I'd say the 2 year is more desired, by the 5 year is more popular in terms of rationale.
If Apple wanted to go with multiple versions of the iPhone you have to ask yourself two questions
1) Why they didn't do that to begin with?
2) If they wanted to test in the US first (possible answer for #1), then why didn't they release a CDMA version for other 300M CDMA using people out there?
I don't know what Apple has planned, but making multiple HW versions for different carriers just isn't Jobs style. I bet jobs already hates that keyboards need different layouts and power cords use different plugs across countries.
But above all, Jobs likes to make money so you can bet he will make sure the iPhone works with as many carriers he can like all other smartphone makers.
I'm sure starting with just one carrier had more to do with a combination of not being taking seriously enough at first/ testing the waters. Both have been done successfully. The time is ripe for more progress.
Common sense tells me that if carriers were charging $5 to $10 extra per month on their plans, to pay for subsidizing a phone, that competition would kick in and some one would offer the same plan for less if you already own your own phone. But this is not the case. Nearly alll carriers charge about the same for comparable plans.
I think the carriers hope to recoup their cost of subsidizing because you are locked in as their customer for two years. And in those two years hey hope that you will spend more on "extras" than the cost of the subsidy.
Go over on your minutes several times in your two years and you wull most likely pay for half the subsidy. Specially if you have a teenager on the plan. Call 411 and it's a buck extra. Receive or send a photo and it's another buck. Text message, ringtones, download music, phone acessories and insurrance are all money makers for carriers.
Not to mention unused minutes. I bet most don;t come close to using all the minutes they pay for every month. And those that do, most likely will go over several times a year. Roll over minutes is just a way of keeping you as a customer. So you won't lose your saved minutes when signing with another carrier.
Plus as a customer you would most likely stick with thr same carrier when upgrading plans, adding data, adding another family member or renewing contract,
All carriers has to spend money to compete for new customers. And I don't see any carriers (here in the US) oferring cheaper monthly plans (without a subsidize phone) to attract new customers that already own a phone. And neither does the cost of your plan drop after your two year contract is up. Which is what you would expecr to happen if you were paying a hidden monthly fee for your subsidized phone. So I don't think the cost of the plan is what subsidizing the phone. The carriers already figured out that the average customer will pay for the subsidy (and more) with the "extras" they'll be spending as a customer in the next two years. And what benifits that may come along by having you as their customer.
So there is no gimmick. No lies. No BS. No hidden fees. The iPhone is $199 (in the US). The plan will cost you $70/month, It's the same $70/month you would pay if you got a free Sony/Ericsson. Pay $100 for a Nokia. Pay $299 for a Blackberry. Or if, for some sentimental reason, you want to still use your old, perfectly functional, paid for, unlocked phone.
To say that Apple has lied to you or that it's bullshit is simply ridiculous. If you are referring to the keynote slideshow not having 50 lines of small print explaining exactly what is required to get the $199 price, then you are even more ridiculous. It's a simple presentation, not a contract, unless you can somehow prove that you can possibly be sold an iPhone for $199 without being made well aware of your requirements then your argument is invalid.
You are OK with assumptions aren't you? Apple never mentioned anything about the price of the iPhone being a subsidized price at $199 and $299. Perhaps it is OK with most to not have clear communication. Apple had no business giving a price for the iPhone that applies only to a certain group of people. Period!
You are OK with assumptions aren't you? Apple never mentioned anything about the price of the iPhone being a subsidized price at $199 and $299. Perhaps it is OK with most to not have clear communication. Apple had no business giving a price for the iPhone that applies only to a certain group of people. Period!
I've assumed nothing. "With 2-year contract" means the device is subsidized. It's not a hard concept.
I've assumed nothing. "With 2-year contract" means the device is subsidized. It's not a hard concept.
When did you find out that the iPhone 3G was subsidized? Did Apple tell you this? No it didn't. The original iPhone wasn't. Matter of fact, Apple sold the original iPhone, but Apple is NOT selling the iPhone 3G. So why did Apple set a price for something they aren't selling? Don't you think that it's AT&T responsibility to do so and not apple?
Unfortunately it seems that many are not understanding what the original article is saying.
if you qualify for the $199 price of the iPhone, you aren't finished paying for the phone, even if you decide to never use the service.
you at least have to pay a minimum of $175 to terminate the contract, or more if you finish the two year term.
so the phone is going to cost you at a MINIMUM of $199 + $175 + whatever the activation fee is.
It isn't exactly subsidization, since that involves a company paying part of the tab for you, in the hope that they can make more money off of you in the future off of their other services (much the same way that a drug dealer might give you a free pipe, hoping that you will buy lots of product from him/her in the future).
with a true subsidy you wouldn't be obligated to continue buying or paying anything.
it also isn't financing exactly since with financing, like with a mortgage on your house, you can always pay off the principle and not have to continue paying interest. (if you buy a house that costs $100,000, you could in theory pay it totally off after a few months, and not have had to pay much more than the original price of $100,000.
