I think we can safely state now that that's not a mini-DVI or a micro-DVI port. Comparing them to USB, it is obvious that their shape and size do not match this new hole.
Since the icon next the cut-out clearly signals a display connector, we can assume that Apple is introducing a completely new type of port.
If Apple still sticks to some flavor of DVI, then they need to support dual-link considering how many people use 30" cinema display with MBP. Shrinking a dual-link DVI port to this tiny size seems to be a challenge.
Rather than using DVI, I would guess Apple is leaving DVI behind and switches to a more modern standard, like HDMI or Display-Port. If that's the case, they will need to provide converter dongles for legacy hardware supporting only DVI/VGA.
Moreover, since the size of these new connectors do not look like either HDMI or Display-Port, I guess they just made up their own miniaturized version of one of them.
I thought Macs were about elegance and simplicity!
They are, so if you think ahead, rather than trying to apply what's current with the future, you'll see these changes make sense. You also need to consider mainstream consumer use, which is Apple's primary focus.
Quote:
Originally Posted by stonefree
In two years, owning a Mac laptop will require the following accessories for many users-
MiniDV adapter
powered USB hub
Firewire 400/800 adapter
External optical drive
Ethernet/USB adapter
MiniDV adapter - How often does the average computer user actually connect their laptop to an external display? I'll tell you: hardly ever, if ever. To most, it'd be an illogical thing considering they bought the laptop to un-tether from the desk.
powered USB hub - It's funny, most people never plug in more than one USB device at a time into their laptop, even when they have them to spare. Bluetooth eliminates wireless mouse/keyboard USB dongles, so generally people plug in their camera, transfer their pictures, disconnect it, plug in their iPod, sync it, disconnect it.
Firewire 400/800 adapter - How many average computer users have Firewire camcorders and/or cameras? Of those, how many actually use that functionality? Many of these devices come with USB and most people are more familiar with USB.
External optical drive - Why force people to carry around an internal disc drive when they rarely use it for anything but stationary CD importing/burning? Makes far more sense to make it an external option for laptop users so the laptop is as thin and light as possible, while allowing the user to connect an external SuperDrive for occasional CD importing/burning and disconnect when out and about. Discs ain't the future.
Ethernet/USB adapter - Relates to the one above. WiFi is the future. In fact, most laptop users today use WiFi exclusively with their laptop, rarely ever using a wired ethernet connection.
Firewire 400/800 adapter - How many average computer users have Firewire camcorders and/or cameras? Of those, how many actually use that functionality? Many of these devices come with USB and most people are more familiar with USB.
No FW or other high-speed interface in the new MBs is just wrong. If you have used them you should know.
I've been following several discussions about the FW missing port in the macbooks, and even the macbooks pro's...
I remember the phasing out of the SCSI protocol mainly for external hard drive, back in the 90's, I had the last mac laptop to have it, the G3 wallstreet (only 10 years ago), it didn't had usb or even firewire... despite the big brother deskstop's had them... That was a time when mac stuff was really expensive, but they were workhorses, they could stand almost anything, hours and hours... Nowadays their hardware is so-so, very prone to failure, sometimes big failaure, just like the generic PC world.
Firewire is common language in the mac world, it serves for almost anything that deals with connectivity, for connecting computers in target mode, for external hard drives, WERE THE DATA SPEED IS ESSENTIAL, BE IT VIDEO, AUDIO or even DATA... , for VIDEO CAPTURE, or AUDIO, because of the nature of the protocol, peer-to-peer, not crappy and bad written protocols for consumer market like the USB, were speed usually is secondary, better for connecting mouses and printers, the initially aim of the protocol...
I'm in the market for a new laptop, my PBG4/867 is dying, after 6 years of very good work,
I was looking to the macbook because it's cheaper and has everything I need, and the firewire is a main reason for me, I'm work in music and sound, so my HD's are FW as my Audio interface, USB doesn't cut here, to slow for multi-tracking, or any thing decent... It doesn't work for Video either, at least for capture, since this new HD cameras are bullshit, so many codec formats that they are useless (you have to convert from multiple formats for a working one to just start cutting video) only week-end parents use them...
If this is true next 14 October, I'll be buying a white Macbook (current generation) or even a macbook pro (if the price is right) or go linux in the generic PC world, and that hurts after all this years...
