I believe that yes, the extra 3mm would detract from the form factor. I daresay that a 3mm increase in the dimensions of an internal component would increase the thickness of the case by more than 3mm, and not just due to the size of the one component but to the change in arrangement of other components around it.
I agree with the solipsism that "pro's" truly needing BR burning in an mpb are such a small segment of the market that it wouldn't be worth compromising the form factor of the mbp to please. I would be happy to use an external B-R burner and keep the aesthetics of the mbp design intact, as long as apple had some bloody software support for it in DVDSP.
A 3mm thickness increase would not be good for Apple, but in backtomac's defense, the thickness wouldn't have to be a full 3mm since the 17" MBP is also 1" thick and uses the 12.7mm optical drive. Apple would have to rearrange their entire internal setup to accommodate for a thicker drive and have had 3 years to figure out a way to make this happen, but I still have major reservations that they would go to all that trouble just for an overly expensive, BRD optical option that doesn't even seem to be popular as a CD/DVD option.
Here are pics and specs of the 15" and 17" optical drives, respectively, in the current MBPs... (Red shows where the 9.5mm is lacking is performance over the slightly larger 12.7mm drives in green)
— 24x CD-R
— 10x CD-RW
— 8x DVD-R
— DVD+R
— DVD+RW
— DVD-RW
— 4x DVD-R DL (double layer)
— DVD+R DL (double layer)
— 24x CD-R
— 16x CD-RW
— 8x DVD-R
— DVD+R
— DVD+RW
— 6x DVD-RW
— 4x DVD-R DL (double layer)
— DVD+R DL (double layer
PS: I appreciate the agreement, Sennen, I'm finding myself on the extreme minority of this argument despite months of showing that slim, slot-loading BRD just aren't feasible at this time.
Working for a company that authors dvds - SD and BR - I don't see the point of apple including a BR burner if they are not going to support it in pro-Apps.
Currently, the "pro's can use an external BR burner" argument doesn't work because there is no way to author professionally and to BD spec in OSX. We already have had to turn to windows/PC-based solutions for authoring BR as Bootcamp has been problematic as well.
Part of the argument is about using BD as a storage medium for any data. Which can be done on OS X with Toast Titanium. I'm not entirely sure how well its ability to author BD movies. OS X doesn't support BD DRM in any way. Authoring with AACS is out of the question.
The professional DVD authoring shops I've seen are generally Windows based. And they are also generally using proprietary authoring tools. Is that your set up?
OS X doesn't support BD DRM in any way. Authoring with AACS is out of the question.
I am under the impression that Montevina will be offering HDCP built right into the chipset which would make Apple introducing new Blu-ray capable Pro Apps and iLife a much more likely solution. But if they go with NVIDIA will that option still be available?
PS: I appreciate the agreement, Sennen, I'm finding myself on the extreme minority of this argument despite months of showing that slim, slot-loading BRD just aren't feasible at this time.
Whilst it would be ideal to have an all-in-one solution, which is what I might still prefer, one has to look at the reality of the situation. ie aesthetics and cost don't allow for a slot-loading blu ray drive at this point in time.
Even as a "pro" user I would be a small segment of the market these days, and I wouldn't mind carrying an external blu-ray burner around to be honest. I think if apple at least had authoring support for BD, then most "pro's" would be happy that they could go from camera to final product with FCS on a mac - and those doing so on an mbp still have the external option in order to output to disc.
Part of the argument is about using BD as a storage medium for any data. Which can be done on OS X with Toast Titanium. I'm not entirely sure how well its ability to author BD movies. OS X doesn't support BD DRM in any way. Authoring with AACS is out of the question.
For data storage and even burning BD images as test discs, Toast is fine. As an authoring tool, it is nowhere near up to spec, for SD let alone BD. No company would use it to send a product out for replication, you are just asking for trouble.
Quote:
The professional DVD authoring shops I've seen are generally Windows based. And they are also generally using proprietary authoring tools. Is that your set up?
We have an office with 12 macs and 3 pc's, and still do SD authoring in DVDSP. re: the windows-based proprietary tools, it seems like the old avid/FCP argument to me. For a small business (albeit with a large volume of titles), I don't see that the incredible expense of something like sonic can be justified.
We wanted to stay with apple for blu-ray and as a beta-tester in the past have pushed them for 2 years or more for BD support in DVDSP... It's a massive undertaking, assuredly, but disappointing that they don't seem interested even in getting a non-BD-J version out.
Whilst it would be ideal to have an all-in-one solution, which is what I might still prefer, one has to look at the reality of the situation. ie aesthetics and cost don't allow for a slot-loading blu ray drive at this point in time.
Even as a "pro" user I would be a small segment of the market these days, and I wouldn't mind carrying an external blu-ray burner around to be honest. I think if apple at least had authoring support for BD, then most "pro's" would be happy that they could go from camera to final product with FCS on a mac - and those doing so on an mbp still have the external option in order to output to disc.
Researching Newegg, The best I was able to find is a full size Blu-ray burner for about $250. These are DR-R writable drives, which would probably be 6x the speed of an 9.5mm slot-loading BRD drive that a MBP would offer. That price, expect for the that $370 model, doesn't include an external case to hold the internal drive. It also doesn't offer any Mac OS X software, which I assume is one reason why the $999 12.7mm "FastMac" option cost more than the cheaper "Windows" options that are available on Google Shopping for at a lower pricepoint.
