Apple releases new 15" MacBook Pro

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  • Reply 81 of 383
    If $$ was equal....would you prefer a new MB 2.4 or an old MBP 2.5 (with the 512MB video) ? Which would perform better graphics-wise if I wanted to play games? The newer NVIDIA card with less memory or the older one with more memory?



    I know a major difference to consider is screen size as well.
  • Reply 82 of 383
    I rue the day that I decided to buy Apple stock.



    The pros are faster graphics performance and the glass touchpad with integrated click. These are nice features, but they do not come close to compensating for the cons, which I?ll get to.



    From an investor?s standpoint, this is simply an unmitigated disaster. MacBooks are not competitive with PC notebooks for the simple reason that they are a lot more expensive. To improve market share, Apple needed to find ways to lower the cost of the MacBooks, not make them more expensive. I shudder to think of the number of CNC machines that will have to be devoted full-time to churning these things out, and the cost to purchase or lease those ultra-expensive machines. It boggles my mind. Instead of finding ways to reduce cost, they instead did something that inordinately increased the manufacturing cost! This does not make a whit of sense! I just can?t believe that Jobs allowed this to happen. It is apparent to me that it is not his physical health that people ought to be worried about, but rather his mental health.



    The touchpad is no doubt going to be nice, BUT WHAT SENSE DOES IT MAKE TO PUT SO MUCH EMPHASIS ON THE TOUCHPAD AND THEN USE A KEYBOARD AS LOUSY AS THIS? It does not make a whit of sense. Given a decent mouse, I can do without the touchpad altogether. I cannot do with the keyboard, and I need one that at the very least allows me to sense the individual keys with my fingertips. Every time that I have tried to use one of these keyboards that have flat, smooth upper surfaces on the keys, I have found them to be essentially dysfunctional. I cannot type on them, because I cannot sense the individual keys with my fingertips. In all likelihood, the tactile sensation will be reduced to the dull thud that occurs when the key hits bottom, the same as the keyboards that were introduced with the present iMac, which are the one of the worst keyboards ever.



    And just as AppleInsider warned, the new 15? MacBook Pro is not available with an anti-glare screen, and this simply sucks. Previously, the significant advantages of the MacBook Pro over the MacBook included the fact that with the Pro, you could get an anti-glare screen and you got a much better keyboard. Those differences are now gone. The new MacBook Pro is now really just a souped up version of the MacBook, and that sucks. The 15? MacBook Pro is gone. It remains to be seen whether they are going to similarly screw up the 17? MacBook Pro, but I?m not going to pay as much as they intend to charge for it anyway, so that is moot.



    I can order a new Lenovo notebook running Microsoft?s crappy operating system for about half of what a comparable MacBook costs, with a truly professional keyboard and an anti-glare screen. Or, I can buy a new MacBook with an operating system that is better but still fundamentally flawed, but with a crappy keyboard and a screen that reflects background light. The Apple OS is flawed because the size of system fonts is fully determined by the screen resolution and the screen size. There is no way for the user to vary the scaling for system fonts except by setting the screen resolution to something other than the screen?s native resolution.



    Instead of fixing things that needed fixing and finding ways to lower manufacturing costs, Apple did not fix anything that needed to be fixed and instead did the one thing that they could do to make certain that there would be no way, no how that there computers would be cost competitive with other notebook computers, and to add insult to injury, they diminished the quality of the screen and the quality of the keyboard. I am fuming. If a stockholder vote were taken today on whether Jobs should be fired, I would not hesitate for one second to vote to fire him.
  • Reply 83 of 383
    Thanks for addressing some of my concerns.



    After hearing this news I thought maybe i should be considering the MB instead of the MBP. However, no Firewire (which i would assume is super important for video editing) and the CPUs are up to .5 Ghz slower. How important is all that? Could I get a MB instead of MBP and have a quality comp for several years as my photography grows etc.?



    I just hate coming in on the low end of features when i want the computer to last for a long while.



    FYI: The majority of my data will be stored on an external drive.
  • Reply 84 of 383
    melgrossmelgross Posts: 33,565member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by JeffDM View Post


    That's what I thought too. Maybe this is what that shareholder conference call was about, reducing margins because of something that noone else can compete with. This isn't like the old metal cases which can be stamped, probably in one hit, with very little scrap or chips, or plastic which can be injected in seconds with only a tiny bit of scrap. It would seem that the extra machining cost is more expensive than the savings due to parts reductions.



    In addition, they must now separate out the metal from the slurry. In the Ars event coverage they showed the high pressure machining I was talking about.



    This is tough! The metal will become impregnated with the slurry on a microscopic level, and can't be reused easily. Extra steps are required for recovery. The slurry can't be easily reused either, because after use, it's not the same screen size any more (fineness), nor is it of an even screen size. More work.



