LOL that's hella slow dude. @ 5-6mb/sec here in Japan, four minutes would get me about 1.4GB. Sometimes I grab full DVDs in about 20 minutes. There are other locations that are even faster.
I know, pretty bad huh! That's why in Japan they STREAM live TV, not this half backed cr$p you get like with MLB, but full TV.
We are YEARS behind that - not sure how soon 4.5 will make it but it would be nice to see 3G work where advertised - I get 1.3 -1.6MB per second, on iphone, aound 700K, not 70K, but 700K or 7000kps.
Still kills me that some people still don't get it, like a friend of mine thought his 1.5Meg speed was faster than my 1.2MB from cable.
DSL/CABLE always advertise WRONG in my opinion, like mine they calll either a 10Mb ot 16MG line, his, a 1.5Mb which all translate to 1200K to his being 150K.
Meanwhile in some places (hospital in Boston, 30MEG per second), and other countries kick our butts then again, they have been NON LAND LINES for years whereas we are just starting to get to that point.
When done click on summary, it shows me faster than 92% of all connections, but our country (US) at only 88% so assume this 6MB per second is up there.
I think it's cheaper for an unlocked in the US, although if quoting Hong Kong helps bolster your point fine.
The facts boost my point. If I wanted to inflate it I would have used the $1400 prices for iPhone 3G that were on eBay. I choose to use the only non-auction company I am aware of for selling 3G iPhone unlocked to the US since you can't buy them unlocked here.
Even in the US it's barely under $600 for a 16GB iPhone 3G (the only capacity the N96 comes in) after the initial price plus one month service plus early termination fee... and it's still locked to AT&T.
As soon as you compare an iPhone 3G to an N96, YOU have lost all credibility. Not only is the N96 insanely expensive ($600, compared to iPhone 3G at $199 for the same storage capacity), but it is running a highly underdeveloped software (Symbian OS) that is nowhere near the level of sophistication as the iPhone OS. Also, while many people complain about the lack of a "real" keyboard on the iPhone, a virtual QWERTY keyboard is so much better than basic T9. If Nokia wants to market the N96 as a mini-computer, shouldn't it include something all computers have - a full keyboard? Also, syncing is not nearly as sophisticated as with the iPhone, as there is no comparison to the integration between iTunes and iPods/iPhones. And as far as the openness of the platform goes, apparently you haven't heard of the iPhone SDK or the App Store on iTunes, where there are literally thousands of applications for every need. I would rather omit copy/paste than have to use T9 on a glorified music phone that will take me ten times as long than what I am doing with my "fake" keyboard.
The SDK, while an achievement, only does the job for a limited area of apps (games and web search, essentially) that are approved and controlled not only by Apple but also the network operators (as the NetShare story attests). The bottom line is N96 would allow me to use a much wider choice of almost any apps I can download on the web (including Skype, for instance ...). The SDK is not even comparable in terms of choice, therefore.
And, by the way, you reminded me of the absolutely annoying text editor on iPhone which (by contrast to the usual T9 everywhere else) cannot be disabled ...
The facts boost my point. If I wanted to inflate it I would have used the $1400 prices for iPhone 3G that were on eBay. I choose to use the only non-auction company I am aware of for selling 3G iPhone unlocked to the US since you can't buy them unlocked here.
Even in the US it's barely under $600 for a 16GB iPhone 3G (the only capacity the N96 comes in) after the initial price plus one month service plus early termination fee... and it's still locked to AT&T.
I'll sell you mine for mine for five thousand dollars.
How's THAT for making up stuff to boost your point?
So now we're going to use how OPEN a device is to decide the superior phone? Hackers of the world unit, phones are going to be OPEN!
What is the connection between the protection from hacking on the one hand, and the recent removal of the NetShare (definitely the most functional of all iPhone apps that were released by way of the SDK) on the other?
This only attest that you are extremely naïve if you think that - by way of its currently very limited third-party iPhone app environment - Apple wants to protect itself (and you) from undesirable online interference, rather than merely wants to develop a convenient monopoly.
I'll sell you mine for mine for five thousand dollars.
How's THAT for making up stuff to boost your point?
