So you are saying that the person wanting a fully qwerty keyboard phone will buy one of them, and a cheap phone as well? Yeah that makes sense, you must have too much money if you can purchase two devices when one will do.
Most people will purchase one, or the other device, not both, so that makes them in competition with each other.
Not completely true. I have an iPhone, and a Nokia N82 (I consider this phone better in many respects but the iPhone also provides more), and I am not rich. The government is not that great an employer. I have two or more devices because, well I want them. So I plan for them. I save my money and then I buy them. Here in Finland it is quite common for most people to have 2 or more phones, in use with different numbers, at the same time. Nothing odd about this at all in my opinion.
So you are saying that the person wanting a fully qwerty keyboard phone will buy one of them, and a cheap phone as well? Yeah that makes sense, you must have too much money if you can purchase two devices when one will do.
That's not what I said at all. I'm not sure how you got this from it.
Quote:
Most people will purchase one, or the other device, not both, so that makes them in competition with each other.
Yes people generally buy one or the other. But they don't directly compete with each other because they offer differing features at differing prices.
No, I understand it perfectly. If I am purchasing a new phone, I choose what features I want, then purhase a model that will support that. ie Do I get phone that just supports MMS/SMS/Voice, or do I get something more, like installable applications etc.
I would purchase one of them, not both, so that makes the devices in competition to each other.
The same concept with a ?2000 Mac, it is in competition with a ?500 Dell, they might not be in the same category as each other, but they are still in competiion with each other.
This is a silly semantic argument. Two cans and some string are competing with HAM radio are competing with a megaphone. Right.
The point is that no one is spending any effort to sell grandma "I want a phone with 3 buttons: call grandkids, call best friend, and call 911" an iPhone.
No, I understand it perfectly. If I am purchasing a new phone, I choose what features I want, then purhase a model that will support that. ie Do I get phone that just supports MMS/SMS/Voice, or do I get something more, like installable applications etc.
I would purchase one of them, not both, so that makes the devices in competition to each other.
The same concept with a €2000 Mac, it is in competition with a €500 Dell, they might not be in the same category as each other, but they are still in competiion with each other.
Thats not correct though. Firstly, you are using only one example of a feature. Most people will forgo one feature like that for other, more compelling features.
Also, someone who has the money to buy a $2,000 computer is not likely to want a $500 model.
Until they actually release the Japanese iphone sales number --- all this talk is pure PR BS.
This.
The article concludes that the iPhone is rocking Japan based on a month's worth of subscription shifts, a non-Japanese's view of how the market may swing towards the iPhone, and by shoving the iPhone's lack of Japan-centric features like 1-Seg aside.
This article wouldn't fool anyone who lives in Japan.
Also, someone who has the money to buy a $2,000 computer is not likely to want a $500 model.
There is a concept called saving, that is why the person had the 2000 in the first place, and why Apple sells a number of different mobile Macs, and why there are a number of different styles of cellphones. Just because the person has the money, doesn't mean they will spend it all.
There is a concept called saving, that is why the person had the 2000 in the first place, and why Apple sells a number of different mobile Macs, and why there are a number of different styles of cellphones. Just because the person has the money, doesn't mean they will spend it all.
So if they aren't willing ot spend $2000 on a computer (regardless if they can afford it) then they aren't in the market for a $2000 computer.
This is a silly semantic argument. Two cans and some string are competing with HAM radio are competing with a megaphone. Right.
You are taking it a bit far, but when you have two products where the base features are the same (ie a basic phone, and a smart phone) where you can choose one or the other, then they are in competition with each other.
It is a simple concept to understand.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Booga
The point is that no one is spending any effort to sell grandma "I want a phone with 3 buttons: call grandkids, call best friend, and call 911" an iPhone.
Um, yes they are, except they are selling them to parents, to give to their kids
So if they aren't willing ot spend $2000 on a computer (regardless if they can afford it) then they aren't in the market for a $2000 computer.
It doesn't matter if they are in the market for it or not, it is the fact that the person who is spending the money had a choice of two different items to purchase, they can purchase, one, or the other, or both.
If they only purchase one, then the other missed out on the sale, so they lost the sale to the competition...
That is why companies have several products that sometimes overlap in features (ie Apple with 8 different notebook models), as they would rather get the sale, than someone else getting it
It doesn't matter if they are in the market for it or not, it is the fact that the person who is spending the money had a choice of two different items to purchase, they can purchase, one, or the other, or both.