    I don't understand why this would be considered to be more environmentally sound. Assuming it is.
  • Reply 85 of 383
    hattighattig Posts: 860member
    Someone on gizmodo said it best.



    Apple is now the Bang & Olufsen of computers.



    Apple needed to reduce the price of their computers in the current financial climate. Instead they have got more expensive. Faster memory and decent graphics are offset by slower CPUs. Never mind losing Firewire.



    I don't mind the slower CPUs, if it means cheaper laptops that are competitive with the laptops that other manufacturers make. Apple is only competitive in the boutique market.
  • Reply 86 of 383
    jousterjouster Posts: 460member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by rune66 View Post


    Well good for you. It's apparent that you must be half blind.



    Classy response.
  • Reply 87 of 383
    melgrossmelgross Posts: 33,565member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Messiah View Post






    I love how you think that everyone can control the environment that they work in... back in the real world...



    Despite what some of you think, matte is no answer.
  • Reply 88 of 383
    r0bwr0bw Posts: 3member
    Quote:

    Not only graphic designers-Have you ever tried crunching numbers on a glossy? Talk about headache inducing.



    Reading text on a glossy screen is an exercise in self-loathing. Precision page layout is also an excruciating task on a glossy monitor.



    Has anyone else noticed that many 3rd party photos of the Macbooks and Cinema displays feature reflections of camera crews and bystanders? Those pics say a lot.



    No matte screen option? No problem, I'll buy a Lenovo and install OS X on that. It is surprisingly easy to do and I'll save about $600 in the process.
  • Reply 89 of 383
    I guess Apple has forgotten about firewire ports. As with the first 15" MBP they have only one port. That's the reason I have not upgraded from a PB G4 to a MBP. If the earlier MBP had been updated with the 1066 FSB and 1066 DDR3 memory and graphics crads, etc. that would be a dream system. I NEED the two firewire ports. I guess I'll have to wait and see if Apple does as they did with first couple of revisions of the 15" MBP and adds the second firewire port, or look into one of the last versios that have two firwire ports, or wait to see what happens with the 17" MBP. No firewire port at all on the Macbook is stupid. USB still isn't as fast as Firwire, period. Almost all of the digital video camcorders still use firwire to connect to a computer, DVD recorder etc.
  • Reply 90 of 383
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by rgraphix View Post


    As a Graphic Designer you should be aware that glossy displays saturate colors. Not to mention that with the overpowered LED that they mentioned will totally screw any chance of having color accuracy when it comes to print design. STEVE JOBS IS RETARDED! PERIOD, EXCLAMATION!



    Looking at any image on a matte screen is looking at your image through a layer of diffusion. How can you ever say that doing so could ever give better image quality? It's like holding up a piece of wax paper over your screen!



    The assumption that matte screens give better colour rendition is flawed as well, you think that glossy screens over saturate colours, but fail to recognize that matte screens probably mute colours, therefore giving incorrect colour rendition as well.



    Colour rendition is secondary, in my experience printed material never looks as good as on the screen, matte or glossy, so using an inferior display and saying it's better or is as dull as print is counter productive. What is more important is the sharpness and clarity of the display. Since switching to a glossy display I have gone back and looked at some of my past wedding jobs and realized I have given out images to clients that were actually out of focus because on my matte screen they looked sharp. The matte coatings cause a diffusion effect that you get used to and it can actually cause the viewer to thing a soft picture is actually sharp.



    The argument that the glossy screens have over saturated colours makes it sound like all pictures are so over saturated you can't even tell what they are. The over saturation is not bad at all, in fact I don't thing glossy screens are over saturated I think matte screens are under saturated.



    I applaud apple for being bold enough to change their products to a higher quality display, instead of caving to all the whiners who think they know what they?re talking about.
  • Reply 91 of 383
    teckstudteckstud Posts: 6,476member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by kaiser_soze View Post


    I rue the day that I decided to buy Apple stock.



    The pros are faster graphics performance and the glass touchpad with integrated click. These are nice features, but they do not come close to compensating for the cons, which I?ll get to.



    From an investor?s standpoint, this is simply an unmitigated disaster. MacBooks are not competitive with PC notebooks for the simple reason that they are a lot more expensive. To improve market share, Apple needed to find ways to lower the cost of the MacBooks, not make them more expensive. I shudder to think of the number of CNC machines that will have to be devoted full-time to churning these things out, and the cost to purchase or lease those ultra-expensive machines. It boggles my mind. Instead of finding ways to reduce cost, they instead did something that inordinately increased the manufacturing cost! This does not make a whit of sense! I just can?t believe that Jobs allowed this to happen. It is apparent to me that it is not his physical health that people ought to be worried about, but rather his mental health.



