Why on earth would they drop FireWire completely from the MacBook?
Cost.
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism
I would love one, but a 12" or smaller notebook just just doesn't when you use a 16:9 screen ratio unless you r main goal is to watch video
16:10 would be more reasonable for a 12" laptop.
Quote:
Originally Posted by FuturePastNow
It's too small to be Mini-DVI, which is larger than a USB port (Google some pictures). It's also the wrong shape to be Micro-DVI (like the Macbook Air uses). It has the display symbol next to it, so it must be something new. Hopefully something that supports dual-link.
Quote:
Originally Posted by vagvoba
I think we can safely state now that that's not a mini-DVI or a micro-DVI port. Comparing them to USB, it is obvious that their shape and size do not match this new hole.
Since the icon next the cut-out clearly signals a display connector, we can assume that Apple is introducing a completely new type of port.
If Apple still sticks to some flavor of DVI, then they need to support dual-link considering how many people use 30" cinema display with MBP. Shrinking a dual-link DVI port to this tiny size seems to be a challenge.
Rather than using DVI, I would guess Apple is leaving DVI behind and switches to a more modern standard, like HDMI or Display-Port. If that's the case, they will need to provide converter dongles for legacy hardware supporting only DVI/VGA.
Moreover, since the size of these new connectors do not look like either HDMI or Display-Port, I guess they just made up their own miniaturized version of one of them.
That port is clearly not MiniDVI or MicroDVI. I hope it is DisplayPort.
In fact I may never again buy an Apple portable at the MB price range if it has not something more than just two USB ports for high-speed data transfer.
I agree. Even the new Pro looks a bit lean on I/O bandwidth, unless that mystery port is an eSATA/usb combo.
Quote:
Originally Posted by L255J
Like the difference between a landline and a cellphone, so is the signal quality by Ethernet superior to Wi-Fi. If Apple leaves Ethernet, I think I might have to leave Apple, which is one of the worst things imaginable.
Both the shots of the Macbook and the Pro have a nice big square port right next to what must be the magsafe connector in the corner. Don't fret, both of these models are going to keep their gigabit Ethernet port.
Many people here have stated this notion and I simply don't buy it. I believe it's mini-DVI and here's why.
Looking at the pictures, everyone in agreement with you, I think, is misinterpreting what they're seeing. The cutouts we're looking at are going to fit into an enclosure, just like the MacBook Air. The mini-DVI port only appears smaller than normal because the housing around it isn't in the pictures.
Why would Apple introduce an entirely new video out port that looks so similar to the current mini-DVI port, but is just that much smaller to require everyone to buy new adapters? When they released the Air, they introduced a new micro-DVI port that looks markedly different from the mini-DVI and dual link DVI ports of the MacBook and MacBook Pro, respectively.
Look at the photo below.
Notice all the space around the actual port?
You are correct about the inclosures, but there is still not enought room in there for the mini-DVI port. Looking at the pictures the port is as high as a USB, now when my adaptor is in my MacBooks port it takes up all the space around the port up to the enclosure of the casing. The port is smaller than the enclosure, but the adaptor still has to fit around the port in some way.
I think this will be a new type of adaptor, capable of new and exciting things!
I think we can safely state now that that's not a mini-DVI or a micro-DVI port. Comparing them to USB, it is obvious that their shape and size do not match this new hole.
Since the icon next the cut-out clearly signals a display connector, we can assume that Apple is introducing a completely new type of port.
If Apple still sticks to some flavor of DVI, then they need to support dual-link considering how many people use 30" cinema display with MBP. Shrinking a dual-link DVI port to this tiny size seems to be a challenge.
Rather than using DVI, I would guess Apple is leaving DVI behind and switches to a more modern standard, like HDMI or Display-Port. If that's the case, they will need to provide converter dongles for legacy hardware supporting only DVI/VGA.
Moreover, since the size of these new connectors do not look like either HDMI or Display-Port, I guess they just made up their own miniaturized version of one of them.
HDMI is just a DVI signal in a different shape connector, not a different signaling standard.
DisplayPort is a different signal, but as a result nothing supports it. Except for a few select Dell monitors. None of Apple's Cinema Display monitors have a DisplayPort connector.
You can bet Apple won't drop support for their own product in favor of that of their competitors.
Looking at the pictures the port is as high as a USB
If by port you mean the space around the actual female connector, then yes, the top of the mini-DVI port is at the same height as the top of the USB 2.0 port next to it.
If, however, you are talking about the actual female connector, then no, the top of that is lower than the top of the USB 2.0 port.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jak1502
The port is smaller than the enclosure, but the adaptor still has to fit around the port in some way.