It really is more like a $199 down payment, as someone said earlier.
before you are done with the phone, you at least will have to make another lump payment of $175 early termination, PLUS the firsts months payment, PLUS the activation fee, which gets you right up to the cost of just buying the phone wholesale like AT&T did from Apple.
again, as someone said earlier, for them to say that it is half price at $199, is exactly the same as saying you bought a 50 inch HD TV for $50 because that was all they asked for in down payment. It's a pretty ridiculous thing to say. and a very misleading way to present it to the public.
the fact that it isn't cheaper to get on the plan if you already have a paid for phone is just them screwing the public even further. it SHOULD be cheaper since you aren't making the phone repayments. but since people aren't all that hot with maths, they can get away with it.
Also, in the case of the iPhone, there is only one way to get the phone and plan (in store activation - in theory) so there shouldn't be any paid for phones floating around anyway. So there wouldn't be any phones available to get a reduced price on.
again, as someone said earlier, for them to say that it is half price at $199, is exactly the same as saying you bought a 50 inch HD TV for $50 because that was all they asked for in down payment. It's a pretty ridiculous thing to say. and a very misleading way to present it to the public.
Yes, but you can't add the fees you pay for HD cable or satellite service as part of the 50 inch HD TV you bought. For Example, I paid $50 down payment and my monthly payment is $50/month for 24 months and if my HD cable bill is $50/month. How much did you buy the TV for? ($50+($50/month payment X 24) = $1250) or ($50+($50/month paymeny +$50/month cable)X24) = $2450) ?? Don't you think the $2450 seems stupid since part of the amount is for service provided by someone other that the TV manufacturer/retailer?
Yes, but you can't add the fees you pay for HD cable or satellite service as part of the 50 inch HD TV you bought. For Example, I paid $50 down payment and my monthly payment is $50/month for 24 months and if my HD cable bill is $50/month. How much did you buy the TV for? ($50+($50/month payment X 24) = $1250) or ($50+($50/month paymeny +$50/month cable)X24) = $2450) ?? Don't you think the $2450 seems stupid since part of the amount is for service provided by someone other that the TV manufacturer/retailer?
you paid $1250 for the TV $50 x $24, the service is entirely separate.
with the iPhone, the service ISN'T separate from the phone for the "reduced" price of $199.
in the example of the TV, Best Buy, or whoever, doesn't care one way or the other who you get your HD service from.
you could choose NOT to even get the HD service after a change of heart. that is not possible with the iPhone. you are always going to at least pay the first month and early termination fee, and activation fee, whether you actually use the phone or not.
one way to think of it is, What is the cheapest amount you can pay to buy a new iPhone and own it outright, without having to make anymore payments of any kind?
the answer definitely isn't $199.
the $199 is only a down payment followed by some deferred billing, and to present it in any other fashion is pretty shady.
you paid $1250 for the TV $50 x $24, the service is entirely separate.
with the iPhone, the service ISN'T separate from the phone for the "reduced" price of $199.
in the example of the TV, Best Buy, or whoever, doesn't care one way or the other who you get your HD service from.
you could choose NOT to even get the HD service after a change of heart. that is not possible with the iPhone. you are always going to at least pay the first month and early termination fee, and activation fee, whether you actually use the phone or not.
one way to think of it is, What is the cheapest amount you can pay to buy a new iPhone and own it outright, without having to make anymore payments of any kind?
the answer definitely isn't $199.
the $199 is only a down payment followed by some deferred billing, and to present it in any other fashion is pretty shady.
It doesn't matter what you call it, the process is well practice and well known. For some reason only when it comes to the iPhone 3G do people suddenly fail to understand how it works.
As for the example of a TV, TiVo or Satellite service is a more apt example for comparing to the iPhone.
You are OK with assumptions aren't you? Apple never mentioned anything about the price of the iPhone being a subsidized price at $199 and $299. Perhaps it is OK with most to not have clear communication. Apple had no business giving a price for the iPhone that applies only to a certain group of people. Period!
The $199 offer for the 3G iPhone is offered to EVERYONE that starts a NEW two year contract with ATT. Apple is not responsible for your cost of getting out of your current contract or your cost to maintain two contracts. Apple has no bussiness in trying to predict everyone current situation with regards to how much it will cost them to get out of an existing contract. Sign a new two year contract with ATT and you will get the 3G iPhone for $199. Period.
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When did you find out that the iPhone 3G was subsidized? Did Apple tell you this? No it didn't. The original iPhone wasn't. Matter of fact, Apple sold the original iPhone, but Apple is NOT selling the iPhone 3G. So why did Apple set a price for something they aren't selling? Don't you think that it's AT&T responsibility to do so and not apple?
