100,000 subscriber and the operation cost for running the network is $100,000/month. If they have 1 subscriber then they need to charge the user $100,000 to cover their operating cost. If they have 100,000 subscriber then they need $1 from each subscriber. Got it?
There are more than 300 million people in the US. AT&T, Verizon, T-Mobile, and other US carriers want more subscribers because then they can score more profit and be able to reduce what they charge for their services if they have to. Based on what they charge for the BB and the iPhone plans ($69 X 24 = $1656/contract min.) they can afford to trim their gross revenue per subscriber by $200 to $400 if some decide to stay with them after contract expiration.
And how many times to I have to say this "WITH AT&T YOU PAY THE SAME MONTHLY FEES WHETHER YOU SIGNED A CONTRACT OR NOT". I don't know what is so hard to understand here.
I hope it's OK to ask this question, and I'm not sure where else to post it. I'm new to Macs (Mac Pro...LOVING it!) and am excited to get an iPhone (and a new MBP when they come out this fall). However, I do not want to spend the extra $$$$ I will have to spend this Friday if it turns out a new 32 GB version is expected anytime "soon."
I had no idea I'd go Mac, and so I bought a new phone (I've always been an AT&T customer) 4 months ago. Well...who knew? So here I am with a new Mac Pro, wanting an iPhone and MBP.
I'm willing to bite the bullet and pay the extra $$$$ to get out of my current contract and switch to the iPhone, but I will be really ticked off if a new, 32 GB model is offered a few months down the road. I'm already waiting for the new form MBPs; I could wait for the 32 GB iPhone too. Thing is, I can't determine if this is a "hope" rumor, or fairly serious. And, being new to the Apple word, it's still a bit much for me to have a sense of these things.
Can anyone help me out here? I'm not looking for guaranties, really, but honest assessments of how Apple does things and it's production schedule. I read recently that the only reason the iPod Touch has 32 GB is because it has two slots instead of the iPhone's one. If we don't expect a 32 GB iPhone for a year or more, I'd be more willing to buy now and make my world "Mac only"! :-)
Thank you for any help, advice, or pointing me to reliable "industry pundits."
We know that, but why spend $200 or $400 more for the handset if you are just going to keep it on EDGE? Since all iPhones will have v2.0 does that price really justify 25% longer 2G talk time, GPS, and possibly better reception? I'd rather add a Mophie Juice Pack for 16 hours of talk time and a much lower price than you'd have to pay for a 3G iPhone.
I don't expect to pay that much. I'm waiting for the AT&T exclusivity to expire to get my phone through TMobile. Probably subsidized as well but I'm more than happy to extend my contract with them since they've kept me happy for over 4 years now.
I'm quite sure TMobile won't be the only carrier to get the new iPhone. I hope a lot of carriers do. More iPhones sold. Point is that if people really do not want to deal with AT&T they just need a little bit more patience. Things are about to change soon.
I'm looking at the GPS mostly since I'm always on a motorcycle and love it. And the battery life is already being reported as quite bad with 3G. This was expected. 2G is just fine with me. The increased Wifi reception is also yummy to me.
Ahhh...the apologists have arrived. Now a major market analyst has said the exact same thing I have. But it doesn't matter. We should pay more, and Apple/AT&T are right. Gotcha.
I really don't think Apple can tell carriers what to charge customers. They did their part to lower the price.
I don't expect to pay that much. I'm waiting for the AT&T exclusivity to expire to get my phone through TMobile. Probably subsidized as well but I'm more than happy to extend my contract with them since they've kept me happy for over 4 years now.
I'm quite sure TMobile won't be the only carrier to get the new iPhone. I hope a lot of carriers do. More iPhones sold. Point is that if people really do not want to deal with AT&T they just need a little bit more patience. Things are about to change soon.
I'm looking at the GPS mostly since I'm always on a motorcycle and love it. And the battery life is already being reported as quite bad with 3G. This was expected. 2G is just fine with me. The increased Wifi reception is also yummy to me.
Because of the channel differences and the rumour that the contract is for 5 years I don't see T-Mobile USA getting the iPhone from Apple. And I don't see a CDMA coming either, sooner or later.