As stated, my easily verifiable facts speak for themselves. You have tried to cloud the debate by comparing an 8GB, locked, and contracted iPhone to a 16GB, unlocked and contract-free device.
What is the connection between the protection from hacking on the one hand, and the recent removal of the NetShare (definitely the most functional of all iPhone apps that were released by way of the SDK) on the other?
This only attest that you are extremely naïve if you think that - by way of its currently very limited third-party iPhone app environment - Apple wants to protect itself (and you) from undesirable online interference, rather than merely wants to develop a convenient monopoly.
As stated, my easily verifiable facts speak for themselves. You have tried to cloud the debate by comparing an 8GB, locked, and contracted iPhone to a 16GB, unlocked and contract-free device.
You make good points a lot of the time, your logic is all over the place on this one.
If someone wants to quote the 199 price for a contract based phone against
a unsubsidized phone for 600 bucks, call'em on it.
Unless they are ACTUALLY IN Hong Kong, using a price quote for Hong Kong just because it sounds larger.... well that just SOUNDS like you're "reaching" to boost your point. You HAVE a good point, you didn't just try to make it.
You can't talk about how tough it is to end up with a locked phone, and compare it to prices people pay in a country where phone are locked. (for example)
199 to 600 bucks was wrong.
Saying the 199 would be 1000 if it was Hong Kong didn't make any sense.
Let's make some sense, win your point and move on.
BTW:Anyone really wants my iPhone I'll cut my price to 2500 and you can PM me with interest.
The facts boost my point. If I wanted to inflate it I would have used the $1400 prices for iPhone 3G that were on eBay. I choose to use the only non-auction company I am aware of for selling 3G iPhone unlocked to the US since you can't buy them unlocked here.
Even in the US it's barely under $600 for a 16GB iPhone 3G (the only capacity the N96 comes in) after the initial price plus one month service plus early termination fee... and it's still locked to AT&T.
solipsism, you are definitely right.
I didn't even want to go into the ignorance of an argument that N96 is in a different price league from iPhone.
Hence, you provided your reply ... This was just to respond to your last statement:
YES, an increased - albeit not total - openness of the operating platform is among benchmarks (but not the sole one) whereby I would measure how good is a given smartphone.
YES, an increased - albeit not total - openness of the operating platform is among benchmarks (but not the sole one) whereby I would measure how good is a given smartphone.
I understand.
There will always be people that will value the ability of that Nokia phone to run Skype for you(your example), over a real web browsing experience.
I think the major point for me is that the iPhone is not meant to take people
with high end smart phones already and convert them to the iPhone.
It's not meant to take people that have specific apps like Skype and convert them
at the expense of Apple's relationship with certain carriers.
It's meant to take consumers that have not seen smartphones as being very interesting
or easy to use, and move them to purchase.
Obviously trying to convert current smartphone users to the iPhone would be
going for the minority of phone users and not very smart.
Enjoy Skype.
(*Enjoyed your comment that the iPhone SDK is just for games and stuff*)
You make good points a lot of the time, your logic is all over the place on this one.
If someone wants to quote the 199 price for a contract based phone against
a unsubsidized phone for 600 bucks, call'em on it.
Unless they are ACTUALLY IN Hong Kong, using a price quote for Hong Kong just because it sounds larger.... well that just SOUNDS like you're "reaching" to boost your point. You HAVE a good point, you didn't just try to make it.
You can't talk about how tough it is to end up with a locked phone, and compare it to prices people pay in a country where phone are locked. (for example)
199 to 600 bucks was wrong.
Saying the 199 would be 1000 if it was Hong Kong didn't make any sense.
Let's make some sense, win your point and move on.
BTW:Anyone really wants my iPhone I'll cut my price to 2500 and you can PM me with interest.
Lets examine what hittjr01 stated. There was a lot more to the post and much of it I would disagree with but a lot of it depends on one POV so I'll only rehash what I've already quoted.
