Didn't you hear? AI is hosting this year's superbowl of hyperbole
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Originally Posted by jfanning
No, they are competing against all cellphone sales.
All advanced cell phones are added to the total sales of cellphones but Apple is competing directly against other smartphones. Just like other smartphones that are being geared toward multimedia are competing against the iPhone. You don't see the Samsung Instinct commercials comparing itself favourably to a free, throwaway phone, do you?
The only sense that your comment hold true is that the iPhone has made smartphones more popular so that it's not just geel or business device. This trend is affecting the sales of all smartphones positively, not just the iPhone.
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What does "doing quite well in Japan" mean? .05% market share, 1% market share, what exactly?
Partially, it's similar to what the Phone getting 1% of the entire cellphone market mean for the industry. It's getting others to follow suit in making the industry better as a whole.
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Also, the other manufactures are in a better position to compete on price as well, something Apple doesn't like doing.
Compete on price or compete on profit? If you mean price then you must be comparing the iPhone to other non-smartphones with little on-board storage. The results have shown the iPhone to be quite competitive on price. But before it came out paying $800-$1000 for the smartphones was not unheard of a hefty SSD capacity included.
To the chagrin on many, Apple is saving money on R&D and production by having essentially one phone whose only difference is an extra 8GB SSD or a white case backing instead of a black one. As much as people hate the lack of options it does afford them the ability to stay competitive and still get a good profit. Of course, the other side of that coin of that is to make make many different variations that suit a larger populace to gain profits by having more sales.
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Originally Posted by sapporobaby
I think the "knowing" part is more visual rather than information based. Here in Finland, where I am currently posted, I see hardly any iPhones, but rather than trust my eyes, I talk to my friends at Sonera. They say that the iPhone did okay, but not as well as expected. This is further borne out by the fact that you can walk into any Sonera shop, or other outlet and get an iPhone of choice, black, white, 16 gig, 8 gig. No waiting. This would imply that there is plenty of stock on hand. Several of my co-workers that ordered iPhones are still getting calls to see if they want to come down and pick one up. In this instance it would be easy to assume that the iPhone was not as big a hit as it was else where. Maybe Sonera will release some sales figures to back this up. For the most part, Finns do not like the locked in part of the iPhone contracts. It is a matter of the subscription terms rather than price.
Yours is the only credible story that the iPhone isn't doing well in a country. I wonder if we'll ever get a per-country or carrier breakdown of sales or activations.
Although I don't doubt AU is suffering from the iPhone impact (and I think AU would have been a better fit for the iPhone), the iPhone has not sold out in Japan. I keep seeing articles saying this, but it isn't true.
My local SoftBank dealer still has them in stock, and I would expect that other small location dealers also have them still.
Is there a reason emoji can't be put on the iPhone? I must've missed something. I mean, how hard can it be to put smiley's on the thing? Is it a MS thing? I doubt someone owns emoticons.
It's hard to say if Apple doesn't want to soil the iphone with emoticons (even though iChat has them) or wants to stay away from any potential litigation as they've become a huge target since their rise this decade.
Wikipedia states that there are patents for emoticons and even links to one that specifically is about using them on cell phones. I hate patent trolls!
Didn't you hear? AI is hosting this year's superbowl of hyperbole
My vote for best quote of this thread. Hell maybe even the entire forum.
Quote:
Yours is the only credible story that the iPhone isn't doing well in a country. I wonder if we'll ever get a per-country or carrier breakdown of sales or activations.
I am just reporting what my friends inside of Sonera are saying. I do know for a fact though that Sonera is calling and asking if people want to come down and get a phone. Sort of funny how this has turned out. I think I posted back on the 11th of June that Sonera had a raffle to offer 200 lucky people the chance to have the iPhone first in Finland. Only 1000 people were allowed to enter the contest with 200 names being drawn at midnight. I texted messaged 4 or 5 times, from 4 or 5 different numbers to enter. At 23:50 I received replies on all of my phones that I had won. Meaning that less than 200 people had entered the contest. I am curious to see how Sonera will handle this as the Finns simply will not pay full price for a locked phone.
All advanced cell phones are added to the total sales of cellphones but Apple is competing directly against other smartphones. Just like other smartphones that are being geared toward multimedia are competing against the iPhone. You don't see the Samsung Instinct commercials comparing itself favourably to a free, throwaway phone, do you?
No, but if someone is buying a new phone, they will decide which features they need, a simple phone, mid range, or a smartphone, and then buy one of those. Meaning each category of device is competing against the other.
