the missing firewire port is really annoying. it's not just because of cameras..
there are a ton of djs, electronic musicians that use a macbook because of it's size. infact i think that almost all acts that I've seen in the last 3 years had one on stage, but without firewire you can't connect most external soundcards (which you need for djing and performing).
It's really weird that I can't get a mac now. The Pro is too big for my needs and the without firewire I just can't connect my soundcard.
very weird move apple... and I've sort of already gotten over the glossy screen issue
Even though all my hard drives are USB, I still can't believe Apple removed Firewire from the Macbook. They discontinued their own technology and went Intel. Wow.
Is it really 'whining' to note that Apple kinda screwed the pooch in some ways here?
The pricepoints aren't as aggressive as ppl hoped, especially considering that we're likely entering a prolonged worldwide recession. And the no Firewire is just plain inexcusable.
That said, I love the sexy new casings, and the improved graphics performance. But it's just such a mixed bag. Like many others, I was expecting more. Not sure Steve helped himself here.
...
Ok, I'll admit that I like everyone else was disappointed when I learned that the $900 price point was really for a display. But let's all be honest... we are really mad at ourselves for letting expectations get out of control based on little more than wishful thinking. I don't know much about manufacturing and such but it seems to me that these Macbooks will retain their value better than the average "budget" PC laptop just because of their design.
Attention to detail - better graphics - buttonless glass trackpad - ambient light sensor and backlit keys - "green" design - OS X - Bootcamp... is $1300 really that bad?
Apple is an aspirational brand... if you can't afford a Macbook than figure out a way to change your life, make more money, and move on. I think people forget that the iPhone is only $200 in the US because AT&T is paying about $400 of their own money to make the price competitive. Macs cost more because they are better in many ways.
I was hoping for a lower cost on the Macbooks... and I'm sure a lot of us were. That speaks volumes about the desire for Apple products. No, let's turn our energy towards paying down our own debts, reigning in our wasteful spending, and making due with what we have. In time we will be rewarded with a Mac portable worthy of the Apple brand.
Erm, your comparing the UK price minus VAT (Which is 17.5% and not 17% but that's a tiny difference) to your US dollar price after you've added on your 7% sales tax.
Surely you need to do $1415.23-$1299 which is $116.23 dollars difference.
Sorry...but that is still not a HUGE difference. Also exchange rates change, and maybe in a month or two you'll be paying less. It may also be a higher cost of doing business in the UK. Since Apple has company stores in the UK, they may have to pay business taxes in the UK (and like most taxes in Eurpoe, it's probably more expensive). Buy it on your next trip across the pond, if that little difference irritates you.
One of the nice features is the removal HDD. Buy Macbook and swap 5400 rpm for 7200rpm. (Use the 5400 in a box for TM).
Many photogs are going be pissed about the glossy screen, I wonder now is it that bad ?
The new LED screen is interesting with iSight, Mic and Speaker, but no audio jack for external speakers that would of being easy to include on the back.
The engineering is awesome that went into this. The FW thing is dumb tough.
Attention to detail - better graphics - buttonless glass trackpad - ambient light sensor and backlit keys - "green" design - OS X - Bootcamp... is $1300 really that bad?
FYI: Backlit keys are still a "Pro" feature only. EDIT: OK, so now the store is up it appears I'm wrong, sorry. It doesn't list backlit keyboard on the Tech Specs page, but does on the Apple store when you try to purchase one.
I guess i'm irked by the UK/US price difference. Which i don't honestly think is all down to VAT or importing or doing business in the UK. In the past comparable prices have been pretty close bar the cost of the 160Gb Apple TV which is still a rip off price here in UK-land.
What bothers me more is the HD camcorder, external hard drives and Cinema displays which are now in effect redundant if you consider the new Macbook at the new state of Apple computing. As I've read on this forum this seems like a needless way of differentiating the Macbook against the Pro version and a way of forcing buyers to go for the pricer option. It's even more weird when you consider that they've keep both an original plastic macbook at cheaper price point and the 17 pro in the overall product family. For a company that prides itself on the aesthetic this seems frankenstein like lineup, much in the way my Alu Imac, has a matching Alu keyboard and then nice gloss white mighty mouse to spoil the effect.