Yes, and that space that helps secure the male connector to the female connector will be part of the enclosure that this whole frame fits into. The space around the female connector and the female connector itself are two separate things, not one whole piece (as far as I can tell).
If Apple had wanted to really reduce space, they would have gone with the Air's micro-DVI port. But they didn't. They're unlikely to introduce an entirely new video out port that looks nearly identical to their own mini-DVI port, which would not only result in people having to invest in new cables, but also create confusion for users.
It certainly ain't a dual link DVI port, which pretty much leaves only one option: mini-DVI.
UPDATE
Looks like I'm right about the DVI female connector and the space around it being two separate things. Take a look at this picture from an Apple support document:
Pro Audio is a bit of a misleading term- it generally means (to musicians) a quality external audio interface. Good ones can be had for as little as $200. I wasn't talking about the average computer user. I said musicians, who are a big part of Apple's base. Go to any electronic music show, even some rock bands- you'll see a Mac laptop on stage.
I understand the new Macs still have optical, LAN, etc. But my original post was a cynical prediction of the direction they seem to be going.
Firewire. There is still a possibility of 1394c: FW800 on CAT-5 cable (sharing the RJ45 with Ethernet).
Quote:
For the end user, the objective is to have a
single RJ-45 socket that is labeled ?network?,
and works for any kind of connection.
Since a lot of people are connected wirelessly to Internet, the Ethernet port is less required.
Still, implementing 1394c on the RJ45 port would allow users than need fast networking to have GbE and people would need faster data transfers to have FW800.
Looks as though those glass/MultiTouch display trackpads aren't coming after all, though. We'll see.
Actually the source website states that picture was Photoshopped to show what it would look like with a keyboard and trackpad installed. You can see the telltale artifacts around the trackpad edge. They only have access to the aluminum shell.
I don't mind one bit about the loss of Firewire, as I have not used a Firewire device on my Laptop for years. In fact the only Firewire device I still own is a Firewire 800 external drive that I use on my iMac for Time Machine. My HD Video Camera, iPhone, iPod and still camera ALL use USB2 and that means I can use them.
video professionals (me for one) will mostly favour pro models over standard macbooks, so wont be losing too much sleep over firewire port cutbacks in entry level macbooks - primarily because screen resolution/real estate is essential for using final cut/ pro apps. although - i do rather like to firewire a camera through the 400 port while the 800 takes care of higher speed external hdd data transfer. will chaining multiple firewire devices create issues perhaps? hmm..
looks a lot thinner - i'll be at the front of the queue! very excited>>>
I've been thinking of ways apple could potentially make a dock for the MBP... obviously they wont slap a port on the bottom like IBM does so I believe they might go for dock where you place the MBP on top and connect a big fat cable in the side.
I'm not sure if this helps, but the mini-dvi port on my 12" Powerbook is smaller (shorter vertically) than the same port on my Macbook. I don't have pics to illustrate the difference, but the adapter dongles for the 12" PB are unusable with the Macbooks due to this. Perhaps with the new form factor they are going back to the mini-dvi used on the older 12" Powerbook.
I work in an all mac environment where huge amounts of movie making goes on and the majority of the cameras are USB nowadays or use DVD's to record onto. The majority of movie making is done on iMacs.
Pro Audio is a bit of a misleading term- it generally means (to musicians) a quality external audio interface. Good ones can be had for as little as $200. I wasn't talking about the average computer user. I said musicians, who are a big part of Apple's base. Go to any electronic music show, even some rock bands- you'll see a Mac laptop on stage.
What's stopping them from getting a MacBook Pro? The MacBook Pro's 15" screen has stronger mainstream appeal than the MacBook's 13" screen. While musicians make up an important sect of Apple's base, that doesn't mean they represent the majority of those buying Apple's computers. For anyone who wants to record audio, the MacBook comes with a built-in mic (crappy, but its there for podcasting), digital audio in port (for recording real instruments, which a majority of musicians would probably want for recording their band live) and GarageBand has tons of stock instruments. Need more options and power? Get a MacBook Pro.
Quote:
Originally Posted by stonefree
I understand the new Macs still have optical, LAN, etc. But my original post was a cynical prediction of the direction they seem to be going.
Actually the source website states that picture was Photoshopped to show what it would look like with a keyboard and trackpad installed. You can see the telltale artifacts around the trackpad edge. They only have access to the aluminum shell.
Thanks. I don't speak or read Japanese, though I did think the photo looked a little funny.
So then there's still hope for a glass, MultiTouch display!
The real downside to not having firewire, is the loss of target disc mode.
I'll bet you that there are way more people using firewire for audio or video purposes than for target disc mode..