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism
Compete on price or compete on profit? If you mean price then you must be comparing the iPhone to other non-smartphones with little on-board storage. The results have shown the iPhone to be quite competitive on price. But before it came out paying $800-$1000 for the smartphones was not unheard of a hefty SSD capacity included.
Are you referring to US$? But even still, I have not paid anywhere near that much money for a smart phone for several years
No, but if someone is buying a new phone, they will decide which features they need, a simple phone, mid range, or a smartphone, and then buy one of those. Meaning each category of device is competing against the other.
I see what you are saying but I disagree with the rationale. One is a comparison of a category and the other is a specific product within a category. The smartphone category is directly competing with mid-range and simple cellphone categories, but the iPhone product is directly competing against other smartphones.
as a 5-year resident of japan i really feel the mobile market over here is over-rated. when i first arrived in 2003 i was quite impressed with the technology on offer; full-colour screens and "interesting" features were quite engaging but in the years since the likes of nokia and sony-ericson have left the closed japanese market in the dust. sure, phones still have a lot of features but most are superfluous and hidden in clunky text menus systems. add to that the MASSIVE ipod-created cool appeal of apple and it's no surprise that many consumers might choose to forgo 1-seg and emoji mail for a clean and friendly interface.
IR beaming is pretty damn handy on the dating scene but then not everyone is on the dating scene!
No, but if someone is buying a new phone, they will decide which features they need, a simple phone, mid range, or a smartphone, and then buy one of those. Meaning each category of device is competing against the other.
I disagree. If someone is looking for a full QWERTY keyboard and internet they are not looking at low end phones at all. If someone wants a free phone and low monthly bill they are not really looking at a smartphone at all. Midrange phones somewhat bridge the gap in features and cost.
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Are you referring to US$? But even still, I have not paid anywhere near that much money for a smart phone for several years
That's because you are only buying subsidized phones with contract. You pay full price for an unsubsidized phone and no contract.
"You uncool, cold-hearted person! Why are you speaking to me with your voice? I demand a text message, with a pre-defined smiling circle!"
The bar-code thing sounds cool, though, if used widely. I bet if Apple added that the the software, the practice would suddenly catch on outside Japan. I especially like the idea of scanning a business card to load a contact.
No, they are competing against all cellphone sales.
You don't read anything, do you? They are not competing against all cellphone sales. This has been stated over and again.
If you don't understand that basic fact, then there's no point in your bothering to be in a discussion about it.
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No, why would I. I don't live in Japan, and I have no interest in the Japanese phone market. I was just replying to your phone regarding a subjective article. What does "doing quite well in Japan" mean? .05% market share, 1% market share, what exactly?
The articles have been written, and published here. You obviously do read things here, or you wouldn't be on this thread.
Re-read the article. It's very clear as to what they mean.
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Yes, at the end of 2007 they were around 14.5% market share, compared to Nokia's 39%
Yes, a tripling of marketshare.
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As I have said, they are competing in all mobile phone sales, the majority of people do not go out and purchase a cheap phone, and a smart phone, they will purchase one phone.
Also, the other manufactures are in a better position to compete on price as well, something Apple doesn't like doing.
Say it until you're blue in the face, but you are still wrong.
Oh, there will be causualties. There always are. The market will consolidate as it matures, and only the strongest will survive.
But it's also looking dimmer for Android. I'm not so sure it will make it.
Might depend on what the goals are for Android. I foresee little market overlap between Android and the iPhone or other smartphones. Rather I think Android is gunning for Symbian OS to replace it as the dominant system on non-smart phones worldwide. This will be a significant market for years to come. And let's face it, if Android is half as good as its demos, it will be 10x as good as any Symbian-based phone I've ever used.
I think the "knowing" part is more visual rather than information based. Here in Finland, where I am currently posted, I see hardly any iPhones, but rather than trust my eyes, I talk to my friends at Sonera. They say that the iPhone did okay, but not as well as expected. This is further borne out by the fact that you can walk into any Sonera shop, or other outlet and get an iPhone of choice, black, white, 16 gig, 8 gig. No waiting. This would imply that there is plenty of stock on hand. Several of my co-workers that ordered iPhones are still getting calls to see if they want to come down and pick one up. In this instance it would be easy to assume that the iPhone was not as big a hit as it was else where. Maybe Sonera will release some sales figures to back this up. For the most part, Finns do not like the locked in part of the iPhone contracts. It is a matter of the subscription terms rather than price.
Which people exactly. I do not think there are any iPhone haters here. The debates seem balanced actually. Some see things one way, while others see them another way.