But it doesn't have Firewire, or the option for a 7200RPM drive, so even with that extra graphics power the machine still isn't suitable for multimedia work. Not to mention they actually downgraded the processor.
I agree that they should have kept the firewire but are you kidding about downgrading the processor. It's an upgrade, it may only be 2.0 instead of 2.1 but it's got a 1066Mhz front side buss instead of a 800. That will more than makeup for the 0.1 loss in processor speed. Oh, one more thing, we don't know which processor so a 2.0 could be faster than a 2.1.
The more I look at this the more angry I get. The options for the new "MacBook Pro", which is now really just a larger version of the MacBook, include the option for a 7200 rpm hard drive. No such option is offerred for the MacBook! The form factor of the drives is certain to be the same, so this amounts to an arbitrary decision that was likely motivated by the expectation that it would encourage people to buy the "MacBook Pro" (which is now really just a larger verson of the MacBook) instead! This is absurd, and it just pisses me off. Aaaaarrrrrrrggggggghhhhhhh!
I am really, really disgusted with Apple. I rue the day that I bought Apple stock, and if there were a shareholder vote on whether to fire Jobs, I would not hesitate to fire him. This is all screwed up. It should have been about the reduction of the manufacturing cost so that MacBooks could be cost competitive with other notebook computers, and instead what they did was to substantially increase the manufacturing cost by requireing the chassis to be cut out on ultra expensive CNC machinery. It is utterly asinine. They didn't address the problem with the system fonts not being scalable, and instead of lowering their cost per unit, they increased their cost per unit! They added a nice touchpad and improved the graphics speed, but the 15" MacBook Pro now has the crappy keyboard and crappy glossy screen of the MacBook! This is all in all just about as moronic as it could possibly be! I'm stunned that Jobs presided over this disaster, and I for one advocate that he should be replaced immediately! He has quite obviously lost his mind!
Apple is an aspirational brand... if you can't afford a Macbook than figure out a way to change your life, make more money, and move on. I think people forget that the iPhone is only $200 in the US because AT&T is paying.
... No, let's turn our energy towards paying down our own debts, reigning in our wasteful spending, and making due with what we have. In time we will be rewarded with a Mac portable worthy of the Apple brand.
No offense, but your apparent elitism is a bit tiresome. \
While I personally am doing very well financially (recently came into a great deal money, and thanks to the timing, am able to invest it in the market when it's at or near a bottom), it doesn't change my view that the new MacBooks aren't a particularly great value. And the puzzling lack of FireWire worsens the equation.
Maybe I'm looking at it from more of an investor standpoint, but Apple had an opportunity to grab quite a bit of marketshare, above and beyond what they've been able to peel away from MS to date. They didn't do it. It's disappointing.\\
And the market apparently agrees, as AAPL nosedived quite a lot more than the DOW and 'DAQ did during/right after the event.
Add to my annoyance that my current notebook is about at the end of its lifespan, and that I may have to hold my nose a bit and buy one of these no-FireWire MBs (or grossly overpay for an MBP).
I guess i'm irked by the UK/US price difference. Which i don't honestly think is all down to VAT or importing or doing business in the UK. In the past comparable prices have been pretty close bar the cost of the 160Gb Apple TV which is still a rip off price here in UK-land.
Yeah, but in the past the pound was worth more dollars than it is today. The dollar-pound rate changes, you can't expect Apple to change their prices daily to always match the current exchange rate.
I agree with the comments on no Firewire... I hadn't noticed that before. The arguments kind of remind me of all the hoopla surrounding the lack of a floppy drive on the original iMac though. Is it really that big of a deal?
