From what I read online, people did try putting over 4GB into a Intel 965 MacBook but only 4GB were used by the system. Everything above 4GB was ignored. There are limitations in other non-chipset hardware areas, as I understand.
This is a Windows limitation. A Mac OS laptop would be able to use the full 8 Gigs.
This is a Windows limitation. A Mac OS laptop would be able to use the full 8 Gigs.
No, it is not a Windows limitation, just a 32-bit limitation. Intel's PM/GM965 nothbridge (which Apple currently uses) is limited to 4GB of RAM (even though it has a 36-bit memory controller). But M965 is two generations old now, and Apple needs to catch up.
Actually, M965 should work with 8GB (the desktop version of the chip does), but I don't think any laptop manufacturers properly supported it in the BIOS (or EFI, in Apple's case).
I guess the point is, an Apple laptop with a modern MCH (be it from Intel or Nvidia) and no EFI limitations will be able to use 8GB of RAM. Maybe even 16GB of RAM.
I've been holding out for an imac refresh, which if the original road map continues to be correct, is due in November. And I really hope that - whatever they do to the form factor (likely not much), that the imac will be at least the equal of the new portables - I'd like an upgraded intel CPU (at least montevina) and if true for the portables, the Nvidia graphics chips capable of handling Crysis etc. So I'll be checking out what does or does not happen Oct 14 with a lot of interest and waiting my turn.
I think the best laptop design they've released was the 12" powerbook.
I agree. If Apple did a similar design in Intel, and with a plastic enclosure to deliver superior WiFi reception & transmission, we would then have the perfect Mac notebook!
i definitely agree with you. I want the more portable computer but i also want professional power.
i dont understand why other people dont get this point
Indeed they are made for the every day consumer, but*, There are professionals such as myself who need a smaller notebook and must be very portable. The power can be put into the macbooks without a doubt. Apple for some reason doesnt want to put another small pro model out.
for the record. I think the best laptop design they've released was the 12" powerbook.
Yes, I know a number of engineers who made the switch because they liked the 12 Powerbook.
But, I would imagine that Apple discontinued it because generally, it wasn't selling well.
Of course, modern Macbooks are much more powerful than the old 12" Powerbooks, so that part isn't a problem. The gpu in the old Powerbook wasn't that hot by todays standards either (and not THAT great by the standards of the day). I'm not even sure if it was any better than the on die graphics of Intel's current chipset.
And really, unless one is doing 3D, it's not all that important.
Yes, I know a number of engineers who made the switch because they liked the 12 Powerbook.
But, I would imagine that Apple discontinued it because generally, it wasn't selling well.
Of course, modern Macbooks are much more powerful than the old 12" Powerbooks, so that part isn't a problem. The gpu in the old Powerbook wasn't that hot by todays standards either (and not THAT great by the standards of the day). I'm not even sure if it was any better than the on die graphics of Intel's current chipset.
And really, unless one is doing 3D, it's not all that important.
I know that everytime I see a 12" PB I wish I had one with Intel guts. In airports, they are not uncommon to see, but most people have Intel machines these days it seems.
Give me a notebook I can put in a jacket pocket and I will buy today. Release a 10" and I will still buy one. A 12" MBP would be killer too. At this point, I just want something smaller than my MB 2.4 GHz.
From what I read online, people did try putting over 4GB into a Intel 965 MacBook but only 4GB were used by the system. Everything above 4GB was ignored. There are limitations in other non-chipset hardware areas, as I understand.
Sometimes the only problem is the pin-out in the memory sockets. Manufacturers don't always use all the pins for the higher order modules for various reasons. Sometimes, in portables, it's because of power consumption. In desktops, it's often because newer higher density chips weren't out at the time the machine came out, or they were much too expensive, and so the manufacturer hadn't been able to test for them.
I know that everytime I see a 12" PB I wish I had one with Intel guts. In airports, they are not uncommon to see, but most people have Intel machines these days it seems.