Mac's became fashion consumer products and not tools for creative work,
No FW or other high-speed interface in the new MBs is just wrong. If you have used them you should know.
You're ignoring my point. Most people don't know FW 400 has an advantage over USB 2.0. Many probably wouldn't notice a difference if they actually tried out the FW 400 cable on their camera, rather than USB. FW 800 is a different story, but MacBooks have never featured FW 800 because they're built with the average computer user in mind, not the pros. Of course, Apple could always implement FW 800 in future MacBooks, just as they dropped FW 800 in the original MacBook Pros and then brought it back in the next revision.
Is apple really not going to include HDMI / Displaylink in favor of micro-DVI?? Am I taking crazy-pills or am I the only person that is sick and tired of Apple isolating themselves by implementing proprietary bullsh*t into all of their products.. Seriously though, they should have learned their lesson after the "Apple Display Connector." Moreover, when they create all this crap they don't even license it to third parties (i.e. the Magsafe connector--great idea and incredibly useful but no one else aside from Apple can create accessories for it).
Moreover, the choice to include a Firewire 800 port--especially over Firewire 400--is mindboggling. Firewire 800 is a failed standard that has not been adopted by anyone whereas eSata has a nearly entirely uncrippled throughput (if crippled at all?) and is 100X better than Firewire 800 in every sense (the port is even thinner making it more aesthetically economical.) Mind you this is coming from someone who owns an external Firewire 800 hard drive. When will Apple learn?
You may just ignore this post, since according a number of people here I don't exist anyway. This post is merely a figment of your imagination.
I edit video and animation professionally for a national cable network using a MacBook and a Firewire-only HDV camera. I run Final Cut Studio on it and I also connect to an external monitor when I'm in the office. I have Firewire external drives.
Was the MacBook "designed" to do any of this? It CAN, so it doesn't matter. Apple's entry-level notebook has always been generally up-to-par as far as capability (with sacrifices for speed, granted). But the fact is, while current sales may favor the (garbage) MPEG-2 video camera, millions more have Firewire-only DV cameras that will be SOL.
Consider the Prosumer market, that is a perfect target audience for the MacBook. If a prosumer needs Firewire but can't afford a full-blown MBP, what are they to do? Historically a MacBook would be up to the task, but not anymore. So our prosumer will probably either check eBay for older MacBooks or will have to get a PC notebook. I don't understand why Apple would do this, when they've always sort of reached out to that prosumer market, and tried to give consumers the opportunity to become prosumers on the existing hardware. I think Apple is being too narrow with its target audience.
The fact is, whether you choose to see it this way or not, Apple is crippling its entry-level notebook line. Despite the efforts of the Thurston Howells on this forum, the iBook/MacBook has always been capable at doing these things, and Apple arbitrarily removing Firewire, while maybe forward-thinking in the longest terms, is seriously short-sighted.
This is especially true with the economy like it is, people are not going to buy a new MPEG-2 camcorder to fit with their new MacBook. To make people jump through hoops (or just buy new ones) to just be able to use their stuff seems very Microsoft-like. What got me to Switch™ was Apple's philosophy of making the computer "just work".
But now Firewire is virtually Abandonware, and it seems Apple is perhaps too far ahead of the curve for its own good.
wobegon, if the thing I listed are so unneccessary, why are there so many people lamenting their exclusion from new models? Maybe you don't but plenty of other people do, and for many different reasons.
For example, everyone mentions camcorders and hard drives in the Firewire discussion, but what about Pro Audio interfaces? Almost all use Firewire, few use USB. And musicians are a significant part of Apple's base. Unless the price gap is signifcantly narrowed between the MB and MBP, this could be a big issue.
I know a lot of people who use laptops with an external display. It's not about being freed from the desktop. 22" looks much better than 13" doesn't it?
Optical disks aren't going to disappear. I don't doubt their importance will diminish, but definitely not disappear. DVDs are still a great way to exchange large amounts of data. Movies will primarily be played on disks for at least a few more years, if not more. Lots of data is backed up on disks. Etc...
As for USB, I find it a lot easier to just leave stuff plugged in rather than playing musical chairs with your ports, so I say the more the better! I'm sure I'm not alone.