Quote:
Originally Posted by foobar
Sad to see Firewire go, but it had to be done eventually... Apple wants to do small notebooks. Can't have a lot of "legacy" ports.
ehrm?
the 13" macBook IS a small notebook. and it works very well with 2 USB ports AND a firewire port..
Quote:
Originally Posted by fft
Firewire is common language in the mac world, it serves for almost anything that deals with connectivity, for connecting computers in target mode, for external hard drives, WERE THE DATA SPEED IS ESSENTIAL, BE IT VIDEO, AUDIO or even DATA... , for VIDEO CAPTURE, or AUDIO, because of the nature of the protocol, peer-to-peer, not crappy and bad written protocols for consumer market like the USB, were speed usually is secondary, better for connecting mouses and printers, the initially aim of the protocol...
Mac's became fashion consumer products and not tools for creative work,
CS
there are certain audio editing programs that won't accept any external USB hard drive to work on; it has to be firewire, or else it won't run.
also the majority of audio interfaces run with firewire, especially if you want to daisy-chain them together.
Quote:
Originally Posted by stonefree
Pro Audio is a bit of a misleading term- it generally means (to musicians) a quality external audio interface. Good ones can be had for as little as $200. I wasn't talking about the average computer user. I said musicians, who are a big part of Apple's base. Go to any electronic music show, even some rock bands- you'll see a Mac laptop on stage.
as a live sound engineer I work with over a 1000 bands per year, and from all the artists that have computers, about 95% have apple laptops. from these laptops again about 95% has a (black) macBook.
most musicians I know own a macBook, not because it's cheaper than the pro, but because it is smaller. if this smaller version loses it's firewire port to connect audio interfaces to on top of the lack of the on-stage-camouflage black color, I'm afraid a lot of them won't know where to go: either it be bigger or PC..
and seriously: about every band that comes through the club I work has at least 3, if not more, 13' macBooks with them.
don't underestimate the numbers of semi-pro users that use the macBook, it isn't just a consumer's product.
Pro Audio is a bit of a misleading term- it generally means (to musicians) a quality external audio interface. Good ones can be had for as little as $200. I wasn't talking about the average computer user. I said musicians, who are a big part of Apple's base. Go to any electronic music show, even some rock bands- you'll see a Mac laptop on stage.
Yes, and most musicians use the MBP.
For all of you crying about the loss of FW on the MB, you now have a great reason to save a few hundred bucks and keep your current MBs or get the current generation at substantial discounts when the new ones are introduced. The low-end nVidia chip in the new MB and the extra 1066MHz FSB will not allow you to do much that the current MB cannot anyway.
Comments
Why on earth would they drop FireWire completely from the MacBook?
Cost.
I would love one, but a 12" or smaller notebook just just doesn't when you use a 16:9 screen ratio unless you r main goal is to watch video
16:10 would be more reasonable for a 12" laptop.
It's too small to be Mini-DVI, which is larger than a USB port (Google some pictures). It's also the wrong shape to be Micro-DVI (like the Macbook Air uses). It has the display symbol next to it, so it must be something new. Hopefully something that supports dual-link.
I think we can safely state now that that's not a mini-DVI or a micro-DVI port. Comparing them to USB, it is obvious that their shape and size do not match this new hole.
Since the icon next the cut-out clearly signals a display connector, we can assume that Apple is introducing a completely new type of port.
If Apple still sticks to some flavor of DVI, then they need to support dual-link considering how many people use 30" cinema display with MBP. Shrinking a dual-link DVI port to this tiny size seems to be a challenge.
Rather than using DVI, I would guess Apple is leaving DVI behind and switches to a more modern standard, like HDMI or Display-Port. If that's the case, they will need to provide converter dongles for legacy hardware supporting only DVI/VGA.
Moreover, since the size of these new connectors do not look like either HDMI or Display-Port, I guess they just made up their own miniaturized version of one of them.
That port is clearly not MiniDVI or MicroDVI. I hope it is DisplayPort.
In fact I may never again buy an Apple portable at the MB price range if it has not something more than just two USB ports for high-speed data transfer.
I agree. Even the new Pro looks a bit lean on I/O bandwidth, unless that mystery port is an eSATA/usb combo.
Like the difference between a landline and a cellphone, so is the signal quality by Ethernet superior to Wi-Fi. If Apple leaves Ethernet, I think I might have to leave Apple, which is one of the worst things imaginable.
Both the shots of the Macbook and the Pro have a nice big square port right next to what must be the magsafe connector in the corner. Don't fret, both of these models are going to keep their gigabit Ethernet port.