Quote:
Originally Posted by hittrj01
As soon as you compare an iPhone 3G to an N96, YOU have lost all credibility. Not only is the N96 insanely expensive ($600, compared to iPhone 3G at $199 for the same storage capacity)
First of all, the price he lists of $199 is for an 8GB iPhone, yet the N96's lowest capacity is 16GB. This isn't much of a fault except that he clearly states that they are same storage capacity. This is a verifiable fact.
The next thing is the price. Even using the same capacity the iPhone is only $300 for when you don't consider the contract involved. This is a verifiable fact.
If you want to cancel your account after the first month the price is about $550, but it's still locked to AT&T. This is a verifiable fact.
The cheapest unlocked iPhone 3G I saw was for $1000 on Engadget but that turns out to be incorrect. If you go to the site the '3G' is replaced by 'Original' in the image, but not in the title. With the links provided, this is a verifiable fact.
I had no need to use the highest price I saw of which was $1400 on eBay because $1000 was high enough and I figure the eBay prices have gone down since I was last monitoring the sales. Your hyperboolic comment about selling your iPhone for $5000 makes no sense as it's about the device can sell for not what you are willing to sell it for. The current eBay listinga have prices that show that around $1000 is probably the going rate for a new, unlocked, 16GB iPhone 3G. With the link provided, you can verify this for yourself.
I think the major point for me is that the iPhone is not meant to take people with high end smart phones already and convert them to the iPhone. It's not meant to take people that have specific apps like Skype and convert them at the expense of Apple's relationship with certain carriers. It's meant to take consumers that have not seen smartphones as being very interesting or easy to use, and move them to purchase.
Now this I can agree with!
PS: You could use Skype on a Jailbroken iPhone prior to the v2.0 update. I'm not sure if they've ported it. If Skype actually creates an app for the iPhone (and I think they will) it will only be allowed to be used over WiFi as one would expect with the carrier relationships with Apple.
PS: You could use Skype on a Jailbroken iPhone prior to the v2.0 update. I'm not sure if they've ported it. If Skype actually creates an app for the iPhone (and I think they will) it will only be allowed to be used over WiFi as one would expect with the carrier relationships with Apple.
Agreed.
But if people want to "rate" one smartphone against another on the basis of the ability of a developer to build anything they want (a Skype clone) and distribute no matter what onto any carrier using that handset, well those people can just go buy any phone they want and ignore the iPhone. There are not enough of those kind of people to matter at ALL in the sales of iPhones or any other handset for that matter.
There may be all kinds of apps like Skype, that "the community" out there will find a way to get onto an iPhone. Expecting Apple to facilitate or cooperate with those people against the interests of the carriers that Apple works with is silly.
Again, "the people that actually think that" won't make the silliest little dent in Iphone sales.... just buy the Nokia and quiet bitching about it.
There will be a lot of smarter phones out there.
There will be a lot of ways to distinguish one from another.
Saying that the iPhone can't do a lot of specific purpose things that others
can do will be true. (depending on actually picking things that are fact and not making
stuff up!) It will also be true that some phones will be cheaper.
The iPhone is trying to put the best internet screen size, clarity, and browsing actions
into the hands fo non-smartphone users to bring them in and make the tent bigger.
The is one way the iPhone is better than any smartphone bar none.
It will attract more non-smartphone users to the market segment than any other handset.
Advanced Smartphone users need to stop complaining and just deal with it......
There will always be people that will value the ability of that Nokia phone to run Skype for you(your example), over a real web browsing experience.
I think the major point for me is that the iPhone is not meant to take people
with high end smart phones already and convert them to the iPhone.
It's not meant to take people that have specific apps like Skype and convert them
at the expense of Apple's relationship with certain carriers.
It's meant to take consumers that have not seen smartphones as being very interesting
or easy to use, and move them to purchase.
Obviously trying to convert current smartphone users to the iPhone would be
going for the minority of phone users and not very smart.
An element that is being left out of this comparison of the iPhone and other platforms. These other mobile platforms are coming to 10 years old. It took years to develop them to the point were they are now.
The iPhone is an entirely new platform that is a year old. Apple is adding to it step by step like everyone else has had to do.
There seems to be some expectation that Apple should be able to launch a new phone that immediately does everything every other phone is capable of doing with no bugs or problems.
This is a feat no one else has been able to perform.