You didn't have to assume that the $199 price for the 3G iphone was with a two year contract. Job said the the 3G iPhone was half the cost of the old iPhone. The old iPhone was $399 WITH A TWO YEAR CONTRACT. Just because hackers found a way to unlock the old iPhone so that it worked without an ATT contract doesn't mean that the old iPhone sold for $399 without a contract. In fact, if you lost your old iPhone the replacement cost would be closer to $599 without a contract. Apple never meant for the old iPhone to be sold and used without a contract. Apple was actually "subsidizing" the old iPhone because it got revenue sharing from ATT with each new contract signed with an iPhone. It is only you that is assuming that the old iPhone sold for $399 without a contract.
It doesn't matter what you call it, the process is well practice and well known. For some reason only when it comes to the iPhone 3G do people suddenly fail to understand how it works.
As for the example of a TV, TiVo or Satellite service is a more apt example for comparing to the iPhone.
I agree that it is a fairly common occurrence in the sales world, the real question is are you getting a deal by taking the lower price?
the way it is being described by many in the media, you are getting a break on the price through an AT&T subsidy, but as the previous poster explained, you really aren't.
you are getting deferred billing, the ability to pay a down payment of $199, and an extra 10-15 over the course of 24 months, which is an entirely different thing altogether.
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You didn't have to assume that the $199 price for the 3G iphone was with a two year contract. Job said the the 3G iPhone was half the cost of the old iPhone. The old iPhone was $399 WITH A TWO YEAR CONTRACT. Just because hackers found a way to unlock the old iPhone so that it worked without an ATT contract doesn't mean that the old iPhone sold for $399 without a contract. In fact, if you lost your old iPhone the replacement cost would be closer to $599 without a contract. Apple never meant for the old iPhone to be sold and used without a contract. Apple was actually "subsidizing" the old iPhone because it got revenue sharing from ATT with each new contract signed with an iPhone. It is only you that is assuming that the old iPhone sold for $399 without a contract.
the part you are leaving out is that they raised the monthly prices for the 3G phones so it DOESN'T end up being half the price, no matter which way you look at it after the end of the 24 months.
I agree that it is a fairly common occurrence in the sales world, the real question is are you getting a deal by taking the lower price?
the way it is being described by many in the media, you are getting a break on the price through an AT&T subsidy, but as the previous poster explained, you really aren't.
you are getting deferred billing, the ability to pay a down payment of $199, and an extra 10-15 over the course of 24 months, which is an entirely different thing altogether.
Like I said, it doesn't amtter what we call it, we know how it works. Terms lose and take on new meanings. This has been used to define this type of transaction with cellular carriers for a long time.
As for your question abut getting a deal, that depends on your POV. If you don't care about GPS and live in an EDGE only area which you rarely travel out of and/or don't use the internet much on a phone then one should probably look for an original iPhone on Craig's List. But, if you want the aforementioned features then getting the iPhone from AT&T for $199 is a huge deal as the full retail price of the handset is $599. Even those ineligible for the lowest tier price are getting a deal as AT&T isn't charging them for the full price like it would do with its other handsets. And since you aren't getting a lower monthly bill from AT&T paying more for your iPhone there is no benefit to paying the full retail price.
the part you are leaving out is that they raised the monthly prices for the 3G phones so it DOESN'T end up being half the price, no matter which way you look at it after the end of the 24 months.
Even if the handset was free it still wouldn't be half the price, based on you logic. It be half the price the monthly dues would have also had to be cut in half. That doesn't make any sense. Jobs said the iPhone was half the price, he didn't say the service was cheaper, the same, or more. He didn't comment on it at all. He merely stated that you can buy the iPhone at price half as much as before. Something that many people (and i suspect the same that are bitching about "false advertising") were complaining about last year when they realized it would not be subsidized and they'd have to fork out a higher initial cost.
I bought an iPhone 3G today. Only $318 was deducted from debit card. That is ALL I had to pay for a 16GB iPhone. Whoever plays the semantics game will lose because the terms can be interpreted differently, and if you can turn a phrase for your benefit then so can someone else for theirs
the part you are leaving out is that they raised the monthly prices for the 3G phones so it DOESN'T end up being half the price, no matter which way you look at it after the end of the 24 months.
You make it sound like they raised the price of the data plan by $10 only FOR the 3G iPhone. The data plan went up $10 because it's now a 3G network. When the old iPhone came out, 3G was nearly non-existence for ATT. So the data plan was $20 for the old EDGE network. The data plan didn't go up $10 just for customers getting the 3G iPhone. It went up for everyone because it's now an upgraded 3G network. You got something for that $10. You're making it sound like the extra $10 goes to pay for subsidizing the 3G iPhone.
The iPhone cost $199 with a two year contract. Period. Not everyone goes with the cheapest plan offered. Many users will choose upgrade plans. Many users that were paying $40- $50/month for data can now get away with $30/month for data. So the extra $10 doesn't affect everyone in the same way. It's added to the cost of the plan not the cost of the iPhone.
The two year plan will cost a minium of $70 x 24. It the same cost whether you got a free phone or pay a subsidized price for a Nokia, Blackberry or 3G iPhone. 3G iPhones owner aren't getting screwed because the data plan now cost $30/month.