I've been following several discussions about the FW missing port in the macbooks, and even the macbooks pro's...
I remember the phasing out of the SCSI protocol mainly for external hard drive, back in the 90's, I had the last mac laptop to have it, the G3 wallstreet (only 10 years ago), it didn't had usb or even firewire... despite the big brother deskstop's had them... That was a time when mac stuff was really expensive, but they were workhorses, they could stand almost anything, hours and hours... Nowadays their hardware is so-so, very prone to failure, sometimes big failaure, just like the generic PC world.
Firewire is common language in the mac world, it serves for almost anything that deals with connectivity, for connecting computers in target mode, for external hard drives, WERE THE DATA SPEED IS ESSENTIAL, BE IT VIDEO, AUDIO or even DATA... , for VIDEO CAPTURE, or AUDIO, because of the nature of the protocol, peer-to-peer, not crappy and bad written protocols for consumer market like the USB, were speed usually is secondary, better for connecting mouses and printers, the initially aim of the protocol...
I'm in the market for a new laptop, my PBG4/867 is dying, after 6 years of very good work,
I was looking to the macbook because it's cheaper and has everything I need, and the firewire is a main reason for me, I'm work in music and sound, so my HD's are FW as my Audio interface, USB doesn't cut here, to slow for multi-tracking, or any thing decent... It doesn't work for Video either, at least for capture, since this new HD cameras are bullshit, so many codec formats that they are useless (you have to convert from multiple formats for a working one to just start cutting video) only week-end parents use them...
If this is true next 14 October, I'll be buying a white Macbook (current generation) or even a macbook pro (if the price is right) or go linux in the generic PC world, and that hurts after all this years...
Mac's became fashion consumer products and not tools for creative work,
CS
I agree. For example, I bought a MBP because the MB had a few glaring issues - glossy display, no ExpressCard, integrated graphics. I realize now that I don't need all of the features of this $2000 laptop, but the problem is that, since I need a few of the things offered by the MBP, I am stuck. I too am considering a generic PC with linux for my next computer.
Apple is going after the larger consumer market, but is neglecting the powerusers that are the dedicated Apple buyers. This strategy may turn out well, but it will definitely leave a bad taste in many people's mouths...
fft, don't forget about Apple Refurbished - great deals on MBPs.
Dropping Firewire means no target disk. This was useful since the hard drive can't be removed easily...
Two USB 2.0 ports: Unacceptably anemic. Doubly so without Firewire.
They went with MiniDVI instead of HDMI? HDMI is thin and carries the same DVI signal over it so you can still use a monitor with a dongle.
Thoughts on the mystery port get their own list:
Not HDMI, or Apple would have nixed the redundant miniDVI port
Too thick for a SIM card: Apple would probably hide that behind the battery
Possibly too thin for eSATA/USB combo, but wide enough for eSATA only.
I wouldn't bet on eSATA target disk: you'd need a custom ASIC to swap the internal connection between the chipset and the hard drive. Or a totally custom chipset.
I think we can safely state now that that's not a mini-DVI or a micro-DVI port. Comparing them to USB, it is obvious that their shape and size do not match this new hole.
Many people here have stated this notion and I simply don't buy it. I believe it's mini-DVI and here's why.
Looking at the pictures, everyone in agreement with you, I think, is misinterpreting what they're seeing. The cutouts we're looking at are going to fit into an enclosure, just like the MacBook Air. The mini-DVI port only appears smaller than normal because the housing around it isn't in the pictures.
Why would Apple introduce an entirely new video out port that looks so similar to the current mini-DVI port, but is just that much smaller to require everyone to buy new adapters? When they released the Air, they introduced a new micro-DVI port that looks markedly different from the mini-DVI and dual link DVI ports of the MacBook and MacBook Pro, respectively.
So, while the article asserts the "phase out" of Firewire, that's obviously not the case, otherwise Apple would have likely killed off Firewire on all their laptops.
Well, phasing out means killing off, just more slowly. They tried it before, when they removed the FW800 port in the original MBP. There was a large outcry, so now they're trying to do it from the other direction.