PS: You could use Skype on a Jailbroken iPhone prior to the v2.0 update. I'm not sure if they've ported it. If Skype actually creates an app for the iPhone (and I think they will) it will only be allowed to be used over WiFi as one would expect with the carrier relationships with Apple.
From what I've heard a lot of Apps are waiting for Apple to solidify the API's needed for them to work. Seeing as their are no native VOIP apps, I imagine they are also waiting.
But if people want to "rate" one smartphone against another on the basis of the ability of a developer to build anything they want (a Skype clone) and distribute no matter what onto any carrier using that handset, well those people can just go buy any phone they want and ignore the iPhone. There are not enough of those kind of people to matter at ALL in the sales of iPhones or any other handset for that matter.
There may be all kinds of apps like Skype, that "the community" out there will find a way to get onto an iPhone. Expecting Apple to facilitate or cooperate with those people against the interests of the carriers that Apple works with is silly.
Again, "the people that actually think that" won't make the silliest little dent in Iphone sales.... just buy the Nokia and quiet bitching about it.
There will be a lot of smarter phones out there.
There will be a lot of ways to distinguish one from another.
Saying that the iPhone can't do a lot of specific purpose things that others
can do will be true. (depending on actually picking things that are fact and not making
stuff up!) It will also be true that some phones will be cheaper.
The iPhone is trying to put the best internet screen size, clarity, and browsing actions
into the hands fo non-smartphone users to bring them in and make the tent bigger.
The is one way the iPhone is better than any smartphone bar none.
It will attract more non-smartphone users to the market segment than any other handset.
Advanced Smartphone users need to stop complaining and just deal with it......
Besides attracting previously non-smartphone users to the iPhone the "smartphones are only for geeks or hardcore business users" moniker has been lifted so it's very existence is increasing other smartphone sales.
As for other smartphone users complaining about the iPhone not offering what they need, that is fine as it's not meant to fit everyone's needs. But they aren't looking at the big picture. How the other companies are getting off their asses to create a better product to compete against the iPhone. All smartphone users should be glad that the iPhone has entered the market and set a fire under their favourite smartphone manufacturer.
Nokia has publicly admitted to have a poor user interface and bought a Spanish company earlier this year to assist with this. I think that is what they bought them for. They are also working with Mozilla to provide FF for their handsets. I wish they would go with Webkit since it's a better mobile engine but I understand their desire to set themselves apart from Safari. RiM is coming out with physical keyboard-less phone. Who would have though that would ever happen 2 years ago?
Besides attracting previously non-smartphone users to the iPhone the "smartphones are only for geeks or hardcore business users" moniker has been lifted so it's very existence is increasing other smartphone sales.
As for other smartphone users complaining about the iPhone not offering what they need, that is fine as it's not meant to fit everyone's needs. But they aren't looking at the big picture. How the other companies are getting off their asses to create a better product to compete against the iPhone. All smartphone users should be glad that the iPhone has entered the market and set a fire under their favourite smartphone manufacturer.
Nokia has publicly admitted to have a poor user interface and bought a Spanish company earlier this year to assist with this. I think that is what they bought them for. They are also working with Mozilla to provide FF for their handsets. I wish they would go with Webkit since it's a better mobile engine but I understand their desire to set themselves apart from Safari. RiM is coming out with physical keyboard-less phone. Who would have though that would ever happen 2 years ago?
Agreed.
Two years ago, a LOT OF PEOPLE said Apple had no chance against such a market leader as Motorola!
The iPhone is a game changer, and there is plenty of room for other smart phones.
And as you said, the amount of room that there is, is much larger because the
Forigve me for my comment, I was thinking of the N95. You are correct, the N96 is 16GB, but the 16GB iPhone is still only 299. I understand the point between locked and unlocked phones, but regardless, you're still going to have to get some kind of phone service, whether in Hong Kong, United States, or anywhere else. You also have to realize the phone market is much different in the US, phones are locked to specific carriers, whereas most phones overseas are not. Also, here in the US, AT&T would be my best option for a GSM phone anyway, because T-Mobile's US network is absolutely horrid, so being locked to AT&T is not an issue. So, as was my original point, here in the US, I would rather buy an iPhone for 300 bucks than get an N96 for twice that and have to type away on T9 or triple tap on each key if I don't want the word prediction, which quite frankly, the iPhone is brilliant at.