Oh, there are some iPhone haters here. Possibly they are also Apple haters. I see those around, as I'm sure we all do.
They jump at anything Apple, as the MS haters jump at anything MS.
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I bet you a Pepsi, you will soon see a report that the iPhone is doing poorly in Japan.
If we could figure out how to implement that, it would be fine with me.
Might depend on what the goals are for Android. I foresee little market overlap between Android and the iPhone or other smartphones. Rather I think Android is gunning for Symbian OS to replace it as the dominant system on non-smart phones worldwide. This will be a significant market for years to come. And let's face it, if Android is half as good as its demos, it will be 10x as good as any Symbian-based phone I've ever used.
It's having a lot of problems now though. Developers are fuming about the way Google is keeping the updates secret from most of them. Updates are long in coming, even for the very few developers who are getting them. The developmental environment is criticized as being inadequate. Developers are moving to the iPhone. Developers are also criticizing the fact that it allows too many physical differences between phones, making development much more difficult.
The one phone that is supposed to be coming out with Android has been delayed for the second time, etc.
I disagree. If someone is looking for a full QWERTY keyboard and internet they are not looking at low end phones at all. If someone wants a free phone and low monthly bill they are not really looking at a smartphone at all. Midrange phones somewhat bridge the gap in features and cost.
So you are saying that the person wanting a fully qwerty keyboard phone will buy one of them, and a cheap phone as well? Yeah that makes sense, you must have too much money if you can purchase two devices when one will do.
Most people will purchase one, or the other device, not both, so that makes them in competition with each other.
Quote:
Originally Posted by TenoBell
That's because you are only buying subsidized phones with contract. You pay full price for an unsubsidized phone and no contract.
You don't read anything, do you? They are not competing against all cellphone sales. This has been stated over and again.
If you don't understand that basic fact, then there's no point in your bothering to be in a discussion about it.
No, I understand it perfectly. If I am purchasing a new phone, I choose what features I want, then purhase a model that will support that. ie Do I get phone that just supports MMS/SMS/Voice, or do I get something more, like installable applications etc.
I would purchase one of them, not both, so that makes the devices in competition to each other.
The same concept with a ?2000 Mac, it is in competition with a ?500 Dell, they might not be in the same category as each other, but they are still in competiion with each other.
Comments
That's the opposite absurdity.
Neither is true.
Didn't you hear? AI is hosting this year's superbowl of hyperbole
No, they are competing against all cellphone sales.
All advanced cell phones are added to the total sales of cellphones but Apple is competing directly against other smartphones. Just like other smartphones that are being geared toward multimedia are competing against the iPhone. You don't see the Samsung Instinct commercials comparing itself favourably to a free, throwaway phone, do you?
The only sense that your comment hold true is that the iPhone has made smartphones more popular so that it's not just geel or business device. This trend is affecting the sales of all smartphones positively, not just the iPhone.
What does "doing quite well in Japan" mean? .05% market share, 1% market share, what exactly?
Partially, it's similar to what the Phone getting 1% of the entire cellphone market mean for the industry. It's getting others to follow suit in making the industry better as a whole.
Also, the other manufactures are in a better position to compete on price as well, something Apple doesn't like doing.
Compete on price or compete on profit? If you mean price then you must be comparing the iPhone to other non-smartphones with little on-board storage. The results have shown the iPhone to be quite competitive on price. But before it came out paying $800-$1000 for the smartphones was not unheard of a hefty SSD capacity included.
To the chagrin on many, Apple is saving money on R&D and production by having essentially one phone whose only difference is an extra 8GB SSD or a white case backing instead of a black one. As much as people hate the lack of options it does afford them the ability to stay competitive and still get a good profit. Of course, the other side of that coin of that is to make make many different variations that suit a larger populace to gain profits by having more sales.
I think the "knowing" part is more visual rather than information based. Here in Finland, where I am currently posted, I see hardly any iPhones, but rather than trust my eyes, I talk to my friends at Sonera. They say that the iPhone did okay, but not as well as expected. This is further borne out by the fact that you can walk into any Sonera shop, or other outlet and get an iPhone of choice, black, white, 16 gig, 8 gig. No waiting. This would imply that there is plenty of stock on hand. Several of my co-workers that ordered iPhones are still getting calls to see if they want to come down and pick one up. In this instance it would be easy to assume that the iPhone was not as big a hit as it was else where. Maybe Sonera will release some sales figures to back this up. For the most part, Finns do not like the locked in part of the iPhone contracts. It is a matter of the subscription terms rather than price.