The truth of the matter certainly lies in the much more transparent sale of an 8GB iPhone on Optus in Australia. They do not insult the intelligence of their customers by even trying to pretend the iPhone is free or cheap. They are selling it for $600 on a 1 yr contract with $19 per month tarrifs. Increase your tarrif's and they will then start to "subsidize" the iphone slightly, but overall you will still be paying your $600 no matter which way it is hidden.
But the aussies also have the most complex plans to obscure your so-called transparent handset price. Even the most intelligent people are having a hard time trying to understand the plans ---- and people are putting up spreadsheets in order to do so.
Any time they are doing monthly payment of handset --- they are not telling you the financing rate. They are selling you a $50 plan with a call value of $300 --- that's insulting people's intelligence. That's like buying a diamond ring for $1000 but the gem certificate says that it has a "replacement value" of $2000.
They do not insult the intelligence of their customers by even trying to pretend the iPhone is free or cheap.
Offering an product that is in some way financed isn't done to insult customers, it'd done to make it more immediately affordable to more people. How many nice cars would people drive if they had to pay for them in full at the time of purchase. The subsidy for cell phones works the same way, but I think the few people here that don't understand how it works are drowning out everyone else who understands the financing behind it.
Offering an product that is in some way financed isn't done to insult customers, it'd done to make it more immediately affordable to more people. How many nice cars would people drive if they had to pay for them in full at the time of purchase. The subsidy for cell phones works the same way, but I think the few people here that don't understand how it works are drowning out everyone else who understands the financing behind it.
You misunderstood what I was saying.
I know exactly why a phone is financed and why it is such a good thing for consumers. What I was saying is that at least in Australia you know your iPhone is costing you $50 per month for the handset plus your calling plan on top. Nobody here is laboring under the misconception that they are getting a free iPhone.
The comment before about Apple not dictating sales prices and at least they have done the right thing by cutting the cost makes no sense unless Apple really is selling the iPhone to the carriers for less money that before.
Not only was I once the sales director of a mobile phone retailer I have also worked for 2 different mobile phone networks.
MY whole point is that no the iPhone is not costing you $199 and by saying it was now half price is very misleading. The iPhone is $729 with no contract in Australia, and even allowing for the tiny difference in exchange rates and tax this is still a $500-$600 dollar phone in the US and you are paying for it regardless of your down payment being only $199.
But the aussies also have the most complex plans to obscure your so-called transparent handset price. Even the most intelligent people are having a hard time trying to understand the plans ---- and people are putting up spreadsheets in order to do so.
Any time they are doing monthly payment of handset --- they are not telling you the financing rate. They are selling you a $50 plan with a call value of $300 --- that's insulting people's intelligence. That's like buying a diamond ring for $1000 but the gem certificate says that it has a "replacement value" of $2000.
I agree that Aussie calling plans are useless, stupid gimmicks designed to fool people into thinking they are getting more value. But this is different.
On Optus the price of the iPhone is not hidden in the calling plans, you pay two different charges to Optus when you take out a contract for the iPhone. On the lowest tarrif you pay $19pm for your call plan, this is on a 12 month contract. Then the second charge is for the iPhone itself, $49 per month for the same 12 months.
So for year 1 you pay a total of $68 per month for the 8GB iPhone. After 12 months are up you will then only need to pay $19 per month as your iPhone is paid for and now yours. So you have paid $600 just for the iPhone.
I know exactly why a phone is financed and why it is such a good thing for consumers. What I was saying is that at least in Australia you know your iPhone is costing you $50 per month for the handset plus your calling plan on top. Nobody here is laboring under the misconception that they are getting a free iPhone.
The comment before about Apple not dictating sales prices and at least they have done the right thing by cutting the cost makes no sense unless Apple really is selling the iPhone to the carriers for less money that before.
Not only was I once the sales director of a mobile phone retailer I have also worked for 2 different mobile phone networks.
MY whole point is that no the iPhone is not costing you $199 and by saying it was now half price is very misleading. The iPhone is $729 with no contract in Australia, and even allowing for the tiny difference in exchange rates and tax this is still a $500-$600 dollar phone in the US and you are paying for it regardless of your down payment being only $199.