Give me a notebook I can put in a jacket pocket and I will buy today. Release a 10" and I will still buy one. A 12" MBP would be killer too. At this point, I just want something smaller than my MB 2.4 GHz.
Yeah I like my 12" PB too, it's very convenient. But I would take that thought one step further and ask Mr. Jobs to kindly reintroduce the Duo, it was the best notebook system I've ever used.
Yes, I know a number of engineers who made the switch because they liked the 12 Powerbook.
But, I would imagine that Apple discontinued it because generally, it wasn't selling well.
Of course, modern Macbooks are much more powerful than the old 12" Powerbooks, so that part isn't a problem. The gpu in the old Powerbook wasn't that hot by todays standards either (and not THAT great by the standards of the day). I'm not even sure if it was any better than the on die graphics of Intel's current chipset.
And really, unless one is doing 3D, it's not all that important.
I get what your saying. But my point is that today they have the technology to make a 13" MBP with all the power. I don't want a plastic mb. It doesn't appeal to me. I was considering buying a mb and upgrading to 4gb ram 250gb hard disk 2.4 ghz for $1700. Way cheaper (better?) then base pro, but I'll gladly pay more for for a backlit keyboard, graphics, and clean sleek aluminum.
Quote:
Originally Posted by aplnub
I know that everytime I see a 12" PB I wish I had one with Intel guts. In airports, they are not uncommon to see, but most people have Intel machines these days it seems.
Give me a notebook I can put in a jacket pocket and I will buy today. Release a 10" and I will still buy one. A 12" MBP would be killer too. At this point, I just want something smaller than my MB 2.4 GHz.
I don't know about a MVP that fits an a pocket. 12 13 inches is good for me. I want a descent screen. But I want something smaller than a 15" mbp
I don't think that PA Semi/Apple even has a license to produce chipsets for Intel processors. AFAIK, only NVIDIA and SiS have licenses for producing Intel-based chipsets. And AFAIK, PA Semi has no experience with building a competent, ATI/NVIDIA-class mobile graphics processor.
So your comment has little cred.
Nvidia didn't receive a license to use Nehalem or chipsets from there moving foward because Intel wants access to SLI.
Watch the announcements from Apple and Intel on chipset licensing agreements.
Nvidia didn't receive a license to use Nehalem or chipsets from there moving foward because Intel wants access to SLI.
Watch the announcements from Apple and Intel on chipset licensing agreements.
For what it's worth, Nvidia claims that it does in fact have a QPI license to make Nehalem chipsets, and that it is just skipping the high-end for a generation to focus on mobile and integrated graphics stuff.
(Speculation is that NV just got the license too late to introduce a competitor to X58)
I get what your saying. But my point is that today they have the technology to make a 13" MBP with all the power. I don't want a plastic mb. It doesn't appeal to me. I was considering buying a mb and upgrading to 4gb ram 250gb hard disk 2.4 ghz for $1700. Way cheaper (better?) then base pro, but I'll gladly pay more for for a backlit keyboard, graphics, and clean sleek aluminum.
Of course they do. It isn't a matter of being able to do it. They likely think there isn't a large enough market.
The fact that Apple produced such a machine in the first place shows they were interested in the possibility of that segment of the market.
But, unless they can be convinced that it's viable, they won't do it again.
The Macbook can do everything it has to, and if a smaller machine doesn't come out again, I don't know how to convince Apple to change their minds. Somehow, there have to be enough people telling Apple they want one, for them to bother. People on the forums aren't enough.
I don't understand that. All Apple would have to do is provide the chipset drivers in an updated Boot Camp. Windows does work on non-Intel chipsets.
Quote:
Originally Posted by killamike
so... will that make bootcamp totally useless then? assuming not using intel's chip=no windows installation?
Yeah, Boot Camp just needs to have all those drivers, nVidia chipset, network, RAID, etc. have different drivers for laptop and desktop. In PC land, it's actually quite complicated finding all the right drivers, even for Windows XP.