You make it sound like they raised the price of the data plan by $10 only FOR the 3G iPhone. The data plan went up $10 because it's now a 3G network. When the old iPhone came out, 3G was nearly non-existence for ATT. So the data plan was $20 for the old EDGE network. The data plan didn't go up $10 just for customers getting the 3G iPhone. It went up for everyone because it's now an upgraded 3G network. You got something for that $10. You're making it sound like the extra $10 goes to pay for subsidizing the 3G iPhone.
The iPhone cost $199 with a two year contract. Period. Not everyone goes with the cheapest plan offered. Many users will choose upgrade plans. Many users that were paying $40- $50/month for data can now get away with $30/month for data. So the extra $10 doesn't affect everyone in the same way. It's added to the cost of the plan not the cost of the iPhone.
The two year plan will cost a minium of $70 x 24. It the same cost whether you got a free phone or pay a subsidized price for a Nokia, Blackberry or 3G iPhone. 3G iPhones owner aren't getting screwed because the data plan now cost $30/month.
I'm not sure why you guys are so vehement on saying that the phone is only $199 PERIOD, but it's pretty silly.
you CAN NOT buy the phone without the contract, so you CAN NOT price the phone without pricing the contract.
I am not saying that it is good or bad or anything. for many people it is probably better to pay less down and more over a monthly period.
but to say that the phone is only $199 when you CAN'T buy the phone for $199 is just silly.
but to say that the phone is only $199 when you CAN'T buy the phone for $199 is just silly.
You are really missing the point. The iPhone is a physical device. if someone asked you to describe what an iPhone is you are going to talk about AT&T. The iPhone, the device itself, costs you $199 when for an 8GB model when you walk in the store. That plus tax is all you pay right then and there. That initial price is half the price as it was previously.
We are all aware of total cost of ownership. We are also aware that the iPhone will cost you $40 more total over the previous one for the lowest cost plan, and $160 more over two years for the exact same plan. But we aren't talking about service plans here, we are talking about the hardware. Using your logic, the previous iPhone also didn't cost $400 as advertised as it ddi require a 2 year service plan, it just wasn't very enforceable (but that has been stated to you over-and-over again). You are adding a TOC to one device but not the other, that makes absolutely no sense. The DEViCE is half the price, that has no bearing on the SERVICE plan as the service plan is not the DEVICE. They advertise free sat receivers with installation and service, no one is deluded that the service isn't supplementing the cost of the hardware, that doesn't mean it's a good deal, especially when the service charges are the same regardless.
You are really missing the point. The iPhone is a physical device. if someone asked you to describe what an iPhone is you are going to talk about AT&T. The iPhone, the device itself, costs you $199 when for an 8GB model when you walk in the store. That plus tax is all you pay right then and there. That initial price is half the price as it was previously.
We are all aware of total cost of ownership. We are also aware that the iPhone will cost you $40 more total over the previous one for the lowest cost plan, and $160 more over two years for the exact same plan. But we aren't talking about service plans here, we are talking about the hardware. Using your logic, the previous iPhone also didn't cost $400 as advertised as it ddi require a 2 year service plan, it just wasn't very enforceable (but that has been stated to you over-and-over again). You are adding a TOC to one device but not the other, that makes absolutely no sense. The DEViCE is half the price, that has no bearing on the SERVICE plan as the service plan is not the DEVICE. They advertise free sat receivers with installation and service, no one is deluded that the service isn't supplementing the cost of the hardware, that doesn't mean it's a good deal, especially when the service charges are the same regardless.
maybe you just aren't reading my posts.
as I said, since you can't just buy the DEVICE alone at those prices, you HAVE to include the service plans for both the original and 3G phones.
it is never even CHEAPER with the 3G iPhone, let alone "half-price"
you can only talk about pricing them separately when you can BUY them separately at those prices.
I'm not sure why you guys are so vehement on saying that the phone is only $199 PERIOD, but it's pretty silly.
you CAN NOT buy the phone without the contract, so you CAN NOT price the phone without pricing the contract.
I am not saying that it is good or bad or anything. for many people it is probably better to pay less down and more over a monthly period.
but to say that the phone is only $199 when you CAN'T buy the phone for $199 is just silly.
Because were not comparing the cost of the iPhone with a paper weight. For signing a two year $70/month ATT contract, there are more than a dozen phones to chose from, Some will cost you $399. Others $299, $199 or $99. And some are free, It doesn't matter which phone you chose. When you back out the cost of the plan for two years you will arrive at the cost of the phone. And the iPhone will cost you $199 more than a phone that you could have gotten for free.
It doesn't matter that you don't consider the phone that you got for free, free. All that matters is that what ever cost you may imagine you paid for the phone in the contracr applies to all the phones being offered at EXACTLY the same rate. So when compared to the free phone that you could have gotten, the 3G iPhone cost $199. Period.