Comments
LOL that's hella slow dude. @ 5-6mb/sec here in Japan, four minutes would get me about 1.4GB. Sometimes I grab full DVDs in about 20 minutes. There are other locations that are even faster.
I know, pretty bad huh! That's why in Japan they STREAM live TV, not this half backed cr$p you get like with MLB, but full TV.
We are YEARS behind that - not sure how soon 4.5 will make it but it would be nice to see 3G work where advertised - I get 1.3 -1.6MB per second, on iphone, aound 700K, not 70K, but 700K or 7000kps.
Still kills me that some people still don't get it, like a friend of mine thought his 1.5Meg speed was faster than my 1.2MB from cable.
DSL/CABLE always advertise WRONG in my opinion, like mine they calll either a 10Mb ot 16MG line, his, a 1.5Mb which all translate to 1200K to his being 150K.
Meanwhile in some places (hospital in Boston, 30MEG per second), and other countries kick our butts then again, they have been NON LAND LINES for years whereas we are just starting to get to that point.
With regard to speeds...
I like this....
http://www.speedtest.net/
When done click on summary, it shows me faster than 92% of all connections, but our country (US) at only 88% so assume this 6MB per second is up there.
I think it's cheaper for an unlocked in the US, although if quoting Hong Kong helps bolster your point fine.
The facts boost my point. If I wanted to inflate it I would have used the $1400 prices for iPhone 3G that were on eBay. I choose to use the only non-auction company I am aware of for selling 3G iPhone unlocked to the US since you can't buy them unlocked here.
Even in the US it's barely under $600 for a 16GB iPhone 3G (the only capacity the N96 comes in) after the initial price plus one month service plus early termination fee... and it's still locked to AT&T.
As soon as you compare an iPhone 3G to an N96, YOU have lost all credibility. Not only is the N96 insanely expensive ($600, compared to iPhone 3G at $199 for the same storage capacity), but it is running a highly underdeveloped software (Symbian OS) that is nowhere near the level of sophistication as the iPhone OS. Also, while many people complain about the lack of a "real" keyboard on the iPhone, a virtual QWERTY keyboard is so much better than basic T9. If Nokia wants to market the N96 as a mini-computer, shouldn't it include something all computers have - a full keyboard? Also, syncing is not nearly as sophisticated as with the iPhone, as there is no comparison to the integration between iTunes and iPods/iPhones. And as far as the openness of the platform goes, apparently you haven't heard of the iPhone SDK or the App Store on iTunes, where there are literally thousands of applications for every need. I would rather omit copy/paste than have to use T9 on a glorified music phone that will take me ten times as long than what I am doing with my "fake" keyboard.
The SDK, while an achievement, only does the job for a limited area of apps (games and web search, essentially) that are approved and controlled not only by Apple but also the network operators (as the NetShare story attests). The bottom line is N96 would allow me to use a much wider choice of almost any apps I can download on the web (including Skype, for instance ...). The SDK is not even comparable in terms of choice, therefore.
And, by the way, you reminded me of the absolutely annoying text editor on iPhone which (by contrast to the usual T9 everywhere else) cannot be disabled ...
The facts boost my point. If I wanted to inflate it I would have used the $1400 prices for iPhone 3G that were on eBay. I choose to use the only non-auction company I am aware of for selling 3G iPhone unlocked to the US since you can't buy them unlocked here.
Even in the US it's barely under $600 for a 16GB iPhone 3G (the only capacity the N96 comes in) after the initial price plus one month service plus early termination fee... and it's still locked to AT&T.
I'll sell you mine for mine for five thousand dollars.
How's THAT for making up stuff to boost your point?
So now we're going to use how OPEN a device is to decide the superior phone? Hackers of the world unit, phones are going to be OPEN!
What is the connection between the protection from hacking on the one hand, and the recent removal of the NetShare (definitely the most functional of all iPhone apps that were released by way of the SDK) on the other?