Many people here have stated this notion and I simply don't buy it. I believe it's mini-DVI and here's why.
Looking at the pictures, everyone in agreement with you, I think, is misinterpreting what they're seeing. The cutouts we're looking at are going to fit into an enclosure, just like the MacBook Air. The mini-DVI port only appears smaller than normal because the housing around it isn't in the pictures.
Why would Apple introduce an entirely new video out port that looks so similar to the current mini-DVI port, but is just that much smaller to require everyone to buy new adapters? When they released the Air, they introduced a new micro-DVI port that looks markedly different from the mini-DVI and dual link DVI ports of the MacBook and MacBook Pro, respectively.
Look at the photo below.
Notice all the space around the actual port?
You are correct about the inclosures, but there is still not enought room in there for the mini-DVI port. Looking at the pictures the port is as high as a USB, now when my adaptor is in my MacBooks port it takes up all the space around the port up to the enclosure of the casing. The port is smaller than the enclosure, but the adaptor still has to fit around the port in some way.
I think this will be a new type of adaptor, capable of new and exciting things!
I think we can safely state now that that's not a mini-DVI or a micro-DVI port. Comparing them to USB, it is obvious that their shape and size do not match this new hole.
Since the icon next the cut-out clearly signals a display connector, we can assume that Apple is introducing a completely new type of port.
If Apple still sticks to some flavor of DVI, then they need to support dual-link considering how many people use 30" cinema display with MBP. Shrinking a dual-link DVI port to this tiny size seems to be a challenge.
Rather than using DVI, I would guess Apple is leaving DVI behind and switches to a more modern standard, like HDMI or Display-Port. If that's the case, they will need to provide converter dongles for legacy hardware supporting only DVI/VGA.
Moreover, since the size of these new connectors do not look like either HDMI or Display-Port, I guess they just made up their own miniaturized version of one of them.
HDMI is just a DVI signal in a different shape connector, not a different signaling standard.
DisplayPort is a different signal, but as a result nothing supports it. Except for a few select Dell monitors. None of Apple's Cinema Display monitors have a DisplayPort connector.
You can bet Apple won't drop support for their own product in favor of that of their competitors.
Looking at the pictures the port is as high as a USB
If by port you mean the space around the actual female connector, then yes, the top of the mini-DVI port is at the same height as the top of the USB 2.0 port next to it.
If, however, you are talking about the actual female connector, then no, the top of that is lower than the top of the USB 2.0 port.
The port is smaller than the enclosure, but the adaptor still has to fit around the port in some way.
Yes, and that space that helps secure the male connector to the female connector will be part of the enclosure that this whole frame fits into. The space around the female connector and the female connector itself are two separate things, not one whole piece (as far as I can tell).
If Apple had wanted to really reduce space, they would have gone with the Air's micro-DVI port. But they didn't. They're unlikely to introduce an entirely new video out port that looks nearly identical to their own mini-DVI port, which would not only result in people having to invest in new cables, but also create confusion for users.
It certainly ain't a dual link DVI port, which pretty much leaves only one option: mini-DVI.
UPDATE
Looks like I'm right about the DVI female connector and the space around it being two separate things. Take a look at this picture from an Apple support document:
http://developer.apple.com/documenta...mentation.html
Pro Audio? For the average computer user?
Pro Audio is a bit of a misleading term- it generally means (to musicians) a quality external audio interface. Good ones can be had for as little as $200. I wasn't talking about the average computer user. I said musicians, who are a big part of Apple's base. Go to any electronic music show, even some rock bands- you'll see a Mac laptop on stage.
I understand the new Macs still have optical, LAN, etc. But my original post was a cynical prediction of the direction they seem to be going.
Originally posted by samh004 on MR
I did a search for mini-displayport and came up with a PDF from a Chinese company about their operation for 2008.
On page 43 they mention that from January to March this year they did the following:
Quote:
1/1/2008 ～ 3/31/2008
1.Batch production for Sony HDMI Cable 3M.
2.Development to Apple?s mouse cable and keyboard cable.
3.Development to Apple?s Mini Displayport.
4.Development to Displayport products.
5.Development to halogen-free signal cable.
As nice as they were to print this information, they don't provide a photo of the port.
PDF link
Firewire. There is still a possibility of 1394c: FW800 on CAT-5 cable (sharing the RJ45 with Ethernet).
For the end user, the objective is to have a
single RJ-45 socket that is labeled ?network?,
and works for any kind of connection.
Since a lot of people are connected wirelessly to Internet, the Ethernet port is less required.
Still, implementing 1394c on the RJ45 port would allow users than need fast networking to have GbE and people would need faster data transfers to have FW800.