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I'd say the 2 year is more desired, by the 5 year is more popular in terms of rationale.
If Apple wanted to go with multiple versions of the iPhone you have to ask yourself two questionsI don't know what Apple has planned, but making multiple HW versions for different carriers just isn't Jobs style. I bet jobs already hates that keyboards need different layouts and power cords use different plugs across countries.
But above all, Jobs likes to make money so you can bet he will make sure the iPhone works with as many carriers he can like all other smartphone makers.
I'm sure starting with just one carrier had more to do with a combination of not being taking seriously enough at first/ testing the waters. Both have been done successfully. The time is ripe for more progress.
Bet on it.
I think the carriers hope to recoup their cost of subsidizing because you are locked in as their customer for two years. And in those two years hey hope that you will spend more on "extras" than the cost of the subsidy.
Go over on your minutes several times in your two years and you wull most likely pay for half the subsidy. Specially if you have a teenager on the plan. Call 411 and it's a buck extra. Receive or send a photo and it's another buck. Text message, ringtones, download music, phone acessories and insurrance are all money makers for carriers.
Not to mention unused minutes. I bet most don;t come close to using all the minutes they pay for every month. And those that do, most likely will go over several times a year. Roll over minutes is just a way of keeping you as a customer. So you won't lose your saved minutes when signing with another carrier.
Plus as a customer you would most likely stick with thr same carrier when upgrading plans, adding data, adding another family member or renewing contract,
All carriers has to spend money to compete for new customers. And I don't see any carriers (here in the US) oferring cheaper monthly plans (without a subsidize phone) to attract new customers that already own a phone. And neither does the cost of your plan drop after your two year contract is up. Which is what you would expecr to happen if you were paying a hidden monthly fee for your subsidized phone. So I don't think the cost of the plan is what subsidizing the phone. The carriers already figured out that the average customer will pay for the subsidy (and more) with the "extras" they'll be spending as a customer in the next two years. And what benifits that may come along by having you as their customer.
So there is no gimmick. No lies. No BS. No hidden fees. The iPhone is $199 (in the US). The plan will cost you $70/month, It's the same $70/month you would pay if you got a free Sony/Ericsson. Pay $100 for a Nokia. Pay $299 for a Blackberry. Or if, for some sentimental reason, you want to still use your old, perfectly functional, paid for, unlocked phone.
To say that Apple has lied to you or that it's bullshit is simply ridiculous. If you are referring to the keynote slideshow not having 50 lines of small print explaining exactly what is required to get the $199 price, then you are even more ridiculous. It's a simple presentation, not a contract, unless you can somehow prove that you can possibly be sold an iPhone for $199 without being made well aware of your requirements then your argument is invalid.
You are OK with assumptions aren't you? Apple never mentioned anything about the price of the iPhone being a subsidized price at $199 and $299. Perhaps it is OK with most to not have clear communication. Apple had no business giving a price for the iPhone that applies only to a certain group of people. Period!
You are OK with assumptions aren't you? Apple never mentioned anything about the price of the iPhone being a subsidized price at $199 and $299. Perhaps it is OK with most to not have clear communication. Apple had no business giving a price for the iPhone that applies only to a certain group of people. Period!
I've assumed nothing. "With 2-year contract" means the device is subsidized. It's not a hard concept.
I've assumed nothing. "With 2-year contract" means the device is subsidized. It's not a hard concept.
When did you find out that the iPhone 3G was subsidized? Did Apple tell you this? No it didn't. The original iPhone wasn't. Matter of fact, Apple sold the original iPhone, but Apple is NOT selling the iPhone 3G. So why did Apple set a price for something they aren't selling? Don't you think that it's AT&T responsibility to do so and not apple?
if you qualify for the $199 price of the iPhone, you aren't finished paying for the phone, even if you decide to never use the service.
you at least have to pay a minimum of $175 to terminate the contract, or more if you finish the two year term.
so the phone is going to cost you at a MINIMUM of $199 + $175 + whatever the activation fee is.
It isn't exactly subsidization, since that involves a company paying part of the tab for you, in the hope that they can make more money off of you in the future off of their other services (much the same way that a drug dealer might give you a free pipe, hoping that you will buy lots of product from him/her in the future).
with a true subsidy you wouldn't be obligated to continue buying or paying anything.
it also isn't financing exactly since with financing, like with a mortgage on your house, you can always pay off the principle and not have to continue paying interest. (if you buy a house that costs $100,000, you could in theory pay it totally off after a few months, and not have had to pay much more than the original price of $100,000.
It really is more like a $199 down payment, as someone said earlier.
before you are done with the phone, you at least will have to make another lump payment of $175 early termination, PLUS the firsts months payment, PLUS the activation fee, which gets you right up to the cost of just buying the phone wholesale like AT&T did from Apple.
again, as someone said earlier, for them to say that it is half price at $199, is exactly the same as saying you bought a 50 inch HD TV for $50 because that was all they asked for in down payment. It's a pretty ridiculous thing to say. and a very misleading way to present it to the public.
the fact that it isn't cheaper to get on the plan if you already have a paid for phone is just them screwing the public even further. it SHOULD be cheaper since you aren't making the phone repayments. but since people aren't all that hot with maths, they can get away with it.