If they only purchase one, then the other missed out on the sale, so they lost the sale to the competition...
That is why companies have several products that sometimes overlap in features (ie Apple with 8 different notebook models), as they would rather get the sale, than someone else getting it
But apple doesn't have a notebook under $1100, so they aren't competing in the budget, 2-year+old HW notebook market.
Having money for something doesn't mean that the markets are all competing. That is like saying that Delta Airlines is competing with McDonalds because I might forego a $5 value meal because I'm getting peanuts and soft drink on the flight.
But apple doesn't have a notebook under $1100, so they aren't competing in the budget, 2-year+old HW notebook market.
That is because they only want to compete in the high profit categories
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism
Having money for something doesn't mean that the markets are all competing. That is like saying that Delta Airlines is competing with McDonalds because I might forego a $5 value meal because I'm getting peanuts and soft drink on the flight.
No it doesn't. Two airlines compete, they are in the same market, like two mobile phones compete as they are in the same market
Japanese users understand the limitations of communicating via messaging, and they would not rely on it without using emoji to compliment the message. For example, Everyone is talking about you comes across differently than [I]Everyone is talking about you.
The Japanese language, isn't the use of emoji almost a necessity? What I mean is, doesn't the Japanese language itself require this type of communication so as to fully duplicate what the other guy is saying?
Are you referring to US$? But even still, I have not paid anywhere near that much money for a smart phone for several years
Here is the new Nokia N96. The battery life is bad. Only 3.6 hours of GSM talk time. OUch! Almost 1/3 of the iPhone's, though it is best to wait for real world testing when it comes to battery life.
The storage is only 256MB, but it has dual SD slots for a maximum of 16GB of storage so that would be extra, but you swap them out for a lot of additional storage if that suits your needs.
It doesn't do it for me for many reasons but it will definitely be a popular phone in its own right and mostly likely have a better a call quality than the iPhone.
Saying many is a little extreme, Motorola maybe. The other big names manufactures will be fine.
I think Apple's contribution to Motorola's decline is minimal. I think it's hard to attribute most of that fall to anyone other than Motorola themselves.
Quote:
Originally Posted by GQB
Those nay-sayers always seemed to think that the Japanese are incapable of valuing usability of base features on a smartphone.
I don't think that's unrealistic though. It seems that most Japanese designed consumer user interfaces leave much to be desired, even though the core hardware can be pretty good.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jfanning
No, they are competing against all cellphone sales.
That's not true. Someone that just wants a phone probably isn't going to buy an iPhone. Different classes of devices. That's like saying Macs are competing with eMachines. The typical eMachines buyer is unlikely to consider a Mac after looking at the price. A Mac user probably isn't going to consider an eMachines at all.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jfanning
no, that would be like not separating BMW M3 sales, from Ford Focus sales.
In terms of set theory, the overlap between the two sets of buyers has to be negligible to minimal at best, and that overlap can safely be ignored. They are only competing in the broadest interpretation of the word. A 1% overlap would be an extremely generous estimate.
Here is the new Nokia N96. The battery life is bad. Only 3.6 hours of GSM talk time. OUch! Almost 1/3 of the iPhone's, though it is best to wait for real world testing when it comes to battery life.
The storage is only 256MB, but it has dual SD slots for a maximum of 16GB of storage so that would be extra, but you swap them out for a lot of additional storage if that suits your needs.
It doesn't do it for me for many reasons but it will definitely be a popular phone in its own right and mostly likely have a better a call quality than the iPhone.
Huh? That page says it has 16GB built-in, expandable with the card slots.
You may be right. it says "internal", which for a phone would imply built-in. Looks like I read that wrong.
Why would they have "256 Mbytes of system memory (operating system plus dynamic memory for user data with another 16GB separately? Why not just use the 16GB and forego the 256MB?
edit: The only reason I see to have separate RAM for the firmware is if the incuded 16GB is not built-in, but resides in a microSD card.
Comments
So you are saying that the person wanting a fully qwerty keyboard phone will buy one of them, and a cheap phone as well? Yeah that makes sense, you must have too much money if you can purchase two devices when one will do.
Most people will purchase one, or the other device, not both, so that makes them in competition with each other.