I gotcha, but I don't think it's misleading. One of the major issues was the high initial price. it seems many people can't and most people prefer not pay for items up front. In the US, if you buy an iPhone at AT&T for any price between $199—$699 you still get the same service plan. There is no service agreement discount for having paid the full retail price for the iPhone so buying it at $199 is half the price it costs to walk out of the store with an activated iPhone 3G. The prices AT&T is setting has no relevance since it's the same no matter what you pay for a 3G iPhone. Since you say people realize that what a subsidization is (though I have my doubts after reading AI articles over the last 2 months) then they should know that they aren't getting tricked as there is no way to buy the device without being made aware of the contractual obligation. It's in the contract, the CSR will inform you and both AT&T and Apple have it plastered on their websites.
Now, if you want to talk TOC, the iPhone 3G is more than the iPhone 2G on AT&T or last month. However, I think that even activating an original iPhone on AT&T will require you to get the $30 month data plan with no included SMS. I'd even like it to be law that the TOC for contracts to be clearly given to customers at the time of purchase.
I agree that Aussie calling plans are useless, stupid gimmicks designed to fool people into thinking they are getting more value. But this is different.
On Optus the price of the iPhone is not hidden in the calling plans, you pay two different charges to Optus when you take out a contract for the iPhone. On the lowest tarrif you pay $19pm for your call plan, this is on a 12 month contract. Then the second charge is for the iPhone itself, $49 per month for the same 12 months.
So for year 1 you pay a total of $68 per month for the 8GB iPhone. After 12 months are up you will then only need to pay $19 per month as your iPhone is paid for and now yours. So you have paid $600 just for the iPhone.
From a consumer's point of view --- they shouldn't care if the $600 handset price is obscure. They should really care about the $1400-1800 monthly plan that has obscure pricing.
The US system has 2 advantages:
(1) AT&T doesn't create another set of price plans for the iphone --- it is the combination of a regular priced voice plan with a regular priced sms plan with a regular priced PDA data plan. There is nothing non-transparent about the AT&T iphone plan.
(2) buckets of minutes is a lot more easier to compare prices among carriers. There is no need for spreadsheets.
I found your view to be penny wise and dollar stupid. This is about cheap razor and expensive razor blades. Cheap inkjet printers and expensive ink.
I find it interesting that all of the people bitching and moaning and using words like "outrageous", "con", "illegal monopoly", etc haven't commented ONCE on my last post where I clearly layed out the logical nature of the iPhone's pricing, subsidy, and contract plans. Apparently, people just want to vent emotions instead of actually debating with facts and rational arguments..
Because of the channel differences and the rumour that the contract is for 5 years I don't see T-Mobile USA getting the iPhone from Apple. And I don't see a CDMA coming either, sooner or later.
There are also rumors that the contract was closer to two years.
Channel differences won't stop the iPhone from going to other carriers at all. It will be done.
There are also rumors that the contract was closer to two years.
But the 5 year timeframe seems more likey as it's what a Verizon exec stated. The 2 year contract is more likely a confusion about the user contract length with AT&T and Apple's contract length with AT&T. It may be shorter or longer than 5 years but 5 years seems the most likely with the evidence at hand.
Quote:
Channel differences won't stop the iPhone from going to other carriers at all. It will be done.
You do know this requires a UMTS HW and firmware update, right?
But the 5 year timeframe seems more likey as it's what a Verizon exec stated. The 2 year contract is more likely a confusion about the user contract length with AT&T and Apple's contract length with AT&T. It may be shorter or longer than 5 years but 5 years seems the most likely with the evidence at hand.
No proof either way. Although 2 years is the most popular rumor. A Verizon exec isn't privy to AT&T and Apple negotiations.
Quote:
You do know this requires a UMTS HW and firmware update, right?
You do realize that Apple wouldn't dream of limiting it's potential customer base to just one carrier for too long don't you? Whatever it takes it will be done. Too many limitations on Apple's potential profit to be available just on AT&T here for much longer.
No proof either way. Although 2 years is the most popular rumor. A Verizon exec isn't privy to AT&T and Apple negotiations.
You do realize that Apple wouldn't dream of limiting it's potential customer base to just one carrier for too long don't you? Whatever it takes it will be done. Too many limitations on Apple's potential profit to be available just on AT&T here for much longer.
I'd say the 2 year is more desired, by the 5 year is more popular in terms of rationale.