Also, in the case of the iPhone, there is only one way to get the phone and plan (in store activation - in theory) so there shouldn't be any paid for phones floating around anyway. So there wouldn't be any phones available to get a reduced price on.
again, as someone said earlier, for them to say that it is half price at $199, is exactly the same as saying you bought a 50 inch HD TV for $50 because that was all they asked for in down payment. It's a pretty ridiculous thing to say. and a very misleading way to present it to the public.
Yes, but you can't add the fees you pay for HD cable or satellite service as part of the 50 inch HD TV you bought. For Example, I paid $50 down payment and my monthly payment is $50/month for 24 months and if my HD cable bill is $50/month. How much did you buy the TV for? ($50+($50/month payment X 24) = $1250) or ($50+($50/month paymeny +$50/month cable)X24) = $2450) ?? Don't you think the $2450 seems stupid since part of the amount is for service provided by someone other that the TV manufacturer/retailer?
Yes, but you can't add the fees you pay for HD cable or satellite service as part of the 50 inch HD TV you bought. For Example, I paid $50 down payment and my monthly payment is $50/month for 24 months and if my HD cable bill is $50/month. How much did you buy the TV for? ($50+($50/month payment X 24) = $1250) or ($50+($50/month paymeny +$50/month cable)X24) = $2450) ?? Don't you think the $2450 seems stupid since part of the amount is for service provided by someone other that the TV manufacturer/retailer?
you paid $1250 for the TV $50 x $24, the service is entirely separate.
with the iPhone, the service ISN'T separate from the phone for the "reduced" price of $199.
in the example of the TV, Best Buy, or whoever, doesn't care one way or the other who you get your HD service from.
you could choose NOT to even get the HD service after a change of heart. that is not possible with the iPhone. you are always going to at least pay the first month and early termination fee, and activation fee, whether you actually use the phone or not.
one way to think of it is, What is the cheapest amount you can pay to buy a new iPhone and own it outright, without having to make anymore payments of any kind?
the answer definitely isn't $199.
the $199 is only a down payment followed by some deferred billing, and to present it in any other fashion is pretty shady.
you paid $1250 for the TV $50 x $24, the service is entirely separate.
with the iPhone, the service ISN'T separate from the phone for the "reduced" price of $199.
in the example of the TV, Best Buy, or whoever, doesn't care one way or the other who you get your HD service from.
you could choose NOT to even get the HD service after a change of heart. that is not possible with the iPhone. you are always going to at least pay the first month and early termination fee, and activation fee, whether you actually use the phone or not.
one way to think of it is, What is the cheapest amount you can pay to buy a new iPhone and own it outright, without having to make anymore payments of any kind?
the answer definitely isn't $199.
the $199 is only a down payment followed by some deferred billing, and to present it in any other fashion is pretty shady.
It doesn't matter what you call it, the process is well practice and well known. For some reason only when it comes to the iPhone 3G do people suddenly fail to understand how it works.
As for the example of a TV, TiVo or Satellite service is a more apt example for comparing to the iPhone.
You are OK with assumptions aren't you? Apple never mentioned anything about the price of the iPhone being a subsidized price at $199 and $299. Perhaps it is OK with most to not have clear communication. Apple had no business giving a price for the iPhone that applies only to a certain group of people. Period!
The $199 offer for the 3G iPhone is offered to EVERYONE that starts a NEW two year contract with ATT. Apple is not responsible for your cost of getting out of your current contract or your cost to maintain two contracts. Apple has no bussiness in trying to predict everyone current situation with regards to how much it will cost them to get out of an existing contract. Sign a new two year contract with ATT and you will get the 3G iPhone for $199. Period.
When did you find out that the iPhone 3G was subsidized? Did Apple tell you this? No it didn't. The original iPhone wasn't. Matter of fact, Apple sold the original iPhone, but Apple is NOT selling the iPhone 3G. So why did Apple set a price for something they aren't selling? Don't you think that it's AT&T responsibility to do so and not apple?
You didn't have to assume that the $199 price for the 3G iphone was with a two year contract. Job said the the 3G iPhone was half the cost of the old iPhone. The old iPhone was $399 WITH A TWO YEAR CONTRACT. Just because hackers found a way to unlock the old iPhone so that it worked without an ATT contract doesn't mean that the old iPhone sold for $399 without a contract. In fact, if you lost your old iPhone the replacement cost would be closer to $599 without a contract. Apple never meant for the old iPhone to be sold and used without a contract. Apple was actually "subsidizing" the old iPhone because it got revenue sharing from ATT with each new contract signed with an iPhone. It is only you that is assuming that the old iPhone sold for $399 without a contract.