The good news is that Apple provides you all the Boot Camp drivers. Bad news: hard to use other drivers if you wanted to experiment.
No, it is not a Windows limitation, just a 32-bit limitation. Intel's PM/GM965 nothbridge (which Apple currently uses) is limited to 4GB of RAM (even though it has a 36-bit memory controller). But M965 is two generations old now, and Apple needs to catch up.
Actually, M965 should work with 8GB (the desktop version of the chip does), but I don't think any laptop manufacturers properly supported it in the BIOS (or EFI, in Apple's case).
I guess the point is, an Apple laptop with a modern MCH (be it from Intel or Nvidia) and no EFI limitations will be able to use 8GB of RAM. Maybe even 16GB of RAM.
Interesting points. I wasn't paying too much attention to PC laptops, but a quick look at Dell "gaming laptops" and I can't see any 8GB Vista Ultimate 64-bit options.
As I said previously, a MacBook Pro with 8GB of RAM, and that will go like hotcakes. During economic hardship is when people that really use their laptops can't afford to waste time or lose out on projects because they didn't have a few extra hundred bucks to get a powerhouse mobile platform. Might turn a few people away from getting Mac Pros to just equipping their staff with MacBook Pros with 8GB RAM.
The MacBook Pro heat problem has really improved, for the Penryn models you could run the two internal fans at say 5000 rpm at say 60% CPU load, and at room temperature the keyboard actually feels a little cool to the touch.
It's the MacBook Pro build quality that has been somewhat atrocious, and the aluminium styling, while making it as light as a MacBook, is prone to some painful bumps and dents... (If you had that happen to your MacBook Pro, you know what I'm talking about...)
Comments
so... will that make bootcamp totally useless then? assuming not using intel's chip=no windows installation?
I don't understand that. All Apple would have to do is provide the chipset drivers in an updated Boot Camp. Windows does work on non-Intel chipsets.
From what I read online, people did try putting over 4GB into a Intel 965 MacBook but only 4GB were used by the system. Everything above 4GB was ignored. There are limitations in other non-chipset hardware areas, as I understand.
This is a Windows limitation. A Mac OS laptop would be able to use the full 8 Gigs.
If the world is coming to an end, might as well get a sweet rig while I still can.
If I am the only human with a MacBook post-apocalypse, I will rule the world!
MacBook Pro: Apocalypse Edition
MacBook Pro: Apocalypse Edition
Until the battery ran down and then he would have a canoe anchor and no more power.
This is a Windows limitation. A Mac OS laptop would be able to use the full 8 Gigs.
No, it is not a Windows limitation, just a 32-bit limitation. Intel's PM/GM965 nothbridge (which Apple currently uses) is limited to 4GB of RAM (even though it has a 36-bit memory controller). But M965 is two generations old now, and Apple needs to catch up.
Actually, M965 should work with 8GB (the desktop version of the chip does), but I don't think any laptop manufacturers properly supported it in the BIOS (or EFI, in Apple's case).
I guess the point is, an Apple laptop with a modern MCH (be it from Intel or Nvidia) and no EFI limitations will be able to use 8GB of RAM. Maybe even 16GB of RAM.
This is a Windows limitation. A Mac OS laptop would be able to use the full 8 Gigs.
I think the best laptop design they've released was the 12" powerbook.
I agree. If Apple did a similar design in Intel, and with a plastic enclosure to deliver superior WiFi reception & transmission, we would then have the perfect Mac notebook!
i definitely agree with you. I want the more portable computer but i also want professional power.
i dont understand why other people dont get this point
Indeed they are made for the every day consumer, but*, There are professionals such as myself who need a smaller notebook and must be very portable. The power can be put into the macbooks without a doubt. Apple for some reason doesnt want to put another small pro model out.
for the record. I think the best laptop design they've released was the 12" powerbook.