If Apple wanted to go with multiple versions of the iPhone you have to ask yourself two questions
1) Why they didn't do that to begin with?
2) If they wanted to test in the US first (possible answer for #1), then why didn't they release a CDMA version for other 300M CDMA using people out there?
I don't know what Apple has planned, but making multiple HW versions for different carriers just isn't Jobs style. I bet jobs already hates that keyboards need different layouts and power cords use different plugs across countries.
Comments
I am sorry but that is just total rubbish!!
Did you read my post? When you have your own handset you can get cheaper monthly costs for the same tarrif, this is because the carriers are not having to factor in the price of the handset.
Look at Optus for their iPhone plans in Australia. They start at $19 per month, but all their plans do not include the iPhone, you have to buy that separately and it will cost you $600 to buy, but they will fianance it for you so on a 12 month contract the 8GB will cost you an extra $50 a month on top of your tarrif.
We were talking about AT&T and Apple in the US. I cannot talk about the rest of the world because I have no idea how things work there. In the US, AT&T is not charging the 3G iPhone users more than what they usually charge for any other phone. If you disagree (regarding AT&T) please show me the link were AT&T is offering reduced price of their plans for people without contract. Otherwise, you are the one who have no idea what you are talking about.
We were talking about AT&T and Apple in the US. I cannot talk about the rest of the world because I have no idea how things work there. In the US, AT&T is not charging the 3G iPhone users more than what they usually charge for any other phone. If you disagree (regarding AT&T) please show me the link were AT&T is offering reduced price of their plans for people without contract. Otherwise, you are the one who have no idea what you are talking about.
But with other phones AT&T also do things the same way, you pay a portion of the phones worth upfront and the rest of the cost of the phone in hidden in your monthly payments.
Why do you think they make you sign a 24 month contract? It is because they need to make sure you pay them back the money they have spent on the handset.
In other countries they are much more transparent about all of this, most consumers fully understand they are not really getting a cheap phone, they know they are paying the full amount but just spread over the cost of the contract. It aint rocket science, it is just business.
I just looked at a Blackberry Curve on AT&T, $399 retail but they are selling for $149 on a 24 month contract. Do you really think they are selling a $399 BB for $149?
The truth of the matter certainly lies in the much more transparent sale of an 8GB iPhone on Optus in Australia. They do not insult the intelligence of their customers by even trying to pretend the iPhone is free or cheap. They are selling it for $600 on a 1 yr contract with $19 per month tarrifs. Increase your tarrif's and they will then start to "subsidize" the iphone slightly, but overall you will still be paying your $600 no matter which way it is hidden.
But with other phones AT&T also do things the same way, you pay a portion of the phones worth upfront and the rest of the cost of the phone in hidden in your monthly payments.
Why do you think they make you sign a 24 month contract? It is because they need to make sure you pay them back the money they have spent on the handset.
In other countries they are much more transparent about all of this, most consumers fully understand they are not really getting a cheap phone, they know they are paying the full amount but just spread over the cost of the contract. It aint rocket science, it is just business.
I just looked at a Blackberry Curve on AT&T, $399 retail but they are selling for $149 on a 24 month contract. Do you really think they are selling a $399 BB for $149?
The truth of the matter certainly lies in the much more transparent sale of an 8GB iPhone on Optus in Australia. They do not insult the intelligence of their customers by even trying to pretend the iPhone is free or cheap. They are selling it for $600 on a 1 yr contract with $19 per month tarrifs. Increase your tarrif's and they will then start to "subsidize" the iphone slightly, but overall you will still be paying your $600 no matter which way it is hidden.
It all depends on the market. In other countries competition and market capacity might force them to go this way. The reason, at least in the US, they discounting phones for 2 years contract is to increase their network efficiency and make sure they have steady income for the contract duration.
This example was by my economics professor more than 10 years ago. If a wireless company have a capacity of 100,000 subscriber and the operation cost for running the network is $100,000/month. If they have 1 subscriber then they need to charge the user $100,000 to cover their operating cost. If they have 100,000 subscriber then they need $1 from each subscriber. Got it?