It doesn't matter what you call it, the process is well practice and well known. For some reason only when it comes to the iPhone 3G do people suddenly fail to understand how it works.
As for the example of a TV, TiVo or Satellite service is a more apt example for comparing to the iPhone.
I agree that it is a fairly common occurrence in the sales world, the real question is are you getting a deal by taking the lower price?
the way it is being described by many in the media, you are getting a break on the price through an AT&T subsidy, but as the previous poster explained, you really aren't.
you are getting deferred billing, the ability to pay a down payment of $199, and an extra 10-15 over the course of 24 months, which is an entirely different thing altogether.
You didn't have to assume that the $199 price for the 3G iphone was with a two year contract. Job said the the 3G iPhone was half the cost of the old iPhone. The old iPhone was $399 WITH A TWO YEAR CONTRACT. Just because hackers found a way to unlock the old iPhone so that it worked without an ATT contract doesn't mean that the old iPhone sold for $399 without a contract. In fact, if you lost your old iPhone the replacement cost would be closer to $599 without a contract. Apple never meant for the old iPhone to be sold and used without a contract. Apple was actually "subsidizing" the old iPhone because it got revenue sharing from ATT with each new contract signed with an iPhone. It is only you that is assuming that the old iPhone sold for $399 without a contract.
the part you are leaving out is that they raised the monthly prices for the 3G phones so it DOESN'T end up being half the price, no matter which way you look at it after the end of the 24 months.
I agree that it is a fairly common occurrence in the sales world, the real question is are you getting a deal by taking the lower price?
the way it is being described by many in the media, you are getting a break on the price through an AT&T subsidy, but as the previous poster explained, you really aren't.
you are getting deferred billing, the ability to pay a down payment of $199, and an extra 10-15 over the course of 24 months, which is an entirely different thing altogether.
Like I said, it doesn't amtter what we call it, we know how it works. Terms lose and take on new meanings. This has been used to define this type of transaction with cellular carriers for a long time.
As for your question abut getting a deal, that depends on your POV. If you don't care about GPS and live in an EDGE only area which you rarely travel out of and/or don't use the internet much on a phone then one should probably look for an original iPhone on Craig's List. But, if you want the aforementioned features then getting the iPhone from AT&T for $199 is a huge deal as the full retail price of the handset is $599. Even those ineligible for the lowest tier price are getting a deal as AT&T isn't charging them for the full price like it would do with its other handsets. And since you aren't getting a lower monthly bill from AT&T paying more for your iPhone there is no benefit to paying the full retail price.
the part you are leaving out is that they raised the monthly prices for the 3G phones so it DOESN'T end up being half the price, no matter which way you look at it after the end of the 24 months.
Even if the handset was free it still wouldn't be half the price, based on you logic. It be half the price the monthly dues would have also had to be cut in half. That doesn't make any sense. Jobs said the iPhone was half the price, he didn't say the service was cheaper, the same, or more. He didn't comment on it at all. He merely stated that you can buy the iPhone at price half as much as before. Something that many people (and i suspect the same that are bitching about "false advertising") were complaining about last year when they realized it would not be subsidized and they'd have to fork out a higher initial cost.
I bought an iPhone 3G today. Only $318 was deducted from debit card. That is ALL I had to pay for a 16GB iPhone. Whoever plays the semantics game will lose because the terms can be interpreted differently, and if you can turn a phrase for your benefit then so can someone else for theirs
the part you are leaving out is that they raised the monthly prices for the 3G phones so it DOESN'T end up being half the price, no matter which way you look at it after the end of the 24 months.
You make it sound like they raised the price of the data plan by $10 only FOR the 3G iPhone. The data plan went up $10 because it's now a 3G network. When the old iPhone came out, 3G was nearly non-existence for ATT. So the data plan was $20 for the old EDGE network. The data plan didn't go up $10 just for customers getting the 3G iPhone. It went up for everyone because it's now an upgraded 3G network. You got something for that $10. You're making it sound like the extra $10 goes to pay for subsidizing the 3G iPhone.
The iPhone cost $199 with a two year contract. Period. Not everyone goes with the cheapest plan offered. Many users will choose upgrade plans. Many users that were paying $40- $50/month for data can now get away with $30/month for data. So the extra $10 doesn't affect everyone in the same way. It's added to the cost of the plan not the cost of the iPhone.
The two year plan will cost a minium of $70 x 24. It the same cost whether you got a free phone or pay a subsidized price for a Nokia, Blackberry or 3G iPhone. 3G iPhones owner aren't getting screwed because the data plan now cost $30/month.
You make it sound like they raised the price of the data plan by $10 only FOR the 3G iPhone. The data plan went up $10 because it's now a 3G network. When the old iPhone came out, 3G was nearly non-existence for ATT. So the data plan was $20 for the old EDGE network. The data plan didn't go up $10 just for customers getting the 3G iPhone. It went up for everyone because it's now an upgraded 3G network. You got something for that $10. You're making it sound like the extra $10 goes to pay for subsidizing the 3G iPhone.