Quote:
I think we'll see Firewire return to MacBooks in future revisions, but in FW 800 form instead. That really depends on what Apple plans on doing with Firewire from here on out. If they release iPods and iPhones with FW 800 cables, they'd have even faster syncing with those devices. Maybe future iterations of the Air will gain FW 800, or even replace USB2 with it. Who knows?
I think you're really clinging to FW... I love FW as much as the next guy, but it should be clear that it's lost the war against USB. Even Apple knows it, and I think it's pretty clear what their future intentions for Firewire are. The new MBP will be the only Firewire laptop Apple has left, after all. There's no indication or reason that they should turn 180° on this. It's time to move on.
By the way, the only reason USB 2.0 has won is that the damn ports are compatible. Computer manufacturers are much more eagier to upgrade than to add. Space is precious, especially on notebooks. And with everything they add, people start expecting some continuity. (see Firewire on Apple). USB 2 required little commitment.
Like the difference between a landline and a cellphone, so is the signal quality by Ethernet superior to Wi-Fi. If Apple leaves Ethernet, I think I might have to leave Apple, which is one of the worst things imaginable.
I for one am worried about being unable to use the computers in target disk mode, it's so insanely useful it's not even funny. Unless Apple provides similar functionality via USB it's one thing I'm going to miss greatly.
You won't miss it if you don't buy a new computer.
Like the difference between a landline and a cellphone, so is the signal quality by Ethernet superior to Wi-Fi. If Apple leaves Ethernet, I think I might have to leave Apple, which is one of the worst things imaginable.
You won't miss it if you don't buy a new computer.
Which is what I will do. I was ready to buy a new Macbook mostly for the metal construction and the new graphics, but if Apple indeed drops FW, then I will hold off. In fact I may never again buy an Apple portable at the MB price range if it has not something more than just two USB ports for high-speed data transfer.
wobegon, if the thing I listed are so unneccessary, why are there so many people lamenting their exclusion from new models? Maybe you don't but plenty of other people do, and for many different reasons.
Because people posting here do not represent the mainstream computer user majority. Joe Sixpack doesn't get on forums and discuss this stuff. We represent the minority of those "in the know."
Quote:
Originally Posted by stonefree
For example, everyone mentions camcorders and hard drives in the Firewire discussion, but what about Pro Audio interfaces? Almost all use Firewire, few use USB. And musicians are a significant part of Apple's base. Unless the price gap is signifcantly narrowed between the MB and MBP, this could be a big issue.
Pro Audio? For the average computer user?
Quote:
Originally Posted by stonefree
I know a lot of people who use laptops with an external display. It's not about being freed from the desktop. 22" looks much better than 13" doesn't it?
Ok...and the new MacBook still retains its mini-DVI port. What's your point?
Quote:
Originally Posted by stonefree
Optical disks aren't going to disappear. I don't doubt their importance will diminish, but definitely not disappear. DVDs are still a great way to exchange large amounts of data. Movies will primarily be played on disks for at least a few more years, if not more. Lots of data is backed up on disks. Etc...
Sorry, but discs will disappear and already are when it comes to storing and transferring data between computers. Of course...the new MacBooks (and MacBook Pros) still have their internal SuperDrives, so I don't get what you're complaining about. Most people don't watch DVDs on tiny 13" (or even 15"-17") laptop screens, they have TVs for that.
Quote:
Originally Posted by stonefree
As for USB, I find it a lot easier to just leave stuff plugged in rather than playing musical chairs with your ports, so I say the more the better! I'm sure I'm not alone.
I'm sure you're not, but you're ignoring the perspective of the casual computer user, who often only plugs one thing in at a time and then unplugs it to make way for something else. I consider myself a pretty proficient computer user and I find myself doing the same thing sometimes on my three year old 15" PowerBook G4. Also, many people with laptops don't leave them on the desk with an iPod dock, digital camera, printer, and wired mouse connected to them. They take them from the bedroom, to the living room, to the patio, to the coffee shop, to a friend's house, you get the picture.
But again...the MacBook (and MacBook Pro) appears to retain the two USB 2.0 ports it's always had.
Your imagined Doomsday is just that and you also are completely leaving out the possibility for Apple to reinstate FW 800 (which the MacBook has never had) in future revisions of the MacBook, just as Apple reinstated FW 800 after initially removing it when they introduced the first 15" MacBook Pro. Exhale!