Not completely true. I have an iPhone, and a Nokia N82 (I consider this phone better in many respects but the iPhone also provides more), and I am not rich. The government is not that great an employer. I have two or more devices because, well I want them. So I plan for them. I save my money and then I buy them. Here in Finland it is quite common for most people to have 2 or more phones, in use with different numbers, at the same time. Nothing odd about this at all in my opinion.
I have never purchased a subsidised phone
I did. Never again.
Oh, there are some iPhone haters here. Possibly they are also Apple haters. I see those around, as I'm sure we all do.
They jump at anything Apple, as the MS haters jump at anything MS.
There are also Apple lovers that hate the iPhone- but please don't tell anybody.
So you are saying that the person wanting a fully qwerty keyboard phone will buy one of them, and a cheap phone as well? Yeah that makes sense, you must have too much money if you can purchase two devices when one will do.
That's not what I said at all. I'm not sure how you got this from it.
Most people will purchase one, or the other device, not both, so that makes them in competition with each other.
Yes people generally buy one or the other. But they don't directly compete with each other because they offer differing features at differing prices.
No, I understand it perfectly. If I am purchasing a new phone, I choose what features I want, then purhase a model that will support that. ie Do I get phone that just supports MMS/SMS/Voice, or do I get something more, like installable applications etc.
I would purchase one of them, not both, so that makes the devices in competition to each other.
The same concept with a ?2000 Mac, it is in competition with a ?500 Dell, they might not be in the same category as each other, but they are still in competiion with each other.
This is a silly semantic argument. Two cans and some string are competing with HAM radio are competing with a megaphone. Right.
The point is that no one is spending any effort to sell grandma "I want a phone with 3 buttons: call grandkids, call best friend, and call 911" an iPhone.
No, I understand it perfectly. If I am purchasing a new phone, I choose what features I want, then purhase a model that will support that. ie Do I get phone that just supports MMS/SMS/Voice, or do I get something more, like installable applications etc.
I would purchase one of them, not both, so that makes the devices in competition to each other.
The same concept with a €2000 Mac, it is in competition with a €500 Dell, they might not be in the same category as each other, but they are still in competiion with each other.
Thats not correct though. Firstly, you are using only one example of a feature. Most people will forgo one feature like that for other, more compelling features.
Also, someone who has the money to buy a $2,000 computer is not likely to want a $500 model.
There are also Apple lovers that hate the iPhone- but please don't tell anybody.
Oh yes. That's why I said "Possibly" they are also Apple haters.
Guess what "quasi-push" service from Apple that delivers email went down?
You get three guesses but the first two don't count.
Yup. Me.com is hip deep in shit again.
Until they actually release the Japanese iphone sales number --- all this talk is pure PR BS.
This.
The article concludes that the iPhone is rocking Japan based on a month's worth of subscription shifts, a non-Japanese's view of how the market may swing towards the iPhone, and by shoving the iPhone's lack of Japan-centric features like 1-Seg aside.
This article wouldn't fool anyone who lives in Japan.
Also, someone who has the money to buy a $2,000 computer is not likely to want a $500 model.
There is a concept called saving, that is why the person had the 2000 in the first place, and why Apple sells a number of different mobile Macs, and why there are a number of different styles of cellphones. Just because the person has the money, doesn't mean they will spend it all.
There is a concept called saving, that is why the person had the 2000 in the first place, and why Apple sells a number of different mobile Macs, and why there are a number of different styles of cellphones. Just because the person has the money, doesn't mean they will spend it all.
So if they aren't willing ot spend $2000 on a computer (regardless if they can afford it) then they aren't in the market for a $2000 computer.
This is a silly semantic argument. Two cans and some string are competing with HAM radio are competing with a megaphone. Right.
You are taking it a bit far, but when you have two products where the base features are the same (ie a basic phone, and a smart phone) where you can choose one or the other, then they are in competition with each other.
It is a simple concept to understand.
The point is that no one is spending any effort to sell grandma "I want a phone with 3 buttons: call grandkids, call best friend, and call 911" an iPhone.
Um, yes they are, except they are selling them to parents, to give to their kids
http://www.fireflymobile.com/
So if they aren't willing ot spend $2000 on a computer (regardless if they can afford it) then they aren't in the market for a $2000 computer.
It doesn't matter if they are in the market for it or not, it is the fact that the person who is spending the money had a choice of two different items to purchase, they can purchase, one, or the other, or both.