Yours is the only credible story that the iPhone isn't doing well in a country. I wonder if we'll ever get a per-country or carrier breakdown of sales or activations.
My local SoftBank dealer still has them in stock, and I would expect that other small location dealers also have them still.
Is there a reason emoji can't be put on the iPhone? I must've missed something. I mean, how hard can it be to put smiley's on the thing? Is it a MS thing? I doubt someone owns emoticons.
It's hard to say if Apple doesn't want to soil the iphone with emoticons (even though iChat has them) or wants to stay away from any potential litigation as they've become a huge target since their rise this decade.
Wikipedia states that there are patents for emoticons and even links to one that specifically is about using them on cell phones. I hate patent trolls!
Didn't you hear? AI is hosting this year's superbowl of hyperbole
My vote for best quote of this thread. Hell maybe even the entire forum.
Yours is the only credible story that the iPhone isn't doing well in a country. I wonder if we'll ever get a per-country or carrier breakdown of sales or activations.
I am just reporting what my friends inside of Sonera are saying. I do know for a fact though that Sonera is calling and asking if people want to come down and get a phone. Sort of funny how this has turned out. I think I posted back on the 11th of June that Sonera had a raffle to offer 200 lucky people the chance to have the iPhone first in Finland. Only 1000 people were allowed to enter the contest with 200 names being drawn at midnight. I texted messaged 4 or 5 times, from 4 or 5 different numbers to enter. At 23:50 I received replies on all of my phones that I had won. Meaning that less than 200 people had entered the contest. I am curious to see how Sonera will handle this as the Finns simply will not pay full price for a locked phone.
All advanced cell phones are added to the total sales of cellphones but Apple is competing directly against other smartphones. Just like other smartphones that are being geared toward multimedia are competing against the iPhone. You don't see the Samsung Instinct commercials comparing itself favourably to a free, throwaway phone, do you?
No, but if someone is buying a new phone, they will decide which features they need, a simple phone, mid range, or a smartphone, and then buy one of those. Meaning each category of device is competing against the other.
Compete on price or compete on profit? If you mean price then you must be comparing the iPhone to other non-smartphones with little on-board storage. The results have shown the iPhone to be quite competitive on price. But before it came out paying $800-$1000 for the smartphones was not unheard of a hefty SSD capacity included.
Are you referring to US$? But even still, I have not paid anywhere near that much money for a smart phone for several years
No, but if someone is buying a new phone, they will decide which features they need, a simple phone, mid range, or a smartphone, and then buy one of those. Meaning each category of device is competing against the other.
I see what you are saying but I disagree with the rationale. One is a comparison of a category and the other is a specific product within a category. The smartphone category is directly competing with mid-range and simple cellphone categories, but the iPhone product is directly competing against other smartphones.
Aren't you comparing apples with oranges then? It would be like not separating all vehicle sales from trucks in your sales stats.
Aren't you comparing apples with oranges then? It would be like not separating all vehicle sales from trucks in your sales stats.
no, that would be like not separating BMW M3 sales, from Ford Focus sales.
IR beaming is pretty damn handy on the dating scene but then not everyone is on the dating scene!
No, but if someone is buying a new phone, they will decide which features they need, a simple phone, mid range, or a smartphone, and then buy one of those. Meaning each category of device is competing against the other.
I disagree. If someone is looking for a full QWERTY keyboard and internet they are not looking at low end phones at all. If someone wants a free phone and low monthly bill they are not really looking at a smartphone at all. Midrange phones somewhat bridge the gap in features and cost.
Are you referring to US$? But even still, I have not paid anywhere near that much money for a smart phone for several years
That's because you are only buying subsidized phones with contract. You pay full price for an unsubsidized phone and no contract.
The bar-code thing sounds cool, though, if used widely. I bet if Apple added that the the software, the practice would suddenly catch on outside Japan. I especially like the idea of scanning a business card to load a contact.
No, they are competing against all cellphone sales.
You don't read anything, do you? They are not competing against all cellphone sales. This has been stated over and again.
If you don't understand that basic fact, then there's no point in your bothering to be in a discussion about it.
No, why would I. I don't live in Japan, and I have no interest in the Japanese phone market. I was just replying to your phone regarding a subjective article. What does "doing quite well in Japan" mean? .05% market share, 1% market share, what exactly?
The articles have been written, and published here. You obviously do read things here, or you wouldn't be on this thread.
Re-read the article. It's very clear as to what they mean.