In fact I may never again buy an Apple portable at the MB price range if it has not something more than just two USB ports for high-speed data transfer.
I said the same thing about glossy screens. So now I pay twice as much for a MBP. Somehow I feel that this isn't the best way to punish their choices.
Comments
What do they mean by "redesigned speaker grilles"?
Current
vs.
New
The new speaker grilles bordering the keyboard are more finely perforated.
Since the icon next the cut-out clearly signals a display connector, we can assume that Apple is introducing a completely new type of port.
If Apple still sticks to some flavor of DVI, then they need to support dual-link considering how many people use 30" cinema display with MBP. Shrinking a dual-link DVI port to this tiny size seems to be a challenge.
Rather than using DVI, I would guess Apple is leaving DVI behind and switches to a more modern standard, like HDMI or Display-Port. If that's the case, they will need to provide converter dongles for legacy hardware supporting only DVI/VGA.
Moreover, since the size of these new connectors do not look like either HDMI or Display-Port, I guess they just made up their own miniaturized version of one of them.
I thought Macs were about elegance and simplicity!
They are, so if you think ahead, rather than trying to apply what's current with the future, you'll see these changes make sense. You also need to consider mainstream consumer use, which is Apple's primary focus.
In two years, owning a Mac laptop will require the following accessories for many users-
MiniDV adapter
powered USB hub
Firewire 400/800 adapter
External optical drive
Ethernet/USB adapter
MiniDV adapter - How often does the average computer user actually connect their laptop to an external display? I'll tell you: hardly ever, if ever. To most, it'd be an illogical thing considering they bought the laptop to un-tether from the desk.
powered USB hub - It's funny, most people never plug in more than one USB device at a time into their laptop, even when they have them to spare. Bluetooth eliminates wireless mouse/keyboard USB dongles, so generally people plug in their camera, transfer their pictures, disconnect it, plug in their iPod, sync it, disconnect it.
Firewire 400/800 adapter - How many average computer users have Firewire camcorders and/or cameras? Of those, how many actually use that functionality? Many of these devices come with USB and most people are more familiar with USB.
External optical drive - Why force people to carry around an internal disc drive when they rarely use it for anything but stationary CD importing/burning? Makes far more sense to make it an external option for laptop users so the laptop is as thin and light as possible, while allowing the user to connect an external SuperDrive for occasional CD importing/burning and disconnect when out and about. Discs ain't the future.
Ethernet/USB adapter - Relates to the one above. WiFi is the future. In fact, most laptop users today use WiFi exclusively with their laptop, rarely ever using a wired ethernet connection.
What makes this even more frustrating is that the Macbook will finally have dedicated graphics
Don't count on it. I think the consensus is that it'll still have integrated graphics, but they'll be nVidia integrated graphics rather than Intel.
If Apple forums were so rabid and rampant when the iMac was introduced, we would have been arguing the same points.
What? Why in the world would they not let me use my existing peripherals? I'm not buying that if it doesn't have serial ports.
That's really not equivalent. The iMac replaced ADB and serial ports with USB. USB is much, much better than either of those.
With the MacBook, it looks like apple is going to remove FireWire 400 and replace it with … nothing.
Firewire 400/800 adapter - How many average computer users have Firewire camcorders and/or cameras? Of those, how many actually use that functionality? Many of these devices come with USB and most people are more familiar with USB.
No FW or other high-speed interface in the new MBs is just wrong. If you have used them you should know.
I remember the phasing out of the SCSI protocol mainly for external hard drive, back in the 90's, I had the last mac laptop to have it, the G3 wallstreet (only 10 years ago), it didn't had usb or even firewire... despite the big brother deskstop's had them... That was a time when mac stuff was really expensive, but they were workhorses, they could stand almost anything, hours and hours... Nowadays their hardware is so-so, very prone to failure, sometimes big failaure, just like the generic PC world.
Firewire is common language in the mac world, it serves for almost anything that deals with connectivity, for connecting computers in target mode, for external hard drives, WERE THE DATA SPEED IS ESSENTIAL, BE IT VIDEO, AUDIO or even DATA... , for VIDEO CAPTURE, or AUDIO, because of the nature of the protocol, peer-to-peer, not crappy and bad written protocols for consumer market like the USB, were speed usually is secondary, better for connecting mouses and printers, the initially aim of the protocol...