There are more than 300 million people in the US. AT&T, Verizon, T-Mobile, and other US carriers want more subscribers because then they can score more profit and be able to reduce what they charge for their services if they have to. Based on what they charge for the BB and the iPhone plans ($69 X 24 = $1656/contract min.) they can afford to trim their gross revenue per subscriber by $200 to $400 if some decide to stay with them after contract expiration.
And how many times to I have to say this "WITH AT&T YOU PAY THE SAME MONTHLY FEES WHETHER YOU SIGNED A CONTRACT OR NOT". I don't know what is so hard to understand here.
Hey, all,
I hope it's OK to ask this question, and I'm not sure where else to post it. I'm new to Macs (Mac Pro...LOVING it!) and am excited to get an iPhone (and a new MBP when they come out this fall). However, I do not want to spend the extra $$$$ I will have to spend this Friday if it turns out a new 32 GB version is expected anytime "soon."
I had no idea I'd go Mac, and so I bought a new phone (I've always been an AT&T customer) 4 months ago. Well...who knew? So here I am with a new Mac Pro, wanting an iPhone and MBP.
I'm willing to bite the bullet and pay the extra $$$$ to get out of my current contract and switch to the iPhone, but I will be really ticked off if a new, 32 GB model is offered a few months down the road. I'm already waiting for the new form MBPs; I could wait for the 32 GB iPhone too. Thing is, I can't determine if this is a "hope" rumor, or fairly serious. And, being new to the Apple word, it's still a bit much for me to have a sense of these things.
Can anyone help me out here? I'm not looking for guaranties, really, but honest assessments of how Apple does things and it's production schedule. I read recently that the only reason the iPod Touch has 32 GB is because it has two slots instead of the iPhone's one. If we don't expect a 32 GB iPhone for a year or more, I'd be more willing to buy now and make my world "Mac only"! :-)
Thank you for any help, advice, or pointing me to reliable "industry pundits."
Best,
Keith
Anyone? Anyone? Beuller?
:-)
We know that, but why spend $200 or $400 more for the handset if you are just going to keep it on EDGE? Since all iPhones will have v2.0 does that price really justify 25% longer 2G talk time, GPS, and possibly better reception? I'd rather add a Mophie Juice Pack for 16 hours of talk time and a much lower price than you'd have to pay for a 3G iPhone.
I don't expect to pay that much. I'm waiting for the AT&T exclusivity to expire to get my phone through TMobile. Probably subsidized as well but I'm more than happy to extend my contract with them since they've kept me happy for over 4 years now.
I'm quite sure TMobile won't be the only carrier to get the new iPhone. I hope a lot of carriers do. More iPhones sold. Point is that if people really do not want to deal with AT&T they just need a little bit more patience. Things are about to change soon.
I'm looking at the GPS mostly since I'm always on a motorcycle and love it. And the battery life is already being reported as quite bad with 3G. This was expected. 2G is just fine with me. The increased Wifi reception is also yummy to me.
Ahhh...the apologists have arrived. Now a major market analyst has said the exact same thing I have. But it doesn't matter. We should pay more, and Apple/AT&T are right. Gotcha.
I really don't think Apple can tell carriers what to charge customers. They did their part to lower the price.
I don't expect to pay that much. I'm waiting for the AT&T exclusivity to expire to get my phone through TMobile. Probably subsidized as well but I'm more than happy to extend my contract with them since they've kept me happy for over 4 years now.
I'm quite sure TMobile won't be the only carrier to get the new iPhone. I hope a lot of carriers do. More iPhones sold. Point is that if people really do not want to deal with AT&T they just need a little bit more patience. Things are about to change soon.
I'm looking at the GPS mostly since I'm always on a motorcycle and love it. And the battery life is already being reported as quite bad with 3G. This was expected. 2G is just fine with me. The increased Wifi reception is also yummy to me.
Because of the channel differences and the rumour that the contract is for 5 years I don't see T-Mobile USA getting the iPhone from Apple. And I don't see a CDMA coming either, sooner or later.
The truth of the matter certainly lies in the much more transparent sale of an 8GB iPhone on Optus in Australia. They do not insult the intelligence of their customers by even trying to pretend the iPhone is free or cheap. They are selling it for $600 on a 1 yr contract with $19 per month tarrifs. Increase your tarrif's and they will then start to "subsidize" the iphone slightly, but overall you will still be paying your $600 no matter which way it is hidden.