For me, yes. A very big deal. I use it all the time for networking, so I can do fast backups. Also what of Target Mode? I also have an older 3G iPod which uses Firewire. I'm a bit gutted with the new NVidia video, but I'm so glad I've got my Firewire.
Another thing - USB = sh*t, Firewire = great. One USB port would have done. I don't get why they're moving everything to USB. It's terrible.
Let me be the first to say, the real successor to the 12" Powerbook is FINALLY here!
Hear, hear!
I sold my 12" PB in March and got a Feb '08 MBP. Now I'm thinking hard about going for the entry level MacBook!
The display quality and non-LED-backlit-ness and the poor integrated graphics in the MB were what drove me to the higher end, and there is now much more feature parity there - LED-backlighting, check; much better graphics, check.
Not to mention very pretty new form factor, big jumps for FSB and RAM speed, and the option for a non-backlit keyboard (the new arrangement in the F-keys irks me, and I haven't ever found a -need- for the lighting) are pretty appealing. I will also welcome a return to the smaller size, especially for carrying around, and I should be able to sell the MBP for more than the stock-with-max-RAM 2.0GHz MB!
Finally, I've been enjoying using the new Apple wireless chiclet keyboard more than I do the old MBP style one; and my needs/wants have changed a bit. While I will undoubtedly be tempted back to WoW with the new expansion next month, I don't really feel the need to play any more demanding games; I tried to like Age of Empires III, which I have been running on Vista on the MBP; but it just isn't anything like as good fun as AoE II, and now they're not going to do any more updates or new games anyway *sigh*.
I agree it's a shame that there is no 7200 RPM drive option on the MB though. There is the smaller SSD, but at quite a cost! What is the speed of the SSDs like btw, as compared to 5400 or 7200?
To recap, the 12" PB's second coming ... has come.
"Revolutionary" really gets abused here at times. Apple's giving themselves a huge pat on the back for their manufacturing, but at the end of the day nobody's going to know or care what a unibody is or the "story behind every part".
What they WILL care about is the price, and the stunted specifications. Apple's starting to go too far with their form over function mantra, and it's getting a little tiring to listen to their propaganda about how awesome they are.
Comments
The Hell
In the US white MacBook now $999. In the UK, white Macbook has gone up $40 - and nothings changed
Put off buying MacBook few weeks ago cos I heard it might go down in price. HAHA
Was going to buy one, but now ill go for cheaper option. Dell
You get what you pay for.
there are a ton of djs, electronic musicians that use a macbook because of it's size. infact i think that almost all acts that I've seen in the last 3 years had one on stage, but without firewire you can't connect most external soundcards (which you need for djing and performing).
It's really weird that I can't get a mac now. The Pro is too big for my needs and the without firewire I just can't connect my soundcard.
very weird move apple... and I've sort of already gotten over the glossy screen issue
This may sound silly, but I can't see a fan anywhere on it. How does it keep cool?
By sitting in its box on the shelf at the Apple store gathering dust.
Is it really 'whining' to note that Apple kinda screwed the pooch in some ways here?
The pricepoints aren't as aggressive as ppl hoped, especially considering that we're likely entering a prolonged worldwide recession. And the no Firewire is just plain inexcusable.
That said, I love the sexy new casings, and the improved graphics performance. But it's just such a mixed bag. Like many others, I was expecting more. Not sure Steve helped himself here.
...
Ok, I'll admit that I like everyone else was disappointed when I learned that the $900 price point was really for a display. But let's all be honest... we are really mad at ourselves for letting expectations get out of control based on little more than wishful thinking. I don't know much about manufacturing and such but it seems to me that these Macbooks will retain their value better than the average "budget" PC laptop just because of their design.
Attention to detail - better graphics - buttonless glass trackpad - ambient light sensor and backlit keys - "green" design - OS X - Bootcamp... is $1300 really that bad?
Apple is an aspirational brand... if you can't afford a Macbook than figure out a way to change your life, make more money, and move on. I think people forget that the iPhone is only $200 in the US because AT&T is paying about $400 of their own money to make the price competitive. Macs cost more because they are better in many ways.