New MacBook Pro
Looks as though those glass/MultiTouch display trackpads aren't coming after all, though. We'll see.
Actually the source website states that picture was Photoshopped to show what it would look like with a keyboard and trackpad installed. You can see the telltale artifacts around the trackpad edge. They only have access to the aluminum shell.
looks a lot thinner - i'll be at the front of the queue! very excited>>>
Could this be the use of that "unknown" port?
13-inch MacBook lacking Firewire and USB only:
$799
15-inch MacBook with right-side slot-loading optical drive:
$1,099
On another note, Apple really needs a black flavor of these notebooks too.
I work in an all mac environment where huge amounts of movie making goes on and the majority of the cameras are USB nowadays or use DVD's to record onto. The majority of movie making is done on iMacs.
Huge amounts of movie making?
The majority of movie making is done on iMacs?
Using footage shot on USB/DVD cameras?
Pro Audio is a bit of a misleading term- it generally means (to musicians) a quality external audio interface. Good ones can be had for as little as $200. I wasn't talking about the average computer user. I said musicians, who are a big part of Apple's base. Go to any electronic music show, even some rock bands- you'll see a Mac laptop on stage.
What's stopping them from getting a MacBook Pro? The MacBook Pro's 15" screen has stronger mainstream appeal than the MacBook's 13" screen. While musicians make up an important sect of Apple's base, that doesn't mean they represent the majority of those buying Apple's computers. For anyone who wants to record audio, the MacBook comes with a built-in mic (crappy, but its there for podcasting), digital audio in port (for recording real instruments, which a majority of musicians would probably want for recording their band live) and GarageBand has tons of stock instruments. Need more options and power? Get a MacBook Pro.
I understand the new Macs still have optical, LAN, etc. But my original post was a cynical prediction of the direction they seem to be going.
That wasn't obvious in your original post.
Actually the source website states that picture was Photoshopped to show what it would look like with a keyboard and trackpad installed. You can see the telltale artifacts around the trackpad edge. They only have access to the aluminum shell.
Thanks. I don't speak or read Japanese, though I did think the photo looked a little funny.
So then there's still hope for a glass, MultiTouch display!
The real downside to not having firewire, is the loss of target disc mode.
I'll bet you that there are way more people using firewire for audio or video purposes than for target disc mode..
Sad to see Firewire go, but it had to be done eventually... Apple wants to do small notebooks. Can't have a lot of "legacy" ports.
ehrm?
the 13" macBook IS a small notebook. and it works very well with 2 USB ports AND a firewire port..
Firewire is common language in the mac world, it serves for almost anything that deals with connectivity, for connecting computers in target mode, for external hard drives, WERE THE DATA SPEED IS ESSENTIAL, BE IT VIDEO, AUDIO or even DATA... , for VIDEO CAPTURE, or AUDIO, because of the nature of the protocol, peer-to-peer, not crappy and bad written protocols for consumer market like the USB, were speed usually is secondary, better for connecting mouses and printers, the initially aim of the protocol...
Mac's became fashion consumer products and not tools for creative work,
CS
there are certain audio editing programs that won't accept any external USB hard drive to work on; it has to be firewire, or else it won't run.
also the majority of audio interfaces run with firewire, especially if you want to daisy-chain them together.
Pro Audio is a bit of a misleading term- it generally means (to musicians) a quality external audio interface. Good ones can be had for as little as $200. I wasn't talking about the average computer user. I said musicians, who are a big part of Apple's base. Go to any electronic music show, even some rock bands- you'll see a Mac laptop on stage.
as a live sound engineer I work with over a 1000 bands per year, and from all the artists that have computers, about 95% have apple laptops. from these laptops again about 95% has a (black) macBook.
most musicians I know own a macBook, not because it's cheaper than the pro, but because it is smaller. if this smaller version loses it's firewire port to connect audio interfaces to on top of the lack of the on-stage-camouflage black color, I'm afraid a lot of them won't know where to go: either it be bigger or PC..
and seriously: about every band that comes through the club I work has at least 3, if not more, 13' macBooks with them.
don't underestimate the numbers of semi-pro users that use the macBook, it isn't just a consumer's product.
Pro Audio is a bit of a misleading term- it generally means (to musicians) a quality external audio interface. Good ones can be had for as little as $200. I wasn't talking about the average computer user. I said musicians, who are a big part of Apple's base. Go to any electronic music show, even some rock bands- you'll see a Mac laptop on stage.
Yes, and most musicians use the MBP.
For all of you crying about the loss of FW on the MB, you now have a great reason to save a few hundred bucks and keep your current MBs or get the current generation at substantial discounts when the new ones are introduced.