But the aussies also have the most complex plans to obscure your so-called transparent handset price. Even the most intelligent people are having a hard time trying to understand the plans ---- and people are putting up spreadsheets in order to do so.
Any time they are doing monthly payment of handset --- they are not telling you the financing rate. They are selling you a $50 plan with a call value of $300 --- that's insulting people's intelligence. That's like buying a diamond ring for $1000 but the gem certificate says that it has a "replacement value" of $2000.
They do not insult the intelligence of their customers by even trying to pretend the iPhone is free or cheap.
Offering an product that is in some way financed isn't done to insult customers, it'd done to make it more immediately affordable to more people. How many nice cars would people drive if they had to pay for them in full at the time of purchase. The subsidy for cell phones works the same way, but I think the few people here that don't understand how it works are drowning out everyone else who understands the financing behind it.
Offering an product that is in some way financed isn't done to insult customers, it'd done to make it more immediately affordable to more people. How many nice cars would people drive if they had to pay for them in full at the time of purchase. The subsidy for cell phones works the same way, but I think the few people here that don't understand how it works are drowning out everyone else who understands the financing behind it.
You misunderstood what I was saying.
I know exactly why a phone is financed and why it is such a good thing for consumers. What I was saying is that at least in Australia you know your iPhone is costing you $50 per month for the handset plus your calling plan on top. Nobody here is laboring under the misconception that they are getting a free iPhone.
The comment before about Apple not dictating sales prices and at least they have done the right thing by cutting the cost makes no sense unless Apple really is selling the iPhone to the carriers for less money that before.
Not only was I once the sales director of a mobile phone retailer I have also worked for 2 different mobile phone networks.
MY whole point is that no the iPhone is not costing you $199 and by saying it was now half price is very misleading. The iPhone is $729 with no contract in Australia, and even allowing for the tiny difference in exchange rates and tax this is still a $500-$600 dollar phone in the US and you are paying for it regardless of your down payment being only $199.
But the aussies also have the most complex plans to obscure your so-called transparent handset price. Even the most intelligent people are having a hard time trying to understand the plans ---- and people are putting up spreadsheets in order to do so.
Any time they are doing monthly payment of handset --- they are not telling you the financing rate. They are selling you a $50 plan with a call value of $300 --- that's insulting people's intelligence. That's like buying a diamond ring for $1000 but the gem certificate says that it has a "replacement value" of $2000.
I agree that Aussie calling plans are useless, stupid gimmicks designed to fool people into thinking they are getting more value. But this is different.
On Optus the price of the iPhone is not hidden in the calling plans, you pay two different charges to Optus when you take out a contract for the iPhone. On the lowest tarrif you pay $19pm for your call plan, this is on a 12 month contract. Then the second charge is for the iPhone itself, $49 per month for the same 12 months.
So for year 1 you pay a total of $68 per month for the 8GB iPhone. After 12 months are up you will then only need to pay $19 per month as your iPhone is paid for and now yours. So you have paid $600 just for the iPhone.
I really don't think Apple can tell carriers what to charge customers. They did their part to lower the price.
Are Apple making less money for the iPhone 2.0 then? Do we know this is a fact?
You misunderstood what I was saying.
I know exactly why a phone is financed and why it is such a good thing for consumers. What I was saying is that at least in Australia you know your iPhone is costing you $50 per month for the handset plus your calling plan on top. Nobody here is laboring under the misconception that they are getting a free iPhone.
The comment before about Apple not dictating sales prices and at least they have done the right thing by cutting the cost makes no sense unless Apple really is selling the iPhone to the carriers for less money that before.
Not only was I once the sales director of a mobile phone retailer I have also worked for 2 different mobile phone networks.
MY whole point is that no the iPhone is not costing you $199 and by saying it was now half price is very misleading. The iPhone is $729 with no contract in Australia, and even allowing for the tiny difference in exchange rates and tax this is still a $500-$600 dollar phone in the US and you are paying for it regardless of your down payment being only $199.