Yes, I know a number of engineers who made the switch because they liked the 12 Powerbook.
But, I would imagine that Apple discontinued it because generally, it wasn't selling well.
Of course, modern Macbooks are much more powerful than the old 12" Powerbooks, so that part isn't a problem. The gpu in the old Powerbook wasn't that hot by todays standards either (and not THAT great by the standards of the day). I'm not even sure if it was any better than the on die graphics of Intel's current chipset.
And really, unless one is doing 3D, it's not all that important.
Yes, I know a number of engineers who made the switch because they liked the 12 Powerbook.
But, I would imagine that Apple discontinued it because generally, it wasn't selling well.
Of course, modern Macbooks are much more powerful than the old 12" Powerbooks, so that part isn't a problem. The gpu in the old Powerbook wasn't that hot by todays standards either (and not THAT great by the standards of the day). I'm not even sure if it was any better than the on die graphics of Intel's current chipset.
And really, unless one is doing 3D, it's not all that important.
I know that everytime I see a 12" PB I wish I had one with Intel guts.
Give me a notebook I can put in a jacket pocket and I will buy today. Release a 10" and I will still buy one. A 12" MBP would be killer too. At this point, I just want something smaller than my MB 2.4 GHz.
From what I read online, people did try putting over 4GB into a Intel 965 MacBook but only 4GB were used by the system. Everything above 4GB was ignored. There are limitations in other non-chipset hardware areas, as I understand.
Sometimes the only problem is the pin-out in the memory sockets. Manufacturers don't always use all the pins for the higher order modules for various reasons. Sometimes, in portables, it's because of power consumption. In desktops, it's often because newer higher density chips weren't out at the time the machine came out, or they were much too expensive, and so the manufacturer hadn't been able to test for them.
If you were the last person on the planet, you could scavenge batteries from all the other MacBooks in the world.
Or you could get a generator and run it off of all the fuel sitting in the tanks at the gas stations around the world.
Or you could set up a solar system to charge your batteries.
Or you could set up a wind turbine, or a water turbine…
Or, or, or…
I am sure if you were the last person on the planet, you could find a way to provide power for your electronics for the rest of your (lonely) life…
And if you could, what would you use it for, games, to while away the years in between trying to find food?
I know that everytime I see a 12" PB I wish I had one with Intel guts.
Give me a notebook I can put in a jacket pocket and I will buy today. Release a 10" and I will still buy one. A 12" MBP would be killer too. At this point, I just want something smaller than my MB 2.4 GHz.
Yeah I like my 12" PB too, it's very convenient. But I would take that thought one step further and ask Mr. Jobs to kindly reintroduce the Duo, it was the best notebook system I've ever used.
Yes, I know a number of engineers who made the switch because they liked the 12 Powerbook.
But, I would imagine that Apple discontinued it because generally, it wasn't selling well.
Of course, modern Macbooks are much more powerful than the old 12" Powerbooks, so that part isn't a problem. The gpu in the old Powerbook wasn't that hot by todays standards either (and not THAT great by the standards of the day). I'm not even sure if it was any better than the on die graphics of Intel's current chipset.
And really, unless one is doing 3D, it's not all that important.
I get what your saying. But my point is that today they have the technology to make a 13" MBP with all the power. I don't want a plastic mb. It doesn't appeal to me. I was considering buying a mb and upgrading to 4gb ram 250gb hard disk 2.4 ghz for $1700. Way cheaper (better?) then base pro, but I'll gladly pay more for for a backlit keyboard, graphics, and clean sleek aluminum.
I know that everytime I see a 12" PB I wish I had one with Intel guts.
Give me a notebook I can put in a jacket pocket and I will buy today. Release a 10" and I will still buy one. A 12" MBP would be killer too. At this point, I just want something smaller than my MB 2.4 GHz.