I'm in the market for a new laptop, my PBG4/867 is dying, after 6 years of very good work,
I was looking to the macbook because it's cheaper and has everything I need, and the firewire is a main reason for me, I'm work in music and sound, so my HD's are FW as my Audio interface, USB doesn't cut here, to slow for multi-tracking, or any thing decent... It doesn't work for Video either, at least for capture, since this new HD cameras are bullshit, so many codec formats that they are useless (you have to convert from multiple formats for a working one to just start cutting video) only week-end parents use them...
If this is true next 14 October, I'll be buying a white Macbook (current generation) or even a macbook pro (if the price is right) or go linux in the generic PC world, and that hurts after all this years...
Mac's became fashion consumer products and not tools for creative work,
CS
No FW or other high-speed interface in the new MBs is just wrong. If you have used them you should know.
You're ignoring my point. Most people don't know FW 400 has an advantage over USB 2.0. Many probably wouldn't notice a difference if they actually tried out the FW 400 cable on their camera, rather than USB. FW 800 is a different story, but MacBooks have never featured FW 800 because they're built with the average computer user in mind, not the pros. Of course, Apple could always implement FW 800 in future MacBooks, just as they dropped FW 800 in the original MacBook Pros and then brought it back in the next revision.
Moreover, the choice to include a Firewire 800 port--especially over Firewire 400--is mindboggling. Firewire 800 is a failed standard that has not been adopted by anyone whereas eSata has a nearly entirely uncrippled throughput (if crippled at all?) and is 100X better than Firewire 800 in every sense (the port is even thinner making it more aesthetically economical.) Mind you this is coming from someone who owns an external Firewire 800 hard drive. When will Apple learn?
I edit video and animation professionally for a national cable network using a MacBook and a Firewire-only HDV camera. I run Final Cut Studio on it and I also connect to an external monitor when I'm in the office. I have Firewire external drives.
Was the MacBook "designed" to do any of this? It CAN, so it doesn't matter. Apple's entry-level notebook has always been generally up-to-par as far as capability (with sacrifices for speed, granted). But the fact is, while current sales may favor the (garbage) MPEG-2 video camera, millions more have Firewire-only DV cameras that will be SOL.
Consider the Prosumer market, that is a perfect target audience for the MacBook. If a prosumer needs Firewire but can't afford a full-blown MBP, what are they to do? Historically a MacBook would be up to the task, but not anymore. So our prosumer will probably either check eBay for older MacBooks or will have to get a PC notebook. I don't understand why Apple would do this, when they've always sort of reached out to that prosumer market, and tried to give consumers the opportunity to become prosumers on the existing hardware. I think Apple is being too narrow with its target audience.
The fact is, whether you choose to see it this way or not, Apple is crippling its entry-level notebook line. Despite the efforts of the Thurston Howells on this forum, the iBook/MacBook has always been capable at doing these things, and Apple arbitrarily removing Firewire, while maybe forward-thinking in the longest terms, is seriously short-sighted.
This is especially true with the economy like it is, people are not going to buy a new MPEG-2 camcorder to fit with their new MacBook. To make people jump through hoops (or just buy new ones) to just be able to use their stuff seems very Microsoft-like. What got me to Switch™ was Apple's philosophy of making the computer "just work".
But now Firewire is virtually Abandonware, and it seems Apple is perhaps too far ahead of the curve for its own good.
For example, everyone mentions camcorders and hard drives in the Firewire discussion, but what about Pro Audio interfaces? Almost all use Firewire, few use USB. And musicians are a significant part of Apple's base. Unless the price gap is signifcantly narrowed between the MB and MBP, this could be a big issue.
I know a lot of people who use laptops with an external display. It's not about being freed from the desktop. 22" looks much better than 13" doesn't it?
Optical disks aren't going to disappear. I don't doubt their importance will diminish, but definitely not disappear. DVDs are still a great way to exchange large amounts of data. Movies will primarily be played on disks for at least a few more years, if not more. Lots of data is backed up on disks. Etc...
As for USB, I find it a lot easier to just leave stuff plugged in rather than playing musical chairs with your ports, so I say the more the better! I'm sure I'm not alone.