I gotcha, but I don't think it's misleading. One of the major issues was the high initial price. it seems many people can't and most people prefer not pay for items up front. In the US, if you buy an iPhone at AT&T for any price between $199—$699 you still get the same service plan. There is no service agreement discount for having paid the full retail price for the iPhone so buying it at $199 is half the price it costs to walk out of the store with an activated iPhone 3G. The prices AT&T is setting has no relevance since it's the same no matter what you pay for a 3G iPhone. Since you say people realize that what a subsidization is (though I have my doubts after reading AI articles over the last 2 months) then they should know that they aren't getting tricked as there is no way to buy the device without being made aware of the contractual obligation. It's in the contract, the CSR will inform you and both AT&T and Apple have it plastered on their websites.
Now, if you want to talk TOC, the iPhone 3G is more than the iPhone 2G on AT&T or last month. However, I think that even activating an original iPhone on AT&T will require you to get the $30 month data plan with no included SMS. I'd even like it to be law that the TOC for contracts to be clearly given to customers at the time of purchase.
I agree that Aussie calling plans are useless, stupid gimmicks designed to fool people into thinking they are getting more value. But this is different.
On Optus the price of the iPhone is not hidden in the calling plans, you pay two different charges to Optus when you take out a contract for the iPhone. On the lowest tarrif you pay $19pm for your call plan, this is on a 12 month contract. Then the second charge is for the iPhone itself, $49 per month for the same 12 months.
So for year 1 you pay a total of $68 per month for the 8GB iPhone. After 12 months are up you will then only need to pay $19 per month as your iPhone is paid for and now yours. So you have paid $600 just for the iPhone.
From a consumer's point of view --- they shouldn't care if the $600 handset price is obscure. They should really care about the $1400-1800 monthly plan that has obscure pricing.
The US system has 2 advantages:
(1) AT&T doesn't create another set of price plans for the iphone --- it is the combination of a regular priced voice plan with a regular priced sms plan with a regular priced PDA data plan. There is nothing non-transparent about the AT&T iphone plan.
(2) buckets of minutes is a lot more easier to compare prices among carriers. There is no need for spreadsheets.
I found your view to be penny wise and dollar stupid. This is about cheap razor and expensive razor blades. Cheap inkjet printers and expensive ink.
Because of the channel differences and the rumour that the contract is for 5 years I don't see T-Mobile USA getting the iPhone from Apple. And I don't see a CDMA coming either, sooner or later.
There are also rumors that the contract was closer to two years.
Channel differences won't stop the iPhone from going to other carriers at all. It will be done.
Are Apple making less money for the iPhone 2.0 then? Do we know this is a fact?
How is that an issue? How much did people pay Apple for the old iPhone and how much are they paying Apple now?
There are also rumors that the contract was closer to two years.
But the 5 year timeframe seems more likey as it's what a Verizon exec stated. The 2 year contract is more likely a confusion about the user contract length with AT&T and Apple's contract length with AT&T. It may be shorter or longer than 5 years but 5 years seems the most likely with the evidence at hand.
Channel differences won't stop the iPhone from going to other carriers at all. It will be done.
You do know this requires a UMTS HW and firmware update, right?
But the 5 year timeframe seems more likey as it's what a Verizon exec stated. The 2 year contract is more likely a confusion about the user contract length with AT&T and Apple's contract length with AT&T. It may be shorter or longer than 5 years but 5 years seems the most likely with the evidence at hand.
No proof either way. Although 2 years is the most popular rumor. A Verizon exec isn't privy to AT&T and Apple negotiations.
You do know this requires a UMTS HW and firmware update, right?
You do realize that Apple wouldn't dream of limiting it's potential customer base to just one carrier for too long don't you? Whatever it takes it will be done. Too many limitations on Apple's potential profit to be available just on AT&T here for much longer.
No proof either way. Although 2 years is the most popular rumor. A Verizon exec isn't privy to AT&T and Apple negotiations.
You do realize that Apple wouldn't dream of limiting it's potential customer base to just one carrier for too long don't you? Whatever it takes it will be done. Too many limitations on Apple's potential profit to be available just on AT&T here for much longer.
I'd say the 2 year is more desired, by the 5 year is more popular in terms of rationale.
If Apple wanted to go with multiple versions of the iPhone you have to ask yourself two questionsI don't know what Apple has planned, but making multiple HW versions for different carriers just isn't Jobs style. I bet jobs already hates that keyboards need different layouts and power cords use different plugs across countries.