    The touchpad is no doubt going to be nice, BUT WHAT SENSE DOES IT MAKE TO PUT SO MUCH EMPHASIS ON THE TOUCHPAD AND THEN USE A KEYBOARD AS LOUSY AS THIS? It does not make a whit of sense. Given a decent mouse, I can do without the touchpad altogether. I cannot do with the keyboard, and I need one that at the very least allows me to sense the individual keys with my fingertips. Every time that I have tried to use one of these keyboards that have flat, smooth upper surfaces on the keys, I have found them to be essentially dysfunctional. I cannot type on them, because I cannot sense the individual keys with my fingertips. In all likelihood, the tactile sensation will be reduced to the dull thud that occurs when the key hits bottom, the same as the keyboards that were introduced with the present iMac, which are the one of the worst keyboards ever.



    And just as AppleInsider warned, the new 15? MacBook Pro is not available with an anti-glare screen, and this simply sucks. Previously, the significant advantages of the MacBook Pro over the MacBook included the fact that with the Pro, you could get an anti-glare screen and you got a much better keyboard. Those differences are now gone. The new MacBook Pro is now really just a souped up version of the MacBook, and that sucks. The 15? MacBook Pro is gone. It remains to be seen whether they are going to similarly screw up the 17? MacBook Pro, but I?m not going to pay as much as they intend to charge for it anyway, so that is moot.



    I can order a new Lenovo notebook running Microsoft?s crappy operating system for about half of what a comparable MacBook costs, with a truly professional keyboard and an anti-glare screen. Or, I can buy a new MacBook with an operating system that is better but still fundamentally flawed, but with a crappy keyboard and a screen that reflects background light. The Apple OS is flawed because the size of system fonts is fully determined by the screen resolution and the screen size. There is no way for the user to vary the scaling for system fonts except by setting the screen resolution to something other than the screen?s native resolution.



    Instead of fixing things that needed fixing and finding ways to lower manufacturing costs, Apple did not fix anything that needed to be fixed and instead did the one thing that they could do to make certain that there would be no way, no how that there computers would be cost competitive with other notebook computers, and to add insult to injury, they diminished the quality of the screen and the quality of the keyboard. I am fuming. If a stockholder vote were taken today on whether Jobs should be fired, I would not hesitate for one second to vote to fire him.



    Methinks the kool-aid formula has been tampered with.
  • Reply 92 of 383
    melgrossmelgross Posts: 33,565member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by rune66 View Post


    Well good for you. It's apparent that you must be half blind.



    Or the other way around.
  • Reply 93 of 383
    I guess Apple has forgotten about firewire ports. As with the first 15" MBP they have only one port. That's the reason I have not upgraded from a PB G4 to a MBP. If the earlier MBP had been updated with the 1066 FSB and 1066 DDR3 memory and graphics crads, etc. that would be a dream system. I NEED the two firewire ports. I guess I'll have to wait and see if Apple does as they did with first couple of revisions of the 15" MBP and adds the second firewire port, or look into one of the last versios that have two firwire ports, or wait to see what happens with the 17" MBP. No firewire port at all on the Macbook is stupid. USB still isn't as fast as Firwire, period. Almost all of the digital video camcorders still use firwire to connect to a computer, DVD recorder etc.
  • Reply 94 of 383
    melgrossmelgross Posts: 33,565member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Adam Venier View Post


    You can use FW400 with the FW800 port.



    You got that post messed up.



    I didn't say that.
  • Reply 95 of 383
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Hattig View Post


    Well I've just seen the pricing in the UK, and I'm afraid that a MacBook to replace my iBook is now totally off the todo list.



    The new MacBooks are £949 and £1149. That's $1,654 and £2,003. Sure, take off tax ... $1408 and $1705.



    That's silly..



    One, given the 17.5% VAT in the UK, that's more like $1360 and $1650. Second, distribution and retailing costs are much higher in the UK compared to the US, given the 'social costs' that businesses must bear. Three, there's exchange rate uncertainty that needs to be factored in: if the dollar continues to appreciate (as it has in the past few months), Apple's margins will fall, and it makes sense to protect against that.
  • Reply 96 of 383
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by kaiser_soze View Post


    I rue the day that I decided to buy Apple stock.



    {long rant}



    I've looked through some of your recent posts, and you're an amazingly angry guy. Don't take Apple's business decisions so personally. Feel free to vote with your dollars if you do not like it.
  • Reply 97 of 383
    mstonemstone Posts: 11,510member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by rgraphix View Post


    As a Graphic Designer you should be aware that glossy displays saturate colors. Not to mention that with the overpowered LED that they mentioned will totally screw any chance of having color accuracy when it comes to print design.





    Actually, your only chance of color accuracy for print is to use a prepress quality ISP display like Eizo - not even the 30 inch Cinema Display is adequate, so it certainly doesn't given reason that a matte or a glossy notebook display would be used for such purposes.
  • Reply 98 of 383
    hattighattig Posts: 860member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by anantksundaram View Post


    That's silly..