I've been following several discussions about the FW missing port in the macbooks, and even the macbooks pro's...
I remember the phasing out of the SCSI protocol mainly for external hard drive, back in the 90's, I had the last mac laptop to have it, the G3 wallstreet (only 10 years ago), it didn't had usb or even firewire... despite the big brother deskstop's had them... That was a time when mac stuff was really expensive, but they were workhorses, they could stand almost anything, hours and hours... Nowadays their hardware is so-so, very prone to failure, sometimes big failaure, just like the generic PC world.
Firewire is common language in the mac world, it serves for almost anything that deals with connectivity, for connecting computers in target mode, for external hard drives, WERE THE DATA SPEED IS ESSENTIAL, BE IT VIDEO, AUDIO or even DATA... , for VIDEO CAPTURE, or AUDIO, because of the nature of the protocol, peer-to-peer, not crappy and bad written protocols for consumer market like the USB, were speed usually is secondary, better for connecting mouses and printers, the initially aim of the protocol...
I'm in the market for a new laptop, my PBG4/867 is dying, after 6 years of very good work,
I was looking to the macbook because it's cheaper and has everything I need, and the firewire is a main reason for me, I'm work in music and sound, so my HD's are FW as my Audio interface, USB doesn't cut here, to slow for multi-tracking, or any thing decent... It doesn't work for Video either, at least for capture, since this new HD cameras are bullshit, so many codec formats that they are useless (you have to convert from multiple formats for a working one to just start cutting video) only week-end parents use them...
If this is true next 14 October, I'll be buying a white Macbook (current generation) or even a macbook pro (if the price is right) or go linux in the generic PC world, and that hurts after all this years...
Mac's became fashion consumer products and not tools for creative work,
CS
I agree. For example, I bought a MBP because the MB had a few glaring issues - glossy display, no ExpressCard, integrated graphics. I realize now that I don't need all of the features of this $2000 laptop, but the problem is that, since I need a few of the things offered by the MBP, I am stuck. I too am considering a generic PC with linux for my next computer.
Apple is going after the larger consumer market, but is neglecting the powerusers that are the dedicated Apple buyers. This strategy may turn out well, but it will definitely leave a bad taste in many people's mouths...
fft, don't forget about Apple Refurbished - great deals on MBPs.
- Dropping Firewire means no target disk. This was useful since the hard drive can't be removed easily...
- Two USB 2.0 ports: Unacceptably anemic. Doubly so without Firewire.
- They went with MiniDVI instead of HDMI? HDMI is thin and carries the same DVI signal over it so you can still use a monitor with a dongle.
Thoughts on the mystery port get their own list:- Not HDMI, or Apple would have nixed the redundant miniDVI port
- Too thick for a SIM card: Apple would probably hide that behind the battery
- Possibly too thin for eSATA/USB combo, but wide enough for eSATA only.
I wouldn't bet on eSATA target disk: you'd need a custom ASIC to swap the internal connection between the chipset and the hard drive. Or a totally custom chipset.I think we can safely state now that that's not a mini-DVI or a micro-DVI port. Comparing them to USB, it is obvious that their shape and size do not match this new hole.
Many people here have stated this notion and I simply don't buy it. I believe it's mini-DVI and here's why.
Looking at the pictures, everyone in agreement with you, I think, is misinterpreting what they're seeing. The cutouts we're looking at are going to fit into an enclosure, just like the MacBook Air. The mini-DVI port only appears smaller than normal because the housing around it isn't in the pictures.
Why would Apple introduce an entirely new video out port that looks so similar to the current mini-DVI port, but is just that much smaller to require everyone to buy new adapters? When they released the Air, they introduced a new micro-DVI port that looks markedly different from the mini-DVI and dual link DVI ports of the MacBook and MacBook Pro, respectively.
Look at the photo below.
Notice all the space around the actual port?
So, while the article asserts the "phase out" of Firewire, that's obviously not the case, otherwise Apple would have likely killed off Firewire on all their laptops.
Well, phasing out means killing off, just more slowly. They tried it before, when they removed the FW800 port in the original MBP. There was a large outcry, so now they're trying to do it from the other direction.