I was hoping for a lower cost on the Macbooks... and I'm sure a lot of us were. That speaks volumes about the desire for Apple products. No, let's turn our energy towards paying down our own debts, reigning in our wasteful spending, and making due with what we have. In time we will be rewarded with a Mac portable worthy of the Apple brand.
Erm, your comparing the UK price minus VAT (Which is 17.5% and not 17% but that's a tiny difference) to your US dollar price after you've added on your 7% sales tax.
Surely you need to do $1415.23-$1299 which is $116.23 dollars difference.
Sorry...but that is still not a HUGE difference. Also exchange rates change, and maybe in a month or two you'll be paying less. It may also be a higher cost of doing business in the UK. Since Apple has company stores in the UK, they may have to pay business taxes in the UK (and like most taxes in Eurpoe, it's probably more expensive). Buy it on your next trip across the pond, if that little difference irritates you.
Many photogs are going be pissed about the glossy screen, I wonder now is it that bad ?
The new LED screen is interesting with iSight, Mic and Speaker, but no audio jack for external speakers that would of being easy to include on the back.
The engineering is awesome that went into this. The FW thing is dumb tough.
Gavin
Attention to detail - better graphics - buttonless glass trackpad - ambient light sensor and backlit keys - "green" design - OS X - Bootcamp... is $1300 really that bad?
FYI: Backlit keys are still a "Pro" feature only. EDIT: OK, so now the store is up it appears I'm wrong, sorry. It doesn't list backlit keyboard on the Tech Specs page, but does on the Apple store when you try to purchase one.
Apple is an aspirational brand... if you can't afford a Macbook than figure out a way to change your life, make more money, and move on.
Or just buy something else that is cheaper.
What bothers me more is the HD camcorder, external hard drives and Cinema displays which are now in effect redundant if you consider the new Macbook at the new state of Apple computing. As I've read on this forum this seems like a needless way of differentiating the Macbook against the Pro version and a way of forcing buyers to go for the pricer option. It's even more weird when you consider that they've keep both an original plastic macbook at cheaper price point and the 17 pro in the overall product family. For a company that prides itself on the aesthetic this seems frankenstein like lineup, much in the way my Alu Imac, has a matching Alu keyboard and then nice gloss white mighty mouse to spoil the effect.
Someone please tell me it's me!!!!!
But it doesn't have Firewire, or the option for a 7200RPM drive, so even with that extra graphics power the machine still isn't suitable for multimedia work. Not to mention they actually downgraded the processor.
I agree that they should have kept the firewire but are you kidding about downgrading the processor. It's an upgrade, it may only be 2.0 instead of 2.1 but it's got a 1066Mhz front side buss instead of a 800. That will more than makeup for the 0.1 loss in processor speed. Oh, one more thing, we don't know which processor so a 2.0 could be faster than a 2.1.
I am really, really disgusted with Apple. I rue the day that I bought Apple stock, and if there were a shareholder vote on whether to fire Jobs, I would not hesitate to fire him. This is all screwed up. It should have been about the reduction of the manufacturing cost so that MacBooks could be cost competitive with other notebook computers, and instead what they did was to substantially increase the manufacturing cost by requireing the chassis to be cut out on ultra expensive CNC machinery. It is utterly asinine. They didn't address the problem with the system fonts not being scalable, and instead of lowering their cost per unit, they increased their cost per unit! They added a nice touchpad and improved the graphics speed, but the 15" MacBook Pro now has the crappy keyboard and crappy glossy screen of the MacBook! This is all in all just about as moronic as it could possibly be! I'm stunned that Jobs presided over this disaster, and I for one advocate that he should be replaced immediately! He has quite obviously lost his mind!
Apple is an aspirational brand... if you can't afford a Macbook than figure out a way to change your life, make more money, and move on. I think people forget that the iPhone is only $200 in the US because AT&T is paying.