This only attest that you are extremely naïve if you think that - by way of its currently very limited third-party iPhone app environment - Apple wants to protect itself (and you) from undesirable online interference, rather than merely wants to develop a convenient monopoly.
I'll sell you mine for mine for five thousand dollars.
How's THAT for making up stuff to boost your point?
As stated, my easily verifiable facts speak for themselves. You have tried to cloud the debate by comparing an 8GB, locked, and contracted iPhone to a 16GB, unlocked and contract-free device.
What is the connection between the protection from hacking on the one hand, and the recent removal of the NetShare (definitely the most functional of all iPhone apps that were released by way of the SDK) on the other?
This only attest that you are extremely naïve if you think that - by way of its currently very limited third-party iPhone app environment - Apple wants to protect itself (and you) from undesirable online interference, rather than merely wants to develop a convenient monopoly.
I never said ANYTHING about NetShare did I?
Wiley Miller would be proud of you......
As stated, my easily verifiable facts speak for themselves. You have tried to cloud the debate by comparing an 8GB, locked, and contracted iPhone to a 16GB, unlocked and contract-free device.
You make good points a lot of the time, your logic is all over the place on this one.
If someone wants to quote the 199 price for a contract based phone against
a unsubsidized phone for 600 bucks, call'em on it.
Unless they are ACTUALLY IN Hong Kong, using a price quote for Hong Kong just because it sounds larger.... well that just SOUNDS like you're "reaching" to boost your point. You HAVE a good point, you didn't just try to make it.
You can't talk about how tough it is to end up with a locked phone, and compare it to prices people pay in a country where phone are locked. (for example)
199 to 600 bucks was wrong.
Saying the 199 would be 1000 if it was Hong Kong didn't make any sense.
Let's make some sense, win your point and move on.
BTW:Anyone really wants my iPhone I'll cut my price to 2500 and you can PM me with interest.
The facts boost my point. If I wanted to inflate it I would have used the $1400 prices for iPhone 3G that were on eBay. I choose to use the only non-auction company I am aware of for selling 3G iPhone unlocked to the US since you can't buy them unlocked here.
Even in the US it's barely under $600 for a 16GB iPhone 3G (the only capacity the N96 comes in) after the initial price plus one month service plus early termination fee... and it's still locked to AT&T.
solipsism, you are definitely right.
I didn't even want to go into the ignorance of an argument that N96 is in a different price league from iPhone.
I never said ANYTHING about NetShare did I?
Wiley Miller would be proud of you......
Hence, you provided your reply ... This was just to respond to your last statement:
YES, an increased - albeit not total - openness of the operating platform is among benchmarks (but not the sole one) whereby I would measure how good is a given smartphone.
YES, an increased - albeit not total - openness of the operating platform is among benchmarks (but not the sole one) whereby I would measure how good is a given smartphone.
I understand.
There will always be people that will value the ability of that Nokia phone to run Skype for you(your example), over a real web browsing experience.
I think the major point for me is that the iPhone is not meant to take people
with high end smart phones already and convert them to the iPhone.
It's not meant to take people that have specific apps like Skype and convert them
at the expense of Apple's relationship with certain carriers.
It's meant to take consumers that have not seen smartphones as being very interesting
or easy to use, and move them to purchase.
Obviously trying to convert current smartphone users to the iPhone would be
going for the minority of phone users and not very smart.
Enjoy Skype.
(*Enjoyed your comment that the iPhone SDK is just for games and stuff*)
You make good points a lot of the time, your logic is all over the place on this one.
If someone wants to quote the 199 price for a contract based phone against
a unsubsidized phone for 600 bucks, call'em on it.
Unless they are ACTUALLY IN Hong Kong, using a price quote for Hong Kong just because it sounds larger.... well that just SOUNDS like you're "reaching" to boost your point. You HAVE a good point, you didn't just try to make it.
You can't talk about how tough it is to end up with a locked phone, and compare it to prices people pay in a country where phone are locked. (for example)
199 to 600 bucks was wrong.
Saying the 199 would be 1000 if it was Hong Kong didn't make any sense.