I think we'll see Firewire return to MacBooks in future revisions, but in FW 800 form instead. That really depends on what Apple plans on doing with Firewire from here on out. If they release iPods and iPhones with FW 800 cables, they'd have even faster syncing with those devices. Maybe future iterations of the Air will gain FW 800, or even replace USB2 with it. Who knows?
I think you're really clinging to FW... I love FW as much as the next guy, but it should be clear that it's lost the war against USB. Even Apple knows it, and I think it's pretty clear what their future intentions for Firewire are. The new MBP will be the only Firewire laptop Apple has left, after all. There's no indication or reason that they should turn 180° on this. It's time to move on.
By the way, the only reason USB 2.0 has won is that the damn ports are compatible. Computer manufacturers are much more eagier to upgrade than to add. Space is precious, especially on notebooks. And with everything they add, people start expecting some continuity. (see Firewire on Apple). USB 2 required little commitment.
I for one am worried about being unable to use the computers in target disk mode, it's so insanely useful it's not even funny. Unless Apple provides similar functionality via USB it's one thing I'm going to miss greatly.
You won't miss it if you don't buy a new computer.
Like the difference between a landline and a cellphone, so is the signal quality by Ethernet superior to Wi-Fi. If Apple leaves Ethernet, I think I might have to leave Apple, which is one of the worst things imaginable.
Ethernet?
You won't miss it if you don't buy a new computer.
Which is what I will do. I was ready to buy a new Macbook mostly for the metal construction and the new graphics, but if Apple indeed drops FW, then I will hold off. In fact I may never again buy an Apple portable at the MB price range if it has not something more than just two USB ports for high-speed data transfer.
wobegon, if the thing I listed are so unneccessary, why are there so many people lamenting their exclusion from new models? Maybe you don't but plenty of other people do, and for many different reasons.
Because people posting here do not represent the mainstream computer user majority. Joe Sixpack doesn't get on forums and discuss this stuff. We represent the minority of those "in the know."
For example, everyone mentions camcorders and hard drives in the Firewire discussion, but what about Pro Audio interfaces? Almost all use Firewire, few use USB. And musicians are a significant part of Apple's base. Unless the price gap is signifcantly narrowed between the MB and MBP, this could be a big issue.
Pro Audio? For the average computer user?
I know a lot of people who use laptops with an external display. It's not about being freed from the desktop. 22" looks much better than 13" doesn't it?
Ok...and the new MacBook still retains its mini-DVI port. What's your point?
Optical disks aren't going to disappear. I don't doubt their importance will diminish, but definitely not disappear. DVDs are still a great way to exchange large amounts of data. Movies will primarily be played on disks for at least a few more years, if not more. Lots of data is backed up on disks. Etc...
Sorry, but discs will disappear and already are when it comes to storing and transferring data between computers. Of course...the new MacBooks (and MacBook Pros) still have their internal SuperDrives, so I don't get what you're complaining about. Most people don't watch DVDs on tiny 13" (or even 15"-17") laptop screens, they have TVs for that.
As for USB, I find it a lot easier to just leave stuff plugged in rather than playing musical chairs with your ports, so I say the more the better! I'm sure I'm not alone.
I'm sure you're not, but you're ignoring the perspective of the casual computer user, who often only plugs one thing in at a time and then unplugs it to make way for something else. I consider myself a pretty proficient computer user and I find myself doing the same thing sometimes on my three year old 15" PowerBook G4. Also, many people with laptops don't leave them on the desk with an iPod dock, digital camera, printer, and wired mouse connected to them. They take them from the bedroom, to the living room, to the patio, to the coffee shop, to a friend's house, you get the picture.
But again...the MacBook (and MacBook Pro) appears to retain the two USB 2.0 ports it's always had.
Your imagined Doomsday is just that and you also are completely leaving out the possibility for Apple to reinstate FW 800 (which the MacBook has never had) in future revisions of the MacBook, just as Apple reinstated FW 800 after initially removing it when they introduced the first 15" MacBook Pro. Exhale!
In fact I may never again buy an Apple portable at the MB price range if it has not something more than just two USB ports for high-speed data transfer.
I said the same thing about glossy screens. So now I pay twice as much for a MBP. Somehow I feel that this isn't the best way to punish their choices.