PS: I still can't help but wonder why Apple has released BR capable Pro apps and and at least official support (at least by 3rd-parties) for the Mac Pro and external drive options for their Pro notebooks if it was serious about supporting Blu-ray. It makes no business absolutely no business sense to thicken the size and wright of their notebooks, add a nearly a a grand to their notebook cost, and add untested SW at a point that benefits so few customers, and turns off the great majority of them.
Comments
I believe that yes, the extra 3mm would detract from the form factor. I daresay that a 3mm increase in the dimensions of an internal component would increase the thickness of the case by more than 3mm, and not just due to the size of the one component but to the change in arrangement of other components around it.
I agree with the solipsism that "pro's" truly needing BR burning in an mpb are such a small segment of the market that it wouldn't be worth compromising the form factor of the mbp to please. I would be happy to use an external B-R burner and keep the aesthetics of the mbp design intact, as long as apple had some bloody software support for it in DVDSP.
A 3mm thickness increase would not be good for Apple, but in backtomac's defense, the thickness wouldn't have to be a full 3mm since the 17" MBP is also 1" thick and uses the 12.7mm optical drive. Apple would have to rearrange their entire internal setup to accommodate for a thicker drive and have had 3 years to figure out a way to make this happen, but I still have major reservations that they would go to all that trouble just for an overly expensive, BRD optical option that doesn't even seem to be popular as a CD/DVD option.
Here are pics and specs of the 15" and 17" optical drives, respectively, in the current MBPs... (Red shows where the 9.5mm is lacking is performance over the slightly larger 12.7mm drives in green)
PS: I appreciate the agreement, Sennen, I'm finding myself on the extreme minority of this argument despite months of showing that slim, slot-loading BRD just aren't feasible at this time.
Working for a company that authors dvds - SD and BR - I don't see the point of apple including a BR burner if they are not going to support it in pro-Apps.
Currently, the "pro's can use an external BR burner" argument doesn't work because there is no way to author professionally and to BD spec in OSX. We already have had to turn to windows/PC-based solutions for authoring BR as Bootcamp has been problematic as well.
Part of the argument is about using BD as a storage medium for any data. Which can be done on OS X with Toast Titanium. I'm not entirely sure how well its ability to author BD movies. OS X doesn't support BD DRM in any way. Authoring with AACS is out of the question.
The professional DVD authoring shops I've seen are generally Windows based. And they are also generally using proprietary authoring tools. Is that your set up?
OS X doesn't support BD DRM in any way. Authoring with AACS is out of the question.
I am under the impression that Montevina will be offering HDCP built right into the chipset which would make Apple introducing new Blu-ray capable Pro Apps and iLife a much more likely solution. But if they go with NVIDIA will that option still be available?
PS: I appreciate the agreement, Sennen, I'm finding myself on the extreme minority of this argument despite months of showing that slim, slot-loading BRD just aren't feasible at this time.
Whilst it would be ideal to have an all-in-one solution, which is what I might still prefer, one has to look at the reality of the situation. ie aesthetics and cost don't allow for a slot-loading blu ray drive at this point in time.
Even as a "pro" user I would be a small segment of the market these days, and I wouldn't mind carrying an external blu-ray burner around to be honest. I think if apple at least had authoring support for BD, then most "pro's" would be happy that they could go from camera to final product with FCS on a mac - and those doing so on an mbp still have the external option in order to output to disc.
Part of the argument is about using BD as a storage medium for any data. Which can be done on OS X with Toast Titanium. I'm not entirely sure how well its ability to author BD movies. OS X doesn't support BD DRM in any way. Authoring with AACS is out of the question.
For data storage and even burning BD images as test discs, Toast is fine. As an authoring tool, it is nowhere near up to spec, for SD let alone BD. No company would use it to send a product out for replication, you are just asking for trouble.
The professional DVD authoring shops I've seen are generally Windows based. And they are also generally using proprietary authoring tools. Is that your set up?
We have an office with 12 macs and 3 pc's, and still do SD authoring in DVDSP. re: the windows-based proprietary tools, it seems like the old avid/FCP argument to me. For a small business (albeit with a large volume of titles), I don't see that the incredible expense of something like sonic can be justified.
We wanted to stay with apple for blu-ray and as a beta-tester in the past have pushed them for 2 years or more for BD support in DVDSP... It's a massive undertaking, assuredly, but disappointing that they don't seem interested even in getting a non-BD-J version out.
Whilst it would be ideal to have an all-in-one solution, which is what I might still prefer, one has to look at the reality of the situation. ie aesthetics and cost don't allow for a slot-loading blu ray drive at this point in time.
Even as a "pro" user I would be a small segment of the market these days, and I wouldn't mind carrying an external blu-ray burner around to be honest. I think if apple at least had authoring support for BD, then most "pro's" would be happy that they could go from camera to final product with FCS on a mac - and those doing so on an mbp still have the external option in order to output to disc.
Researching Newegg, The best I was able to find is a full size Blu-ray burner for about $250. These are DR-R writable drives, which would probably be 6x the speed of an 9.5mm slot-loading BRD drive that a MBP would offer. That price, expect for the that $370 model, doesn't include an external case to hold the internal drive. It also doesn't offer any Mac OS X software, which I assume is one reason why the $999 12.7mm "FastMac" option cost more than the cheaper "Windows" options that are available on Google Shopping for at a lower pricepoint.
PS: I still can't help but wonder why Apple has released BR capable Pro apps and and at least official support (at least by 3rd-parties) for the Mac Pro and external drive options for their Pro notebooks if it was serious about supporting Blu-ray. It makes no business absolutely no business sense to thicken the size and wright of their notebooks, add a nearly a a grand to their notebook cost, and add untested SW at a point that benefits so few customers, and turns off the great majority of them.