If they only purchase one, then the other missed out on the sale, so they lost the sale to the competition...
That is why companies have several products that sometimes overlap in features (ie Apple with 8 different notebook models), as they would rather get the sale, than someone else getting it
It doesn't matter if they are in the market for it or not, it is the fact that the person who is spending the money had a choice of two different items to purchase, they can purchase, one, or the other, or both.
If they only purchase one, then the other missed out on the sale, so they lost the sale to the competition...
That is why companies have several products that sometimes overlap in features (ie Apple with 8 different notebook models), as they would rather get the sale, than someone else getting it
But apple doesn't have a notebook under $1100, so they aren't competing in the budget, 2-year+old HW notebook market.
Having money for something doesn't mean that the markets are all competing. That is like saying that Delta Airlines is competing with McDonalds because I might forego a $5 value meal because I'm getting peanuts and soft drink on the flight.
But apple doesn't have a notebook under $1100, so they aren't competing in the budget, 2-year+old HW notebook market.
That is because they only want to compete in the high profit categories
Having money for something doesn't mean that the markets are all competing. That is like saying that Delta Airlines is competing with McDonalds because I might forego a $5 value meal because I'm getting peanuts and soft drink on the flight.
No it doesn't. Two airlines compete, they are in the same market, like two mobile phones compete as they are in the same market
That is because they only want to compete in the high profit categories
There you have it!
Japanese users understand the limitations of communicating via messaging, and they would not rely on it without using emoji to compliment the message. For example, Everyone is talking about you
The Japanese language, isn't the use of emoji almost a necessity? What I mean is, doesn't the Japanese language itself require this type of communication so as to fully duplicate what the other guy is saying?
Are you referring to US$? But even still, I have not paid anywhere near that much money for a smart phone for several years
Here is the new Nokia N96. The battery life is bad. Only 3.6 hours of GSM talk time. OUch! Almost 1/3 of the iPhone's, though it is best to wait for real world testing when it comes to battery life.
The storage is only 256MB, but it has dual SD slots for a maximum of 16GB of storage so that would be extra, but you swap them out for a lot of additional storage if that suits your needs.
It doesn't do it for me for many reasons but it will definitely be a popular phone in its own right and mostly likely have a better a call quality than the iPhone.
Saying many is a little extreme, Motorola maybe. The other big names manufactures will be fine.
I think Apple's contribution to Motorola's decline is minimal. I think it's hard to attribute most of that fall to anyone other than Motorola themselves.
Those nay-sayers always seemed to think that the Japanese are incapable of valuing usability of base features on a smartphone.
I don't think that's unrealistic though. It seems that most Japanese designed consumer user interfaces leave much to be desired, even though the core hardware can be pretty good.
No, they are competing against all cellphone sales.
That's not true. Someone that just wants a phone probably isn't going to buy an iPhone. Different classes of devices. That's like saying Macs are competing with eMachines. The typical eMachines buyer is unlikely to consider a Mac after looking at the price. A Mac user probably isn't going to consider an eMachines at all.
no, that would be like not separating BMW M3 sales, from Ford Focus sales.
In terms of set theory, the overlap between the two sets of buyers has to be negligible to minimal at best, and that overlap can safely be ignored. They are only competing in the broadest interpretation of the word. A 1% overlap would be an extremely generous estimate.
Here is the new Nokia N96. The battery life is bad. Only 3.6 hours of GSM talk time. OUch! Almost 1/3 of the iPhone's, though it is best to wait for real world testing when it comes to battery life.
The storage is only 256MB, but it has dual SD slots for a maximum of 16GB of storage so that would be extra, but you swap them out for a lot of additional storage if that suits your needs.
It doesn't do it for me for many reasons but it will definitely be a popular phone in its own right and mostly likely have a better a call quality than the iPhone.
Huh? That page says it has 16GB built-in, expandable with the card slots.
Huh? That page says it has 16GB built-in, expandable with the card slots.
You may be right. it says "internal", which for a phone would imply built-in. Looks like I read that wrong.
Why would they have "256 Mbytes of system memory (operating system plus dynamic memory for user data with another 16GB separately? Why not just use the 16GB and forego the 256MB?
edit: The only reason I see to have separate RAM for the firmware is if the incuded 16GB is not built-in, but resides in a microSD card.