... No, let's turn our energy towards paying down our own debts, reigning in our wasteful spending, and making due with what we have. In time we will be rewarded with a Mac portable worthy of the Apple brand.
No offense, but your apparent elitism is a bit tiresome.
While I personally am doing very well financially (recently came into a great deal money, and thanks to the timing, am able to invest it in the market when it's at or near a bottom), it doesn't change my view that the new MacBooks aren't a particularly great value. And the puzzling lack of FireWire worsens the equation.
Maybe I'm looking at it from more of an investor standpoint, but Apple had an opportunity to grab quite a bit of marketshare, above and beyond what they've been able to peel away from MS to date. They didn't do it. It's disappointing.\\
And the market apparently agrees, as AAPL nosedived quite a lot more than the DOW and 'DAQ did during/right after the event.
Add to my annoyance that my current notebook is about at the end of its lifespan, and that I may have to hold my nose a bit and buy one of these no-FireWire MBs (or grossly overpay for an MBP).
...
I guess i'm irked by the UK/US price difference. Which i don't honestly think is all down to VAT or importing or doing business in the UK. In the past comparable prices have been pretty close bar the cost of the 160Gb Apple TV which is still a rip off price here in UK-land.
Yeah, but in the past the pound was worth more dollars than it is today. The dollar-pound rate changes, you can't expect Apple to change their prices daily to always match the current exchange rate.
You can put firewire in if they have an ExpressCard slot.
http://www.sonnettech.com/product/fw...esscard34.html
I know it would be handy to have it built into the computer, but still, you aren't dead in the water.
Thank you for the information, I was about to ask whether this existed.
Opps, spoked too fast, the MacBook does not have an ExpressCard slot.
Thank you for the information, I was about to ask whether this existed.
You don't need it though because the MacBook Pro has Firewire 800.
No wonder the stock is getting hammered. I should have sold yesterday.
I agree with the comments on no Firewire... I hadn't noticed that before. The arguments kind of remind me of all the hoopla surrounding the lack of a floppy drive on the original iMac though. Is it really that big of a deal?
For me, yes. A very big deal. I use it all the time for networking, so I can do fast backups. Also what of Target Mode? I also have an older 3G iPod which uses Firewire. I'm a bit gutted with the new NVidia video, but I'm so glad I've got my Firewire.
Another thing - USB = sh*t, Firewire = great. One USB port would have done. I don't get why they're moving everything to USB. It's terrible.
Let me be the first to say, the real successor to the 12" Powerbook is FINALLY here!
Hear, hear!
I sold my 12" PB in March and got a Feb '08 MBP. Now I'm thinking hard about going for the entry level MacBook!
The display quality and non-LED-backlit-ness and the poor integrated graphics in the MB were what drove me to the higher end, and there is now much more feature parity there - LED-backlighting, check; much better graphics, check.
Not to mention very pretty new form factor, big jumps for FSB and RAM speed, and the option for a non-backlit keyboard (the new arrangement in the F-keys irks me, and I haven't ever found a -need- for the lighting) are pretty appealing. I will also welcome a return to the smaller size, especially for carrying around, and I should be able to sell the MBP for more than the stock-with-max-RAM 2.0GHz MB!
Finally, I've been enjoying using the new Apple wireless chiclet keyboard more than I do the old MBP style one; and my needs/wants have changed a bit. While I will undoubtedly be tempted back to WoW with the new expansion next month, I don't really feel the need to play any more demanding games; I tried to like Age of Empires III, which I have been running on Vista on the MBP; but it just isn't anything like as good fun as AoE II, and now they're not going to do any more updates or new games anyway *sigh*.
I agree it's a shame that there is no 7200 RPM drive option on the MB though. There is the smaller SSD, but at quite a cost! What is the speed of the SSDs like btw, as compared to 5400 or 7200?
To recap, the 12" PB's second coming ... has come.
What they WILL care about is the price, and the stunted specifications. Apple's starting to go too far with their form over function mantra, and it's getting a little tiring to listen to their propaganda about how awesome they are.