Yes, at the end of 2007 they were around 14.5% market share, compared to Nokia's 39%
Yes, a tripling of marketshare.
As I have said, they are competing in all mobile phone sales, the majority of people do not go out and purchase a cheap phone, and a smart phone, they will purchase one phone.
Also, the other manufactures are in a better position to compete on price as well, something Apple doesn't like doing.
Say it until you're blue in the face, but you are still wrong.
Just bought myself a Nikon D300. Love it.
Good camera. I'm a Canon person myself, but both are very good.
Oh, there will be causualties. There always are. The market will consolidate as it matures, and only the strongest will survive.
But it's also looking dimmer for Android. I'm not so sure it will make it.
Might depend on what the goals are for Android. I foresee little market overlap between Android and the iPhone or other smartphones. Rather I think Android is gunning for Symbian OS to replace it as the dominant system on non-smart phones worldwide. This will be a significant market for years to come. And let's face it, if Android is half as good as its demos, it will be 10x as good as any Symbian-based phone I've ever used.
I think the "knowing" part is more visual rather than information based. Here in Finland, where I am currently posted, I see hardly any iPhones, but rather than trust my eyes, I talk to my friends at Sonera. They say that the iPhone did okay, but not as well as expected. This is further borne out by the fact that you can walk into any Sonera shop, or other outlet and get an iPhone of choice, black, white, 16 gig, 8 gig. No waiting. This would imply that there is plenty of stock on hand. Several of my co-workers that ordered iPhones are still getting calls to see if they want to come down and pick one up. In this instance it would be easy to assume that the iPhone was not as big a hit as it was else where. Maybe Sonera will release some sales figures to back this up. For the most part, Finns do not like the locked in part of the iPhone contracts. It is a matter of the subscription terms rather than price.
Which people exactly. I do not think there are any iPhone haters here. The debates seem balanced actually. Some see things one way, while others see them another way.
Oh, there are some iPhone haters here. Possibly they are also Apple haters. I see those around, as I'm sure we all do.
They jump at anything Apple, as the MS haters jump at anything MS.
I bet you a Pepsi, you will soon see a report that the iPhone is doing poorly in Japan.
If we could figure out how to implement that, it would be fine with me.
Oh, there are some iPhone haters here. Possibly they are also Apple haters. I see those around, as I'm sure we all do.
They jump at anything Apple, as the MS haters jump at anything MS.
If we could figure out how to implement that, it would be fine with me.
I may be back in the US for some meetings and training. New Jersey isn't that far from NY.
Might depend on what the goals are for Android. I foresee little market overlap between Android and the iPhone or other smartphones. Rather I think Android is gunning for Symbian OS to replace it as the dominant system on non-smart phones worldwide. This will be a significant market for years to come. And let's face it, if Android is half as good as its demos, it will be 10x as good as any Symbian-based phone I've ever used.
It's having a lot of problems now though. Developers are fuming about the way Google is keeping the updates secret from most of them. Updates are long in coming, even for the very few developers who are getting them. The developmental environment is criticized as being inadequate. Developers are moving to the iPhone. Developers are also criticizing the fact that it allows too many physical differences between phones, making development much more difficult.
The one phone that is supposed to be coming out with Android has been delayed for the second time, etc.
Lots of problems.
I may be back in the US for some meetings and training. New Jersey isn't that far from NY.
Well, let me know.
I disagree. If someone is looking for a full QWERTY keyboard and internet they are not looking at low end phones at all. If someone wants a free phone and low monthly bill they are not really looking at a smartphone at all. Midrange phones somewhat bridge the gap in features and cost.
So you are saying that the person wanting a fully qwerty keyboard phone will buy one of them, and a cheap phone as well? Yeah that makes sense, you must have too much money if you can purchase two devices when one will do.
Most people will purchase one, or the other device, not both, so that makes them in competition with each other.
That's because you are only buying subsidized phones with contract. You pay full price for an unsubsidized phone and no contract.
I have never purchased a subsidised phone
You don't read anything, do you? They are not competing against all cellphone sales. This has been stated over and again.
If you don't understand that basic fact, then there's no point in your bothering to be in a discussion about it.
No, I understand it perfectly. If I am purchasing a new phone, I choose what features I want, then purhase a model that will support that. ie Do I get phone that just supports MMS/SMS/Voice, or do I get something more, like installable applications etc.
I would purchase one of them, not both, so that makes the devices in competition to each other.
The same concept with a ?2000 Mac, it is in competition with a ?500 Dell, they might not be in the same category as each other, but they are still in competiion with each other.