    One, given the 17.5% VAT in the UK, that's more like $1360 and $1650. Second, distribution and retailing costs are much higher in the UK compared to the US, given the 'social costs' that businesses must bear. Three, there's exchange rate uncertainty that needs to be factored in: if the dollar continues to appreciate (as it has in the past few months), Apple's margins will fall, and it makes sense to protect against that.



    1. I took tax into account already, can't you read?



    2. This pretty much prices Apple out of the UK. Well done Apple!
  • Reply 99 of 383
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by kaiser_soze View Post


    I rue the day that I decided to buy Apple stock.



    The pros are faster graphics performance and the glass touchpad with integrated click. These are nice features, but they do not come close to compensating for the cons, which I?ll get to.



    From an investor?s standpoint, this is simply an unmitigated disaster. MacBooks are not competitive with PC notebooks for the simple reason that they are a lot more expensive. To improve market share, Apple needed to find ways to lower the cost of the MacBooks, not make them more expensive. I shudder to think of the number of CNC machines that will have to be devoted full-time to churning these things out, and the cost to purchase or lease those ultra-expensive machines. It boggles my mind. Instead of finding ways to reduce cost, they instead did something that inordinately increased the manufacturing cost! This does not make a whit of sense! I just can?t believe that Jobs allowed this to happen. It is apparent to me that it is not his physical health that people ought to be worried about, but rather his mental health.



    The touchpad is no doubt going to be nice, BUT WHAT SENSE DOES IT MAKE TO PUT SO MUCH EMPHASIS ON THE TOUCHPAD AND THEN USE A KEYBOARD AS LOUSY AS THIS? It does not make a whit of sense. Given a decent mouse, I can do without the touchpad altogether. I cannot do with the keyboard, and I need one that at the very least allows me to sense the individual keys with my fingertips. Every time that I have tried to use one of these keyboards that have flat, smooth upper surfaces on the keys, I have found them to be essentially dysfunctional. I cannot type on them, because I cannot sense the individual keys with my fingertips. In all likelihood, the tactile sensation will be reduced to the dull thud that occurs when the key hits bottom, the same as the keyboards that were introduced with the present iMac, which are the one of the worst keyboards ever.



    And just as AppleInsider warned, the new 15? MacBook Pro is not available with an anti-glare screen, and this simply sucks. Previously, the significant advantages of the MacBook Pro over the MacBook included the fact that with the Pro, you could get an anti-glare screen and you got a much better keyboard. Those differences are now gone. The new MacBook Pro is now really just a souped up version of the MacBook, and that sucks. The 15? MacBook Pro is gone. It remains to be seen whether they are going to similarly screw up the 17? MacBook Pro, but I?m not going to pay as much as they intend to charge for it anyway, so that is moot.



    I can order a new Lenovo notebook running Microsoft?s crappy operating system for about half of what a comparable MacBook costs, with a truly professional keyboard and an anti-glare screen. Or, I can buy a new MacBook with an operating system that is better but still fundamentally flawed, but with a crappy keyboard and a screen that reflects background light. The Apple OS is flawed because the size of system fonts is fully determined by the screen resolution and the screen size. There is no way for the user to vary the scaling for system fonts except by setting the screen resolution to something other than the screen?s native resolution.



    Instead of fixing things that needed fixing and finding ways to lower manufacturing costs, Apple did not fix anything that needed to be fixed and instead did the one thing that they could do to make certain that there would be no way, no how that there computers would be cost competitive with other notebook computers, and to add insult to injury, they diminished the quality of the screen and the quality of the keyboard. I am fuming. If a stockholder vote were taken today on whether Jobs should be fired, I would not hesitate for one second to vote to fire him.



    Being the professional that you are, would you not agree that the new Macbooks are better than the eight year old Sony tower PC, that you are using now?
  • Reply 100 of 383
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by briggs View Post


    If $$ was equal....would you prefer a new MB 2.4 or an old MBP 2.5 (with the 512MB video) ? Which would perform better graphics-wise if I wanted to play games? The newer NVIDIA card with less memory or the older one with more memory?



    I know a major difference to consider is screen size as well.



    If your looking to play future/current high end games, the MBP is really the only way to go. The new NVIDIA integrated card will do wonders for current average games. Gizmodo tried out Spore on it and they said it ran decently enough. As for screen size, you really can't beat the 15". It is great for opening up two separate documents, or webpages, or pictures, all side by side. Not having to flip between applications is a huge benefit.



    Ultimately, you should decide yourself. Personally I'm going to sell my current 15" 2.5 MBP. I bought it in March, so it's still quite new, and now I'm looking at getting a new MBP.



    If anyone's interested in purchasing a new MBP...
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