The iPhone cost $199 with a two year contract. Period. Not everyone goes with the cheapest plan offered. Many users will choose upgrade plans. Many users that were paying $40- $50/month for data can now get away with $30/month for data. So the extra $10 doesn't affect everyone in the same way. It's added to the cost of the plan not the cost of the iPhone.
The two year plan will cost a minium of $70 x 24. It the same cost whether you got a free phone or pay a subsidized price for a Nokia, Blackberry or 3G iPhone. 3G iPhones owner aren't getting screwed because the data plan now cost $30/month.
I'm not sure why you guys are so vehement on saying that the phone is only $199 PERIOD, but it's pretty silly.
you CAN NOT buy the phone without the contract, so you CAN NOT price the phone without pricing the contract.
I am not saying that it is good or bad or anything. for many people it is probably better to pay less down and more over a monthly period.
but to say that the phone is only $199 when you CAN'T buy the phone for $199 is just silly.
but to say that the phone is only $199 when you CAN'T buy the phone for $199 is just silly.
You are really missing the point. The iPhone is a physical device. if someone asked you to describe what an iPhone is you are going to talk about AT&T. The iPhone, the device itself, costs you $199 when for an 8GB model when you walk in the store. That plus tax is all you pay right then and there. That initial price is half the price as it was previously.
We are all aware of total cost of ownership. We are also aware that the iPhone will cost you $40 more total over the previous one for the lowest cost plan, and $160 more over two years for the exact same plan. But we aren't talking about service plans here, we are talking about the hardware. Using your logic, the previous iPhone also didn't cost $400 as advertised as it ddi require a 2 year service plan, it just wasn't very enforceable (but that has been stated to you over-and-over again). You are adding a TOC to one device but not the other, that makes absolutely no sense. The DEViCE is half the price, that has no bearing on the SERVICE plan as the service plan is not the DEVICE. They advertise free sat receivers with installation and service, no one is deluded that the service isn't supplementing the cost of the hardware, that doesn't mean it's a good deal, especially when the service charges are the same regardless.
You are really missing the point. The iPhone is a physical device. if someone asked you to describe what an iPhone is you are going to talk about AT&T. The iPhone, the device itself, costs you $199 when for an 8GB model when you walk in the store. That plus tax is all you pay right then and there. That initial price is half the price as it was previously.
We are all aware of total cost of ownership. We are also aware that the iPhone will cost you $40 more total over the previous one for the lowest cost plan, and $160 more over two years for the exact same plan. But we aren't talking about service plans here, we are talking about the hardware. Using your logic, the previous iPhone also didn't cost $400 as advertised as it ddi require a 2 year service plan, it just wasn't very enforceable (but that has been stated to you over-and-over again). You are adding a TOC to one device but not the other, that makes absolutely no sense. The DEViCE is half the price, that has no bearing on the SERVICE plan as the service plan is not the DEVICE. They advertise free sat receivers with installation and service, no one is deluded that the service isn't supplementing the cost of the hardware, that doesn't mean it's a good deal, especially when the service charges are the same regardless.
maybe you just aren't reading my posts.
as I said, since you can't just buy the DEVICE alone at those prices, you HAVE to include the service plans for both the original and 3G phones.
it is never even CHEAPER with the 3G iPhone, let alone "half-price"
you can only talk about pricing them separately when you can BUY them separately at those prices.
you can only talk about pricing them separately when you can BUY them separately at those prices.
Apparently not.
If Apple loses a class action and no cell phone is ever advertised lower than the TOC then I'll concede that you are correct.
I'm not sure why you guys are so vehement on saying that the phone is only $199 PERIOD, but it's pretty silly.
you CAN NOT buy the phone without the contract, so you CAN NOT price the phone without pricing the contract.
I am not saying that it is good or bad or anything. for many people it is probably better to pay less down and more over a monthly period.
but to say that the phone is only $199 when you CAN'T buy the phone for $199 is just silly.
Because were not comparing the cost of the iPhone with a paper weight. For signing a two year $70/month ATT contract, there are more than a dozen phones to chose from, Some will cost you $399. Others $299, $199 or $99. And some are free, It doesn't matter which phone you chose. When you back out the cost of the plan for two years you will arrive at the cost of the phone. And the iPhone will cost you $199 more than a phone that you could have gotten for free.
It doesn't matter that you don't consider the phone that you got for free, free. All that matters is that what ever cost you may imagine you paid for the phone in the contracr applies to all the phones being offered at EXACTLY the same rate. So when compared to the free phone that you could have gotten, the 3G iPhone cost $199. Period.
Yes, learning something new is always hard, and the first week of freshman year is always awkward, I'm there with you, so:
WELCOME TO THE WONDERFUL WORLD OF TCO
please tip your IT Buyer or Capcacity Planner on the way out; try the veal -it's great.
and yes, sometimes the electricity to run it costs more than the server; the halon costs more than the os, etc. etc. etc.