Let's make some sense, win your point and move on.
BTW:Anyone really wants my iPhone I'll cut my price to 2500 and you can PM me with interest.
Lets examine what hittjr01 stated. There was a lot more to the post and much of it I would disagree with but a lot of it depends on one POV so I'll only rehash what I've already quoted.
As soon as you compare an iPhone 3G to an N96, YOU have lost all credibility. Not only is the N96 insanely expensive ($600, compared to iPhone 3G at $199 for the same storage capacity)
First of all, the price he lists of $199 is for an 8GB iPhone, yet the N96's lowest capacity is 16GB. This isn't much of a fault except that he clearly states that they are same storage capacity. This is a verifiable fact.
The next thing is the price. Even using the same capacity the iPhone is only $300 for when you don't consider the contract involved. This is a verifiable fact.
If you want to cancel your account after the first month the price is about $550, but it's still locked to AT&T. This is a verifiable fact.
The cheapest unlocked iPhone 3G I saw was for $1000 on Engadget but that turns out to be incorrect. If you go to the site the '3G' is replaced by 'Original' in the image, but not in the title. With the links provided, this is a verifiable fact.
I had no need to use the highest price I saw of which was $1400 on eBay because $1000 was high enough and I figure the eBay prices have gone down since I was last monitoring the sales. Your hyperboolic comment about selling your iPhone for $5000 makes no sense as it's about the device can sell for not what you are willing to sell it for. The current eBay listinga have prices that show that around $1000 is probably the going rate for a new, unlocked, 16GB iPhone 3G. With the link provided, you can verify this for yourself.
I think the major point for me is that the iPhone is not meant to take people with high end smart phones already and convert them to the iPhone. It's not meant to take people that have specific apps like Skype and convert them at the expense of Apple's relationship with certain carriers. It's meant to take consumers that have not seen smartphones as being very interesting or easy to use, and move them to purchase.
Now this I can agree with!
PS: You could use Skype on a Jailbroken iPhone prior to the v2.0 update. I'm not sure if they've ported it. If Skype actually creates an app for the iPhone (and I think they will) it will only be allowed to be used over WiFi as one would expect with the carrier relationships with Apple.
Now this I can agree with!
PS: You could use Skype on a Jailbroken iPhone prior to the v2.0 update. I'm not sure if they've ported it. If Skype actually creates an app for the iPhone (and I think they will) it will only be allowed to be used over WiFi as one would expect with the carrier relationships with Apple.
Agreed.
But if people want to "rate" one smartphone against another on the basis of the ability of a developer to build anything they want (a Skype clone) and distribute no matter what onto any carrier using that handset, well those people can just go buy any phone they want and ignore the iPhone. There are not enough of those kind of people to matter at ALL in the sales of iPhones or any other handset for that matter.
There may be all kinds of apps like Skype, that "the community" out there will find a way to get onto an iPhone. Expecting Apple to facilitate or cooperate with those people against the interests of the carriers that Apple works with is silly.
Again, "the people that actually think that" won't make the silliest little dent in Iphone sales.... just buy the Nokia and quiet bitching about it.
There will be a lot of smarter phones out there.
There will be a lot of ways to distinguish one from another.
Saying that the iPhone can't do a lot of specific purpose things that others
can do will be true. (depending on actually picking things that are fact and not making
stuff up!) It will also be true that some phones will be cheaper.
The iPhone is trying to put the best internet screen size, clarity, and browsing actions
into the hands fo non-smartphone users to bring them in and make the tent bigger.
The is one way the iPhone is better than any smartphone bar none.
It will attract more non-smartphone users to the market segment than any other handset.
Advanced Smartphone users need to stop complaining and just deal with it......
I understand.
There will always be people that will value the ability of that Nokia phone to run Skype for you(your example), over a real web browsing experience.
I think the major point for me is that the iPhone is not meant to take people
with high end smart phones already and convert them to the iPhone.
It's not meant to take people that have specific apps like Skype and convert them
at the expense of Apple's relationship with certain carriers.
It's meant to take consumers that have not seen smartphones as being very interesting
or easy to use, and move them to purchase.