I don't know about a MVP that fits an a pocket. 12 13 inches is good for me. I want a descent screen. But I want something smaller than a 15" mbp
I don't think that PA Semi/Apple even has a license to produce chipsets for Intel processors. AFAIK, only NVIDIA and SiS have licenses for producing Intel-based chipsets. And AFAIK, PA Semi has no experience with building a competent, ATI/NVIDIA-class mobile graphics processor.
So your comment has little cred.
Nvidia didn't receive a license to use Nehalem or chipsets from there moving foward because Intel wants access to SLI.
Watch the announcements from Apple and Intel on chipset licensing agreements.
Nvidia didn't receive a license to use Nehalem or chipsets from there moving foward because Intel wants access to SLI.
Watch the announcements from Apple and Intel on chipset licensing agreements.
For what it's worth, Nvidia claims that it does in fact have a QPI license to make Nehalem chipsets, and that it is just skipping the high-end for a generation to focus on mobile and integrated graphics stuff.
(Speculation is that NV just got the license too late to introduce a competitor to X58)
I get what your saying. But my point is that today they have the technology to make a 13" MBP with all the power. I don't want a plastic mb. It doesn't appeal to me. I was considering buying a mb and upgrading to 4gb ram 250gb hard disk 2.4 ghz for $1700. Way cheaper (better?) then base pro, but I'll gladly pay more for for a backlit keyboard, graphics, and clean sleek aluminum.
Of course they do. It isn't a matter of being able to do it. They likely think there isn't a large enough market.
The fact that Apple produced such a machine in the first place shows they were interested in the possibility of that segment of the market.
But, unless they can be convinced that it's viable, they won't do it again.
The Macbook can do everything it has to, and if a smaller machine doesn't come out again, I don't know how to convince Apple to change their minds. Somehow, there have to be enough people telling Apple they want one, for them to bother. People on the forums aren't enough.
[/QUOTE]
I don't understand that. All Apple would have to do is provide the chipset drivers in an updated Boot Camp. Windows does work on non-Intel chipsets.
so... will that make bootcamp totally useless then? assuming not using intel's chip=no windows installation?
Yeah, Boot Camp just needs to have all those drivers, nVidia chipset, network, RAID, etc. have different drivers for laptop and desktop. In PC land, it's actually quite complicated finding all the right drivers, even for Windows XP.
The good news is that Apple provides you all the Boot Camp drivers. Bad news: hard to use other drivers if you wanted to experiment.
No, it is not a Windows limitation, just a 32-bit limitation. Intel's PM/GM965 nothbridge (which Apple currently uses) is limited to 4GB of RAM (even though it has a 36-bit memory controller). But M965 is two generations old now, and Apple needs to catch up.
Actually, M965 should work with 8GB (the desktop version of the chip does), but I don't think any laptop manufacturers properly supported it in the BIOS (or EFI, in Apple's case).
I guess the point is, an Apple laptop with a modern MCH (be it from Intel or Nvidia) and no EFI limitations will be able to use 8GB of RAM. Maybe even 16GB of RAM.
Interesting points. I wasn't paying too much attention to PC laptops, but a quick look at Dell "gaming laptops" and I can't see any 8GB Vista Ultimate 64-bit options.
As I said previously, a MacBook Pro with 8GB of RAM, and that will go like hotcakes. During economic hardship is when people that really use their laptops can't afford to waste time or lose out on projects because they didn't have a few extra hundred bucks to get a powerhouse mobile platform. Might turn a few people away from getting Mac Pros to just equipping their staff with MacBook Pros with 8GB RAM.
The MacBook Pro heat problem has really improved, for the Penryn models you could run the two internal fans at say 5000 rpm at say 60% CPU load, and at room temperature the keyboard actually feels a little cool to the touch.
It's the MacBook Pro build quality that has been somewhat atrocious, and the aluminium styling, while making it as light as a MacBook, is prone to some painful bumps and dents... (If you had that happen to your MacBook Pro, you know what I'm talking about...)
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