Obviously trying to convert current smartphone users to the iPhone would be
going for the minority of phone users and not very smart.
An element that is being left out of this comparison of the iPhone and other platforms. These other mobile platforms are coming to 10 years old. It took years to develop them to the point were they are now.
The iPhone is an entirely new platform that is a year old. Apple is adding to it step by step like everyone else has had to do.
There seems to be some expectation that Apple should be able to launch a new phone that immediately does everything every other phone is capable of doing with no bugs or problems.
This is a feat no one else has been able to perform.
PS: You could use Skype on a Jailbroken iPhone prior to the v2.0 update. I'm not sure if they've ported it. If Skype actually creates an app for the iPhone (and I think they will) it will only be allowed to be used over WiFi as one would expect with the carrier relationships with Apple.
From what I've heard a lot of Apps are waiting for Apple to solidify the API's needed for them to work. Seeing as their are no native VOIP apps, I imagine they are also waiting.
Agreed.
But if people want to "rate" one smartphone against another on the basis of the ability of a developer to build anything they want (a Skype clone) and distribute no matter what onto any carrier using that handset, well those people can just go buy any phone they want and ignore the iPhone. There are not enough of those kind of people to matter at ALL in the sales of iPhones or any other handset for that matter.
There may be all kinds of apps like Skype, that "the community" out there will find a way to get onto an iPhone. Expecting Apple to facilitate or cooperate with those people against the interests of the carriers that Apple works with is silly.
Again, "the people that actually think that" won't make the silliest little dent in Iphone sales.... just buy the Nokia and quiet bitching about it.
There will be a lot of smarter phones out there.
There will be a lot of ways to distinguish one from another.
Saying that the iPhone can't do a lot of specific purpose things that others
can do will be true. (depending on actually picking things that are fact and not making
stuff up!) It will also be true that some phones will be cheaper.
The iPhone is trying to put the best internet screen size, clarity, and browsing actions
into the hands fo non-smartphone users to bring them in and make the tent bigger.
The is one way the iPhone is better than any smartphone bar none.
It will attract more non-smartphone users to the market segment than any other handset.
Advanced Smartphone users need to stop complaining and just deal with it......
Besides attracting previously non-smartphone users to the iPhone the "smartphones are only for geeks or hardcore business users" moniker has been lifted so it's very existence is increasing other smartphone sales.
As for other smartphone users complaining about the iPhone not offering what they need, that is fine as it's not meant to fit everyone's needs. But they aren't looking at the big picture. How the other companies are getting off their asses to create a better product to compete against the iPhone. All smartphone users should be glad that the iPhone has entered the market and set a fire under their favourite smartphone manufacturer.
Nokia has publicly admitted to have a poor user interface and bought a Spanish company earlier this year to assist with this. I think that is what they bought them for. They are also working with Mozilla to provide FF for their handsets. I wish they would go with Webkit since it's a better mobile engine but I understand their desire to set themselves apart from Safari. RiM is coming out with physical keyboard-less phone. Who would have though that would ever happen 2 years ago?
Besides attracting previously non-smartphone users to the iPhone the "smartphones are only for geeks or hardcore business users" moniker has been lifted so it's very existence is increasing other smartphone sales.
As for other smartphone users complaining about the iPhone not offering what they need, that is fine as it's not meant to fit everyone's needs. But they aren't looking at the big picture. How the other companies are getting off their asses to create a better product to compete against the iPhone. All smartphone users should be glad that the iPhone has entered the market and set a fire under their favourite smartphone manufacturer.
Nokia has publicly admitted to have a poor user interface and bought a Spanish company earlier this year to assist with this. I think that is what they bought them for. They are also working with Mozilla to provide FF for their handsets. I wish they would go with Webkit since it's a better mobile engine but I understand their desire to set themselves apart from Safari. RiM is coming out with physical keyboard-less phone. Who would have though that would ever happen 2 years ago?
Agreed.
Two years ago, a LOT OF PEOPLE said Apple had no chance against such a market leader as Motorola!
The iPhone is a game changer, and there is plenty of room for other smart phones.
And as you said, the amount of room that there is, is much larger because the
market was greatly enlarged.